(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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#10701 8 days ago

Well throw a bunch more money at the problem... surely nothing will go wrong.

-2
#10702 8 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

just build them and don't worry about the future..."

Why do you put these words in speech marks as though you're quoting me?? I never said "don't worry about the future"... I'm saying don't waste time calculating accurate schedules that will inevitably be inaccurate, but instead do what actually helps get the games made... I don't want or need to know which month my number 113 will be made, I just want him to do the stuff that actually helps him get to build it... I dont see how publicising inaccurate schedules helps... or even accurate ones for that matter...

#10703 8 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

to the guy who failed previously because they failed to properly plan their schedule and expenses...

Fascinating.

I don't think the failures we saw previously were due to failing to publicise a schedule... I think the main problem was not having a water-tight contract with ARA, and the bad decision to try and start up again in China before ARA were out of the picture... not inefficient or un-transparent scheduling...

Maybe you're right though... maybe it was lack of accurate and transparent scheduling that screwed them up...

#10704 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Just for the record, I am not Barry.

Are you really in Czech Republic?

#10705 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Just for the record, I am not Barry.

My apology I wrongfully assumed your roughly 300 posts on the DP subject and location might assume you had some connection. My bad sorry.

#10706 8 days ago

Remember the joke about 'how do you tell if a politician is lying?...his lips are moving'. I always tell people, "how do you know if I'm being sarcastic/a smart ass? My lips are moving"

First, I admit to an unreasonable bias towards planning, having been in the software, PM, pgm mgmt and consulting arena for many years. That being said, there are actually studies that support my anecdotal findings around the value of planning. Yeah, it takes a lot longer to start producing something, but the reduction in redesign, rework and quality issues more than make up for the initial 'delay'.

That for me, and what I thought benheck was referring to, is the most troubling aspect of this next phase. There doesn't appear to be a well thought out detailed plan in place. Now I could be way off and DP may have one that Barry just doesn't choose to share; however, the lack of a detailed plan coupled with past history doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

#10707 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

I don't think the failures we saw previously were due to failing to publicise a schedule... I think the main problem was not having a water-tight contract with ARA, and the bad decision to try and start up again in China before ARA were out of the picture... not inefficient or un-transparent scheduling...

It is pretty apparent that the funds were dried up so there was no way forward.

#10708 8 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

My apology I wrongfully assumed your roughly 300 posts on the DP subject and location might assume you had some connection. My bad sorry.

Oh I have a connection all right... he has a lot of my money and I want a pinball for it, which I hope he's going to make...

Quoted from DCFAN:

Are you really in Czech Republic?

At the moment I'm in Spain, but yes, I live in the Czech Republic...

Quoted from Oldgoat:

There doesn't appear to be a well thought out detailed plan in place. Now I could be way off and DP may have one that Barry just doesn't choose to share;

He has a plan of course, the level of detail is speculative... I'm sure he's trying the get a balance between the depth of detail and the time it takes to go that deep so that ultimately the games progress at the quickest rate... wishful thinking... probably... but banging on about wanting to see a plan which may go wrong anyway, and therefore piss people off and waste time doesn't seem worthwhile to me... personally... but I'm an engineer, not a planner... different mind set I guess...

#10709 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Why do you put these words in speech marks as though you're quoting me?? I never said "don't worry about the future"

It's called 'paraphrasing' - context makes that obvious.

Quoted from pinballslave:

I'm saying don't waste time calculating accurate schedules that will inevitably be inaccurate, but instead do what actually helps get the games made... I don't want or need to know which month my number 113 will be made, I just want him to do the stuff that actually helps him get to build it... I dont see how publicising inaccurate schedules helps... or even accurate ones for that matter...

That's why we use the term ESTIMATES. It's not about exact precision - it's about PLANNING to ensure success. If you need parts that need a 6 week leadtime... you don't wait until you need them to order them. To know you need to order them, you need to know you don't have them. To know you don't have them you need to inventory. To know when you'll need something, you need a schedule. To know your schedule, you need to estimate activities and time.

It's what project management is all about.

To even promise he can give refunds or EA games away he need to know he'll have the money to fund those builds. To have money, one needs to estimate your margins. To estimate margins, you need to realistically estimate costs. To know costs, you need time estimates.

None of this comes from "just get on with building..." -- All that does is set you up for delays and eventual failure.

Barry's entire problem was running out of money. Running out of money is a consequence of poor planning and execution. And you're advocating that planning is a waste of time.. just start building. It's naive and given DP's past failures... comical.

The rising costs with ARA wasn't because ARA had a loophole to screw DP and they were greedy... ARA was not just an assembly partner for DP - they were codeveloping the product with DP. DP failed to account for the time and money it took to take their prototype to an actual factory buildable machine.

#10710 8 days ago

As it appears only crazy plans were considered why not a plan "C".

As EA's already Paid for the parts he has, why not ask (beg) the EA's to pay only the inflation rate of $4k to put their games together and ship them? As he has the parts already it seems like that 4k for 50 games (assuming his mortgage isn't due) would be roughly 200k to buy more parts and rinse/repeat.

#10711 8 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It's called 'paraphrasing' - context makes that obvious.

Ah right... when I was at school I was taught the speech marks meant you were actually quoting someone word for word... my bad.

#10712 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

It's ok... I also thought it was a public thread... pointing out that you answered a question addressed to someone else with an answer that didn't answer the question does not imply that this is not a public thread... does it? Very odd logic around here at times...

You come in with your reasoning of the 6th EA who is still 6th after 5 people, and you ask for logic... Interesting !

#10713 8 days ago

It seems the only way that DP can even begin to get an estimate together is for Barry to build the first game with what he has on hand.

That will by necessity force a discovery and inventory of all parts. And then assuming certain bits are missing, what it will take to get them. And then once everything required is available, accounting for time and resources necessary to build a game. Until that happens, any detailed planning at this point is somewhere between a good-faith-estimate and wild-ass-guess based on conjecture based on a survey of a crowded warehouse full of hastily moved piles of boxes and parts.

I frankly (disclaimer, I'm not an EA) would not take ANY sort of "plan" from Barry seriously until the first game with ex-ARA parts is built and functional. That is the ONLY thing that will prove the viability of this project. The building of the game - or inability to do so for whatever reason - will true-up realities, costs, and needs to 2019, not 2014+hiatus perceptions.

So yes to some extent Barry should not waste time on guesstimated plans, and instead STFU and try to build a game. Maybe his head is in the right place. But he's got 3 trailerfuls of boxes of random parts and apparently no cabinets. So when he's done (or stuck), he can then properly figure out the plan for what it will take to successfully complete the rest of them.

TLDR: until "post-ARA game 1" is built, anything else from DP is a worthless word salad.

#10714 8 days ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

Remember the joke about 'how do you tell if a politician is lying?...his lips are moving'. I always tell people, "how do you know if I'm being sarcastic/a smart ass? My lips are moving"
First, I admit to an unreasonable bias towards planning, having been in the software, PM, pgm mgmt and consulting arena for many years. That being said, there are actually studies that support my anecdotal findings around the value of planning. Yeah, it takes a lot longer to start producing something, but the reduction in redesign, rework and quality issues more than make up for the initial 'delay'.
That for me, and what I thought benheck was referring to, is the most troubling aspect of this next phase. There doesn't appear to be a well thought out detailed plan in place. Now I could be way off and DP may have one that Barry just doesn't choose to share; however, the lack of a detailed plan coupled with past history doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Sure... agile vs waterfall (in software development). But manufacturing has its own needs above and beyond what we can get away with in software. Supply chain, inventory, labor scheduling, warehousing, etc.. all are things we don't deal with in the services or software worlds... but are backbreakers in the actual physical world.

Maybe a better analogy software/PM people would be familiar with would be deployments or rollouts. If you have a project that requires deploying new network gear, new firmware, and new applications over a number of sites... to do that successfully you actually have to plan the coordinated delivery and availability of each of those components at each of the sites... and the skilled labor to implement it. You don't tackle such projects with "just send some guy out there.. and he'll install what he has, and ask for more if it's not there...".

If you're doing it at home... sure you can afford to do that. If you're trying roll out to 200 sites nationwide by a deadline... you have to project plan the thing... even if it were to give an estimate of when you could do it, for what cost.

DP isn't looking to build pinball machines as a hobby - they are trying to build a LARGE number of machines in a short amount of time that requires a high output of units. You can't do that by just winging it. Certainly can't set a price that will result in success.

But what's the first thing DP has? A price.. without an execution plan he can share.. or that even passes the basic sniff test.

What could possibly go wrong...

#10715 8 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

"just get on with building..." -

I was also paraphrasing... obviously I don't mean just start pulling parts out of boxes and build machines... I mean do what's best to get things back on track but don't spend time publicising schedules of when each EA game will hit the streets...

#10716 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Ah right... when I was at school I was taught the speech marks meant you were actually quoting someone word for word... my bad.

Know what you learned afterwords in text only communications? That context matters and air quotes and quotes use the same characters... AMAZING!!!

themoreuknow.gif

#10717 8 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

You come in with your reasoning of the 6th EA who is still 6th after 5 people, and you ask for logic... Interesting !

Errr... yeah... if the 6th game goes to an EA he will get his game after the 5th person... 6 is after 5... that's basic maths logic to me... what am I missing here?

#10718 8 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

And then paying even more a second time in the hopes that you get both houses, meanwhile the realtor is just collecting commissions on every sale and calling it a good deed.

Savage, yet accurate.

-4
#10719 8 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Savage, yet accurate.

DP is the contractor, CT is the realtor.

#10720 8 days ago

If DP wants to gain some credibility with the EA's, he should allocate some of the games that he already has all the parts to produce, to the next in line EA's. Lets say he has enough parts to make another 40 games, he should sell 25 of them and use 15 to fulfill the next 15 EA's. There is no additional parts to pay for in fulfilling the next 40 games...that would then provide over $300k to buy more parts for the next batch of games. As an EA that is owed a game, I would be pissed if he sells all 40 without fulfilling any EA's.
Ed

#10721 8 days ago
Quoted from eharan:

If DP wants to gain some credibility with the EA's, he should allocate some of the games that he already has all the parts to produce, to the next in line EA's. Lets say he has enough parts to make another 40 games, he should sell 25 of them and use 15 to fulfill the next 15 EA's. There is no additional parts to pay for in fulfilling the next 40 games...that would then provide over $300k to buy more parts for the next batch of games. As an EA that is owed a game, I would be pissed if he sells all 40 without fulfilling any EA's.
Ed

Be ready to be (even more) pissed then. It doesn't sound like any of us EA's will start to get games for quite a while yet, unless we're willing to pay another $12,500 for a newly produced (2nd) one.

#10722 8 days ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

It doesn't sound like any of us EA's will start to get games for quite a while yet, unless we're willing to pay another $12,500 for a newly produced (2nd) one.

Where are you getting those sounds from?

#10723 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

At the moment I'm in Spain, but yes, I live in the Czech Republic...

I enjoy reading your posts-optimistic EAs are rare, maybe only a few! Do you have your games on location? This must be one of the largest collections in Europe.

#10724 8 days ago
Quoted from dts:

I enjoy reading your posts-optimistic EAs are rare, maybe only a few! Do you have your games on location? This must be one of the largest collections in Europe.

I guess my motivation for my 'non-condemning' posts comes from fear of losing a load of money... the only way I see out of this is if DP survive, so posts that condemn DP and rally enthusiasm for suing them (which would obviously kill them if successful) makes me see my hard earned cash vanishing... so I want to try and make that not happen by trying to shine a positive light on things... I guess... as for my collection, that's a bit of a bummer because they're pretty much ALL in storage!! 1 game is set up at my wife's flat, which we hardly go to because it's in another town 4hrs drive away, and another is set up in a friend's house... I've built a massive games room attached to my house that I've just finished renovating, but I'm not allowed to have a game in the actual renovated part of the house... and the pinball area is far from finished... "why should we have a game in the house when there's room for 100 games downstairs" is the argument... ah well, at least not having TBL yet avoids another frustration of not having that game set up to play!!

#10725 8 days ago

DP is the contractor and EA’s have paid a discounted amount in full to receive their deck soon. DP abruptly announces they will need to build and sell 500 additional premiere level decks first, prior to building the one you bought and paid for. The reason corporate requires this batch of games to be built before selling, is that finding 500 people stupid enough to pay for their decks upfront is hard. DP knows you gotta build decks to sell decks. Each one sold gets them one step closer to giving the first EA his game fingers crossed

#10726 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Where are you getting those sounds from?

Barry's email:

"Even though there is light at the end of the tunnel, there is still quite a challenge ahead before we will be able to deliver your game, the starting point of which is that Dutch Pinball needs to set up manufacturing again. This means that with the parts we have acquired from ARA recently we will first need to make games that we will have to sell that will give us the push we need to go into production. Furthermore, to keep production going, even when we are at the point where we can start to ship the games to you Early Achievers, we will still need to make games for selling in parallel with the EA games being made to keep the production going, or the finances will dry up and the lights will go out."

#10727 8 days ago

The big question is very simple - how many games need to be sold for each EA game being built? This detail is completely left out. Is it X sales for every EA to get a game... or is it the EAs get built totally last? He referenced “in parallel” so it sounds like the former but still... do the first 100 or 200 have to be all new sales?

Lots of ins and outs left to be explained.

I want to see every EA get their game but I’m fearful the market for $12k games isn’t as predicted. I hope I’m wrong. I’d love to own this game one day.

#10728 8 days ago
Quoted from brainmegaphone:

This detail is completely left out.

Sure... as is every detail that doesn't paint an uplifting picture from Barry

#10729 8 days ago
Quoted from MikeHogue:

The demand for this game is there.
As an EA I quickly emailed Barry willing to spend another $12,500 to get a game.
My game build is 158. Still outside the 25 to 40 games built from parts. EA must been all over this proposal! Will I ever see my game? Who knows, but if the funds keep coming in, it is possible.
All I can do is to try and be positive.

And rich. Who pays 20 large for a mass produced game(in theory) ?

Also, when is he going to give up this "dude" shtick. Give us real No Shit News, will real transparency and no shit.

Thirdly, if people this scheme will work, well ..... Get in line and front $12,500

#10730 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

I guess my motivation for my 'non-condemning' posts comes from fear of losing a load of money... the only way I see out of this is if DP survive, so posts that condemn DP and rally enthusiasm for suing them (which would obviously kill them if successful) makes me see my hard earned cash vanishing... so I want to try and make that not happen by trying to shine a positive light on things... I guess... as for my collection, that's a bit of a bummer because they're pretty much ALL in storage!! 1 game is set up at my wife's flat, which we hardly go to because it's in another town 4hrs drive away, and another is set up in a friend's house... I've built a massive games room attached to my house that I've just finished renovating, but I'm not allowed to have a game in the actual renovated part of the house... and the pinball area is far from finished... "why should we have a game in the house when there's room for 100 games downstairs" is the argument... ah well, at least not having TBL yet avoids another frustration of not having that game set up to play!!

Ah, the age old "throw good money after bad" gambit. Throwing good money at this project, will always be bad.. IMO

Also, why cant you setup your games in your dedicated game room, or your own house? No wonder im single lol. Logic and balls. A potent combo taking down western women daily.

-14
#10731 8 days ago

It is quite funny watching new buyers try to justify their complete lack of ethics and morality in order to make a few bucks. Humanity at its finest.

Fact is, if you buy a game from them you are directly stealing 8000$ from a fellow pinsider. And when you sell it for a profit, if you had a shred of empathy, you'd give the profit to someone who preordered the game and got screwed.

Make a mental list of all these people, because it's nobody you want to deal with online or off, ever. I wouldn't even play a game of pinball with 'em. Scumbags.

#10732 8 days ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

It is quite funny watching new buyers try to justify their complete lack of ethics and morality in order to make a few bucks. Humanity at its finest.
Fact is, if you buy a game from them you are directly stealing 8000$ from a fellow pinsider. And when you sell it for a profit, if you had a shred of empathy, you'd give the profit to someone who preordered the game and got screwed.
Make a mental list of all these people, because it's nobody you want to deal with online or off, ever. I wouldn't even play a game of pinball with 'em. Scumbags.

Pretty strong statements from someone who just joined 10 days ago... and donated on day 1 too... so nice of you.

#10733 8 days ago

I am unsure if this has been mentioned since this newsletter, but other then the EA’s, how many people are there left that:

A) Want this game.

B) would pay $12,500 for one.

The big fans of the game are EA’s. Other than them, who wants one? It’s a cult classic meaning non mainstream. Select fans, select buyers. The buyers spoke with there wallets years ago. How many people are left?

Maybe they are realizing this through the possible lack of demand through the distributers?

Just a thought.

#10734 8 days ago
Quoted from donkadelic:

It is quite funny watching new buyers try to justify their complete lack of ethics and morality in order to make a few bucks. Humanity at its finest.
Fact is, if you buy a game from them you are directly stealing 8000$ from a fellow pinsider. And when you sell it for a profit, if you had a shred of empathy, you'd give the profit to someone who preordered the game and got screwed.
Make a mental list of all these people, because it's nobody you want to deal with online or off, ever. I wouldn't even play a game of pinball with 'em. Scumbags.

I’m waving the BS flag.

#10735 8 days ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Ah, the age old "throw good money after bad" gambit. Throwing good money at this project, will always be bad.. IMO

You're only throwing good money after bad if you pay a lawyer to hunt DP down imo...

Quoted from Roostking:

Also, why cant you setup your games in your dedicated game room, or your own house?

Games room: because it needs a floor, own house because I live there with my wife and she says no... if I disobey there will be hell and I don't want to put the kids through that hell... I have to obey or the kids suffer... effectively they get used as a manipulation tool... nothing I can do about it...

There's a lot to be said for being single!!

Quoted from donkadelic:

Fact is, if you buy a game from them you are directly stealing 8000$ from a fellow pinsider.

With that logic, an EA buying one of these new games is stealing his own game... is that really theft if he steals from himself... we need rarehero to interject with his ramblings on that one hang on... donkadelic is a new account made since rarehero was ejected from this thread... and now donkadelic has a 7 day thread eject... 2+2 =

#10736 8 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

Games room: because it needs a floor, own house because I live there with my wife and she says no... if I disobey there will be hell and I don't want to put the kids through that hell... I have to obey or the kids suffer... effectively they get used as a manipulation tool... nothing I can do about it...
There's a lot to be said for being single!!

This is getting good, time for popcorn!

#10737 8 days ago

Happy wife, happy life. The wife can make life hell if they choose. I’ve learned to compromise and pick my battles. Must be working ‘cause I’m still married and have 50+ pins!

#10738 8 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

The wife can make life hell if they choose.

Oh yes... you can say that again!! I'm sure they're not all like that though... some amazing games there by the way!! What's Lexi Lightspeed like to play? Sorry for going ot...

#10739 7 days ago
Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

There is no ratio explained how these EA’s will get these games just that sometime within the 500.

This is a key point that needs emphasis. For sake of argument, let's use fosaisu 's numbers of 365 new paid games plus 135 pre-paid Early Achiever (EA) games. This is roughly a 3 : 1 ratio. One way to deliver these games would be to ship every fourth game to an EA. DP must have something in mind for how the EA games will be delivered and I think it's a fair request that they share their plan. That delivery order assumption is critical to measuring the progress made in delivering all the EA games.

#10740 7 days ago
Quoted from KerryImming:

For sake of argument, let's use fosaisu 's numbers of 365 new paid games plus 135 pre-paid Early Achiever (EA) games. This is roughly a 3 : 1 ratio.

Just to be clear those are Barry’s numbers from the podcast, not something I came up with on my own. I’ve got zero independent knowledge about any of this.

#10741 7 days ago
Quoted from KerryImming:

This is roughly a 3 : 1 ratio. One way to deliver these games would be to ship every fourth game to an EA.

You also have to factor in 2 additional elements:

1) There will be costs at the start (call it set-up costs) that will elevate the number of sold games needed before an EA game can be made.

2) As games get made, parts will start to get depleted at an increasing rate, at varying costs to replenish.

As I tried to point out earlier, it's not a simple ratio, but a curve depending on many factors, some unpredictable...

You can't accurately predict, therefore, how many games need to be sold to make an EA game at any one time...

I feel it's broken record time...

#10742 7 days ago

So how long is the CoinTaker list currently of people lined up ready to pay the $12.5k as these machines get made (assuming they actually get made)?

I have to imagine that CoinTaker is in constant contact with DP as the length of this "list" will serve as a barometer of actual interest and viability of continuing the business, yes?

If the list is 25 people long, this project is DOA. If the list is 500 people long, DP should be looking for contract manufacturer to do the work for them and expedite before people change their minds.

#10743 7 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

So how long is the CoinTaker list currently of people lined up ready to pay the $12.5k as these machines get made (assuming they actually get made)?
I have to imagine that CoinTaker is in constant contact with DP as the length of this "list" will serve as a barometer of actual interest and viability of continuing the business, yes?
If the list is 25 people long, this project is DOA. If the list is 500 people long, DP should be looking for contract manufacturer to do the work for them and expedite before people change their minds.

I don't know, just listening to the flipper on Kaneda's podcast, and he said not one but at least two people dropped out when it came time to actually cough up the 12,500.00 for one of the recent 40 games. By that math I would be looking for at least 1500 orders before even thinking about a contract manufacture!

#10744 7 days ago

In God we trust, but will there be a 3rd supplier that will have trust in DP.

21
#10745 7 days ago

Yeah their whole "plan" hinges on 500 people wanting to pay 12.5k for a TBL. That's twice as many as they sold originally when they were the lords of all creation.

Some say Barry is doing right by the EAs by not giving up. I disagree. He could have taken the ARA deal but he didn't want to lose control. He could have taken deeproots's help but 100% guarantee they also would have cut him loose. In the end it seems him remaining involved is more important than making customers happy.

#10746 7 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I don't know, just listening to the flipper on Kaneda's podcast, and he said not one but at least two people dropped out when it came time to actually cough up the 12,500.00 for one of the recent 40 games. By that math I would be looking for at least 1500 orders before even thinking about a contract manufacture!

I heard that too. I cant believe anyone would have backed out considering they can easily sell at a HUGE margin. It is a zero-risk / huge reward situation for those who can stomach the bad press of being a flipper on the machine under the circumstances. You cant get that kind of return with zero risk anywhere else!

#10747 7 days ago

Well first you have to have 12,500 liquid to use for an undetermined length of time, then you have to find a sucker to sell for a HUGE margin. I long for the old days of pinball where people bought games to actually play and enjoy.

Quoted from Dkjimbo:

I heard that too. I cant believe anyone would have backed out considering they can easily sell at a HUGE margin. It is a zero-risk / huge reward situation for those who can stomach the bad press of being a flipper on the machine under the circumstances. You cant get that kind of return with zero risk anywhere else!

#10748 7 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

So how long is the CoinTaker list currently of people lined up ready to pay the $12.5k as these machines get made (assuming they actually get made)?
I have to imagine that CoinTaker is in constant contact with DP as the length of this "list" will serve as a barometer of actual interest and viability of continuing the business, yes?
If the list is 25 people long, this project is DOA. If the list is 500 people long, DP should be looking for contract manufacturer to do the work for them and expedite before people change their minds.

I wonder how many people have emailed DP to get on the list. €12.500 is quite the price, and you have to account for people opting out at the last moment.

I am a huge fan of TBL , if there is a machine ready to pickup for €12.500 i would do it.

#10749 7 days ago

Zero EA games will be made.
EAs will be feed BS until all the money is stolen again. The idea of Building new games for cash is a excuse, to justify the liquidation of the parts that EAs paid for.
Manufacturing is harder then fraud!
Not Replacing the leadership shows the scam is still active.

Can EAs fire this clown

#10750 7 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

I heard that too. I cant believe anyone would have backed out considering they can easily sell at a HUGE margin. It is a zero-risk / huge reward situation for those who can stomach the bad press of being a flipper on the machine under the circumstances. You cant get that kind of return with zero risk anywhere else!

There is always risk. Especially more in this situation when dealing with a known scammer. Plus there is no guarantee of being able to sell the game.

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