(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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#10151 87 days ago

EA’s will be ignored, as they are scattered and not a perceived threat.

DP gave them a middle finger years ago by partying up the funds, so giving them MORE money is the definition of insanity.

I lost out on Pred and Alien, trying to support the new guy. So from now on the future ‘new guy’ can build a fucking product to sell. No crowd funding. No preorders. If the new guy cannot risk they get no reward.

Hopefully the ass-for-every-seat Lemmings are going away.

#10152 87 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

What happened with Alien- people lost out-
Predator- people Lost out.
Spending another god knows how much on a lawyer to loose out..
If DP go bust now- ARA is mostly paid off- the parts will then belong to EA’s as next creditors for DP- might get a game in bits! Only option is this one..
If you know how Dutch law works Neil - then please give me a PM

Dave,
no one knows what the situation with ARA is, no one knows what the situation with other suppliers is, DP have no money, they needed to sell the games they had to pay off ARA, was it enough, who knows. We already know that the full view of what games where available is in doubt...

DP consistently make huge errors of judgement (the latest one not giving EA's a chance to buy the game first) and are consistent in not being fully transparent, they tried their bullshit with ARA and lost.

Parts? Parts could be everything from a couple of fuses to god knows what. does it include wiring, screws and other consumables needed to make games? Nobody knows. I doubt even DP really know. It definitely doesn't include labour.

Law across Europe is mostly the same, what's different about it is the procedures. EA's get together and at least buy 4 hours from a decent dutch lawyer to explain and give a view on options. It'll cost you around 1500 Euro's between about 40 (?) people that isn't a huge amount of money. DP have no money to spend to buy parts which means the next run of games if ARA are mental enough to make them will be sold to a different set of buyers. They pissed the EA's money away on parties crap and bullshit.

Neil.

#10153 87 days ago

DP Have 200sq meters of parts - more than a few screws Neil- DP have a Inventory of most parts that ARA had.. a lot of the expensive parts are there other less expensive parts were ordered Lean...

This stuff I am keeping for the EA thread.. for people how actually have skin in the game.. everyone is entitled to their opinion- but when they state things as FACT or word it like they Know what’s going on.. they don’t Bar Barry, and a few others who are helping Barry sort games and no doubt will be helping Barry move the parts when the factory reopens.. of which some are EA’s...

#10154 87 days ago

Link to code update

2EBA9056-091B-4922-A6BA-41B24568170A (resized).jpeg
#10155 87 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

Link to code update[quoted image]

Cheers Dave, but that’s still version 0.48 which has been out since Jan 2017. Apparently more recent software should be coming out soon?

#10156 87 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

Dave,
no one knows what the situation with ARA is, no one knows what the situation with other suppliers is, DP have no money, they needed to sell the games they had to pay off ARA, was it enough, who knows. We already know that the full view of what games where available is in doubt...

cointaker knows...

From what I've researched, there should be no real barrier to pursuing DP in the Netherlands. There are also EAs in Europe that could sue locally. From the sentiment the EAs have put out in public.. I'd wager the majority just didn't want to pursue legal action for fear to it leading to the end game of 'no TBL at all' because of a defunct DP.

#10157 87 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I'd wager the majority just didn't want to pursue legal action for fear to it leading to the end game of 'no TBL at all' because of a defunct DP.

That's certainly my thinking... why spend money to sink the ship you're on?

#10158 87 days ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

Cheers Dave, but that’s still version 0.48 which has been out since Jan 2017. Apparently more recent software should be coming out soon?

That is all there is at the moment.. 0.49 is in development- were all games shipped out with 0.45?

#10159 87 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

That's certainly my thinking... why spend money to sink the ship you're on?

but its not "sinking the ship your on".....anyone with a brain and a basic calculator can see the ship is already sunk. Legal action can force further resolution. this inaction is just a sad resignation and a false hope. Again - the Zidware ship had sunk...now look....all of those people are getting cash or free games from Deeproot. It doesn't hurt to TRY!! so what gives? again I say, what is this sad Stockholm syndrome like behavior that leaves blind faith in the hand of known liars, cheats and criminals?? If watching YOUR game get sold off to someone else at a premium price doesn't call you to action or inspire some sort of engagement...nothing will....its a really interesting study on human psychology really. very very hard to explain rationally what is going on here. Some people are OVERJOYED at the moment unboxing new games and boasting to the world, others are deeper and deeper in the hole but seemingly unwilling or uninspired to do anything about it.

#10160 87 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

but its not "sinking the ship your on".....anyone with a brain and a basic calculator can see the ship is already sunk. Legal action can force further resolution. this inaction is just a sad resignation and a false hope. Again - the Zidware ship had sunk...now look....all of those people are getting cash or free games from Deeproot. It doesn't hurt to TRY!! so what gives? again I say, what is this sad Stockholm syndrome like behavior that leaves blind faith in the hand of known liars, cheats and criminals?? If watching YOUR game get sold off to someone else at a premium price doesn't call you to action or inspire some sort of engagement...nothing will....its a really interesting study on human psychology really. very very hard to explain rationally what is going on here. Some people are OVERJOYED at the moment unboxing new games and boasting to the world, others are deeper and deeper in the hole but seemingly unwilling or uninspired to do anything about it.

There is a point when you start throwing good money after bad.

#10161 87 days ago
Quoted from estrader:

There is a point when you start throwing good money after bad.

There’s also a point where people start throwing out bad advice after good. There are some credible reasons some EAs might decide to sue DP, but creating a Zidware-style miracle bailout is not among them.

#10162 87 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

the ship is already sunk.

I'm not convinced that it the case... obviously I might be wrong, but personally I think my best option is to hang on... even if it has sunk, what is there to recover from a sunk ship?

#10163 87 days ago
Quoted from pinballslave:

That's certainly my thinking... why spend money to sink the ship you're on?

your ship has sunk

38a681 (resized).jpg

and the Pirate that is DP has sold your piece of eight and they are partying drinking your beer smoking your cigars!

38a63x (resized).jpg

#10164 87 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

DP Have 200sq meters of parts - more than a few screws Neil- DP have a Inventory of most parts that ARA had.. a lot of the expensive parts are there other less expensive parts were ordered Lean...
This stuff I am keeping for the EA thread.. for people how actually have skin in the game.. everyone is entitled to their opinion- but when they state things as FACT or word it like they Know what’s going on.. they don’t Bar Barry, and a few others who are helping Barry sort games and no doubt will be helping Barry move the parts when the factory reopens.. of which some are EA’s...

have you seen evidence of it Dave? Have you seen the list of parts? Have you priced up what's missing? Who has title on these parts? Is it ARA?

I get that you don't want to kill DP completely but surely spending a few quid just to understand what the legal options are has to be worth it?

With DP continuing to trade insolvently how are you sure that some other debtor doesn't start proceedings? Tax man or someone else? Have you see the list of liabilities?

Cheers,
Neil.

#10165 87 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

cointaker knows...
From what I've researched, there should be no real barrier to pursuing DP in the Netherlands. There are also EAs in Europe that could sue locally. From the sentiment the EAs have put out in public.. I'd wager the majority just didn't want to pursue legal action for fear to it leading to the end game of 'no TBL at all' because of a defunct DP.

that's what so depressing about this situation. The EA's have had multiple punches to the face.

(Put on Getting Stronger from Rocky whilst reading this LOL).

The first was coughing up the money to fund these cowboys
The second was the lying about production
The third was finding out ARA had effectively closed DP down and DP was going to court rather than doing a deal then (!)
The fourth was the nonsense that they could find another builder for the game
The fifth, and in my view should have been a knock out blow, ARA winning the court case.
The sixth was finding out they had done a deal to cover their own arse and that the games would be sold to cover liabilities
The seventh was not being offered the games first
The Eighth is seeing other people unbox games that should have been theirs

Now completely punch drunk EA's are hoping for a round 12 miracle, when its more likely a left hook that kills the fighter!

If this ends up with EA's out of pocket I just hope they don't have any regrets on things they should have done, like get some proper legal advice. You don't have to do anything with it, but at least you can make informed decisions.

#10166 87 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

I was an EA I would welcome a conclusion where I get shipped a box of all the parts required to build my own game minus the cabinet.

Without documentation on how they should be assembled that box of parts would NEVER turn into a pinball machine.

Even an experienced assembler from ARA couldn't do it.

#10167 87 days ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

If watching YOUR game get sold off to someone else at a premium price doesn't call you to action or inspire some sort of engagement...nothing will....its a really interesting study on human psychology really. very very hard to explain rationally what is going on here. Some people are OVERJOYED at the moment unboxing new games and boasting to the world, others are deeper and deeper in the hole but seemingly unwilling or uninspired to do anything about it.

It sucks that this happened to anyone.. and while I get that this being an international trade it muddies the water a bit, but in a capitalist economy "caveat emptor", let the buyer beware.

EA's spent $8k+ with DP on hopes and dreams of owning this game, some people got them, others got nothing. The EA's "contract" with Dutch Pinball ended when the Dutch court decided the games belonged to ARA and not DP, in order to cover debts owed. Can any EA's produce a legitimate contract or is it just a credit card receipt?

Once these games were determined to be owned by ARA, this created a new market, agnostic of all the EA's. All the dreamers out there that think these games should have been offered to EA's first, or some other carebear B.S. is delusional. ARA owes nothing to the EA's and is solely focused on recovering debts owed (by DP). Cointaker is just the middle man in this transaction, and it seems grey because they helped broker the original sales of these games.. but everyone should divorce themselves from this. To my knowledge they only offered refundable deposits on this games, and have maintained integrity throughout this ordeal.

EA's have four options.

1.) Do nothing and move on. (Or wait for DP to magically produce new games..)
2.) Buy one on the secondary (12,5k) or tertiary market (likely 12.5k+)
3.) Spend more money and individually file suit against DP. - A lawyer will likely cost more than what has already been spent, and legal costs are considered a "wash" and usually cannot be reclaimed in lawsuits. Finding one that is specialized in international trade on US and the Netherlands isn't going to be like your local Saul Goodman rate either. Then if a judgement is ruled in your favor, you still need to get money out of DP. If you think they have any capital left, you are delusional.
4.) Band together or attempt to file a class-action lawsuit. - If you can find a lawyer specialized in this situation, convince them that there is financial gain at the end for the risk they would need to put up, the EA's could likely win a judgement. But again, unless one of the EA's is a bloodthirsty lawyer, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to look at this and think there is any money left to be had. If this happens, likely DP will just declare bankruptcy and negate it all.. See "Predator"

Any chance for restitution against DP the EA's had resided with the games that ARA has just sold.

Predicting the future, I'll speculate that Dutch Pinball has many outstanding debts and will soon file bankruptcy. Those debts will be cataloged and prioritized, and paid out with any available capital or capital that can be raised through liquidation. Guess how much that will be.. ZERO. See "Heighway Pinball"..

-6
#10168 86 days ago

Is Cointaker giving anything to the EA’s from his profit in this scam?

Maybe Cointaker can donate his Profit to the EAs.
That would help the EAs recover pennies on the dollar .

Not offering the EA’s first shot at games is lazy
Not offering the EA’s the profit is heartless

#10169 86 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

Is Cointaker giving anything to the EA’s from his profit in this scam?
Maybe Cointaker can donate his Profit to the EAs.
That would help the EAs recover pennies on the dollar .
Not offering the EA’s first shot at games is lazy
Not offering the EA’s the profit is heartless

Ok now you’re just trolling...

#10170 86 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

Is Cointaker giving anything to the EA’s from his profit in this scam?
Maybe Cointaker can donate his Profit to the EAs.
That would help the EAs recover pennies on the dollar .
Not offering the EA’s first shot at games is lazy
Not offering the EA’s the profit is heartless

Blaming cointaker is lazy. There are 40 games and how many EA’s? There is no fair way to do this as someone gets burned either way. What about the people that had deposit with cointaker for years that wouldn’t get their game. Now cointaker should work for free because people that didn’t order a game through them got burned?

People took a risk and it didn’t work out because of Dutch pinball. Not Ara and for sure not cointaker.

-18
#10171 86 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

Is Cointaker giving anything to the EA’s from his profit in this scam?
Maybe Cointaker can donate his Profit to the EAs.
That would help the EAs recover pennies on the dollar .
Not offering the EA’s first shot at games is lazy
Not offering the EA’s the profit is heartless

Cointaker's rationale for selling these games was: "if we don't sell them here, someone else will in Europe". It's kind of like if a mob boss wanted to hire you to kill a guy and you say "Well, if I don't kill him, he'll just hire someone else to kill him. I might as well do it and make a little money on it since he's going to die anyways." I think CT had the choice to not get involved in this nasty business but they chose money over integrity. I competely disagree with everyone saying they have no share in this mess.

#10172 86 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

Cointaker's rationale for selling these games was: "if we don't sell them here, someone else will in Europe". It's kind of like if a mob boss wanted to hire you to kill a guy and you say "Well, if I don't kill him, he'll just hire someone else to kill him. I might as well do it and make a little money on it since he's going to die anyways." I think CT had the choice to not get involved in this nasty business but they chose money over integrity. I competely disagree with everyone saying they have no share in this mess.

I call BS, CT held deposits for many years. DP (and unfortunately the EAs lost), ARA won. CT stepped up to get games for those with deposits.

#10173 86 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

Cointaker's rationale for selling these games was: "if we don't sell them here, someone else will in Europe". It's kind of like if a mob boss wanted to hire you to kill a guy and you say "Well, if I don't kill him, he'll just hire someone else to kill him. I might as well do it and make a little money on it since he's going to die anyways." I think CT had the choice to not get involved in this nasty business but they chose money over integrity. I competely disagree with everyone saying they have no share in this mess.

They are in the pinball selling business.. what they are doing does not question their integrity at all. You should direct your frustration at Dutch pinball not the middle man.

If you pay to have a house built, and the builder never delivers.. do you crucify the realtor?

#10174 86 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

I call BS, CT held deposits for many years. DP (and unfortunately the EAs lost), ARA won. CT stepped up to get games for those with deposits.

CT told customers they had to pay another $4000 or not get the game. Imagine ordering something from Amazon, not getting it for three years, then being told it would cost 50% more or they would cancel your order.

#10175 86 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

CT told customers they had to pay another $4000 or not get the game. Imagine ordering something from Amazon, not getting it for three years, then being told it would cost 50% more or they would cancel your order.

CT isn’t the one at fault though. CT didn’t raise the price. And clearly, 40 people had no problem with the increase.

#10176 86 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

CT told customers they had to pay another $4000 or not get the game. Imagine ordering something from Amazon, not getting it for three years, then being told it would cost 50% more or they would cancel your order.

Your analogy doesn’t make sense. It’s more like you order something from Kickstarter for one price and it shows up later on amazon for twice as much before you get your order..

Guess what, that happens too. See my earlier point about two different markets now. Anyone with your perspective is confusing them as the same market.

#10177 86 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

This analogy doesn’t make sense.. a better analogy is, imagine you ordered something from Kickstarter.. then it shows up on amazon before you get it for twice as much money, meanwhile you’re still waiting for your order
Guess what, that happens too.

And everyone complains about it but in this case everyone's defending it... I don't understand why there is a separate set of rules for pinball compared to every other industry.

-3
#10178 86 days ago

What right did DP have to offer cointaker money to re sell these games ?

Somehow the deal was done with enough cash left over to pay cointaker but zero for the EAs?

ARA, DP and cointaker are all involved now.

$500,000.00 for 40 games with zero left over for EAs??

Did cointaker offer to sell the extra parts, with the cash going to EAs ?

#10179 86 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

Your analogy doesn’t make sense. It’s more like you order something from Kickstarter for one price and it shows up later on amazon for twice as much before you get your order..
Guess what, that happens too. See my earlier point about two different markets now. Anyone with your perspective is confusing them as the same market.

That absolutely happened it was called the Coolest Cooler.

#10180 86 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

What right did DP have to offer cointaker money to re sell these games ?
Somehow the deal was done with enough cash left over to pay cointaker but zero for the EAs?
ARA, DP and cointaker are all involved now.
$500,000.00 for 40 games with zero left over for EAs??
Did cointaker offer to sell the extra parts, with the cash going to EAs ?

How do you know DP offered cointaker any money? How do you know CT didn’t work with ARA directly for a fee?

How do you know what cash was leftover if you don’t know what the debt to ARA was?

You live in carebearland not reality.

-19
#10181 86 days ago

I think cointaker should work for FREE on this issue

Why would you expect to make a profit when your cleaning up a mess ??

This is not business as usual and any profit made looks fishy

#10182 86 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

I think cointaker should work for FREE on this issue
Why would you expect to make a profit when your cleaning up a mess ??
This is not business as usual and any profit made looks fishy

They are contracted to help clean up DPs mess.. profit made doesn’t look fishy to me, it looks like ARA had a problem of pinball inventory.. and cointaker was obviously able to easily solve it.. they turned 40 useless boxes (to ARA) into cash in less than 24 hours..

That doesn’t happen for free.

-7
#10183 86 days ago

I have no clue what cointaker is charging
I have no clue who offered him the deal.
I don’t know if cointaker is keeping any games for resale.

The truth is tied up in people trying to make money.

Why did cointaker arrange this deal without giving out all the information?

Open and honest business is not happening at this moment.

-2
#10184 86 days ago

I am glad cointaker was able to sell 40 EAs games in 24hours. Honest hard work
I bet the EAs are impressed

More impressed that 12500$ per game
500,000.00$ came in with zero crumbs for EAs

#10185 86 days ago

The parts Dutch Pinball got out of this deal, free and clear, bothers me still. Normally the receiving company should have provided the parts to first 100 EA’s for free or built the parts into 100 games and given them to EA’s. Unfortunately the receiving company is DP and DP has proven to be incompetent. DP has been really quiet about the parts but Barry has signaled his intent to build and sell the games.

This is not copesettic. DP cannot legally build games with parts that have been paid for by one party, in order to sell finished games to a second party. DP either has to declare bankruptcy and dispose of assets properly or wait for some party to sue them and shut them down. Alternatively DP could come up with a plan and get EA’s to agree before proceeding. The plan would have to be a good one and chances of that are slim to none, given DP’s remaining goodwill is badwill. It is inevitable DP will declare bankruptcy, but whether it is voluntary is yet to be seen.

#10186 86 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

I am glad cointaker was able to sell 40 EAs games in 24hours. Honest hard work
I bet the EAs are impressed
More impressed that 12500$ per game
500,000.00$ came in with zero crumbs for EAs

You’re confusing the issue.. EAs agreement was with Dutch Pinball.

Cointaker sold games on behalf of ARA..

#10187 86 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

You’re confusing the issue.. EAs agreement was with Dutch Pinball.
Cointaker sold games on behalf of ARA..

Woo pissed on your rug.. (DP).. he’s the carpetpisser.. Mr. Lebowski didn’t micturate on your rug..(Cointaker)..

I’ve got news for you Londonpinball, the war is over.. the bums lost!

#10188 86 days ago
Quoted from seenev:

CT told customers they had to pay another $4000 or not get the game. Imagine ordering something from Amazon, not getting it for three years, then being told it would cost 50% more or they would cancel your order.

The problem is they did not say you had to bay another $4000. You had to pay another $12,500 on top of the $8500 or 9500 you already paid DP. 150% more. And EA's were not even given that chance.

#10189 86 days ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

The problem is they did not say you had to bay another $4000. You had to pay another $12,500 on top of the $8500 or 9500 you already paid DP. 150% more. And EA's were not even given that chance.

Yes that sucks.. everyone is confusing DP vs ARA vs cointaker and who owned what when..

EAs paid 8500 to DP, which DP blew on whatever. Parties, salaries, three month vacations, Jaaps book on “success” and anything else that caused them to not be able to pay their bill to ARA. That’s what you should be mad about..

ARA held these games until they were paid, or DP agreed that ARA would be majority shareholders of DP.. remember DP rejected that? They twice over (at least) screwed EAs.

The Dutch court granted ARA ownership of the games and ARA wanted them sold on the free market (which cointaker helped broker) to reclaim capital for debts owed, and has no agreement with EAs and possibly no knowledge of what an EA even is...

Everyone was given the same opportunity to pay 12,500.

#10190 86 days ago

Does DP still own the rights to TBL/licensing (sounds like there were several, TBL, Brunswick, etc)? Would be curious if it’s still active and how long that licensing agreement lasts. Maybe this was already answered here.

#10191 86 days ago
Quoted from wolfemaaan:

Does DP still own the rights to TBL/licensing (sounds like there were several, TBL, Brunswick, etc)? Would be curious if it’s still active and how long that licensing agreement lasts. Maybe this was already answered here.

A “typical” license agreement is 1-3 years (base year with two option years).. we don’t know the details of their agreement, but with no revenue I’m pretty sure we can safely speculate. The license period is over.

#10192 86 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

This is not copesettic. DP cannot legally build games with parts that have been paid for by one party, in order to sell finished games to a second party. DP either has to declare bankruptcy and dispose of assets properly or wait for some party to sue them and shut them down.

THIS. People saying “it’s just capitalism” are operating under a weird version of capitalism where you can fraudulently say you’ll deliver a game then deliver it to someone else to cover up your insolvency. That’s not how business transactions work. Early achiever payments are a debt needing to be repaid in a bankruptcy. Who should be made whole needs to be determined by an impartial bankruptcy trustee, not by DP getting to pick and choose winners (and preserve their own assets like rights to future games, parts, etc).

I get why financial action hasn’t been taken (it’s almost class action in size, foreign country, etc). But to say the EAs just made a bad business deal is bullshit. They were lied to, in the business world that’s fraud, and DP should be held accountable.

#10193 86 days ago
Quoted from Londonpinball:

I think cointaker should work for FREE on this issue
Why would you expect to make a profit when your cleaning up a mess ??
This is not business as usual and any profit made looks fishy

dude... cointaker was a distributor who had customers of their on in on this deal. They are going mile after mile to make their customers whole.

This isn't fantasyland... they can't be a charity for everyone else who got burned by DP outside of cointaker's transactions.

#10194 86 days ago

It amazes me people still think anything in this thread is normal practice.

#10195 86 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

The parts Dutch Pinball got out of this deal, free and clear, bothers me still

This is nonsense. ARA was getting paid for this... not some giveaway. Its still speculated that ARA needs more money beyond the 40 games too. DP arranged a settlement of their balance due to ARA by orchestrating a liquidation of the assets ARA was holding to convert ARA's inventory to $$. Games went to buyers via CT handling the collection and 'selling'... and DP aquired the balance of inventory, and according to barry, all the IP/tooling.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

This is not copesettic. DP cannot legally build games with parts that have been paid for by one party, in order to sell finished games to a second party

People need to stop talking authoritatively on stuff like this with zero behind it. This is total BS. Inventory bought to fuel production is just that.. inventory. The fact the company has outstanding obligations to deliver orders has nothing to do with what parts they have, or what they build with those parts. Buyers with outstanding orders have zero claim to anything DP holds.. except a liability to have their product delivered. They had no claim to anything ARA holds, nor any claim to individual things DP holds. DP has a commercial obligation to these buyers - that's it. Until bankruptcy happens and the creditors line up to split up the assets... there is none of this "resold the same thing twice" BS. Claiming certain build numbers means nothing until that game is completed goods.

#10196 86 days ago

Cointaker has stuck their neck out for pinball in the past and lost a ton of money (getting screwed by J-Pop.) They have a stellar reputation and, as others have mentioned, are just trying to satisfy their customers.

In no way are they the bad guys here.

#10197 86 days ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

THIS. People saying “it’s just capitalism” are operating under a weird version of capitalism where you can fraudulently say you’ll deliver a game then deliver it to someone else to cover up your insolvency. That’s not how business transactions work. Early achiever payments are a debt needing to be repaid in a bankruptcy. Who should be made whole needs to be determined by an impartial bankruptcy trustee, not by DP getting to pick and choose winners (and preserve their own assets like rights to future games, parts, etc).

Arguing they are trading insolvent is different than complaining "selling the same game twice" or making some claim to DP inventory (which is what the other poster was arguing).

Even if they are trading insolvent... at least here in the states the trustee would look to see if transactions were done in a manner that was consistent with the market and not simply to shift assets. Selling the games as market value to repay obligations is not shifting assets. If the trustee would consider ARA worthy to get repaid before others... that's a separate topic.. but given ARA clearly was the biggest creditor to DP... it wouldn't be far fetched to see such a transaction as being seen as legit (just MHO)

Don't forget... multiple lawyers are already involved in this transaction... and only one party (barry) is interested in covering DP's butt. So lets not all assume everyone is just playing for Barry's team.

Quoted from Richthofen:

I get why financial action hasn’t been taken (it’s almost class action in size, foreign country, etc). But to say the EAs just made a bad business deal is bullshit. They were lied to, in the business world that’s fraud, and DP should be held accountable.

I think everyone is in agreement there. The thing is... the only people who are going to fight for the EAs in that legal claim.. are the EAs themselves. Claims like thinking Cointaker should play angel for DP's faults... or that some magical fairy is going to step in and make it all right is just selfish fantasy. If EAs wanted resolution... they are the only ones with standing to do so.

#10198 86 days ago

DP owns the rights/ code etc... for TBL

DP has to pay ARA for loosing court case.. Judge didn’t award the Pinball’s to ARA - they awarded €€€€ in which DP had to pay.

Only way DP could settle was to come to an arrangement with ARA to release games to sell to get them their money..

Did ARA contact CT.. Don’t think so,
DP contacted CT to get one financial transaction for the pins... far less
Messy..

#10199 86 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

DP owns the rights/ code etc... for TBL
DP has to pay ARA for loosing court case.. Judge didn’t award the Pinball’s to ARA - they awarded €€€€ in which DP had to pay.
Only way DP could settle was to come to an arrangement with ARA to release games to sell to get them their money..
Did ARA contact CT.. Don’t think so,
DP contacted CT to get one financial transaction for the pins... far less
Messy..

So it seems one batch has landed in the states, when does the second batch arrive?

#10200 86 days ago

Ready to be shipped next week I think..

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