(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

5 years ago



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There are 11582 posts in this topic. You are on page 231 of 232.
#11501 47 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I don’t think those number are correct. To my understanding the 40 12.5k units was payment Directly to ARA to release unpaid assets and games. The other 12.5k at 20 would be assumed correct.

Not counting the 40 "hostage games" . They said average 10 / month for 6 months would be 60 games

#11502 47 days ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

Not counting the 40 "hostage games" . They said average 10 / month for 6 months would be 60 games

Oh sorry misunderstood. Personally I am betting he hasn’t built and shipped 20 but that’s my guess. No chance he did 60 by hand that I would bet on.

#11503 47 days ago

No idea how fast they are shipping but they definitely are.

#11504 46 days ago
Quoted from kidchrisso:

I have heard from a reliable source that it has been 10 games per month. Wish they would have bit the bullet 5 years ago with production in house...who knows, they could have been on even level with Spooky by now. Glad to see they are getting them to the finish line.

DP is farther from the finish line, than when they started production at ARA! I do hope they make it though!!

#11505 45 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

DP is farther from the finish line, than when they started production at ARA! I do hope they make it though!!

And much closer than they have ever been the last 2 or 3 years.

13
#11506 45 days ago

Just posted on DP Instagram

0A40860A-9864-4FC8-B586-02F1306D6EC7 (resized).jpeg
#11507 45 days ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Just posted on DP Instagram[quoted image]

Yeeeeeah.

#11508 45 days ago

So who do you think is going to get this one?

#11509 45 days ago
Quoted from crwjumper:

So who do you think is going to get this one?

I'm guessing they'd have mentioned if it was going to an EA, but maybe they're saving up to make a big announcement for the first of those.

14
#11510 45 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I'm guessing they'd have mentioned if it was going to an EA, but maybe they're saving up to make a big announcement for the first of those.

I'm not at the very front of the remaining EA line, but given the number (55 +/-) of EA's that I understand have received their original TBLs, and that #58 (rarehero) got a refund, I should be pretty damn close to it at #59.

I haven't personally heard boo from DP about getting my TBL, but if and when I do, I'll be sure to share it on Pinside.

#11511 41 days ago

I cannot make heads or tails out of this thread.

So Dutch Pinball offered a game called "The Big Lebowski." (Which I saw at the Allentown Pin Fest)

People paid up front for the game, about $12,000. Don't know how many people did this.

A small number of people received games from Dutch Pinball. Don't know how many.

Dutch Pinball went out of business and stiffed the people who paid up front.

Now they're making the game again and it's being sold to NEW customers by Cointaker.

But the original customers are still waiting? Or are they getting their games?

And the TBLs are showing up for sale by the customers on classified ads at nosebleed prices.

WTF

Could someone who knows about this saga make a real quick summary? Pretty please with little sugar dumplins on top?

#11512 41 days ago

Summary. You can read the last 231 pages if you want the details

2014 DP took deposits (and many paid in full) for 190 games.
2015-2016 DP and ARA (manuf.) worked to create the game and finalize.
2016 55 games were shipped (40 more games were boxed and sat in a warehouse). DP was out of money and ARA was owed money.
135 people were owed games. Employees let go, partner ships dissolved.
2017-19 Various things were done to get back on track but nothing happened. ARA sued DP.
2019 DP/ARA worked out an agreement per court to sell the 40 boxed games for 500k to pay back ARA and DP (Barry) gets the remaining parts.
late 2019 40 boxed games were brokered by Cointaker (who were also owed games).
DP and Cointaker work out additional deal for new TBLS to be made for 12.5k each.
Estimated 135 people are still owed games from 2016. Deal would make those 135 people whole someday after 265-365 games are sold to new
buyers (no specifics on timeline).
Present Barry (DP) and helpers begin building games.
Its unknown at the moment how many were built but an estimate 8-16 shipped to new buyers with 4 more in progress.
In a nutshell DP needs to build at least 400 games (265 new money and 135 owed). No timeline for those owed yet.

Quoted from irobot:

I cannot make heads or tails out of this thread.
So Dutch Pinball offered a game called "The Big Lebowski." (Which I saw at the Allentown Pin Fest)
People paid up front for the game, about $12,000. Don't know how many people did this.
A small number of people received games from Dutch Pinball. Don't know how many.
Dutch Pinball went out of business and stiffed the people who paid up front.
Now they're making the game again and it's being sold to NEW customers by Cointaker.
But the original customers are still waiting? Or are they getting their games?
And the TBLs are showing up for sale by the customers on classified ads at nosebleed prices.
WTF
Could someone who knows about this saga make a real quick summary? Pretty please with little sugar dumplins on top?

-5
#11513 41 days ago

Ask RENSH or cointaker they are knee deep in this fraud.

-5
#11514 41 days ago

Last year, before DP announced they lost the courtcase, a former owner left the compagny. Beside the 40 TBLs which sat at a warehouse, DP finished some partly assembled units. From mid 2010 untill now it’s known that approx. 4 units where assembled by DP, we saw 4 plain playfields on a jig, there was one box ( with or without a machine) trying to hop on a DHL truck. But at right this moment there are 4 EA TBLs in progress, proof was given by a picture showing the special achiever apron! This year DP target is to get even with all Dudes who supported them during this journey. Nobody asked : where’s the money, Lebowski! Every thing will work out fine!

#11515 40 days ago

Truely wondering where you get your intel. This as Much more than 4 units we’re made. Don’t judge on just a few insta pictures.

-7
#11516 40 days ago

Sorry, your right. There is no evidence whatever to show what has or is build by DP or even if there is a new factory! it may all be fake news? Only fact of which I can get some sort of proof is this : https://drimble.nl/bedrijf/roermond/28502035/dutch-pinball-bv.html.
It may even be that the plain playfields, four almost finished TBLs, one box for DHL transport and EA aprons are not intended to be delivered at the doorstep of new money spenders. I cann't tell who is right or wrong. My only hope is that DP will get what they deserve and EA get there paid for TBL or refund!

14
#11517 40 days ago

For what’s worth to you I have visited DP like 15+ times helping them and can confirm that the factory does exist. In fact I even converted a proto TBL original meant for Xytech to an Ara version which is now in clubhouse of the Dutch pinball association in Veenendaal. See the clubmagasine Spinner for the full story.

You wanna see DP? Just drive to Roermond and check it out. U

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-8
#11518 40 days ago

Thanks for the responce! So one EA TBL stays at the club house? And we’ve got a frontdoor with a photoshopped sign, or is this evidence?

#11519 40 days ago
Quoted from PinballyDutchy:

Thanks for the responce! So one EA TBL stays at the club house? And we’ve got a frontdoor with a photoshopped sign, or is this evidence?

Why don't you GTF off his lawn and troll somewhere else.

Reach out to Barry himself, barry@dutchpinball.com.

I have communicated with him a couple of times the past few weeks and he responds within 24 hrs.....just don't act like a jack ass and you may get your answers.

#11520 40 days ago
Quoted from kidchrisso:

Why don't you GTF off his lawn and troll somewhere else.
Reach out to Barry himself, barry@dutchpinball.com.
I have communicated with him a couple of times the past few weeks and he responds within 24 hrs.....just don't act like a jack ass and you may get your answers.

His only posts are in TBL threads and I have no clue what he wants. He is based on NL so he can simply drive to roermond to check if DP has a real factory or not.

I can post as many pictures as needed but his only answer will be photoshop

And the unit in the clubhouse is an used not working Xytech proto reconverted by spending over 40 hours to a working used proto. So not an EA unit. But why do I even try to explain this to him? He doesn’t believe it anyway ......

#11521 40 days ago
Quoted from Rensh:

His only posts are in TBL threads and I have no clue what he wants. He is based on NL so he can simply drive to roermond to check if DP has a real factory or not.
I can post as many pictures as needed but his only answer will be photoshop
And the unit in the clubhouse is an used not working Xytech proto reconverted by spending over 40 hours to a working used proto. So not an EA unit. But why do I even try to explain this to him? He doesn’t believe it anyway ......

There is always one bad apple in the bunch...Thanks rensh for the communication.

-7
#11522 40 days ago

The one bad Apple must be Barry...

#11523 40 days ago

Rensh this is great news !!

Please post a picture of DPs plan to pay back the EA ?

Or maybe take a picture of a Barry’s acknowledgment of the theft, fraud and personal legal responsibility to pay back the EAs

Honestly

#11524 40 days ago

I hear people are having problems getting parts from Cointaker... parts for machines that arrived broken or messed up. While this is "through the grapevine", my source is credible and has no bias against DP (or CT).

I have no regrets selling my machine but wish the best for those going forward.

#11525 40 days ago
Quoted from Cobray:

I hear people are having problems getting parts from Cointaker... parts for machines that arrived broken or messed up. While this is "through the grapevine", my source is credible and has no bias against DP (or CT).
I have no regrets selling my machine but wish the best for those going forward.

After this news above, I'm having second thoughts about my order. Bad news for the EA's, I guess thats what your saying?

Decided to add it to my house insurance, something happens.. they have the millions to chase it down and sue

#11526 40 days ago
Quoted from Cobray:

I hear people are having problems getting parts from Cointaker... parts for machines that arrived broken or messed up. While this is "through the grapevine", my source is credible and has no bias against DP (or CT).
I have no regrets selling my machine but wish the best for those going forward.

Is this source recent? I contacted Barry and ordered replacement playfields, plastic set, and even the complete rug mech and had no issues? He’s not super speedy being a one man operation but nothing really out of normal.

#11527 40 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Is this source recent? I contacted Barry and ordered replacement playfields, plastic set, and even the complete rug mech and had no issues? He’s not super speedy being a one man operation but nothing really out of normal.

Curious did you order any spare boards?

#11528 40 days ago
Quoted from Lamberger:

After this news above, I'm having second thoughts about my order. Bad news for the EA's, I guess thats what your saying?
Decided to add it to my house insurance, something happens.. they have the millions to chase it down and sue

I really do hope DP does come through for EA's.. but of course this is about those providing $12,500 for a "NIB game" where the customer assumes the manufacturer is, to some degree, still in production (as slow as it may be) and providing material support (parts and tech support) to the customers and/or Cointaker. There appears to be people that are still waiting for warranty parts from the shipment in August. That's six months. Sure there was time needed to get things ironed out in the first crazy months of DP getting the games, but I don't see any excuse at this point.

#11529 40 days ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Curious did you order any spare boards?

Haven’t really seen the need in my opinion. It’s a large GI board like most all games that come out now. Like all games past in time we find solutions to repair them if needed. Could be wrong but I’m lot to worried about those.

#11530 40 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Is this source recent? I contacted Barry and ordered replacement playfields, plastic set, and even the complete rug mech and had no issues? He’s not super speedy being a one man operation but nothing really out of normal.

Was this a straight out purchase of the parts or warranty/promised parts?

#11531 40 days ago
Quoted from Cobray:

Was this a straight out purchase of the parts or warranty/promised parts?

You are correct this was a straight up back up plan purchase. Your statement may be correct if it’s warranty but I will say even for questions he does respond via email. Granted I don’t know what issues they are having.

#11532 40 days ago

As far as I know availability of spares is no issue besides spare PCB. As soon as he has more of those on stock it will become more available.

However, this remark only Applies to those ordering an extra Spare PCB, if somebody has a warranty issue that’s a different issue and will be sorted out quickly.

If somebody is truely awaiting spares from an august shipment let me know through PM and Let me see what is going wrong. Suspect however nobody will report to me ....

#11533 40 days ago
Quoted from Rensh:

As far as I know availability of spares is no issue besides spare PCB. As soon as he has more of those on stock it will become more available.
However, this remark only Applies to those ordering an extra Spare PCB, if somebody has a warranty issue that’s a different issue and will be sorted out quickly.
If somebody is truely awaiting spares from an august shipment let me know through PM and Let me see what is going wrong. Suspect however nobody will report to me ....

So at this point would you say Barry is roughly building 10 games per month?

-1
#11534 40 days ago
Quoted from Cobray:

I really do hope DP does come through for EA's.. but of course this is about those providing $12,500 for a "NIB game" where the customer assumes the manufacturer is, to some degree, still in production (as slow as it may be) and providing material support (parts and tech support) to the customers and/or Cointaker. There appears to be people that are still waiting for warranty parts from the shipment in August. That's six months. Sure there was time needed to get things ironed out in the first crazy months of DP getting the games, but I don't see any excuse at this point.

well if its just barry, i mean ...come on guys, a little space please

#11535 39 days ago

I'm new to this thread and a HUGE TBL fan. I am asking out of curiosity, not looking for a fight:

What is the perceived plan for DP? Sell 3 new games a week, and send a 4th game to an EA to make up for the pre-orders? At 12.5k each, that's a lot of extra scratch to help DP make up for lost time. Do I have that right, or do you feel it's something different?

#11536 39 days ago

Something different but only Barry knows.

Quoted from MEuRaH:

I'm new to this thread and a HUGE TBL fan. I am asking out of curiosity, not looking for a fight:
What is the perceived plan for DP? Sell 3 new games a week, and send a 4th game to an EA to make up for the pre-orders? At 12.5k each, that's a lot of extra scratch to help DP make up for lost time. Do I have that right, or do you feel it's something different?

#11537 39 days ago

Played one the other day and now I want one. Dammit.

#11538 39 days ago
Quoted from MEuRaH:

...
What is the perceived plan for DP? Sell 3 new games a week, and send a 4th game to an EA to make up for the pre-orders? ...

I wish.

#11539 39 days ago

I do not think it's fair to call Barry a criminal, especially since he is still building and shipping games. The EAs (#50 and up) have been taken on a rollercoaster ride and then some, but Barry deserves credit for determination and perserverence. His pace is far from ideal, but he is obviously putting in effort to right the ship.

I'd buy a $12.5K game if it helped get EAs their game.

#11540 39 days ago
Quoted from gliebig:

Played one the other day and now I want one. Dammit.

Well... there are some for sale right now.

-3
#11541 39 days ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Summary. You can read the last 231 pages if you want the details
2014 DP took deposits (and many paid in full) for 190 games.
2015-2016 DP and ARA (manuf.) worked to create the game and finalize.
2016 55 games were shipped (40 more games were boxed and sat in a warehouse). DP was out of money and ARA was owed money.
135 people were owed games. Employees let go, partner ships dissolved.
2017-19 Various things were done to get back on track but nothing happened. ARA sued DP.
2019 DP/ARA worked out an agreement per court to sell the 40 boxed games for 500k to pay back ARA and DP (Barry) gets the remaining parts.
late 2019 40 boxed games were brokered by Cointaker (who were also owed games).
DP and Cointaker work out additional deal for new TBLS to be made for 12.5k each.
Estimated 135 people are still owed games from 2016. Deal would make those 135 people whole someday after 265-365 games are sold to new
buyers (no specifics on timeline).
Present Barry (DP) and helpers begin building games.
Its unknown at the moment how many were built but an estimate 8-16 shipped to new buyers with 4 more in progress.
In a nutshell DP needs to build at least 400 games (265 new money and 135 owed). No timeline for those owed yet.

195 EA prepaid USD8500 = USD1655000

135 EA did not get what was paid for = USD1147500
This was burned in 2014-2016 by two co-owners and one parttime employee.

It seems that from 400 TBLs 265 go to new customers and 135 to EA, so 1 for EA from each 3 manufactured.

Media silence from DP, very optimistic post from a close friend, a pain in the ass from a EA friend.... Earning and spending money from pinheads ain’t easy!

Bye Barry & Rensh

#11542 39 days ago

after steeling so much money Barry has lost his work ethic

thief in dutch Is “ dief”

#11543 39 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

I do not think it's fair to call Barry a criminal, especially since he is still building and shipping games. The EAs (#50 and up) have been taken on a rollercoaster ride and then some, but Barry deserves credit for determination and perserverence. His pace is far from ideal, but he is obviously putting in effort to right the ship. I'd buy a $12.5K game if it helped get EAs their game.

Agreed that it's a stretch to call Barry a criminal based on the evidence that's been presented in this thread. Same with the Photoshop speculation. But it cannot be denied that DP took in fat stacks of pre-order money, delivered only 1/4 of the games it sold, and then took years to pull together the current plan which it says will ultimately make things right. DP has also made some pretty misleading statements over the years (e.g. the whole "soundtrack approved" fiasco and the "board issues" that were used to explain away production stoppage when things went to hell with ARA). All of which gives people cause to blow off any new promises, statements of intent, etc. coming out of DP, and to focus only on actual results.

On the actual results front, we have seen a handful of "new production" games shipped over the past month or two, which is a potentially positive development. But still not a single game documented as shipped to an EA. Before we start handing out credit for determination, perseverance, or ship-righting, shouldn't we find out whether the proceeds from the new sales are actually being used to make EAs whole?

#11544 39 days ago

I don't understand how they legally can continue to trade when it appears they are technically insolvent. They can't meet their obligations to pre-order customers and those obligations are obviously well past being due. I certainly wouldn't want to be a director of the company and presumably have my personal assets now at risk too as a consequence.

I understand how EA's see this as the only possible chance of maybe getting something for the $$'s they put down years ago, but it's certainly a F*$ked up situation.

#11545 39 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Agreed that it's a stretch to call Barry a criminal based on the evidence that's been presented in this thread. Same with the Photoshop speculation. But it cannot be denied that DP took in fat stacks of pre-order money, delivered only 1/4 of the games it sold, and then took years to pull together the current plan which it says will ultimately make things right. DP has also made some pretty misleading statements over the years (e.g. the whole "soundtrack approved" fiasco and the "board issues" that were used to explain away production stoppage when things went to hell with ARA). All of which gives people cause to blow off any new promises, statements of intent, etc. coming out of DP, and to focus only on actual results.
On the actual results front, we have seen a handful of "new production" games shipped over the past month or two, which is a potentially positive development. But still not a single game documented as shipped to an EA. Before we start handing out credit for determination, perseverance, or ship-righting, shouldn't we find out whether the proceeds from the new sales are actually being used to make EAs whole?

Absolutely. I agree, especially since I was an EA for so many years. I will not argue or debate bad business decisions.
My point was that he isn't hiding in a cave. This is most productivity in several years.
I genuinely believe Rensh would not be as confident if he thought Barry has no chance of coming through. He is still responding to emails. I'm sure he wishes Jaap was around to help. It's a lot for one person.

#11546 38 days ago
Quoted from MEuRaH:

I'm new to this thread and a HUGE TBL fan. I am asking out of curiosity, not looking for a fight:
What is the perceived plan for DP? Sell 3 new games a week, and send a 4th game to an EA to make up for the pre-orders? At 12.5k each, that's a lot of extra scratch to help DP make up for lost time. Do I have that right, or do you feel it's something different?

Their is no plan, its a complete clustereff.

#11547 38 days ago

You have to ask Barry madoff

#11548 37 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Their is no plan, its a complete clustereff.

Ok, so those 2 who downvoted me, whats the plan?

#11549 37 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Ok, so those 2 who downvoted me, whats the plan?

The plan is very clearly laid out multiple times in this thread. I downvoted you because I presume you know this and are just trolling to be disruptive... Assuming for one moment that you somehow missed the plan laid out here, again multiple times, the goal is to build/sell enough games so that DP can build and deliver the EA machines that have already been paid for but never built/delivered. If you're looking for specific times/dates then I can't help you there but otherwise there is a clear path forward.

Jeff

#11550 37 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Ok, so those 2 who downvoted me, whats the plan?

Step 1. Collect underpants

Step 3. Profit.

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