(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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#11151 18 days ago

Boy - I've been reading this thread since the beginning and, although I didn't pre-pay and become an EA (especially after all
those "teaser" emails I received after signing up for DP info), I was so tempted at the time.

Am I the only one that sees the recent situation as purely a money grab by Barry/DP ?
I don't think he has any plans (real or imagined) of producing this game and fulfilling EA's.
I think he's going to buy the minimum number of parts needed to maximize the number of games (20,30,40?)
that he can sell for the $12,500 ea and pocket the money. Probably predicated on how many cabinets and/or Playfields
he currently has.

I wish, instead of all this (presumed) talk of getting production going etc... he should return some money
to the EA's that have prepaid - Be it $1000 or 2000 or even $500 to each and everyone.
Alas, I don't see that happening.

The only way I see EA's of getting this game is to pony up another $12500 and possibley
recoup some of their money down the line if they can sell it for 15-20K
(and that is what I would think about doing if I had the funds)

Just IMHO and my .02
Go ahead and downvote ... but I really wish this game was going to be produced
and make everyone whole , just don't see it - and how in the hell can he sell these games and benefit "twice" ??

#11152 18 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see that photo but seriously....get a clue!! Barry needs new buyers, like me, to gain confidence and understanding in this whole thing, not continue to blow smoke up the EA's asses..

If you're actually a new buyer at $12.5k, why not just call Cointaker? Seems extremely low risk given that DP doesn't get the money until your game is ready to ship. They could tell you but I'd imagine it's refundable at-will if you change your mind given the uncertainty of the production schedule. At least you've got your place in the queue then. If it turns out he's actually able to make TBLs in any kind of volume under the circumstances, then great. If it turns out to be a bust, get your money back from Cointaker and be on your way.

As for blowing smoke up the EAs' asses, he needs them to be patient and not sue him if he's going to keep making games. Which is presumably what is motivating any ongoing outreach efforts.

#11153 18 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

[quoted image]

Sweet... I see several finished cabinets. Hopefully he'll get around to shipping one to the guy who paid for one weeks ago.

#11154 18 days ago

Looks like Barry and team are building 4 TBLs at a time.

#11155 18 days ago

When are approx 300 games finished if lets say it takes 160hrs pro TBL to deliver quality?
Does a creative IT artist manage to keep focused?
Even when he gets no salary due to the satisfaction of EA’s? Perhaps someone can visit him each 3 weeks and report the progress!

#11156 18 days ago

Cool. Like what I see. Thanks for the photo Pinhead1982

Has the custom metalwork changed at all in the post-ARA builds? I'm not seeing much of that here in the photos. ARA was the ones fabricating the custom metal and I believe things like the metal subway are a known weakness right? I guess the same question for the PCB boards too since ARA had made those right? Are the new builds getting a new revision of the boards and are new boards backward compatible?

#11157 16 days ago

I am waiting to hear from CT about my $12,500 TBL. I can't wait.

15
#11158 14 days ago

From Dutch Pinball

"Dear Kim

It's been a while since we've sent our a 'real' New Shit Newsletter. But after all we've been through and the progress we've made the past couple of months we think it's time again for one! So put on your dripping sunglasses and have a Caucasian Dude...

Production update
About two months ago we got the keys for our new facility. The first weeks we didn't have much of equipment, racks, or work benches to work with. We did order them, but it took some time before everything came in.

Instead of waiting we decided to start building games even though the whole floor was covered with pallets with hundreds of boxes of parts in it. While it was a great challenge to build games like this we managed to get out around six new games in the first 4-5 weeks. The following weeks we got our working tables, tools, racks, etc. to organize the facility: set up racks for all the parts, count all parts (again) and put it in our ERP system and preparing everything for production of new games more efficiently than picking parts from a pallet on the ground : )

We're happy with how things are going, but we still have a lot of stuff to organize before we can really speed up things. We are going to work together with some other local companies to speed up the production of 'simple' assemblies of the game which involve a lot of repetitive work. This will start in January. We are also going to collaborate with some other specialized companies to supply parts that were previously produced at our former manufacturer, like PCBA's, wire harnesses and sheet metal parts. This way we can manufacture games more efficiently without hiring a lot of staff immediately. The first new full time employees will join us beginning of next year as well and by then we expect production of games to be smooth with a steady number of games going out each week. We expect the first (original) EA games to go out beginning of next year. As soon as we are building games in a steady flow we can give more details on ratio and timing for this.

We are very motivated to make this work and to keep building as many games as possible so everybody can enjoy The Big Lebowski™ Pinball in the future.

New code 0.51
Although not final yet, we are releasing a new version of the code with some nice new features. To download and install the new version, click here.

Right now the focus of Dutch Pinball is almost solely dedicated to the production of games. As soon as production is running smooth and steadily we will invest time to finish the code for a 1.0 release version with all features implemented into it.

The Big Lebowksi Achiever Edition Apron
As promised all EA games that will be build from now on will have something unique only EA games will have. We are proud to show you the - limited to EA's only - custom cut, backlit 'The Big Lebowksi Achiever Edition' Apron!

In the photo above you see the first prototype we made of the apron to see whether the laser cutting was perfect enough to take the apron in production. As you can see it looks beautiful even with a simple color printed paper and LED strip below it. The aprons are now in production and will even be cooler than this first prototype. And as said before: this TBLAE-apron will only be available for Early Achievers. All new EA games will have this apron installed on the game. EA's that already have a game can order this apron as well to put on their game. Please contact us for details.

We'll send out more updates as soon as we have more 'new shit' to show you guys!

Until then, stay tuned.

Best regards,
Team Dutch Pinball"

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#11159 14 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

From Dutch Pinball ...
“We expect the first (original) EA games to go out beginning of next year.”

That will be huge if DP meet this timeline. Here’s hoping they are able to make at least some EAs whole.

#11160 14 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

From Dutch Pinball

Thx for sharing. Interesting they are looking to sub work out... if they can make that work and manage it properly.. that should make the idea of building more than a handful of games a reality. Good update from Dutch... but execution is king!

#11161 14 days ago

I assume that roughly 405 games need to be produced (which includes EA games) for all EAs to either receive their game or get a refund for their first game if they bought at second. That's a 3 to 1 ratio.

#11162 14 days ago

Can’t imagine how awesome this game will be when code hits 1.0

#11163 14 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

I assume that roughly 405 games need to be produced (which includes EA games) for all EAs to either receive their game or get a refund for their first game if they bought at second. That's a 3 to 1 ratio.

Back on the podcast, Barry said 400-500 total games need to be produced to make all of the EAs whole (sale of 265-365 games to new buyers funds production of 135 games for EAs). That would give you a ratio somewhere between 3 to 1 and 4 to 1. Hopefully it's a good sign that Barry feels the production process will be finalized enough by early next year to make some public statements about ratios and the process for getting EAs their games.

#11164 14 days ago

If another 500 of these do go out into the world, is it still a $12,500 game?

#11165 14 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Back on the podcast, Barry said 400-500 total games need to be produced to make all of the EAs whole (sale of 265-365 games to new buyers funds production of 135 games for EAs). That would give you a ratio somewhere between 3 to 1 and 4 to 1. Hopefully it's a good sign that Barry feels the production process will be finalized enough by early next year to make some public statements about ratios and the process for getting EAs their games.

Outsourcing sub assemblies well help speed up production as will hiring additional staff. I'd guess that all EAs will have their TBLs by 2021.

#11166 14 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

Outsourcing sub assemblies well help speed up production as will hiring additional staff. I'd guess that all EAs will have their TBLs by 2021.

Where is the money coming from?

#11167 14 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Where is the money coming from?

From the payment they received for the ten games they've apparently shipped so far:

Quoted from Pinhead1982:

10 BUILT FROM SCRATCH games have gone out.

Plus I guess anyone outside the US that's been daft enough to give preorder money directly to DP.

#11168 14 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

If another 500 of these do go out into the world, is it still a $12,500 game?

Great question....at $8500 it was a slam dunk. then it was $10000 and there I think was the sweet spot. Now that its $12500, its at a ultra high end collector edition price but is a mass produced inaugural game from an unproven company with no (obvious) business plan moving forward...

And what are the new code features?

#11169 14 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

And what are the new code features?

I hear there's an option of three games for eight quarters going to be available. No word on what brand of coin acceptors are included.

#11170 14 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Great question....at $8500 it was a slam dunk. then it was $10000 and there I think was the sweet spot. Now that its $12500, its at a ultra high end collector edition price but is a mass produced inaugural game from an unproven company with no (obvious) business plan moving forward...
And what are the new code features?

Pricing will be interesting. Will all 350ish new games sell for $12,500 or will demand drop off and the price get cut?

Would Barry do a version without the lower playfield and make it virtual bowling instead in order to sell it at a lower price point? Will there be demand for TBLs without the bowling mechanism?

#11171 14 days ago

At $12.5k for a rare novelty, sure that makes sense. As a run of 500 it starts to lose a little luster at that price. The business model should support mass production at a lower price if they can actually pull off a viable business model. Agreed a low price option with no bowling alley (back at 8500 perhaps?) becomes compelling.

#11172 14 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

If another 500 of these do go out into the world, is it still a $12,500 game?

by the time they get to 500 games shipped maybe $12.5k will be the going price for all NIB Pinball.

Yes - It's worth $12,500

#11173 14 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

At $12.5k for a rare novelty, sure that makes sense. As a run of 500 it starts to lose a little luster at that price. The business model should support mass production at a lower price if they can actually pull off a viable business model. Agreed a low price option with no bowling alley (back at 8500 perhaps?) becomes compelling.

Not sure myself. I think cutting features from the game would be a poor business decision. As for the 500, as a single model option with code still slowly rolling and a strong cult following I think it’s a better bet then 500 CE Wonka’s at 12.5k personally. Time will tell and while DP is a sad story the game is rather amazing if you like the theme. Well done.

-1
#11174 14 days ago

EAs that joined the list towards the end paid $9,500. I doubt we'll see $8,500 again.

Would TBLs that don't have the lower playfield, chrome trim, or rug sell at $9,500?

A possible way to keep demand up at $12,500 would be to create limited editions with different translites. Jesus Edition, Walter Edition, Dude Edition, etc.

#11175 14 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Not sure myself. I think cutting features from the game would be a poor business decision. As for the 500, as a single model option with code still slowly rolling and a strong cult following I think it’s a better bet then 500 CE Wonka’s at 12.5k personally. Time will tell and while DP is a sad story the game is rather amazing if you like the theme. Well done.

I had a deposit down for a WWCF CE and was underwhelmed when it was revealed. I don't see JJP selling 500 of them at $12,500.

Back out the EAs from the 500 and maybe there would be enough TBL demand at $12,500.

#11176 13 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

Would Barry do a version without the lower playfield and make it virtual bowling instead in order to sell it at a lower price point? Will there be demand for TBLs without the bowling mechanism?

Personally I'd prefer a well done simulated bowling feature than the mech... at least you can get a strike from a split in simulated bowling... and even apply some spin and adjust speed and ball weight...

#11177 13 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

From the payment they received for the ten games they've apparently shipped so far:

Plus I guess anyone outside the US that's been daft enough to give preorder money directly to DP.

No more pre-order money. You pay when game is ready to ship

#11178 13 days ago

Yep, Cointaker in the US collects the $12,500 and sends it to DP when shipped.

For other orders outside of the US you pay DP when the game is ready to be shipped.

#11179 13 days ago

The last newsletter certainly seems pretty positive, and gives some hope that this could get done.

I do wonder how many games they can sell at $12,500?

I had a deposit with Nitro that got refunded years ago, and I'm tempted now to call Cointaker, but I think I'll wait and see if they continue to update the code and get it to 1.0

I really hope it works out. I think it's a great game.

#11180 13 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I think it’s a better bet then 500 CE Wonka’s at 12.5k personally.

What are the actual sales of CE games though? I think it’s a fraction of the actual limit.

#11181 13 days ago

CEs started shipping this month. Haven't seen sales numbers.

#11182 13 days ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

The last newsletter certainly seems pretty positive, and gives some hope that this could get done.
I do wonder how many games they can sell at $12,500?
I had a deposit with Nitro that got refunded years ago, and I'm tempted now to call Cointaker, but I think I'll wait and see if they continue to update the code and get it to 1.0
I really hope it works out. I think it's a great game.

I believe shipping is extra so really your looking at $13,000 shipped to the US

#11183 13 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

Back out the EAs from the 500 and maybe there would be enough TBL demand at $12,500.

This is what makes it so difficult to guess at the demand. One can reasonably assume that many, perhaps the majority, of the biggest TBL fans are already in as EA's. Therefore, your market of TBL zealots, who would pay $12,500 has been significantly reduced.

#11184 13 days ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I believe shipping is extra so really your looking at $13,000 shipped to the US

For US customers, $12,500 includes shipping.

#11185 13 days ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

This is what makes it so difficult to guess at the demand. One can reasonably assume that many, perhaps the majority, of the biggest TBL fans are already in as EA's. Therefore, your market of TBL zealots, who would pay $12,500 has been significantly reduced.

That's why Barry should consider limited editions with different translites and aprons to keep the price point at $12,500. Jesus Edition, Donny Edition, Walter Edition, The Dude Edition, etc. If 500 total TBLs have to be produced (135 of which are paid for EA machines) that leaves 365 at $12,500 each.

Sell as many at $12,500 and when demand drops, introduce the limited editions. He could probably sell 50 Dudes and 50 Jesus. Walter and Donny could be 25 to 50 each.

There's probably enough demand at $12,500 for 200 TBLs before offering the limited editions to reach a total of 365 new money TBLs.

#11186 13 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

That's why Barry should consider limited editions with different translites and aprons to keep the price point at $12,500. Jesus Edition, Donny Edition, Walter Edition, The Dude Edition, etc. If 500 total TBLs have to be produced (135 of which are paid for EA machines) that leaves 365 at $12,500 each.
Sell as many at $12,500 and when demand drops, introduce the limited editions. He could probably sell 50 Dudes and 50 Jesus. Walter and Donny could be 25 to 50 each.
There's probably enough demand at $12,500 for 200 TBLs before offering the limited editions to reach a total of 365 new money TBLs.

I like your idea of creating different translites/editions but feel that at $12.5k, there is a limited market (maybe 50 people in total) for any version of TBL. As there may be enough parts to build 25 complete games now, expect those to be offered first and for the missing parts order to be unsuccessful. Sorry to be a Downer, but as soon as DP builds the last TBL's with existing parts, they will be finished, along with the dream. There was never any way DP could build and sell 400+ plus TBL at $12.5k.

#11187 13 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

That's why Barry should consider limited editions with different translites and aprons to keep the price point at $12,500. Jesus Edition, Donny Edition, Walter Edition, The Dude Edition, etc. If 500 total TBLs have to be produced (135 of which are paid for EA machines) that leaves 365 at $12,500 each.
Sell as many at $12,500 and when demand drops, introduce the limited editions. He could probably sell 50 Dudes and 50 Jesus. Walter and Donny could be 25 to 50 each.
There's probably enough demand at $12,500 for 200 TBLs before offering the limited editions to reach a total of 365 new money TBLs.

Well thought out plan but do remember we are talking about a company that had thousands of parts to build a Single model and failed the task now your suggesting they add Many new BOM skews as if they would be more successful with a complicated project. Lol. Keep it simple is the best coarse of action. Even if Barry does them old school one at a time himself. Just an opinion.

#11188 13 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

Back out the EAs from the 500 and maybe there would be enough TBL demand at $12,500.

Right, if DP’s numbers reflect reality, they need to sell 265-365 games at $12,500. Still a fair question if that’s doable.

#11189 13 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

Sell as many at $12,500 and when demand drops, introduce the limited editions. He could probably sell 50 Dudes and 50 Jesus. Walter and Donny could be 25 to 50 each.
There's probably enough demand at $12,500 for 200 TBLs before offering the limited editions to reach a total of 365 new money TBLs.

Well DP did sell ARA's 40 "Nihilists Editions" to new buyers. On another note... who's the Jesus edition going to be for -- 8 year olds?

#11190 13 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

EAs that joined the list towards the end paid $9,500. I doubt we'll see $8,500 again.
Would TBLs that don't have the lower playfield, chrome trim, or rug sell at $9,500?
A possible way to keep demand up at $12,500 would be to create limited editions with different translites. Jesus Edition, Walter Edition, Dude Edition, etc.

Someone had mentioned a while back that the bowling alley mech cost something like $1600 ++

#11191 13 days ago

Good to see them making progress. Maybe they should have done it this way from the start.

#11192 13 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Good to see them making progress. Maybe they should have done it this way from the start.

He's getting paid by the hour

#11193 13 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Personally I'd prefer a well done simulated bowling feature than the mech... at least you can get a strike from a split in simulated bowling... and even apply some spin and adjust speed and ball weight...

While I prefer the mechanical bowling feature, if a video bowling element were to be implemented, I would hope that it would mimic Namco's wonderful 2006 Rockin' Bowl-O-Rama.

Namco's Bowl-O-Rama was ahead of its time. The developers consulted with professional bowlers in creating a very realistic bowling experience. The player uses a track ball to both spin and control ball acceleration.

Splits can be made. Ball weight can be selected. The options add to the challenge. It's the best bowling simulator out there, all of these years later. Below is a brief video link demo.

#11194 13 days ago

I have a Nampo Bowl-O-Rama. Cool game. They’re still out there, find one while you can!

Added 12 days ago:

Opps, I meant “Namco”. LOL!

Added 12 days ago:

I meant “Namco”. LOL!

#11195 12 days ago

Just curious....are there going to be any differences in the new games being made now vs what's out in the world already?

#11196 12 days ago

In principal they are the same.

However, doing assembly now 100% themselves they see some chances to simplify production while maintaining quality and some changes will be made in the not to distant future.. Like replacing the cable harness for the bowling alley with a simplified version plus a PCB. All minor stuff as I understood and backwards compatible.

#11197 12 days ago
Quoted from Rensh:

In principal they are the same.
However, doing assembly now 100% themselves they see some chances to simplify production while maintaining quality and some changes will be made in the not to distant future.. Like replacing the cable harness for the bowling alley with a simplified version plus a PCB. All minor stuff as I understood and backwards compatible.

Nice, thank you

#11198 12 days ago
Quoted from benheck:

Good to see them making progress. Maybe they should have done it this way from the start.

It's amazing how much one can accomplish without all those pesky Chinese holidays.

"oh sorry, can't make it tomorrow. it's uh.. um, national dragon day. Big holiday.".

#11199 12 days ago
Quoted from s1500:

It's amazing how much one can accomplish without all those pesky Chinese holidays.
"oh sorry, can't make it tomorrow. it's uh.. um, national dragon day. Big holiday.".

Yeah! Here in America our new year is one day of being hung over then we get back to work.

#11200 12 days ago
Quoted from s1500:

It's amazing how much one can accomplish without all those pesky Chinese holidays.
"oh sorry, can't make it tomorrow. it's uh.. um, national dragon day. Big holiday.".

"Chinese holidays"???

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