Destin, FL
Quoted from Roostking:Refundable I assume.
It is refundable
(Topic ID: 115360)
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The Big Lebowski
Dutch Pinball, 2016
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Quoted from fosaisu:I don't know whether DP is meeting their promised 3 to 1 ratio. But your calculations don't align at all with what DP has actually promised over the past 12 months. DP never said that ratio would apply to the ~50 previously produced games that were “resold” before the new production started -- quite the opposite, nothing from the sale of those games went to the EAs, which made the sale controversial at the time. And before new production started up, DP publicly announced that it would not be making any EA games at first, and that all funds for an undefined initial period would go to cover startup costs. DP shipped out the first EA game in mid May 2020, and that's also when it announced that it would implement the 3 to 1 ratio going forward.
So assuming DP has kept its word, 1/4 of all games produced since May should have gone to EAs. If you assume they were making 4 games/2 weeks over that period -- I believe that number came from DP but not sure if it was aspirational or a report on actual production numbers -- then they should have shipped roughly 34 games total: 17 new sales at $12.5k and 8 or 9 EA games. Again, I don't know whether that's actually happened, but at least it's based on what DP said they planned to do.
Once they made the 3-1 pledge, serial numbers were early 90's.. that's when my buddy got his. All games will have a serial number.. If there is some funny business going on, will all figure it out real quick. I'm guessing 140's by now. 138 for sure if the pinside owner count is correct.
Quoted from Lamberger:Once they made the 3-1 pledge, serial numbers were early 90's.
Assuming they serial numbered them sequentially from 1, I'd have thought the first 90 or so were the ones made back in ~2015. If that's right then anything numbered higher than that would be a new games made starting in late 2019 / early 2020, so shouldn't the machines coming off the line by late May 2020 (when they instituted the 3 to 1 policy) have been higher serial number than the low 90s?
Quoted from fosaisu:Assuming they serial numbered them sequentially from 1, I'd have thought the first 90 or so were the ones made back in ~2015. If that's right then anything numbered higher than that would be a new games made starting in late 2019 / early 2020, so shouldn't the machines coming off the line by late May 2020 (when they instituted the 3 to 1 policy) have been higher serial number than the low 90s?
FWIW, recently produced games have serial numbers above 400.
I heard that over 180 TBL games have been built so far. I don't know whether this includes EA games (must, right?). This was back in August, so I imagine a few more games since then if this is somewhat true (including TunaDelight and others).
As you perhaps already have read in Pinball magazines newsletter Barry was 99.9% sure to sign the paperwork to a bigger factory this week.
This move is intended to be able to increase production volume. Current plant is just to small to boost production significantly (currently roughly 4 every 2 weeks).
Hopefully the transition to the new plant will be ready by end of the month. They will try to make this Happen without interrupting production to much but for sure there will be some down time as you can understand.
So let’s hope the moving goes fluently and that production will ASAP be increased.
Quoted from highdef:FWIW, recently produced games have serial numbers above 400.
I heard that over 180 TBL games have been built so far. I don't know whether this includes EA games (must, right?). This was back in August, so I imagine a few more games since then if this is somewhat true (including TunaDelight and others).
Maybe someone that just gets one lately can post the serial number, will see exactly where Dp is at.
Quoted from Rensh:As you perhaps already have read in Pinball magazines newsletter Barry was 99.9% sure to sign the paperwork to a bigger factory this week.
This move is intended to be able to increase production volume. Current plant is just to small to boost production significantly (currently roughly 4 every 2 weeks).
Hopefully the transition to the new plant will be ready by end of the month. They will try to make this Happen without interrupting production to much but for sure there will be some down time as you can understand.
So let’s hope the moving goes fluently and that production will ASAP be increased.
I thought the license for TBL expired at the end of this year. Have they already confirmed they can renew it?
Quoted from JustEverett:I thought the license for TBL expired at the end of this year. Have they already confirmed they can renew it?
For what’s it’s worth to you, DP has confirmed renewing to me. No worries there.
Quoted from Rensh:As you perhaps already have read in Pinball magazines newsletter Barry was 99.9% sure to sign the paperwork to a bigger factory this week.
This move is intended to be able to increase production volume. Current plant is just to small to boost production significantly (currently roughly 4 every 2 weeks).
Hopefully the transition to the new plant will be ready by end of the month. They will try to make this Happen without interrupting production to much but for sure there will be some down time as you can understand.
So let’s hope the moving goes fluently and that production will ASAP be increased.
I think it's great that Barry is ramping up production and continuing to push out games as fast as possible. This helps EAs get closer to their game.
The question is whether TBL will continue to be worthy of $12,500 price point in this current landscape. We've already seen a few cases where TBL buyers were underwhelmed with the game after unboxing. Different strokes for different folks, but at some point, people are going to question the real value of this game beyond its limited availability. This is why I hope DP releases updated code sooner vs. later. I feel that DP needs as much ammo as possible after JJP set the bar this week with Guns.
I'm not being a naysayer by any means. I want DP to pull through. Updating the code could help generate more NIB sales.
Quoted from Rensh:For what’s it’s worth to you, DP has confirmed renewing to me. No worries there.
Only a Question.... Will DP ever confirm anything like the software question, the license, the numbers, with Customers or are you the only one he will ever speak to? Seems like you are being used for a "we never committed to that" position way out. Not complaining just feels like everything from this company has to be second hand when the Buyers are asking rather simple questions. Just a viewpoint.
Quoted from highdef:I think it's great that Barry is ramping up production and continuing to push out games as fast as possible. This helps EAs get closer to their game.
The question is whether TBL will continue to be worthy of $12,500 price point in this current landscape. We've already seen a few cases where TBL buyers were underwhelmed with the game after unboxing. Different strokes for different folks, but at some point, people are going to question the real value of this game beyond its limited availability. This is why I hope DP releases updated code sooner vs. later. I feel that DP needs as much ammo as possible after JJP set the bar this week with Guns.
I'm not being a naysayer by any means. I want DP to pull through. Updating the code could help generate more NIB sales.
This is a great point. I got my TBL back in June and absolutely love it. Certainly the honeymoon phase is over and I don't play it as much as I used to (maybe once a week I turn it on vs every day when I first got it). At $12.5k it was the largest purchase by far I have ever made in this hobby and required me to sell off 2 games I absolutely loved - one of which was a very nice DE GNR.
To me it was worth it because the theme is a dream come true, the execution is fantastic and my investment is by all accounts, secure. Yes I said investment. Every soul to own one of these and move it along has broken even (at worst) or made massive profit.
At the moment all I can say is that I have been actively thinking of offering this up as trade bait for a GNR CE. JJP absolutely killed it with GNR. I along with many others in this hobby still haven't picked our jaws up off the floor of what unfolded this week. Game changer.
DP is definitely going to need to reignite some enthusiasm to keep TBL interest going and a strong code update is just the ticket. It will stoke the discussion around the game for all current owners and it will likely inspire new buyers or just simply inspire the current folks on the list to keep their spots and not cut bait and move along to GNR or something else.
Would I actually trade my TBL for a GNR CE? I would seriously consider it. JJP set a new bar in the industry with this one, period. Will I ever be able to get another TBL at $12.5k in the future when sellers remorse sets in? Maybe? But no guarantees.
Quoted from highdef:This is why I hope DP releases updated code sooner vs. later. I feel that DP needs as much ammo as possible after JJP set the bar this week with Guns. I'm not being a naysayer by any means. I want DP to pull through. Updating the code could help generate more NIB sales.
I think it's impossible to compare the Big Lebowski with Guns n' Roses, they are totally different themes that appeal to different people. There are a lot of people that don't care for the GNR theme at all, and while the game looks pretty, people are buying it before they have seen how it plays, they could be dumping it like The Munsters in a few months. There are always people attracted to the newest shiny game and will buy it before they've played it, I think that's a pretty select market though and they already either have a TBL or have already decided they don't want to buy one. I'm sure Dutch can sell 500 of these if they keep making them, that's not a huge number and right now they still have a good sized waiting list.
Quoted from highdef:I think it's great that Barry is ramping up production and continuing to push out games as fast as possible. This helps EAs get closer to their game.
The question is whether TBL will continue to be worthy of $12,500 price point in this current landscape. We've already seen a few cases where TBL buyers were underwhelmed with the game after unboxing. Different strokes for different folks, but at some point, people are going to question the real value of this game beyond its limited availability. This is why I hope DP releases updated code sooner vs. later. I feel that DP needs as much ammo as possible after JJP set the bar this week with Guns.
I'm not being a naysayer by any means. I want DP to pull through. Updating the code could help generate more NIB sales.
Quoted from Yelobird:Only a Question.... Will DP ever confirm anything like the software question, the license, the numbers, with Customers or are you the only one he will ever speak to? Seems like you are being used for a "we never committed to that" position way out. Not complaining just feels like everything from this company has to be second hand when the Buyers are asking rather simple questions. Just a viewpoint.
Updating the code and informing potential/current customers whats going on might also sell more of these. I just think its going to be hard moving forward at that price point. Some bad ass games have come out since this and the GnR CE at the same price? Ya...
Quoted from nwpinball:I think it's impossible to compare the Big Lebowski with Guns n' Roses, they are totally different themes that appeal to different people. There are a lot of people that don't care for the GNR theme at all, and while the game looks pretty, people are buying it before they have seen how it plays, they could be dumping it like The Munsters in a few months. There are always people attracted to the newest shiny game and will buy it before they've played it, I think that's a pretty select market though and they already either have a TBL or have already decided they don't want to buy one. I'm sure Dutch can sell 500 of these if they keep making them, that's not a huge number and right now they still have a good sized waiting list.
Its not impossible, as there are certainly buyers interested in both pins. Question will be, which one gets the $$$. I think GnR CE are sold out anyway, so $12,500 vs $9500. As far as GnR being a stinker? Highly doubtful. All other JJP pins are a blast, even if the themes dont resonate with people. (Dialed in). TBL has some major headwinds...
Quoted from Roostking:Updating the code and informing potential/current customers whats going on might also sell more of these. I just think its going to be hard moving forward at that price point. Some bad ass games have come out since this and the GnR CE at the same price? Ya...
keep in mind, GNR is absolutely badass and a sensory overload that TBL cant compete with but for $12.5k on TBL you are still getting an extremely well executed pin that holds up well and has probably the best theme integration of any non-music license ever in pinball history. Not only that but it is and will continue to remain very rare long term. GNR's will be mass produced in the thousands upon thousands (for the LE specifically) and likely we will see some offshoot CE version later down the road with different art but including the topper and the that skull shooter rod assembly. So think you still have 2 distinct packages with each game.
GnR looks amazing but the theme doesn't interest me at all. According to Melissa last week, I am #2 on the 12.5k list and there are three more EA games going out next. She also said there are almost 200 people on the 12.5k list.
This may have been answered before but I'm just curious if anyone can confirm the difference b/t the "standard" and "EA" version. Is the only difference, that the EA version has the serial number plaque and an apron that lights up? Or are there more differences than that? Apologies in advance for my ignorance!
Quoted from Roostking:TBL has some major headwinds...
100% - This is exactly the point I was making.
Quoted from TRAMD:GnR looks amazing but the theme doesn't interest me at all. According to Melissa last week, I am #2 on the 12.5k list and there are three more EA games going out next. She also said there are almost 200 people on the 12.5k list.
1) Congrats on getting closer to your game.
2) Almost 200 people on the waitlist = awesome news, especially considering that this game is still fairly "underground" in terms of awareness. I just want to see the momentum continue. I believe updates from DP would certainly help.
Quoted from timlah79:This may have been answered before but I'm just curious if anyone can confirm the difference b/t the "standard" and "EA" version. Is the only difference, that the EA version has the serial number plaque and an apron that lights up? Or are there more differences than that? Apologies in advance for my ignorance!
The EA is not for sale so not an issue but yes a plaque
Quoted from Lamberger:Maybe someone that just gets one lately can post the serial number, will see exactly where Dp is at.
I'm No. 339, which if actually 39th in serial order would supposedly be the last completed ARA. We kept hearing there were 40 ARA games but I was later told I got the last one. Then we know there were a few (at least 1 maybe 2) unfinished games that DP finished before they started building complete games themselves. So if serial order is consistent, then new fully complete DP games should have started around 341
Quoted from Time:I'm No. 339, which if actually 39th in serial order would supposedly be the last completed ARA. We kept hearing there were 40 ARA games but I was later told I got the last one. Then we know there were a few (at least 1 maybe 2) unfinished games that DP finished before they started building complete games themselves. So if serial order is consistent, then new fully complete DP games should have started around 341
Makes sense, my buddy's was 390 something. low 90's back in February.
Quoted from Lamberger:Makes sense, my buddy's was 390 something. low 90's back in February.
so assuming the serials are in order:
4 - Original Protos & Engineering Samples
4 - Xytech Engineering Samples w/ new PCBs (Only 3 seen)
52 - ARA built and shipped EA's (1 destroyed)
39 - ARA built delivered to new buyers
2 - ARA built finished by DP delivered to new buyers
50 - (Supposedly) DP built delivered to new buyers
I think we've been told 10 EAs got games but then only confirmed like 2 here on Pinside right? You'd think then EA games would get the original serial numbers. So the 50 or so new DP would be all new money buyers? Do we think DP has actually shipped that many new units? That would be like avg 5 month and I think its been more like 2 a month with the slow start.
This guy was #370 in March 2020 (seems to support the 50ish new builds being possible)
This guy says EA 64 will be available for pickup ( seems to support the 10 EA number)
GNR looks great, well done to JJP but this is a great theme for a pinball game and DP executed it really well. The call outs make me laugh everytime I see a stream of the game.
Here's hoping they update the code and continue to get the games out. You can't fault Barry's perseverance.
Quoted from Time:so assuming the serials are in order:
4 - Original Protos & Engineering Samples
4 - Xytech Engineering Samples w/ new PCBs (Only 3 seen)
52 - ARA built and shipped EA's (1 destroyed)
39 - ARA built delivered to new buyers
2 - ARA built finished by DP delivered to new buyers
50 - (Supposedly) DP built delivered to new buyers
I think we've been told 10 EAs got games but then only confirmed like 2 here on Pinside right? You'd think then EA games would get the original serial numbers. So the 50 or so new DP would be all new money buyers? Do we think DP has actually shipped that many new units? That would be like avg 5 month and I think its been more like 2 a month with the slow start.
This guy was #370 in March 2020 (seems to support the 50ish new builds being possible)
This guy says EA 64 will be available for pickup ( seems to support the 10 EA number)
Looking good so far.. Hopefully no one reports getting #570.lol
Quoted from Yelobird:The EA is not for sale so not an issue but yes a plaque
Right I have a standard on order. So what's the difference b/t the EA and the standard besides no plaque? That's my question.
Quoted from timlah79:Right I have a standard on order. So what's the difference b/t the EA and the standard besides no plaque? That's my question.
its the lit apron. nothing more.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:its the lit apron. nothing more.
The EA version also comes with 6+ years of anxiety and high blood pressure.
Quoted from highdef:The EA version also comes with 6+ years of anxiety and high blood pressure.
Plus a promise to get one ....maybe someday ....unfortunately.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:its the lit apron. nothing more.
Thank you for clarifying!
Quoted from cpr9999:Plus a promise to get one ....maybe someday ....unfortunately.
Quoted from highdef:The EA version also comes with 6+ years of anxiety and high blood pressure.
I'm so sorry for your guys' plight, I can't even imagine the frustration. But things are looking up nowadays, right? Aka you both will get your long lost EA's somewhat soon? I preordered my "standard" in Jan last year and only now thought to ask the difference question. I hope anyone who preordered an EA or any version 4-6 years ago get's theirs ASAP.
Quoted from Rensh:To lighten our moods. Posted on Instagram
Is she missing a toe?
Quoted from fosaisu:Is she missing a toe?
I’m betting there is camel toe
1 week later
Well Dudes ... it took a while (2,283 days since sending my preorder payment to DP in July 2014 to be exact), but I'm very happy to report that I have now finally joined the Big Lebowski owners club! I'm enjoying my TBL Early Achiever Edition #59 and it's everything I have hoped for since getting excited about the game when it was just a rumor.
My thanks to all the Pinsiders - particularly Rensh - that have provided positive support throughout the years of waiting, Coin Taker, those that have enabled DP to keep going by buying new games, and Barry at Dutch Pinball for hanging in there and working to fulfill his commitment to EA's! I wish continued TBL sales success to DP and acceleration of the manufacturing of the remaining 120 or more EA games.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Well Dudes ... it took a while (2,283 days since sending my preorder payment to DP in July 2014 to be exact), but I'm very happy to report that I have now finally joined the Big Lebowski owners club! I'm enjoying my TBL Early Achiever Edition #59 and it's everything I have hoped for since getting excited about the game when it was just a rumor.
My thanks to all the Pinsiders - particularly Rensh - that have provided positive support throughout the years of waiting and Barry at Dutch Pinball for hanging in there and working to fulfill his commitment to EA's! I wish continued TBL sales success to DP and acceleration of the manufacturing of the remaining 120 or more EA games.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Don't forget to thank CoinTaker and the new buyers.
Yo dudes! A quick update about my TBL experience...I sort of went radio silent...but now it's time to share the story...
My EA #52 was the first EA delivered several months back. It arrived to my photo studio where it was going to live in an indoor forest of birch trees. After all this time I was so excited that it was actually coming to fruition. I noticed when DHL dropped it off it had a small puncture in the upper middle of the box. But it was small, and I could see through it to the back of the machine and it looked okay. Whew. Told DHL I was not going to sign as it needed further inspection, but I think the delivery person sneakily signed for me, under the guise of Covid...
I open up the top of the box, looks good, so I reach in to start removing the paperwork. Pull out the paperwork. Next go to grab a leg and notice there is blood everywhere. I sliced my hand open, and then look further in and see glass EVERYWHERE. E-V-E-R-Y-W-H-E-R-E. Fucked.
DHL skewered my TBL with a forklift. Scratched up the machine, bent side rails, bent backbox, etc. I spent several days cleaning glass out of it. It's unbelievable how much glass I took out. Then for a week I was sucking it out of nooks and crannies. And I even found the best tool for some of the last pieces stuck in really tight places...extra long roach clips (the Dude would approve)!
I was bummed. Barry was bummed. Melissa got on it, got her lawyers involved, and even though it took longer than anticipated, it was finally handled, a total loss. Steve from Pinball Refinery is located an hour from me, and he came and took care of it, picked it up and out of my hair. Everyone involved was awesome, had my back, and got it done. What a community.
Here's the amazing part of the story. That thing is built so well, that even in a wrecked state, with bent components, it worked. While I waited for Melissa & DHL to sort it, I had a machine that worked fine, just was a visual train wreck. I was able to put a couple hundred games on it. So cool. That apron is a beautiful touch! Everything is so solid. And the lighting and theme integration...just amazing. A masterpiece. Can't say enough about how special this machine is...
A few days ago a brand new EA#52 arrived (box looks great), and is currently on it's crate packaged up still. I waited to share this story because I didn't wanna bum anyone out or send a negative sentiment into the ether...rather let Barry & Cointaker resolve it, and they did. They were all awesome.
So now here I am, in the midst of Covid, and I own a business in an industry that has grinded to a halt. I have a good sized overhead, and 80% of business is currently gone. On top of that, I had some rot on the back of my house getting repaired to the tune of about 20K, and as we got into it a couple weeks back we realized the rot had spread, and I'm currently rebuilding a large back section of my house (including sliding doors and windows) and it's all gonna come out to about 100K, and I'm sitting here wondering if things will bounce back or if this winter I'll run out of cash. So sadly, there is a chance I'm going to liquidate my entire collection to offset that nightmare repair. And if business bounces back, I can rebuild. Regardless, I was able to put a couple hundred games on, and there is zero chance I'd be selling this if it wasn't for Covid, but we'll see...it was never the plan. I keep waiting every day hoping some sign of good projects come in, and I can hold off and unbox with confidence, but at the moment some of my biggest clients have stopped all shooting, and are cutting budgets...so we'll see.
But even after getting skewered with a forklift, this tank of a build was playable. Amazing. Thank you to everyone (except DHL!), Barry, Melissa, Steve, Rensh, the whole community is super helpful and just goes to show the true love of the pin. DP is gong to see this thing through. Purchase with confidence!
IMG_7300 (1) (resized).JPG_MR26638 (resized).jpg_MR26643 (resized).jpg_MR26653 (resized).jpgQuoted from Tuna_Delight:Well Dudes ... it took a while (2,283 days since sending my preorder payment to DP in July 2014 to be exact), but I'm very happy to report that I have now finally joined the Big Lebowski owners club!
Congrats Tuna! Hope you're playing the hell out of it to make up for all that lost time. And glad to see you went with dual drink holders, caucasian on the left and oat soda on the right is the only way to roll.
Quoted from Nikonokin:DHL skewered my TBL with a forklift. Scratched up the machine, bent side rails, bent backbox, etc. I spent several days cleaning glass out of it.
Strikes and gutters indeed! Good to hear that Cointaker took good care of you on this one, and that you've got a replacement in hand. I hope you don't have to sell it after all of this, but sounds like you've got your priorities in order and the games will always be here when you're back in a position to spend time and money on silly toys.
Quoted from turbo20lbs:Don't forget to thank CoinTaker and the new buyers.
Absolutely! Thanks man - that was my intent, but I've now amended my post to be more specific.
Quoted from Nikonokin:Yo dudes! A quick update about my TBL experience...I sort of went radio silent...but now it's time to share the story...
Yikes - now I really feel fortunate! Thanks for sharing. So sorry re: your bad luck with your TBL's delivery, but glad to hear that the Coin Taker team and DP came through for you. I wish you the best rebounding with your business, house, and pinball!
Quoted from fosaisu:Congrats Tuna! Hope you're playing the hell out of it to make up for all that lost time. And glad to see you went with dual drink holders, caucasian on the left and oat soda on the right is the only way to roll. ...
lol
Thanks Dude - I do enjoy a complementary beverage with my oat soda when I play pinball!
This thread was long overdue for some good news and stories, including the video that Rensh just shared.
Congrats Tuna_Delight and
Nikonokin
I'm even happier to see that you believe the wait was well worth it. This gives hope to the rest of the EAs.
Quoted from paulbaptiste:Yes, I was told by Melissa they were sending out a list that would tell us all our place in lane and updated ETA. This hasn't happened yet. I sent a follow up email to inquire about the update and haven't heard back. I will follow up!
Did you get that list?
Quoted from cpr9999:Did you get that list?
I've had no success myself, trying to figure out approximate place in 'line', etc....tried numerous times.
Bent Side rails and back box total loss? Wow total luck for you. that is nothing compared to the local one dropped by dhl that we had to rebuild
Quoted from cpr9999:Did you get that list?
I did not. I followed up and the answer I got back is they are hoping to ramp up production. No more detail than that.
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