I'm still getting resets on my machine, didn't have any issue like you mentioned that I can remember but I've had my game shut down and restart at least 5 times. I can't seem to link this to the P-Roc issue(I never had this issue prior to update). So my plan was to go back to old code and see if it is still happening, just haven't had opportunity to yet.

Tsskinne didn't the one at MSA have this same issue ?

I've not experienced that on my game. After power cycling, did you play a game with .48 still on or just go back to .45? It may be worth trying it again with .48 to see if you can duplicate the error.

What and how do you start the new car modes. Mine is not showing much on the car modes besides hit the car for 100k.

Hit handicap targets x4 then scoop on upper pf

Sounds like the old code? After you install it, you still have to select the software version to run. Maybe you missed the 2nd step?

Come on Dutch Pinball....!! How 'bout a Friday NSNL..!!??? Even a BSNL (bull shit! news letter). At this point, anything is welcome.

cef8ef30fed4f7a3221b4333f7ef66b3 (resized).jpg

Bumping for hope, even though there's much more action going on in the Austin Powers Owner's Club thread.

In the meantime, can anyone with the new code update post video of some of the new car mode features?

Anyone know how to get an Extra Ball? Seems like it's only via Mystery right now? I posted in DP forums but think that maybe completing two waves of Nihilist showdown could be a good one to earn an EB?

Thanks for the update...I called Melissa a week ago and never recieved a call back..

Super helpful Gutter, I can certainly live with sometime in 2017. Glad I was able to snag a preorder a couple months ago.

Well that blows that is only the 300. Was hoping it was gonna be make them until the license runs up.

It ran up.

terrible communication....no excuse at this point.

Yes. All pinball machines are pretty easy to update. You just need a USB flash memory stick.

It's because you have Cheech as your profile pic.

I think I got an official update last night. Cliff notes..... 1. Not talking is bad (at least in the pinball community). 2. Shits broke (no idea how long it will take to fix). 3. Jaap will be in Texas.

At least they reached out. Ugh.

They need to hire Gutterballs for a PR adviser.

Was really hoping for at least some tid bit to get the crowd excited again. Like a quick clip of new software, or even some updated thoughts if where things are going with gameplay after it's been out for awhile.

It's not like they haven't had time to put something like that together.

Oh well, like I said, at least it was an email. Baby steps.

NSN from DP:

We sincerely want to apologize for the radio silence. We understand that in the pinball world, not communicating causes speculation. The reason is that we have no news to share. There is an issue with our partner ARA which we are trying to resolve. As soon as we have news we will let you know but this might take a few more weeks.

If you want to meet Dutch Pinball in person, please come to the Texas Pinball Festival. Jaap will be there (probably most of the time at the Cointaker booth) and also will give a presentation on Saturday.

Again, our sincere apologies, we hope to come with news soon.
Kind regards,
Barry & Jaap

Does this mean that if you have your order through Nitro you will get yours before anyone in the cointaker list? Assuming 60+\- have shipped and cointaker has #200-300, that must mean Nitro has #100-199 (obviously not factoring in any other European or Asian alottments...).

I was pleased to see that I had finally received an update email from DP. And then I read it. No change on the TBL front - wait for the next show (TPF this time) to hopefully hear some new info.

SIGH

This seems extremely problematic. This isn't "there's board issues that ARA is trying to resolve", this could be interpreted so many ways including "ARA is scheduled to build some space parts for NASA and their facility is not available to us for the next year".

I don't know, I made that part up. Point is, they went from saying nothing, to saying almost nothing, they are extremely late/slow, people have money tied up, and there are 2 other lawsuits going on currently for failed pinball projects.

This doesn't seem good, and certainly something doesn't add up. Which sucks for everyone.

The direct DP preorders go through 190 or so, so not sure where his allotment comes from other than maybe sublet from cointaker or preorder drop outs.

Agreed. They made a concerted effort to avoid using the boards as the reasoning for the delay. It may be the language barrier but an email that should have helped clarify things only resulted in clouding it further. It is a head scratcher for sure.

See JimB's post two up.. that has a lot more info than the other one.

well that blows.

Barry how about a code update? How about responding to emails?

Sorry but this has turned into a shit show.

Games all shipped in 2017 at this point is laughable

Sorry, just saw this, but yes similar to what MSA had happen. All I know is after some communication back and forth with DP it was determined that TBL at MSA had the board issues that some others have experienced. There was some communication, then DP said they would have the board in the mail that week.....that was a month...maybe two months ago now at this point. MSA luckily has an awesome lineup of other titles and seems to be taking everything in stride, as a customer of the location I'd love to have it to play, and if it was me I would be very upset and frustrated to drop that kind of money on a game and have this happen. Hopefully DP gets their stuff together ASAP.

New manufacturer seems like starting over. The boards and stuff were made in house at ARA, obviously those won't be going to the new place.

This is a nightmare. I feel for the DP guys, obviously they had an agreement in place.

They could do like Dish and Direct TV and pass on the cost to their customers which typically happens but in this case no way. They had an agreement for a fixed price. It is what it is.

I would rather pay extra for my game than start over. All new problems now to troubleshoot. F*ck.

Hopefully they won't contract with Stern to produce the rest of the machines.

Thanks. There was an overlap when I posted and he did.

Well I applaud their candor. It does validate that the few who voiced doubt that the board was the issue for things screeching to a halt were right. Again I appreciate their candor but I have a feeling there is still more to the story. Surely ARA wouldn't feel validated for a cost increase without enumerating to Dutch how their actions (revisions, inefficiencies, bad design) cost them time and money justifying the increase. There goes that mantra of running lean, I guess.

Aren't Nitro's machines shipped to Cointaker and then shipped to Canada by Cointaker? Could be that Nitro's machines are included in 200 to 300.

All I do know is that I'm probably the last preorder at #190 aka, "The Last of the Achievers."

PCBs and pick and place manufacturing files are absolutely transferable to other PCB manufacturers, so the thing is retooling costs but that's a single expense spread across the rest of the games (so, way less than the 1 k extra per game ARA wants). Assume for DP exploring leaving ARA it would have to make financial sense.

Def sucks beyond belief though.. man.. wtf is up with this week and wild pinball news :/

I suspect you're right. ARA certainly will have their side to this.

It almost doesn't matter at this point.

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Soooooo, ARA won't release the completed games because they're owed money. There may be possible legal procedures. DP needs to find another manufacturer in order to complete the games.

Does anyone see games shipping in 2017?

Given the latest news I wonder what these 21 units are. Would these be units that one of the updates said had to be unboxed to fix the board problem? I am #61 and I have a Big Lebowski pinball sized empty space in my house at the moment.

As one of the few who has received their machine, I'm concerned for different reasons. I've avoided posting about this until now, but finding this information out via Pinside has prompted me to share.

My machine was delivered at the end of May - just over eight months ago. I still don't have a working bowling alley. It worked on the very first game I played after taking delivery, but not once since. I've been sent several replacement optos in that time and none have worked. I've replaced fuses, which didn't help. I've helped to troubleshoot the issue where possible but so far no progress on a resolution. A pinball technician that I use has recommended that I request DP to send out a full new bowling alley, but I've continuously given DP the benefit of the doubt and assumed that they would help rectify the issue.

To be fair to Barry and DP there have been times where the delay in moving forwards has been my fault, as I haven't always been able to install and test the new parts immediately after receiving them. However, Barry said to me over a month ago he'd speak to the team at the factory and work out a new resolution, and despite requesting an update I've heard nothing - and I now find out via Pinside that they're going to have to change manufacturers and may be entering legal proceedings against the company who manufactured my game. This is far from reassuring. If the relationship between DP and ARA has broken down to this extent, what does this mean for us with ARA manufactured games if elements of the design change or are refined by the new manufacturer?

I've tried to be positive, but even with a non-working game at home the communication and assistance from DP has been lacking. People complain about Stern, but I've never had issues of this nature with the NIB Sterns I've bought over the years. In fact, Stern have sent me parts without charge for machines I've bought from other owners. I have one of the few TBL that have shipped, and in eight months they haven't been able to help me get the major toy working. I hardly play the game at this point out of sheer frustration.

I hope that DP manage to get things moving again soon for the sake of all of those still waiting for their games, but I'm now even more concerned about the future of the machine I have at home.

wonder if they should take a survey? would people prefer paying another $1k to 'grease the wheels' and maybe in exchange DP commits to TBL being only a run of 300 units and no more / they won't pursue another run regardless of demand?

Its way more complicated when the two parties are not in agreement tho

- How much inventory is locked up at ARA?
- How much process inventory and assets are ARA created and going to be withheld claiming they are theirs?
- How much assembly jigs/tooling has been sourced and setup that ARA would withheld?
- How much of the engineering redesign will ARA claim they have ownership of and withhold from DP?

All of that would have to be sorted in court, and more than likely ARA is in the position to play hardball since they have probably have sole physical possession of most of everything. For things that might be done under contract (like designs), they could say they are withholding due to lack of payment... bogging the whole thing down until the courts sort it out.

The writing was on the wall when they were uncertain about builds beyond their initial contract block. It was clear from the first tour that ARA's ideas for production were woefully inadequate.. the first sign that their estimates would be of concern. Then they reworked their factory to take on much more space, etc so you know that would push up their costs. Then the uncertainty beyond the initial agreement all but confirmed that the initial deal wasn't to ARA's liking.. and now we have disagreements leading to a stand-off.

It's so sad to hear the disagreements ate all the way back into the current production run.. which would infer the gaps are pretty large. Impossible to say from the outside who is in the right... but these kinds of situations are usually pretty fatal to the partnership if they get to court. That means starting over with a new partner... and there are no garuntees that a new partner would be able to work at the old agreed price points either. Making it very expensive for DP to fight and even to 'win'

Hunker down.. if the ARA situation isn't resolved, its probably a long long road ahead.

Thanks for sharing your story....I'm sure you're very frustrated. Look on the bright side, you're in better position that 85% of the rest of us. Your game may end up being very collectible!!!!

Are you suggesting that all TBL owners potentially contribute?

Personally, I'd rather DP pursue other options before asking for more $ for a game that is currently underdeveloped as well as way behind schedule.

#59

not suggesting, just wondering what the climate is out there. i have my game, but I'd imagine if $1k got me my game within 2 months vs unknown / court involvement period of time.. I might consider it. Realizing now i prob should just keep my mouth shut cause i am part of the lucky few and i'm sure nobody wants /not my place to hear anything from me

It's not like the existing owners are having zero issues to make us want to pay $1K more to get it faster. Look at the reports. Might be better to get another company.

It's not surprising that this has occurred, when it dragged on.

I rather got the impression when we visited that the contract negotiation to extend beyond 300 with ARA could be an impasse. It seems to have come much sooner.

It's very unfortunate that the first 300 couldn't be finished before a potential change for further runs and game #2.

Obviously we're only hearing DP's side of the story., but hopefully the two parties can settle without going to court, as I'd imagine it will be a considerable time sink.

What is ARA for those that have not followed the whole thing in detail?