From the standpoint of the bloodthirsty lawyer, who preordered RAZA #4, I view this Pinsider's outline as accurate.  I would add a clarification, though. 

The primary obstacle to legal recourse on the part of preorder customers has always been a fear of incurring excessive, unrecouped legal fees and costs.  A "class action" is a specialized legal claim that has never been available in the USA preorder debacles, like Zidware and Skit-B.  Typically, class actions require thousands or tens of thousands of victims who share virtually identical grievances. 

A court must certify/approve the class.  One or more lead class members represents the entire class. Class actions are designed to streamline a large volume of "low value" cases to economize court resources, legal fees and costs.  

The available legal route for preorder customers, like the EAs here, is a "group action" as opposed to a "class action." A lawyer can often be found to work on a hybrid flat fee/contingency basis, which allows the victims to cap or circumscribe legal fees and litigation costs.  That is how the dozen or so Zidware victims were able to economically seek legal redress and obtain a favorable judgment at trial.  Their lawyer was willing to absorb some of the litigation risk precisely because his contingency fee, if successful, would be based on a twelvefold quantum and because the pleadings had already been filed, requiring the joinder of new plaintiffs merely via amendment.

Hiring an experienced litigator for a singular claim, on an hourly fee basis, with $15K or less at stake, is usually economically unfeasible. I was able to take on that task against Zidware under these extraordinary circumstances:

1) The debacle's timing was relatively early, prior to the Jpop rescue efforts of Pintasia, American Pinball and Deeproot, meaning that other creditors had not already depleted assets (if any had existed). The slate was clean; no other suits by customers (or vendors, as I recall) had been filed, at that time. Jpop had brought empty cabinets to an expo and refund requests were virtually all ignored (1 Pinsider received a refund after threatening legal action, post-expo). I began preparing for suit shortly thereafter;

2) Zidware and its officers were all based in Illinois;

3) As a trial attorney licensed in New Jersey and Washington, DC, I was able to prepare drafts of the complaint (i.e. the lawsuit's initial pleading) thereby averting the hourly legal fee. However, I needed a local attorney admitted to practice in Illinois;

4) I knew a talented civil litigator in Chicago willing to represent me and to allow me to keep fees to a minimum, based on my ability to assist.

Needless to say, for Early Achievers to replicate a "group action" here, a dozen or more would likely be needed to organize and retain Dutch counsel.  With $100K or so total at stake, a hybrid retainer might be feasible, for those inclined toward proactive efforts.  

Having endured the anxiety-producing Zidware rollercoaster debacle, my heart breaks for those who had hostage games.  The removal of game plaques is, in retrospect (and perhaps in the future), instructive.  I disagree with the notion that these TBL games were fungible goods.

If this dispute had been in the USA, an "intervenor action" could have been brought for injunctive relief, after ARA's suit but prior to any ARA adjudication. The legal argument could have been that these fully-paid games were designated to EAs (highlighting the plaques as evidence) and that EAs had the 1st right to purchase or otherwise acquire them. 

An equity court (or law division court) judge (or arbitrator) would have been called upon to craft an equitable remedy, somehow splitting the proverbial baby.  EAs may have been required to pay more; but, I imagine that a U.S. court would have fashioned some Solomonesque solution, making everyone at least marginally satisfied.  Minimally, a skilled attorney on behalf of EAs could have monkey-wrenched ARA's claim enough to have secured some concessions for EAs.

Whether Dutch law would have operated similarly or whether a future path exists, however dubious, regarding parts or other assets is up for debate.

I enjoyed playing TBL at Pinfest a few years ago. Naturally, my fingers remain crossed that EAs ultimately receive a remedy, even in the twilight of this saga. I apologize for this long post. . .hope I haven't contributed to the anxiety, which would be unDudelike, for sure. I do not mean to be an interloper here. Instead, having followed this thread, my intention is to add some clarity, particularly on the incorrect use of the class action terminology.

The thing is.. if lawsuit is filed, and the 40 MADE games given to EA’s in line- what about the other 103 EAs - DP would 100% go bust-
Maybe parts for unmade games #?- let’s say 50.. that is still 50 EA’s left with nothing..

I hope it’s an All or nothing scenario..

Oh and who is going to make the games with the parts... a long project for sure

Weyland Yutani would take on the task..

We getting the band back together???

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This is why you are the unsung hero of the Jpop/Zidware legal victory. Without your efforts there is no telling how things may have played out. My respect and humble gratitude to you is eternal and I'm proud to publicly recognise you as our champion.

Sorry to go off topic but it needed to be said and was long overdue.

What’s wrong with that? The same outcome would happen if DP went bust. Games would be sold to satisfy ARA’s debt. Parts would be sold too. The only difference is Barry wouldn’t get to call anymore shots and would be liable in some way. And possibly at least a judgement or bankruptcy could be filed so the EAs might get some relief, or at least promise of future relief if parts and games are sold.

By trading insolvently, DP has further runway to possibly extort future dollars from potential investors / customers. This belief that DP will suddenly get their shit together after fucking it up this bad is unreal. Rather see these parts get bought by Marco or CGC or someone than let DP continue to front as a legitimate enterprise and not a bankrupt company.

Guess I will regret posting here as I will get burned and marked as a DP lover. So upfront, yes, I consider Barry being a friend so read the below with that in mind.

But reading all these messages mostly from people having zero knowledge claiming however to know it all and having no skin in the game get under my skin . So let me write something trying to clarify some matters or at least let you know how I see it. This especially for my fellow EA’s.

So, a lot of assumptions here but those thinking the 40 games would have to go to the 40 EA who paid for them are in the wrong. They would never have gone to us EA unfortunately

Why? Simple because there was no more money left with DP to pay them. ARA dragged everything for years and so emptying the DP pockets. And yes, they had there 1 wild party in 2014 where they brought to their penthouse their own food and drinks bought in the supermarket.... Didnt see any hookers or expensive Champaign. Damned, must have left to early

So in order to get out of the ARA claim, free the way in order to try to continue so to speak without having the ARA claim hanging above them preventing any further actions, these 40 games would need to be ‘resold’. Without a license and the software the built TBLs were worthless to ARA but in the hands of DP they are worth enough to pay off ARA. ARA had ofcourse a big write-off but suppose DP would go bankrupt they would have nothing. They chose the better something as nothing route.

So CT did the sale, paid DP, DP paid ARA. The fact that CT, who has for sure more inside info as us, trusts DP on this should tell you guys something.

So, these 40 games would never have gone to us EA, like it or not. As I see it us EA lost nothing. It was either this move with hope for the future or go bankrupt for DP.

Than people will state Barry did this to cover his own ass. Now, there was no ass to be covered. If DP would go bankrupt Dutch law protects him and his private assets would remain his assets. Only if you commit fraude directors of BV’s like DP is can be hold privately responsible and Barry didn’t commit any fraude. So declaring DP bankrupt would not influence Barry’s financial position in life. So Barry’s motivation to do this all is not to protect his financial ass but trying to get us EA what he promised, a TBL. Because yes, he feels responsible for this. Believe me, just declaring bankruptcy and move on with other things is a much easier road as the one chosen now.

And yes, he also still feels ARA are the ones having caused all this mess. That he lost the courtcase wasn’t because the judge said the lack of money wasn’t caused by ARA but just that the invoice was legit and need to be paid. That DP stated this lack of money was caused by ARA themselves would be a topic of another courtcase. This was about invoice legit yes or no. And a new courtcase would take way to long meaning DP bankrupt befor outcome was known. Which is why DP (Barry) tried, again, to reach an agreement with ARA and here we are. .

I don’t like to current situation either but it is either they go bankrupt or try this route with a, big or small, chance for success. Barry is highly motivated to try this. Not because of financials as I mentioned above but because he wants us to get what he committed to. He may not feel guilty but feels for sure responsible.

Than the part about taking via court possession of the 40 TBLs as they are assets of DP. Even if this was possible, which I don’t think so, the only people screwed would be either CT or the 40 new buyers as it would be now there money gone. Remember, they were ARA property and only the CT money ‘freed’ then. Would you wanna be responsible for this?? Taking possession of the parts than, to do what with? Sell them for like 100K, divide this over the creditors and get pennies on the dollar?? Not me.

No, fact is we are as EA’s on this roller coaster without a steering wheel for us and we can only help, or pray if you want, for a good outcome. I try to help Barry as much as I can hoping he can pull it off. Won’t be easy and it is for sure not a done deal. The biggest mistake I see that DP made is that their contract with ARA wasn’t watertight enough to enforce the original production schedule promised by ARA to have them produced in 2015....

Oh, and the story of the 51% stock share for ARA which pops up regularly. Believe me, as soon as ARA would have had this they would have resold the 40 pcs, like happens now, but than they would have closed shop leaving zero for us. They had no intention anymore in becoming a pinball production company. They wanted out ASAP. Remember, DP offered them 100% control of the money (payments would go direct to the bank account of ARA bypassing DP) but they said no. Why?

So this is my 2 cents for what’s worth to you. Hope I don’t need a flame suit.

Rensh: what is the plan now? If I read your message correctly Barry is “free” of the ARA claim but I have to guess he has no capital and potentially other debts. What is his next move? Bank loan? Investors? Or is he going to build and sell machines 1 by 1 (no pre orders pay as built I’m guessing?)

The latter seems like the most likely solution but probably easier said than done since some capital will be necessary to set up manufacturing.

I won’t comment on the history of this or the case or my opinion any further. I learned many posts ago everyone in this thread will believe whatever they want to believe no matter what the law (or logic) says. At this point I’m just curious what happens next if anything...

Thank you for this insightful post! FINALLY, someone who actually knows what they're talking about from an applicable legal perspective!

Now if we just had an ZNET equivalent EA in The Netherlands to work with ...

We're on a mission from God!

Now all we need is 4 games worth of parts. Anyone?

Did Barry tell you when DP will explain how it plans to resume production? Sale of the 40 games allowed DP to pay off some of its debt to ARA, but I don't understand how DP moves from where it is today (no more games, pile of parts, still owes ARA an undisclosed sum, still owes games to 100 or more EAs) to where it wants to be (DP generates sufficient resources to produce and sell enough new games to cover expenses, remaining debt to ARA, and begin paying down debt to EAs). Until DP puts a realistic plan on the table and starts taking concrete steps to execute on that plan, sympathy and patience for Barry will remain in short supply.

Rensh ... I appreciate your desire to provide information to support your friend, however, the most impactful action you can take to help is to encourage Barry to reach out and communicate directly with each EA the current status and plans for the future.

In the absence of transparent, honest communication, supposition and anger will continue.

I hope the best for a positive change in direction for all involved.

Thanks for the insightful synopsis! Just one small point though, I don't think the idea from any EA was that they got their game without paying any more... I think we all realise a cash injection was needed and the games had to be sold off... I think the gripe with EAs is that they were not given a privilege in being able to be the ones buying those games for an extra $12.5k... and if they did then they'd not lose their place in line for receiving their actual EA game if/when it got made of course. I.e. selling those 40 games to EAs would have brought in the same amount of cash as selling them to anyone who was fast enough to call CT... so why not give the EAs first refusal at least?... that's the gripe of the EAs I believe... maybe the answer is the speed of sale... or maybe the answer is that Barry didn't feel it appropriate to offer the games to EAs asking them to pay an extra $12.5k after they'd already paid 8.5...

Gonna stop you right there. DP has the opportunity to pay ARA 1000 euros additional per game according to DP to get the assembly moving again. (At least that’s what was said after the circuit board lies were exposed). Why didn’t they do that, instead of digging in and eventually involving the courts? In hindsight, 1,000 euros extra seems like a goddamn bargain and I bet to hell every EA wishes they had a chance to pay that additional cost and get a game.

It’s my contention that DP’s pockets were basically empty when the circuit board lies were told. They theorized they could sell 150 BoP’s at 12,500 to cover the TBL shortfall. ARA rightfully saw this as a form of check-kiting and did not order the second game parts and DP was stuck, not having enough money to finish TBL

Yeah just Barry lies and bullshit.. there was a time when I wanted to help these guys.. :middle finger:

Where do people get these ideas from?

If you would have listened to Jaap’s explanation on video you would have learned that DP AGREED with this increase if ARA would step up production and produce 50 pcs BoP (not a SLE version) within 2017. ARA agreed to do this on paper. And in fact this stepping up production DP asked for was already long overdue and not an over demand. DP just wanted them to keep finally their end of the deal which started in 2014.

End October 2017 it showed that ARA had no intention to keep there part of the deal (no parts ordered and no stepup in production). So DP put their feet in the ground and ARA reacted with shutting down. And ARA did this while they were the one who kept (again) not their end of the deal.

So do you really think that ARA would have kept their commitment to production if we would have paid the Eur 1000 in place if DP? Nope. The manager at that time with ARA had proven not to be trusted. They would have taken the eur 1000 and just put new demands on the table.

So if you scream this kind of info into the world get the picture complete please. This is public known intel so you could have known this but I guess that story isn’t fancy enough ..... DP has to fall.

Do you know how does sounds to me as an EA??

He, I can help you EA’s but you know what, middle finger to you guys.

Not helping DP equals not helping EA after all.

If you really can help but are stopped by the conclusion that Barry is a lying m*therf*cker why don’t phone him and get the intel direct from him. Or are you the kind of person who talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk .....

Soooooooo, how bout those Mets??

A NSN is expected very soon

Don’t forget, DP is more or less a 1 man company now (just Barry). And all of this is a lot of work

But, soon.

I’d rather they keep going if the other option is to talk about boring azz baseball...!!!.............Joey

I expect that in coming NSN more of this will be revealed. Let’s await that first and take it from there

Are there any more unboxing photos? Shouldnt the second batch buyers be receiving theirs shortly?

The first batch will be receiving them this week.

It should be Barry who should be calling the EAs.

What's his phone number?

Ours arrived a couple hours ago.

In plain sight for the whole world to see on their website .....

The dude is almost ready for prime time!

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A little learning curve was needed.

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Oomoo?

I was part of the crew that was on the unofficial US “marketing team”.. I was part of the crew that helped unfuck the finances before Phil got out.. and I was part of the crew that basically is responsible for keeping Aliens in parts and running.. so I walk the walk..

You find me a pile of parts I’ll make you a lebowski..

but we’ve all seen plenty of examples of Barry lying.. even when he “comes clean” it’s more lies.. I’m not interested in being bullshitted one on one.

Rensh, you efforts are appreciated and I don't think anyone begrudges the person esteem and friendship you might have for Barry.

But - (and I say this as a spectator so, maybe my opinion is invalid) - when the "board issue" was exposed as a cover up lie, Barry basically blew his own feet off.

Now maybe that was supposed to be a minor white lie to buy time. Companies big and small do this to their customers routinely and when they succeed, nobody is the wiser. Unfortunately Barry was not so lucky.

To that add his indefensibly stupid radio silence broken only by hopes, diversions, and other things well short of tacit ownership, apology, or planning, and you can see his credibility is basically almost worthless. Surely he must know this, otherwise why the silence? Why do you have to speak for him? Granted, "Pinside" may not be owed the direct answers the EA's are, BUT again this issue is of his own making and there's a reason why EA's rallied here and DP is basically dead in the community.

It's the 21st century: Communication is easy... far more so than pinball, yet he even failed that: not a good look. If he wants to repair his credibility he should get started in earnest, even if he has more arguably pressing obligations. I hope the upcoming NSN is a proper start.

I agree that better communication would have helped, but I also imagine that Barry likes to give good news and can't help himself from not wanting to disclose bad news... and since there's been quite a lot of the latter recently, I'm guessing that's why he's been silent... not that I fully condone this... but I can at least relate to it.

If that really was the full story... ara would have shipped the games and not told people dp hadn’t paid... nor would the court ruled in favor that dp had unpaid invoices.

You know, but fail to include, that DP already owed them money they had not paid... the stoppage wasn’t just dp putting their foot down over the bop 2.0 garbage. Things were not happening because bills were not paid. And also why dp didn’t just pay the bill at the time to release the games. They didn’t have the money.

They were in the hole to ara and ara cut off shipments.

You know Ted..... you're the shit!! You always take a sensitive topic and you interject a little bit of laughter and humor into the stressful situation.
I don't know what the f#ck you're all about or where your wisdom comes from, but I gotta tell ya, you are an interesting person. I hope we can cross paths one day and share a couple bottles of scotch or rum. I know I would regret all the booze that we consumed but I sure would revel in all your stories and humor.

QSS

Why were they so bent on getting 50 BoPs made when they still had 100+ more TBLs to go? Oh yeah because they were broke and needed to sell more BoP preorders to finish TBL.

How much money did DP bring in ?
How many games did they make ?
The avg total cost to build each game must me have been $25,000.00 ?

Does anyone know ?

The Bride of Pinbot 2.0 seemed to have been concieved to quickly make money, as I didn't see much hype for remake wishes. Sure, the revamped DMD animations are nice, but not enough to build a pinball machine around it.

The only harder sell was Hammer of the Godz. The only pinball machine where you get to do a scavenger hunt to build. Yay!

DP's BoP 2.0 actually preceded TBL. You must be thinking of BoP 3.

Glad to see these hitting the street! Hopefully more will come at some point.

The only person that knows this is Barry and I highly doubt he will answer any of these questions.
Based on owners there are around 90 TBLs made (50 shipped years ago and 40 that were made years ago that shipped now).

Hopefully there will be more..

EA’s check out Private thread for NSNL incoming!

SPOILER ALERT:

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Anytime, my friend! Cigars and drinks on me!

Has ARA ever built pinballs before?

No - but honestly for a CM its not that big of a deal. It's the engineering and mix of many different disciplines that makes pulling a pinball project together - not as much the idea of 'assembling' it.

- Creative
- Game design
- Layout design
- Reliable mechanical and electrical design
- The art of playfield wood+printing+coating
- Wood Cabinetry
- Sourcing or Designing "toy" elements that could include sculpting, art, production sourcing
- Metal forming work
- Handling a large BOM

That's many different disciplines that have to all do their part to assemble the project the CM will injest as a logistics, assemble, test, and packaging task.

In many cases though, as it was in DP as well... the CM offers services in those engineering and prep challenges to fill the gaps the customer doesn't have themselves. Like the engineering and supply chain/sourcing stuff to actually make a concept "buildable" and production ready. It's that portion that seems to be the contention in the DP/ARA relationship... in that either DP under estimated it, or ARA screwed DP out by drawing it out... depending on who you listen to.

Barry's update just hit my inbox.

"Dear Hoss Coog,

In the last update I informed you on the settlement I’ve reached with our former manufacturer. And two weeks ago we managed to complete the settlement! This means that the lawsuit is off table and all games and parts that are in their warehouse are now ours and also fully paid for. With this first round of financing we are now ready to getting things set up again to build games. I am very happy with the trust of Cointaker and some of my very close friends and family who made this possible.

Due to the holiday of three weeks at ARA we had limited access to their warehouse, but fortunately we managed to get the games out and some parts we needed to finish them. Last week the first games were shipped. The rest of the games are now ready as well and will be shipped this week. I know it’s a bittersweet moment, but it’s also the start of a new beginning. We can now truly focus on the future.

On Monday next week the holiday will be over and then we can start with the transport of all the parts. We are already checking the list of parts and taking stock of how many parts we have to build games. Some parts are there for 200+ games, but some parts were bought ‘lean’ and this means that we also have to order new parts as we progress.

In the next weeks we will be busy preparing everything for production: arranging our production facility, counting parts, putting all the parts in our inventory system, checking the assembly instructions, sorting out the tools needed, etc... we will start small and will expand over time to build more games. We have a couple of locations in mind where we want to (re)start our business. We still have to decide which location is best and we hope to get this figured out this, or next week.

Another thing I want to inform you about is something I get a lot of questions about: the license from Universal Pictures. I'm happy to report that we have extended the license! For now it is extended until December 31st 2020.

I will keep you informed how things are progressing the coming weeks. If you have any questions. Please let me know. You can always email, or call me.

Kind regards,

Barry

P.S. Here are some photos of the parts in storage. It going to take a while to sort this out : )"

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