Boy - I've been reading this thread since the beginning and, although I didn't pre-pay and become an EA (especially after all
those "teaser" emails I received after signing up for DP info), I was so tempted at the time.

Am I the only one that sees the recent situation as purely a money grab by Barry/DP ?
I don't think he has any plans (real or imagined) of producing this game and fulfilling EA's.
I think he's going to buy the minimum number of parts needed to maximize the number of games (20,30,40?)
that he can sell for the $12,500 ea and pocket the money. Probably predicated on how many cabinets and/or Playfields
he currently has.

I wish, instead of all this (presumed) talk of getting production going etc... he should return some money
to the EA's that have prepaid - Be it $1000 or 2000 or even $500 to each and everyone.
Alas, I don't see that happening.

The only way I see EA's of getting this game is to pony up another $12500 and possibley
recoup some of their money down the line if they can sell it for 15-20K
(and that is what I would think about doing if I had the funds)

Just IMHO and my .02
Go ahead and downvote ... but I really wish this game was going to be produced
and make everyone whole , just don't see it - and how in the hell can he sell these games and benefit "twice" ??

If you're actually a new buyer at $12.5k, why not just call Cointaker? Seems extremely low risk given that DP doesn't get the money until your game is ready to ship. They could tell you but I'd imagine it's refundable at-will if you change your mind given the uncertainty of the production schedule. At least you've got your place in the queue then. If it turns out he's actually able to make TBLs in any kind of volume under the circumstances, then great. If it turns out to be a bust, get your money back from Cointaker and be on your way.

As for blowing smoke up the EAs' asses, he needs them to be patient and not sue him if he's going to keep making games. Which is presumably what is motivating any ongoing outreach efforts.

Sweet... I see several finished cabinets. Hopefully he'll get around to shipping one to the guy who paid for one weeks ago.

Looks like Barry and team are building 4 TBLs at a time.

When are approx 300 games finished if lets say it takes 160hrs pro TBL to deliver quality?
Does a creative IT artist manage to keep focused?
Even when he gets no salary due to the satisfaction of EA’s? Perhaps someone can visit him each 3 weeks and report the progress!

Cool. Like what I see. Thanks for the photo Pinhead1982

Has the custom metalwork changed at all in the post-ARA builds? I'm not seeing much of that here in the photos. ARA was the ones fabricating the custom metal and I believe things like the metal subway are a known weakness right? I guess the same question for the PCB boards too since ARA had made those right? Are the new builds getting a new revision of the boards and are new boards backward compatible?

That will be huge if DP meet this timeline. Here’s hoping they are able to make at least some EAs whole.

Thx for sharing. Interesting they are looking to sub work out... if they can make that work and manage it properly.. that should make the idea of building more than a handful of games a reality. Good update from Dutch... but execution is king!

I assume that roughly 405 games need to be produced (which includes EA games) for all EAs to either receive their game or get a refund for their first game if they bought at second. That's a 3 to 1 ratio.

Can’t imagine how awesome this game will be when code hits 1.0

Back on the podcast, Barry said 400-500 total games need to be produced to make all of the EAs whole (sale of 265-365 games to new buyers funds production of 135 games for EAs). That would give you a ratio somewhere between 3 to 1 and 4 to 1. Hopefully it's a good sign that Barry feels the production process will be finalized enough by early next year to make some public statements about ratios and the process for getting EAs their games.

If another 500 of these do go out into the world, is it still a $12,500 game?

Outsourcing sub assemblies well help speed up production as will hiring additional staff. I'd guess that all EAs will have their TBLs by 2021.

Where is the money coming from?

From the payment they received for the ten games they've apparently shipped so far:

Plus I guess anyone outside the US that's been daft enough to give preorder money directly to DP.

Great question....at $8500 it was a slam dunk. then it was $10000 and there I think was the sweet spot. Now that its $12500, its at a ultra high end collector edition price but is a mass produced inaugural game from an unproven company with no (obvious) business plan moving forward...

And what are the new code features?

I hear there's an option of three games for eight quarters going to be available. No word on what brand of coin acceptors are included.

Pricing will be interesting. Will all 350ish new games sell for $12,500 or will demand drop off and the price get cut?

Would Barry do a version without the lower playfield and make it virtual bowling instead in order to sell it at a lower price point? Will there be demand for TBLs without the bowling mechanism?

At $12.5k for a rare novelty, sure that makes sense. As a run of 500 it starts to lose a little luster at that price. The business model should support mass production at a lower price if they can actually pull off a viable business model. Agreed a low price option with no bowling alley (back at 8500 perhaps?) becomes compelling.

by the time they get to 500 games shipped maybe $12.5k will be the going price for all NIB Pinball.

Yes - It's worth $12,500

Not sure myself. I think cutting features from the game would be a poor business decision. As for the 500, as a single model option with code still slowly rolling and a strong cult following I think it’s a better bet then 500 CE Wonka’s at 12.5k personally. Time will tell and while DP is a sad story the game is rather amazing if you like the theme. Well done.

EAs that joined the list towards the end paid $9,500. I doubt we'll see $8,500 again.

Would TBLs that don't have the lower playfield, chrome trim, or rug sell at $9,500?

A possible way to keep demand up at $12,500 would be to create limited editions with different translites. Jesus Edition, Walter Edition, Dude Edition, etc.

I had a deposit down for a WWCF CE and was underwhelmed when it was revealed. I don't see JJP selling 500 of them at $12,500.

Back out the EAs from the 500 and maybe there would be enough TBL demand at $12,500.

Personally I'd prefer a well done simulated bowling feature than the mech... at least you can get a strike from a split in simulated bowling... and even apply some spin and adjust speed and ball weight...

No more pre-order money. You pay when game is ready to ship

Yep, Cointaker in the US collects the $12,500 and sends it to DP when shipped.

For other orders outside of the US you pay DP when the game is ready to be shipped.

The last newsletter certainly seems pretty positive, and gives some hope that this could get done.

I do wonder how many games they can sell at $12,500?

I had a deposit with Nitro that got refunded years ago, and I'm tempted now to call Cointaker, but I think I'll wait and see if they continue to update the code and get it to 1.0

I really hope it works out. I think it's a great game.

What are the actual sales of CE games though? I think it’s a fraction of the actual limit.

CEs started shipping this month. Haven't seen sales numbers.

I believe shipping is extra so really your looking at $13,000 shipped to the US

This is what makes it so difficult to guess at the demand. One can reasonably assume that many, perhaps the majority, of the biggest TBL fans are already in as EA's. Therefore, your market of TBL zealots, who would pay $12,500 has been significantly reduced.

For US customers, $12,500 includes shipping.

That's why Barry should consider limited editions with different translites and aprons to keep the price point at $12,500. Jesus Edition, Donny Edition, Walter Edition, The Dude Edition, etc. If 500 total TBLs have to be produced (135 of which are paid for EA machines) that leaves 365 at $12,500 each.

Sell as many at $12,500 and when demand drops, introduce the limited editions. He could probably sell 50 Dudes and 50 Jesus. Walter and Donny could be 25 to 50 each.

There's probably enough demand at $12,500 for 200 TBLs before offering the limited editions to reach a total of 365 new money TBLs.

I like your idea of creating different translites/editions but feel that at $12.5k, there is a limited market (maybe 50 people in total) for any version of TBL. As there may be enough parts to build 25 complete games now, expect those to be offered first and for the missing parts order to be unsuccessful. Sorry to be a Downer, but as soon as DP builds the last TBL's with existing parts, they will be finished, along with the dream. There was never any way DP could build and sell 400+ plus TBL at $12.5k.

Well thought out plan but do remember we are talking about a company that had thousands of parts to build a Single model and failed the task now your suggesting they add Many new BOM skews as if they would be more successful with a complicated project. Lol. Keep it simple is the best coarse of action. Even if Barry does them old school one at a time himself. Just an opinion.

Right, if DP’s numbers reflect reality, they need to sell 265-365 games at $12,500. Still a fair question if that’s doable.

Well DP did sell ARA's 40 "Nihilists Editions" to new buyers. On another note... who's the Jesus edition going to be for -- 8 year olds?

Someone had mentioned a while back that the bowling alley mech cost something like $1600 ++

Good to see them making progress. Maybe they should have done it this way from the start.

He's getting paid by the hour

While I prefer the mechanical bowling feature, if a video bowling element were to be implemented, I would hope that it would mimic Namco's wonderful 2006 Rockin' Bowl-O-Rama.

Namco's Bowl-O-Rama was ahead of its time. The developers consulted with professional bowlers in creating a very realistic bowling experience. The player uses a track ball to both spin and control ball acceleration.

Splits can be made. Ball weight can be selected. The options add to the challenge. It's the best bowling simulator out there, all of these years later. Below is a brief video link demo.

I have a Nampo Bowl-O-Rama. Cool game. They’re still out there, find one while you can!

Opps, I meant “Namco”. LOL!

I meant “Namco”. LOL!

Just curious....are there going to be any differences in the new games being made now vs what's out in the world already?

In principal they are the same.

However, doing assembly now 100% themselves they see some chances to simplify production while maintaining quality and some changes will be made in the not to distant future.. Like replacing the cable harness for the bowling alley with a simplified version plus a PCB. All minor stuff as I understood and backwards compatible.

Nice, thank you

It's amazing how much one can accomplish without all those pesky Chinese holidays.

"oh sorry, can't make it tomorrow. it's uh.. um, national dragon day. Big holiday.".

Yeah! Here in America our new year is one day of being hung over then we get back to work.

"Chinese holidays"???