Just as suspected there was no judgement from the courts this was a deal struck between ARA and DP. This is why the EAs will receive nothing from what they rightfully should have owned. It's too bad this is in a land where no one had the ability to hold DP to the fire. Very sad. As suspected not even one thought of numbers or a plan or investor to be able to get EAs their games

Is there no possibility that DP will achieve what they plan and get back in the black and start making the EA games from the profit they make on the games when they get back into production?

The fact that there was no bankruptcy and no settlement means that EA's can band together and sue DP now, right?

A settlement through arbitration is still a settlement.

So I say EAs get together and reach a settlement (in writing) with DP. That would at least be progress. And DP would have to live up to the settlement or go bankrupt. Even if that settlement meant getting a game 3 years from now.

No EA settlement, no need to focus on EAs - DP will focus on getting up and running and focus on new customers - sound familiar?

I'm #187 and I just want my machine that I paid for. I am willing to do what the majority feels will get us that result the quickest. So count me in if that means getting together with the rest of the EA's. Just let me know!

No

I've got a feeling you meant 'yes' there... thanks for clarifying though, I feel much more informed now.

I love that they called the proceeds from selling EA games to non-EA’ers an “investment”. Bullshit.

So they have a bunch of parts for games and a license until December 2020. Wonder how long Barry will draw a salary from any remaining proceeds trying to get a new manufacturer until they go broke again.

It’s highly optimistic even with a bunch of parts that they’ll get new games built before the end of next year.

When the fuck is Barry gonna come clean instead of these bullshit news letters that obviously dont show us what we deserve to know or what or who he has and a plan forward? NO! We get only what he wants us to know for his own agenda. Yet he ran the company into the ground. Its bullshit utter bullshit

What in the NSNL concludes that? ARA could have won, and DP could have still reached a settlement in how to satisfy the judgement ARA won against them... and all that language would have held true the same as if ARA/DP settled before judgement was passed.

What big relevation is this? Do you think any of this changes the state of DP from before? They knock out some of their biggest liability... and appear to have money from someone to operate with. "first round..."

The sad part is how Barry tries to woo people with all his production plans.. when he doesn't even know what he has, or where he'll even be.. and he's already talking about his production rate/schedule.. Talk about cart before the horse.

Not true - people are simply choosing not to.

The problem is the numbers just are not in the EA's favor... games cost too much to make. So the number of games needed to sell and return a profit enough to pay to build an EA game to 'give away' are just not very difficult to make work when they are looking at low volumes and low throughput.

Barry is talking like he's going homebrewr building in his own space with his own help.. Look at Spooky and how long it takes them to crank out games... it won't be better than that...

Based on what?

The 'work it out' was the early rounds of the lawsuit.. we don't know at what stage it ended, and this NSNL doesn't conclude that one way or another. We do know in the last NSNL Barry basically admitted defeat with no chance of success in the court. That moment should not be overlooked.

It really doesn't matter either way... the court case was about what DP owed ARA and that DP didn't have rights to the stuff ARA was holding... not how to pay it off. ARA and DP reached an agreement on how to settle the debt... pre or post judgement it really doesn't matter as long as the outcome is an agreement of no outstanding liability beyond that point.

As some of us have been trying to say from the start... the proceeds of 40 game sales alone wouldn't be enough to satisfy the amount due to ARA if the deal meant settling all debts and releasing all assets. It was hinted at before as well... more money was needed. And now barry says "first round of financing.." - he wasn't talking about the EA game sales "profits".

He basically projected he had new money the last time around... we just don't know from who and if it's enough to be viable again. And he certainly isn't going to let us decide...

Why aren’t the EAs seeking a settlement?

In the unlikely event, those boxes of parts somehow miraculously turn into a machine, who says the machine will ever see its way into the hands of the EAs?

I’m sure the machine will simply be resold for the full amount and DP will use the excuse that they need to payoff these new “investors.”

Lets say this though. If DP had to sell the "parts machines" at a premium ($15K+) which appear to exist to generate enough money to continue to manufacture enough machines to allow EA's their pins at regular price or refunds, wouldn't that be better than nothing?

And I'm curious how many EAs actually paid full price vs a the minimum down vs who already got refunds. I'm sure somebody has calculated the actual number right?

Either way, sounds like its really up to DP to reach out and make that deal. And from the previous post, it sounds like he want to stay in business rather than bail out

About 150 EA's are paid in full and gotten nothing. License was for 300 games. 90 made and sold. 150 owed to people paid in full. That only leaves 60 left to sell for profit. Cant make enough off the 60 to fulfill the 150 owed.

Where is your proof? I clearly saw a thread where people got refunds, even if they didn't want them. I also saw a thread where people only put down $1K.

So where is your 150 EA's who paid full price? Actually, maybe we can get a roll call here to get an acutal number going of A. Who didn't get a full refund B. Who paid what? (Full price, Down, etc)

Don't worry, Bride of Pinbot 4.0 will sell like hotcakes..

Check out this thread - Clearly people got refunds.

So how many didn't and how much did they pay is the real question?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dp-usa-refund-still-want-the-game

Actually I would reach out to ZNET and find out what information would be required to start banding together the EA's to make a case.. Then create a google form for those interested to fill out that relevent data. Then find an attorney possibly local to Netherlands to help with the case.

My opinion though, is that now that the ARA games are sold.. the EA's have lost their greatest leverage. Pretty soon Barry will be making hydrofoils with Andrew Heighway.

And then we all paid it back. Phil refunded everyone before he left. Currently ea's are paid up to about #197. only 50 of them got games leaving 147 EA's fucked. I rounded up to 150. Not counting any of the people with just a deposit as they are not EA's

EA's early paid 8500, later ones paid $9500

We all got refunds years back when Phil bailed, most all of us including me remade the payments to DP.. the 150 prepaid machine # is probably pretty close.. the $1000 deposit guys were separate/Not EA’s

The deeproot offer is public knowledge if you go dig it up.

In some cases, didn't sound like an offer - they just gave refunds even if they were not asked for.

But back to the subject here, why isn't there a list of people and who paid what? This way we are not guessing.

Seems like that's the first step right? Without this, you are divided and will get zero.

So you paid the full $8500 and got nothing?

Penal Code #187) In Penal Code #187, California law defines "murder" as "the unlawful killing of a human being or fetus with malice aforethought.".

No I got a game but it is a story that doesn’t have a happy ending and I will leave it at that.

Ok, then sounds like you don't have a case here - you got a machine.

So looking for anybody who paid something and didn't get back a machine or refund from DP?

Just some. I for one was never offered or sent a refund by Phil.

If this community actually believes any of this and thinks games will be rolling into homes starting on or by 12/2020, I'll promise a new pinball machine based on Back to the Future and wait for the money to roll in so I can play "arts and crafts" for 5 years before anyone figures it out. I'll do it overseas too.

I didn't think Stockholm Syndrome like this existed.

Since you have not been around since the begining. about 147 people paid either 8500 or 9500 and got Nothing except maybe a shirt.

Andrew is nowhere near the criminal Barry is turning out to be. Andrew will be kissing the "Don of all pin cons" ring soon.

If 147 EAs, who have yet to receive a game, paid about $9K each, they have $1,323,000 at stake.  The preorder money at stake and the number of customers in the Zidware debacle (Magic Girl, RAZA and AiW in the aggregate) were similar.

Yet, only about a dozen Zidware preorder customers (the Zidware Dozen, hereafter ZDs) hired an attorney, forming the group around my initial suit. Apart from the fear of incurring legal expenses, the fear of accelerating insolvency is perhaps the second reason for aggrieved customers to default to laxity. 

Lawsuits in the USA are useful to force transparency where information is desired.  A good lawyer will obtain that information and advise clients of the best path to achieve the objective. In the words of Justice Brandeis, sunlight is the best disinfectant.  

The attorney can reach out to the adverse party in the spirit of cooperation, with the clout that he/she has the power to force the ultimate issue.  When insolvency is inevitable, the lawyer's job is to determine whether the clients have rights to assets and to ensure that they are first in line.  The lawyer can explain how, for example, the fraudulent transfer of asset law may apply.

The ZDs understood the benefit of counsel.  Mr68 created a private Facebook group to organize the ZDs who  joined the lawsuit.  Mr68 took the lead and continues the effort currently to conclude the victory.  

The tenacious ZDs, with Mr68's leadership, deserve the credit for the successful verdict.  Each of them was the exceptional 1 in 10 of total preorder customers who refused to allow the ship to steer them into the iceberg.  My case successfully resolved within a couple of weeks of the suit, which I filed years ago.  It was Mr68 and the other ZDs (at least one of whom is an EA here) who walked the walk.

The TBL and Zidware projects share some common elements.  Equally, many contrasts exist between the two.  The sensible approach, I submit, is to follow Mr68's template.  Discuss these issues on a private forum, like a Facebook group, in which only EAs and select persons are permitted to join.  Filter out the noise generated by those with adverse interests.  There is strength in numbers and in commonality of interest.

Again, where’s your proof. I believe some but no where near 147. I’m curious what the actual count is instead of rumors.

I’m guessing anybody short money and a machine check this thread often so we should see them lining up. I’d like to see them line up and settle up with DP so this machine can be sold free of issues

And how much did you put down?

Why do you demand proof? You are not an EA or have any skin in the game. Why dont you read the previous 205 pages and see that each EA was given a EA number. At last count 197. Only 50 got games. Only 2 or 3 got real refunds. They had to sue or pressure DP until they caved. There were no deposits for EA's. EA's all paid in full either 8500 or 9500. If you do not like my numbers read through this entire thread yourself. I guess I will only post on the private EA thread from now on since people that know nothing keep demanding things along with putting them on my ignore list.

Here are just a few..

What is your motivation for continuing to harp on this? Why do you think every paid-in-full EA that didn't get a game will post here at your insistence thereby giving a more accurate number than the "about 150" number that is generally agreed upon based on current information? Let's do a thought experiment. Say 120 such people do post here. How do you know without a doubt that there aren't any out there that didn't post here? Some of them don't even have pinside accounts. Since this is just a thought experiment, let's say that somehow you do know without a doubt that that 120 is the correct number. What is your plan with that information and how is it so meteorically changed by being 120 instead of 147?

Ha ha, if only you knew! AH was selling Aliens LE out of his back door... literally! Before he left.. I know, I know 2 guys that rolled up with a van, paid cash and loaded up games.. they were pre-orders!

So did you pay full price? Are you an EA?

I see you already got your machine, so you are not owed anything right? Im just curious how many EA's are still due a refund. So im not demanding anything, just curious. Why are you against me asking and getting an actually number left instead of guessing like everyone else is?

There is a private thread for TBL EAs.

Any EA that is not in the group, and want in, drop me a line..

The thread is only for EA’s

I've read the NSNL 3 times trying to find where he said that, but I just can't see it... maybe I'm losing it... anyway, good you pointed it out... well spotted! You beat me with your observational skills. Bullshit is the appropriate word for sure.

Your curiosity will not be satisfied by repeatedy asking the question on Pinside. The most accurate answer taking all info into account has been stated.

Incorrect. You are conflating different things. Deeproot offered a settlement offer to people who had money in with zidware... with offers ranging from discounts on future games, to multiple full games... depending on how much money you had in the pot. As part of the conditions, a cash refund was available if deeproot did not perform on the prearranged timetable. Deeproot missed that date (June of this year) and offered those in the offer to either extend the timetable, or exercise their refund right. Several have taken their refund right, and have been paid.

For Dutch... there is Phil-gate... where Phil who was part of Dutch pinball US, blew up the place when trying to out Dutch pinball as a fraud. He had access to their PayPal account where many buyers had paid their money through, and enmass, without prompt, started issuing refunds to previous buyers. Those any the only unsolicited refunds out there.

There is. The EAs have their own discussion thread and organized material. It’s just not circulated publically because as one might expect, there is sensitivity in the matter.

I’m not sure why you continue to parade your ignorance of the state of affairs as justification to challenge others?