(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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There are 11296 posts in this topic. You are on page 223 of 226.
#11101 39 days ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

[quoted image]

You skipped TARFU, which often follows SNAFU but always proceeds FUBAR.

#11102 39 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

He can blog post all he wants, only thing that's going to convince anyone of anything at this point is games getting shipped in decent numbers and on a recurring basis.

Showing progress always counters 'lack of information so we make up our own'.

No one believes he's going to do 40 games a month...so there is little harm in proving slow and steady progress. The problem is DP has had from the beginning... if the information isn't 'SUPER JACKPOT!!' they don't want to say anything at all. This leads to the feast/famine cycle that just breeds even more discontent even if things were all doing fine. Instead of seeing it as a bottom out, and now trying to rebuild confidence.. they are just doing the same thing that worked SO WELL for them before...

#11103 39 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Showing progress always counters 'lack of information so we make up our own'.
No one believes he's going to do 40 games a month...so there is little harm in proving slow and steady progress. The problem is DP has had from the beginning... if the information isn't 'SUPER JACKPOT!!' they don't want to say anything at all. This leads to the feast/famine cycle that just breeds even more discontent even if things were all doing fine. Instead of seeing it as a bottom out, and now trying to rebuild confidence.. they are just doing the same thing that worked SO WELL for them before...

I'm not so sure -- given the past history, who is going to believe more words from DP at this point? If they actually have the wherewithal to produce games, just produce the games already and that will speak for itself.

#11104 39 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I'm not so sure -- given the past history, who is going to believe more words from DP at this point? If they actually have the wherewithal to produce games, just produce the games already and that will speak for itself.

Thats why he stated that Barry could post some pics of games being built.

#11105 38 days ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Ahh yeah, that's fair. I mean there are less than 100 TBLs in the wild, right? Plus how many of those are actually on route. But hopefully DP will find a way to actually keep making more.

Block yourself a lot of time over there at Tilt because you may have issue getting on that machine. When I went there it was held down by a couple for over an hour. I was like a little kid on Christmas that didn't get the hot new toy when I was having to play the other games there not knowing if I would have enough time to play TBL before I had to take off. I was finally able to play 2 games once they moved to another machine. Would have been nice to have got a better fill on it but at least I'm not too far away to give it another go.

#11106 38 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Thats why he stated that Barry could post some pics of games being built.

If DP is able to ship a game or two a week, then who cares about some pictures of a half-assembled game?

And conversely, if DP isn't shipping any games, then who cares about some pictures of a half-assembled game?

#11107 37 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

If DP is able to ship a game or two a week, then who cares about some pictures of a half-assembled game?
And conversely, if DP isn't shipping any games, then who cares about some pictures of a half-assembled game?

I guess you are right, Since they aren't shipping and aren't posting pics, there is zero progress.

#11108 34 days ago

Are any machines still going out? Finally got to play it this weekend at Tilt in the Twin Cities. It was fun, but the shots were hard enough, and the drains brutal enough, that I'd probably want to have it at home in order to really to see everything it has to offer, or I'd have to spend some major time and cash on location with it. If machines were still actually being made, then it would greatly increase my chances of owning one someday.

Quoted from vwallat99:

Block yourself a lot of time over there at Tilt because you may have issue getting on that machine. When I went there it was held down by a couple for over an hour. I was like a little kid on Christmas that didn't get the hot new toy when I was having to play the other games there not knowing if I would have enough time to play TBL before I had to take off. I was finally able to play 2 games once they moved to another machine. Would have been nice to have got a better fill on it but at least I'm not too far away to give it another go.

Ha! When I was there this weekend, I'm pretty sure the same couple was hogging it too! They were on it for at least an hour when I was there, but luckily I still got to play when they finished. (My wife helped me keep an eye out, while I had my back to it playing Wonka) In fact, some of the time the couple just seemed to be talking intimately to each other, and like caressing the machine and stuff. Kinda weird, but hey I get it. If I owned a TBL, I'd probably caress it.

#11109 34 days ago
Quoted from vwallat99:

Block yourself a lot of time over there at Tilt because you may have issue getting on that machine. When I went there it was held down by a couple for over an hour. I was like a little kid on Christmas that didn't get the hot new toy when I was having to play the other games there not knowing if I would have enough time to play TBL before I had to take off.

Quoted from DakotaMike:

Ha! When I was there this weekend, I'm pretty sure the same couple was hogging it too! They were on it for at least an hour when I was there, but luckily I still got to play when they finished.

Us folks in the midwest are too polite, if they're knowledgeable enough to know to check out TBL, they know camping on the hot new thang is a d move and should have freed up the game after a few if you're hovering. I go with a polite "ope, can I play when you're done with your credits?", and can kinda get less polite thereafter, haha. Play a few, free it up. Sharing is caring!

#11110 34 days ago

Lol probably the same couple. Big tall dude with a beard? They were drinking white russians while playing when I was there. Think they said they named their dog donny as well. Big Lebowski fans for sure and had a good chat with them after I got on the machine.

Quoted from wlf_:

Us folks in the midwest are too polite, if they're knowledgeable enough to know to check out TBL, they know camping on the hot new thang is a d move and should have freed up the game after a few if you're hovering. I go with a polite "ope, can I play when you're done with your credits?", and can kinda get less polite thereafter, haha. Play a few, free it up. Sharing is caring!

When I saw they were hovering over and not really playing I had asked if I could jump in on it and struck a good conversation with them. Good people and I had gave them the rundown on the big deal of a machine it was since they weren't caught up on this fiasco.

#11111 34 days ago
Quoted from wlf_:

Us folks in the midwest are too polite, if they're knowledgeable enough to know to check out TBL, they know camping on the hot new thang is a d move and should have freed up the game after a few if you're hovering. I go with a polite "ope, can I play when you're done with your credits?", and can kinda get less polite thereafter, haha. Play a few, free it up. Sharing is caring!

Can we still put up quarters???!!!!!!

#11112 28 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

So its been over a month since this game was delivered. Have there been any other batches since barry went in-house?

#11113 28 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

So its been over a month since this game was delivered. Have there been any other batches since barry went in-house?

What was the special extras included and have they been received?

#11114 28 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

So its been over a month since this game was delivered. Have there been any other batches since barry went in-house?

There is a wholenother thread going on which detail the many unboxings and thrilled costumers.

www.kidding.com/TBL_unboxings

Its going to be shutdown, due to lack of replies.

#11115 24 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Can we still put up quarters???!!!!!!

Ha I tried to do this recently and the dude was like all aggro and would not let that aggression stand. It wasn't on a TBL though...

#11116 24 days ago
Quoted from genex:

Ha I tried to do this recently and the dude was like all aggro and would not let that aggression stand.

He obviously knows nothing about pinball (excuse the expression) etiquette.

#11117 24 days ago

Have the pinball Oracle from "Madison" explain it to him.

#11118 24 days ago

Don't worry, my Dutch is OK.
ATampT-Wireless-Just-OK-TV-Commercial-Translator (resized).jpg

#11119 24 days ago

So should we lower our expectations from 'how can he do 50 games a month..' to 'how can he get past 2 games previously partially completed games completed?'

#11120 24 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

So should we lower our expectations from 'how can he do 50 games a month..' to 'how can he get past 2 games previously partially completed games completed?'

10 BUILT FROM SCRATCH games have gone out.

#11121 24 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

10 BUILT FROM SCRATCH games have gone out.

To who? Where? Where is the list? Who is facilitating the sales? European direct sale or overseas thru cointaker?

#11122 24 days ago

There are 3 of us in the private EA only thread that will be getting TBLs in the next few weeks. Facilitated by Melissa at Cointaker.

#11123 24 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

10 BUILT FROM SCRATCH games have gone out.

well that's why I asked the question 4 days ago.. and got crickets... where are all these happy new owners?

#11124 24 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

well that's why I asked the question 4 days ago.. and got crickets... where are all these happy new owners?

I asked the same things days ago as well. Unless they are just all going to non-pinsiders? Cuz if they were on pinside, you'd think they'd wanna post about getting their TBLs.

#11125 24 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

There are 3 of us in the private EA only thread that will be getting TBLs in the next few weeks. Facilitated by Melissa at Cointaker.

Did you have to pay 12500 plus tax/shipping?

Or are these the original ones you paid for?

#11126 24 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Did you have to pay 12500 plus tax/shipping?
Or are these the original ones you paid for?

Yeah...for us bystanders and all the big question is how many pins will be sold at $12,500 before one fricken EA gets the damn pin they paid for years ago???

#11127 24 days ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Did you have to pay 12500 plus tax/shipping?
Or are these the original ones you paid for?

These are not the original ones. This is a second TBL for $12,500 which includes shipping. I'm at the very end of the EA list so I quickly replied to Barry when he sent the email a while back about the opportunity to buy a second TBL now and either get my original TBL when it's produced later or receive a refund.

Since I jumped on the EA list at the end, my cost was $9,500 and I'd pay for shipping. Worse case, I'll have an expensive TBL, but I'll have one if Barry isn't able to finish production of all EA machines due to finances. I'm hopeful that all EA TBLs will be built. If so, I'm paying about a $2,600 risk avoidance premium to have my TBL now and enjoy it now.

Hopefully all will go well and I'll get the refund for my original TBL around the same time that JJP announces Toy Story.

#11128 23 days ago

Actually you are paying $12,500 now for a game and hoping to get a rebate someday. But at least you are getting a game now.

Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

These are not the original ones. This is a second TBL for $12,500 which includes shipping. I'm at the very end of the EA list so I quickly replied to Barry when he sent the email a while back about the opportunity to buy a second TBL now and either get my original TBL when it's produced later or receive a refund.
Since I jumped on the EA list at the end, my cost was $9,500 and I'd pay for shipping. Worse case, I'll have an expensive TBL, but I'll have one if Barry isn't able to finish production of all EA machines due to finances. I'm hopeful that all EA TBLs will be built. If so, I'm paying about a $2,600 risk avoidance premium to have my TBL now and enjoy it now.
Hopefully all will go well and I'll get the refund for my original TBL around the same time that JJP announces Toy Story.

#11129 23 days ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Actually you are paying $12,500 now for a game and hoping to get a rebate someday. But at least you are getting a game now.

I realize that. That's why I said this above, "Worse case, I'll have an expensive TBL, but I'll have one if Barry isn't able to finish production of all EA machines due to finances."

#11130 23 days ago

Sorry, excuse my tone and enjoy your game. You've certainly earned it.

Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

I realize that. That's why I said this above, "Worse case, I'll have an expensive TBL, but I'll have one if Barry isn't able to finish production of all EA machines due to finances."

#11131 23 days ago

No worries brother, it’s all good.

#11132 23 days ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

Hopefully all will go well and I'll get the refund for my original TBL around the same time that JJP announces Toy Story.

I'm hoping this happens for you. And in the meantime, at least you're getting a Lebowski (finally)! It's a sweet game, lots of fun to play and a beauty to look at. May it bring you many hours of enjoyment.

#11133 22 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I'm hoping this happens for you. And in the meantime, at least you're getting a Lebowski (finally)! It's a sweet game, lots of fun to play and a beauty to look at. May it bring you many hours of enjoyment.

Thanks. I was so far back on the EA list, that I felt this was the way to go to make sure I get a TBL. Hopeful that all EAs will get their TBLs.

-4
#11134 22 days ago

10 cash games is great !!!!

DP needs that money to build It’s next title

#11135 22 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

10 cash games is great !!!!
DP needs that money to build It’s next title

They need the money to finish their current model.

#11136 22 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

They need the money to finish their current model.

Exactly. I don't know how big of a market there is for the TBL at $12,500 but I'd rather have a TBL for $12,500 than a WWCF CE at $12,500.

I'd like to think that 300 to 400 new games at $12,500 would result in all EA games getting built. Hopefully the demand at $12,500 per TBL will be there. Would Barry consider offering TBLs down the line that don't have chrome trim, rug, and bowling ally lower playfield? If he did, he could sell that version at a lower price point.

#11137 22 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

They need the money to finish their current model.

They need money to pay salary, as is required by law over there, apparently.

#11138 22 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

They need money to pay salary, as is required by law over there, apparently.

That was another one of the lies they told while they were living off of our preoder money.

#11139 22 days ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

That was another one of the lies they told while they were living off of our preoder money.

You can think of it whatever you want, but that isn't a lie. Tax authorities may make exceptions though.
https://www.bvbeginnen.nl/dga-salaris/

But ontopic: I think it's great that 10 new games have been made. I hope they'll succeed and all EAs will have their games as well (eventually).

#11140 21 days ago

does anyone have any actual proof of these new 10 games? All of this is apparently happening under some ridiculous cloak of secrecy.

If I want to sell a bunch of products to an enthusiastic but skeptical audience ( due to my own missteps) I would be OVER communicative in every conceivable way....this is just more nonsense.

Show proof of production
Show proof of a facility
Show proof of a production staff (if there is one...)
Show proof of new owners receiving games
Show progress of the business model in action

Anything? Anything???

#11141 21 days ago
Quoted from sven:

You can think of it whatever you want, but that isn't a lie. Tax authorities may make exceptions though.
https://www.bvbeginnen.nl/dga-salaris/

Holy Hell, that's crazy. Here's the upshots from google translate:

DGA receives mandatory salary
The tax authorities have determined that a minimum salary must be paid.... more is allowed, but many DGAs choose to pay exactly this minimum. The reason is that the less salary is paid, the less costs there are for the company, and the more money the company has left from the profit.

Then the second part comes in. Because as a DGA you are also a shareholder, and if there is money left over you can choose to pay this as a dividend to the shareholders. So to you. Dividend tax has a flat tax, which is lower than the income tax. This is the reason that DGAs opt for a minimum salary. If you are both a director and sole shareholder, you pay less tax as a shareholder than if you had paid it as a director's salary.

Minimum salary of the DGA
The minimum salary is set annually. In 2017 this is at least 45,000 euros and must also be at least 70% for what would be customary in that position. For start-ups, this can have a major impact on operating profit, but the tax authorities are quite strict about this. As soon as it is possible, they expect this salary. Sometimes it is of course really not possible.

That may be the case with starting companies. For example at companies that put a lot of time and money into a product that is yet to be launched. You then perform work for which an R&D statement has been issued. A lot is then invested while it is uncertain whether this will ever be earned back. If the company makes a loss, it is clear that you do not want to circumvent income tax by paying out money as a dividend, and it is more likely that the tax authorities will agree to a (temporary) lower salary.

At startup, employees can (temporarily) earn more
The tax authorities not only look at profit, but also at the market and business situation. For example, the tax authorities also pay attention to the salary that you pay to people you employ. In principle, your salary must then be at least as high as the salary of the most earning employee in the BV. If it has unique characteristics and qualities to get the company off the starting blocks, an exception can be made temporarily. This may be the case with startups, where employees have specific knowledge that you do not have in the first instance.

The minimum salary also applies if you were to receive a higher salary for comparable work in paid employment. You can therefore choose to pay yourself a lower salary, but then you will have to convince the accountant who reviews the financial statements and the tax authorities that this is necessary and in line with the market. The money may not really be there and your salary must be in proportion to the work that you do. You only pay less because you can also easily pay the rent with less money, or if you have sufficient other sources of income and want to keep this money in the BV, usually does not work.

~~~~
Wow. So for all the effups that delayed the release of the game, dragging it out year over year over year, that was around ~40 to 45K eruo (was it lower in 2014) per year. Easily a quarter of a million through the duration, mandated to be paid not TO, but BY the government. What kind of inverse tax-avoidance is this? Sounds like it was cooked up in Amsterdam

#11143 19 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

does anyone have any actual proof of these new 10 games? All of this is apparently happening under some ridiculous cloak of secrecy.
If I want to sell a bunch of products to an enthusiastic but skeptical audience ( due to my own missteps) I would be OVER communicative in every conceivable way....this is just more nonsense.
Show proof of production
Show proof of a facility
Show proof of a production staff (if there is one...)
Show proof of new owners receiving games
Show progress of the business model in action
Anything? Anything???

FWIW to you, I visited DP several times in the past 3 weeks and a facility is there, two new produced TBLs sat in a box awaiting payment, plenty of parts were present, playfields were on tippers and worked upon, new cabinets were stickered, etc. I leave pictures to the upcoming NSN.

And it is up to new owners to report receiving games, not DP. Some people are paranoia enough here that if DP would report it it would be seen as fake news.....

#11144 19 days ago
Quoted from Rensh:

I leave pictures to the upcoming NSN.
And it is up to new owners to report receiving games, not DP. Some people are paranoia enough here that if DP would report it it would be seen as fake news.....

You know they say a picture is worth 1000 words.

2m2qc9 (resized).jpg

-3
#11145 19 days ago

Hé Rensh, help us out...

Ain’t pre-order money a loan?
And all marketing parties where cost?
Then there was no profit and no dividend?
Could accountant be convinced?
Salary needs to be paid from loan?
Wierd, would like to know who did there finances?

#11146 19 days ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

Holy Hell, that's crazy. Here's the upshots from google translate:
DGA receives mandatory salary
The tax authorities have determined that a minimum salary must be paid.... more is allowed, but many DGAs choose to pay exactly this minimum. The reason is that the less salary is paid, the less costs there are for the company, and the more money the company has left from the profit.
Then the second part comes in. Because as a DGA you are also a shareholder, and if there is money left over you can choose to pay this as a dividend to the shareholders. So to you. Dividend tax has a flat tax, which is lower than the income tax. This is the reason that DGAs opt for a minimum salary. If you are both a director and sole shareholder, you pay less tax as a shareholder than if you had paid it as a director's salary.
Minimum salary of the DGA
The minimum salary is set annually. In 2017 this is at least 45,000 euros and must also be at least 70% for what would be customary in that position. For start-ups, this can have a major impact on operating profit, but the tax authorities are quite strict about this. As soon as it is possible, they expect this salary. Sometimes it is of course really not possible.
That may be the case with starting companies. For example at companies that put a lot of time and money into a product that is yet to be launched. You then perform work for which an R&D statement has been issued. A lot is then invested while it is uncertain whether this will ever be earned back. If the company makes a loss, it is clear that you do not want to circumvent income tax by paying out money as a dividend, and it is more likely that the tax authorities will agree to a (temporary) lower salary.
At startup, employees can (temporarily) earn more
The tax authorities not only look at profit, but also at the market and business situation. For example, the tax authorities also pay attention to the salary that you pay to people you employ. In principle, your salary must then be at least as high as the salary of the most earning employee in the BV. If it has unique characteristics and qualities to get the company off the starting blocks, an exception can be made temporarily. This may be the case with startups, where employees have specific knowledge that you do not have in the first instance.
The minimum salary also applies if you were to receive a higher salary for comparable work in paid employment. You can therefore choose to pay yourself a lower salary, but then you will have to convince the accountant who reviews the financial statements and the tax authorities that this is necessary and in line with the market. The money may not really be there and your salary must be in proportion to the work that you do. You only pay less because you can also easily pay the rent with less money, or if you have sufficient other sources of income and want to keep this money in the BV, usually does not work.
~~~~
Wow. So for all the effups that delayed the release of the game, dragging it out year over year over year, that was around ~40 to 45K eruo (was it lower in 2014) per year. Easily a quarter of a million through the duration, mandated to be paid not TO, but BY the government. What kind of inverse tax-avoidance is this? Sounds like it was cooked up in Amsterdam

We have similar laws here in the US for S-corps. Owners must receive a "reasonable salary" for the services they provide to the company.

#11147 19 days ago
Quoted from JustEverett:

We have similar laws here in the US for S-corps. Owners must receive a "reasonable salary" for the services they provide to the company.

But US does not carry a mandated minimum salary. Company A brings in zero dollars one year and pays themselves zero. Company B has $250k in sales, $240k in costs and declares $10k in salary. Both companies look fine and are nothing like the situation being compared to oversees whereby both companies would have paid $90k in salary or gone out of business.

17
#11148 17 days ago
Quoted from Time:

You know they say a picture is worth 1000 words.
[quoted image]

F0909F15-6D98-4937-9CBA-59C24F2AA527 (resized).jpeg
#11149 17 days ago

And there is more where that came from!

DP Will be releasing an update to the EA’s very soon.

#11150 17 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

And there is more where that came from!
DP Will be releasing an update to the EA’s very soon.

It is far MORE important to release an update to the NON-EA general pinball buying pubic considering that the only path forward for this company and this game is NEW money from NEW buyers...an update to EA's is pointless as unless they are willing to cough up another $12.5k to get in line for a game now, they still have very little chance of ever getting the game.

This whole strategy is so ass-backwards...

Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see that photo but seriously....get a clue!! Barry needs new buyers, like me, to gain confidence and understanding in this whole thing, not continue to blow smoke up the EA's asses..

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