(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

26 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 11122 posts in this topic. You are on page 62 of 223.
#3052 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

The "You" is royal, meaning "one" as in DP. Sorry.

The royal "we", you know, the editorial...

#3053 2 years ago
Quoted from Nibbles:

The manufacturer of the games I believe

It's my understanding that ARA manufactures the custom electronics for the games, maybe just the main boards or some subset. DP subcontracts components to different (appropriate) contract manufacturers where they need to.

There is some kind of dispute, and it's ultimately led to a slipping in real-time while DP goes and finds another CM... which I should add is the only possible choice.

#3054 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

I'm confusing A. F. Not you're fault.
The Dude Abides.

Hardly, your posts to me are the probably most clear & constructive ive seen here in a long time

#3055 2 years ago

If this is just that DP owes ARA x amount of money....tell everyone. Maybe most people will kick in a payment or Pay In Full to get them the funds.
If ARA is trying to pull a deal and up the price by 1,000 because they have DP over a barrel.....not good!

27
#3056 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Can someone post the ARA email?

letter (resized).jpg

#3057 2 years ago

Well!....there ya have it!

#3058 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Maybe most people will kick in a payment or Pay In Full to get them the funds.

Maybe most people will start asking for refunds.

#3059 2 years ago

So from ARA's point of view, based on that email, this points to DP as simply not having sufficient funds to pay.

But DP is saying ARA want's 1000 more euro per machine.

ARA is calling DP liars by saying that there was never a problem with parts for production of the pins.

#3060 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

So from ARA's point of view, based on that email, this points to DP as simply not having sufficient funds to pay.
But DP is saying ARA want's 1000 more euro per machine.
ARA is calling DP liars by saying that there was never a problem with parts for production of the pins.

Exactly....but this might be easier to fix then if it's just money. We need to find out how much ARA is owed.

-1
#3061 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Exactly....but this might be easier to fix then if it's just money. We need to find out how much ARA is owed.

Kickstarter?

#3062 2 years ago

It's certainly possible the payments ARA is saying they are owed includes the 1000 euro price increase, and maybe DP stopped paying out of protest. That would be the most kind way to think about it.

But unfortunately DP has been exposed on the "board problems" so you don't know what to think of this.

#3063 2 years ago

As above,
Not all 300 have been made, so, find out how much ARA is owed for the ones made, and then find another manufacturer for the rest.

Has ARA made 100 and then said you owe us 100K more due to unforeseen circumstances? Or have they said a price increase for the rest of the machines to which DP has said no and honour the contract!?

#3064 2 years ago

Ha ha Frolic, thinking alike there

#3065 2 years ago

not good at all. Who knows what the contract is. There very well could be escalators in the contract and that's what ARA is trying to recoup. Without the contract it's, he said she said. What we do know is someone is lying about the boards being the cause of the stoppage. As I said, not good at all.

#3066 2 years ago

DP has admitted to me that board issue was to "buy time" which is not good.

I'm sure Jaap & Barry are up to their eyes in emails now requesting refunds.

We need complete transparency on this so we the buyers can decide.

I would pay more to have my game, £700 more is better than loosing £6000!

#3067 2 years ago

There's never a dull moment in this hobby.

Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives....

maxresdefault (resized).jpg

10
#3068 2 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I wonder if Cointaker is in a position to give refunds to everyone who has a deposit with them? In other words, is Cointaker holding on to those deposits, or were they forwarded to DP?

I emailed Tommy at Nitro and he is sending my deposit back. I know I could get it back any time but I honestly don't want the game anymore. As awesome as it looks, I don't want to be dealing with this poor communication during the inevitable issues after getting my game. I also don't want to have a game with so few examples and from a defunct company.

#3069 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

DP has admitted to me that board issue was to "buy time" which is not good.

So they lied about that but now we're supposed to believe that ARA is extorting them for a grand more per machine? Bullshit. For all we know, this $1,000 more is to "buy more time" to try and secure additional capital.

#3070 2 years ago

I really enjoyed playing a few games of TBL at ReplayFX last year. I had concerns before playing it; it's my favorite movie of all time and I was afraid that with the licensing snafus it would be a shallow replica of The Dude & Co., but the proof was in the playing and the playing was awesome!

All this rambling means: I really hope these games get made. I hope yawl don't have to wait too long. I'm sad that only 300 will be made, but I'm sure AYCE Gogi will get one.

#3071 2 years ago

Pinball manufacturing is a black hole as far as cash needed. Didn't JJP get a $9 million cash injection a while back? The sums are incredible really.

#3072 2 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Pinball manufacturing is a black hole as far as cash needed.

Pinball collecting is a black hole too!

#3073 2 years ago

Man...pinball equals drama..

#3074 2 years ago

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#3075 2 years ago
Quoted from Skins:

So they lied about that but now we're supposed to believe that ARA is extorting them for a grand more per machine? Bullshit. For all we know, this $1,000 more is to "buy more time" to try and secure additional capital.

Sadly, I wonder why nothing has happened since ARA quit producing in October.

-5
#3076 2 years ago

OK, so Dutch is tits up.

Kinda reminds me of the early 90s talk show wars when they started dropping out.

If Dutch is Chevy Chase, who is Arsenio?

#3077 2 years ago

Sad to see this happen. I was originally in for a TBL, but was booted by Phil 2 years ago. As much as I liked the game, I didn't like the shenanigans and half-truths surrounding that ordeal, so I stayed out. Now there's more shenanigans. Hoping they can be worked out and folks get their games.

So is preorder model dead yet? Only company I'd trust with my money these days is Spooky.

19
#3078 2 years ago

Construction (4) (resized).jpg

#3079 2 years ago

How can anyone justify a prepay after the JJP lesson?

#3080 2 years ago

As ARA reportedly wants another $1k per board set based on their understanding and DP has shipped 30(?) games, ARA would want immediate payment of the 30k. Possibly a detail in their contract was triggered that requires this payment up front before delivery of each machine.

My solution: DP pays ARA the 30k owed, and alerts its buyers that their final costs have increased $1k. If they want a refund, full amount will be returned, as new orders come in. Chaulk it up to bad management, and save yourself headaches of finding another CM just pay the ransom.

IMG_0016 (resized).JPG

24
#3081 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

So is preorder model dead yet? Only company I'd trust with my money these days is Spooky.

Spooky Pinball was smart and took baby steps and learned as they went. DP dove into the deep end not knowing how deep it was.

#3082 2 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

with the Dutch, I have been fed many lies


Boo!
Really disappointing post from you Bill...i would like to say something about Canadians now,but John Candy rocks and that is all i know about canada.
But i'll get back to you!

15
#3083 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Boo!
Really disappointing post from you Bill...i would like to say something about Canadians now,but John Candy rocks and that is all i know about canada.
But i'll get back to you!

Canadians are all bastards.. they manufacture gobs of ridiculously cold air over their central provinces and Hudson Bay, then export it to the U.S. whether we want it or not. HUGE trade imbalance with those clowns! After Trump's done with his Mexican wall, he'll build a wall of FANS on the northern border! Blow that shit to Siberia where it belongs...

#3084 2 years ago

The Dutch do know how to fix things.

dana-fradon-the-little-dutch-boy-with-his-finger-in-the-dike-he-holds-out-his-cap-to-new-yorker-cartoon (resized).jpg

#3085 2 years ago

Ah!
There you go!
And we will fix the dude's problem too...we Dutch rock!
We are solid people...tbl will get there..

#3086 2 years ago

I gotta say, in all seriousness, I LOVE the Dutch. Literally every Dutch person I know is tall, good looking, smart, and has a good sense of humor. I've never done any business with them, but I enjoy their company and their country!

I'll be there for a week in June, as usual, just soaking in the Dutchness. And the Kush.

#3087 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Boo!
Really disappointing post from you Bill...i would like to say something about Canadians now,but John Candy rocks and that is all i know about canada.
But i'll get back to you!

Having lived and worked in Holland, I can say that Bill is, in my opinion, full of shit.

#3088 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I gotta say, in all seriousness, I LOVE the Dutch.

I'm glad to hear that Levi because I'm part Dutch myself. Every body should have some Dutch in them. Who's first?

#3089 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm glad to hear that Levi because I'm part Dutch myself. Every body should have some Dutch in them. Who's first?

Seems us pre order people all got a little Dutch in us too. Didn't even get a kiss first!!

#3090 2 years ago

Man, very sorry to hear about this. I sincerely hope that this can be resolved.

#3091 2 years ago

They "stopped production in October of 2016". WTF, just now finding that one out.

That blows, typical Jpop BS.

ARA wouldn't hold inventory like that if they were getting paid. DP just keeps lying when they actually speak.

Billy, you need to get over there and get shit straightened out.

#3092 2 years ago

Someone call Keith.

#3093 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

OK, so Dutch is tits up.

If that were the case ARA would have filed insolvency (not sure about the correct term in the US) for them, DP would have gone tits up, ARA would have sold the machines they already made and case closed.
This has not happened (yet), so they are obviously expecting DP to be able to pay.

The additional lack of mentioning any legal proceedings against DP makes it very likely that there is a dispute on the debts, if it is about the price or the quality we do not know.

#3094 2 years ago

It's sounding more and more like this whole project is getting the rug pulled out from underneath it.

#3095 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Just a shame that there appears to be some big problems, and a shame that radio silence was used as a tactic to manage it.

Well... if they are in a legal dispute between the two parties involved.. do you really think giving a play by play to the internet is the right course.. for either side?

DP should have been forthcoming when the problem stopped shipments, to say they are held up by disputes with the vendor... and give updates based on ETAs.. but we all know that would have gone poorly as well. Cover stories suck... but airing laundry to 3rd parties isn't any better.

#3096 2 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Sadly, I wonder why nothing has happened since ARA quit producing in October.

They didn't. Though it was mid afternoon on a Friday, there were still 2-3 ladies working on assembly when we went on the factory tour in early November. Production definitely hadn't stopped at that stage.

So that part of the letter is untrue.

It would also be extraordinary if that dispute was active with the stipulated reasons and they'd allowed DP to tour round their facility with a group of 30+ customers and interested parties.

I don't buy it.

#3097 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

As ARA reportedly wants another $1k per board set based on their understanding and DP has shipped 30(?) games, ARA would want immediate payment of the 30k. Possibly a detail in their contract was triggered that requires this payment up front before delivery of each machine.
My solution: DP pays ARA the 30k owed, and alerts its buyers that their final costs have increased $1k. If they want a refund, full amount will be returned, as new orders come in. Chaulk it up to bad management, and save yourself headaches of finding another CM just pay the ransom.

There's no way they could do that. It sets a very dangerous precedent.

Also, if that's the case, €1k per boardset INCREASE sounds very difficult to justify.

We have extremely imperfect information, and two contradictory stories, neither of which adds up really.

Impossible to reach a general conclusion.

#3098 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

They didn't. Though it was mid afternoon on a Friday, there were still 2-3 ladies working on assembly when we went on the factory tour in early November. Production definitely hadn't stopped at that stage.

They were finishing off the pins they will sell off if they don't get paid

11
#3099 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

For the production phase, I would imagine they pay on completion (shipping). Probably hence ARA, if reported correctly, feel they have room to negotiate a higher fee and the leverage to do so with a bunch of completed games.

I can't see how any formal, professional, dutch company thinks they could 'negotiate a higher fee' on items they already have a contract to deliver. The price was agreed to. I'd speculate it is more likely something like change orders, or other add-ons that ARA feels they are owed that DP doesn't. Imagine something like

ARA: To make this happen, we need to make these changes..
DP: Its your build, you do what you need to do to deliver on the project
ARA: Here is an invoice for the necessary things we did
DP: We aren't paying that.. you agreed to build the game for X, that cost is your responsibility...
ARA: These items were not part of the original deal.. you owe us for it, pay the invoice
DP: No (or probably just silence...)
ARA: Fine, you won't pay, we won't release the goods or other work until you do

And it goes from there. They could be disagreements over what should be billed items or not.. changes made.. what the original SoW and costs covered..

Lots of possibilities for disagreements on scope/inclusion without one side simply trying to blackmail the other because the games are ready.

Given the history in the past where Silence was DP's way of addressing things they didn't like.. I can see how things could escalate to this roadblock.

19
#3100 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I was told I need to come see what is happening in TBL thread. I am like 30 pages behind.
Can I get cliff notes form someone please?

Donny, you're out of your element!

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