(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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15
#10001 3 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

Seriously what did you sell... do you have a clip on youtube? I want to see it!
Did you sell a pinball, I've seen pinballs on there several times.

This helped fund a Monsterbash LE

#10002 3 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

This helped fund a Monsterbash LE

Wait a minute- you “bought it to resell it because you got it at a good deal”.

Smells like flipping!

#10003 3 months ago
Quoted from pinwaz:

Special k is an evil genius

He's neither of those things. But he seems to desperately crave attention, and he's very good at getting it.

#10004 3 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Wait a minute- you “bought it to resell it because you got it at a good deal”.
Smells like flipping!

LOL, I buy and sell rare coins for a living.
Have been doing so for 25 years.
There is no such thing as buying a new ancient coin for resale.

#10005 3 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

Do you watch pawn stars? What do they do in every single show? They buy stuff for less than its worth to flip. What do car lots do... they offer you less for your car than its worth so they can resell it for a profit. What do banks do... they loan you money for a house and when its all said and done they get back like three times the investment. The list goes on... its a pinball game.
If you ran across a barn find classic car, wouldn't you buy it if you knew you could flip it for a ton more? If you heard thru a friend that some guy has a pinball machine in their basement they want removed... wouldn't you go take a look hoping it was some mint condition big bang bar? If the guy said yeah just want to move out this old thing, then said I'd take 1500 are you going to seriously turn around and say no let me get you 15,000.
We have to keep things in perspective here... its a pinball game. If people want to buy them, and flip them there is nothing you can do about it.
Life goes on! I will say people should buy the game because they want the game, I want the game. But people can do whatever they want its their choice.
I will say this however until I'm dead NO PINBALL is worth $30k, just like Beatles isn't worth 25k. But if some really dumb people pay it oh well... the world is full of dumb people. LOL

I don't have a problem with any of your examples. The difference is non of the scenarios in your examples fit what is happening with this game and DP. To fit it into your examples, it would be more like a car lot taking money from person A at $8500 and person B for $12,500 and giving the car to person B without refunding person A. The pinball machine in the basement was not sold to 2 different people with no refund given.

This DP situation would be more like buying stolen goods off the street for a substantial discount and selling to the public for a profit.

#10006 3 months ago
drlebowski (resized).png
#10007 3 months ago
Quoted from Monk:

I don't have a problem with any of your examples. The difference is non of the scenarios in your examples fit what is happening with this game and DP. To fit it into your examples, it would be more like a car lot taking money from person A at $8500 and person B for $12,500 and giving the car to person B without refunding person A. The pinball machine in the basement was not sold to 2 different people with no refund given.
This DP situation would be more like buying stolen goods off the street for a substantial discount and selling to the public for a profit.

The problem is that the “car lot” never paid the manufacturer for the car they were trying to sell in the first place... In both cases of your example the “car” dealer (DP) wouldn’t of had rights to sell the “car” as they were selling something that they didn’t pay for.

The whole thing sucks!

#10008 3 months ago
Quoted from Coindork:

This helped fund a Monsterbash LE

That is awesome!!! Kudos to you!!! I was on several reality shows including Shipping wars! I've been on shipping wars 3 times. I was also the first judge on Pumpkin Wars.

#10009 3 months ago
Quoted from Monk:

This DP situation would be more like buying stolen goods off the street for a substantial discount and selling to the public for a profit.

I totally see your point and its a valid one. I was just trying to make the example of the people who have them now buying for 12.5 and selling them for whatever more. That was my point. Taking advantage of an opportunity that almost every single person on pinside has probably done multiple times over and would do again. You can't be upset with someone who saw an opportunity then tried to maximize on it, otherwise we're all hypocrites.

On your side however I understand where you're coming from totally. I would only say that the people you should be mad at are the people who made those 40 games or whatever and never shipped them. Why didn't they ship them if they had them... I know its a long story, lawsuits, and everything between.

I totally feel for every single person who got screwed. I myself have been screwed several times and there is nothing that feels good about it. However the old saying goes what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I changed how I do business after getting burned a few times for six figures. If I lose a job in the future so be it, I'm not going back to getting burned ever again. I wouldn't buy a machine from a company in Europe, much less a company who has no track record. It seems like it ends up the same way every single time... someone getting screwed.

There is a term I've learned in the pinball community... CASH ON THE GLASS! When you have the game ready to ship call me I'll pay you with a credit card... so once I don't see the game come in I can reverse the charge. This industry is full of people who're trying to con people... cash on the glass. Its the only way going forward I think when you don't trust the manufacturer either put the cash on the glass and take it away or using a credit card. NO CHECKS should be given to a manufacturer who just doesn't have the track record. Sad but its simply true. I just sent JJP a check for Wonka, I just gave a check to Schaffer Dist for my JW I just ordered. I trust those people... some company in Europe no way in HELL!

#10010 3 months ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

I totally see your point and its a valid one. I was just trying to make the example of the people who have them now buying for 12.5 and selling them for whatever more. That was my point. Taking advantage of an opportunity that almost every single person on pinside has probably done multiple times over and would do again. You can't be upset with someone who saw an opportunity then tried to maximize on it, otherwise we're all hypocrites.
On your side however I understand where you're coming from totally. I would only say that the people you should be mad at are the people who made those 40 games or whatever and never shipped them. Why didn't they ship them if they had them... I know its a long story, lawsuits, and everything between.
I totally feel for every single person who got screwed. I myself have been screwed several times and there is nothing that feels good about it. However the old saying goes what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I changed how I do business after getting burned a few times for six figures. If I lose a job in the future so be it, I'm not going back to getting burned ever again. I wouldn't buy a machine from a company in Europe, much less a company who has no track record. It seems like it ends up the same way every single time... someone getting screwed.
There is a term I've learned in the pinball community... CASH ON THE GLASS! When you have the game ready to ship call me I'll pay you with a credit card... so once I don't see the game come in I can reverse the charge. This industry is full of people who're trying to con people... cash on the glass. Its the only way going forward I think when you don't trust the manufacturer.

I agree with what you're saying. This is where some people differ in their own moral compass. To further my example, some people see no problem buying the stolen goods off the street for a lesser price than retail because they themselves did not steal the goods. Other people see it as fostering a black market system that runs off of people losing money from goods that were stolen and refuse to buy anything off the street. Some people think it's ok and others don't.

#10011 3 months ago
Quoted from Monk:

no problem buying the stolen goods off the street

I can tell you I think people who buy known stolen items for resale are scum bags... just as bad as stealing it yourself.

The Big Lebowski games aren't stolen. That is your perspective but legally it was not stolen. There was a lawsuit and a company I guess a creditor I don't know the whole story ended up with assets and sold them. Does it suck for those who had money in on the game ONE MILLION PERCENT! But the people who're buying them now didn't steal them. What should have happened is all the people with money in should have been added to that lawsuit to put a claim on those assets.

The end result is very unfair outcome without a doubt. No one is debating that. Terrible horrible situation. But this happens to companies all the time, and assets go up for sale after the fact. The whole thing sucks I know and I agree but we can't be saying the people buying them now are stealing them. That isn't the case.

Here is what i would do and its not gripping at the people who're buying from cointaker... get all those customers together, and file a lawsuit against the company who sold those assets and I don't mean cointaker. The company who won those assets thru a legal settlement should be sued as a creditor. That lawsuit can still be filed, and I would file it asap. They got 500,00k and you deserve to get some of that money.

You need one attorney representing all the screwed customers. That is your recourse not bashing on the people who bought the assets legally.

#10012 3 months ago

Who knew when this that Barry and Jaap would be considered even bigger scumbag than Jpop and Kulek. Wow..

#10013 3 months ago

I think we are on the same page, or at least a similar page. I am absolutely not saying the new buyers or distributors have stolen anything, because they haven't. I also am aware that there is far more to this situation and legal outcome than I know. That being said I also know there are people that paid for an item in full and that same item was then sold and given to another person. It's hard not to look at that as stealing, whether it's money or a game. The only group I put that on is DP themselves, not the new buyers and not the distributors.

#10014 3 months ago

This has been said many times before:

WHY are the EA's doing NOTHING about any of this? Their window of opportunity is continuing to close shut...frankly it may be already too late.

What is it about this bunch of people that differs from the poor souls on the JPOP/ZIDWARE or Kulek (predator) side that is precluding them from seeking legal action? Those victims teamed up, filed lawsuits and forced the issue.

The nature that this is overseas? What is it??

#10015 3 months ago

I'm one of the last EA's on the list. Makes zero sense for me to spend my time and money getting a lawyer involved. The only way I get my TBL is for the money from these 40 to settle debt with ARA along with Barry getting financing to produce the EA machines along side a run of non EA machines.

#10016 3 months ago
Quoted from Hoss_Coog:

I'm one of the last EA's on the list. Makes zero sense for me to spend my time and money getting a lawyer involved. The only way I get my TBL is for the money from these 40 to settle debt with ARA along with Barry getting financing to produce the EA machines along side a run of non EA machines.

Every time I’ve i hired an attorney it just cost me more money and frustration

#10017 3 months ago

JPOP victims ended up getting something...either a shitty broken Magic Girl, free money from Deep Root or a free game from Deep Root. If EA's were to band together, things could happen....

-2
#10018 3 months ago

It would be nice if the flippers would send their profit back to DP. An honorable way to help the EA’s. Fat chance I know.

12
#10019 3 months ago
Quoted from JimB:

It would be nice if the flippers would send their profit back to DP. An honorable way to help the EA’s. Fat chance I know.

Why would you want people to send more money back to DP? They are the problem in this whole mess.

#10020 3 months ago


Quoted from JimB:It would be nice if the flippers would send their profit back to DP. An honorable way to help the EA’s. Fat chance I know.

This is the funniest post I've seen in a while. Flippers send your money back to the real criminal, the guy that stole the machines, sold them twice, and paid off his debt for running his business into the ground. And oh, he used others money to live off for years, he deserves more

#10021 3 months ago

Sorry everyone but this drama is so complicated that I am confused. Has any "new batch" game been sent out yet? And is it true from what I can gahter that the cabinet... are completely diffrent?

#10022 3 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

JPOP victims ended up getting something...either a shitty broken Magic Girl, free money from Deep Root or a free game from Deep Root. If EA's were to band together, things could happen....

Two problems with this analysis:

1. Neither the AP Magic Girl run nor the deeproot settlement offer were a direct result of the lawsuit against Zidware/JPop, although neither might have happened but-for the lawsuit.

2. Both the AP Magic Girl and the deeproot settlement seem to have resulted from JPop's otherworldly ability to convince other people to cover his bad debts. There's no evidence that Barry or anyone else at DP (if there is anyone else at DP) has access to that same dark magic.

So yes, the EAs could still sue. But I don't see a straight line from there to a third party with more money than sense stepping in and throwing millions at the problem to make good on DP's old liabilities. And who knows what DP’s books look like today, but it's a little hard to believe there are big assets there to divide up in bankruptcy if things go that way.

16
#10023 3 months ago
Quoted from JimB:

It would be nice if the flippers would send their profit back to DP. An honorable way to help the EA’s. Fat chance I know.

Nice try, Barry.

#10024 3 months ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

Sorry everyone but this drama is so complicated that I am confused. Has any "new batch" game been sent out yet? And is it true from what I can gahter that the cabinet... are completely diffrent?

There is no "New batch game" Nothing has been made for several years except for a prototype in china that was a converted original. No new games will ever be made.

#10025 3 months ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

There is no "New batch game" Nothing has been made for several years except for a prototype in china that was a converted original. No new games will ever be made.

So these new 40 games are the same than the old ones? I thought the cabinet was different like a Williams? So confusing.

#10026 3 months ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

So these new 40 games are the same than the old ones? I thought the cabinet was different like a Williams? So confusing.

they have been sitting for 4 years. DP never paid for them so the factory never released them, THen the factory sued DP and won the right to sell them to make back part of what they are owed.

#10027 3 months ago
Quoted from JimB:

It would be nice if the flippers would send their profit back to DP. An honorable way to help the EA’s. Fat chance I know.

Put the bong down.

#10028 3 months ago

Can I sue to have DP’s Vacation schedule and all the funds they used for leisurely travel and throwing parties?

#10029 3 months ago
Quoted from foxtj24:

they have been sitting for 4 years. DP never paid for them so the factory never released them, THen the factory sued DP and won the right to sell them to make back part of what they are owed.

Thank you my friend, so the 40 games being sold are the ones repossessed by the factory, of the original batch?
That makes it even more crooked. So the cabinets are the same too? Sorry to ask but I just cannot my arms around the whole thing. And thank you for answering my questions, regards.

#10030 3 months ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

Thank you my friend, so the 40 games being sold are the ones repossessed by the factory, of the original batch?
That makes it even more crooked. So the cabinets are the same too? Sorry to ask but I just cannot my arms around the whole thing. And thank you for answering my questions, regards.

Not repossessed, DP never paid for them so ARA kept them after they were sssembled. Yes. Barry and Jaap sold the same game twice, took salaries and threw huge parties, all on EAs dime. Total crooks and con artists.

#10032 3 months ago

Sending money to DP ? After you put the Bong down don’t pick up the Crack pipe again !

#10033 3 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

This has been said many times before:
WHY are the EA's doing NOTHING about any of this? Their window of opportunity is continuing to close shut...frankly it may be already too late.
What is it about this bunch of people that differs from the poor souls on the JPOP/ZIDWARE or Kulek (predator) side that is precluding them from seeking legal action? Those victims teamed up, filed lawsuits and forced the issue.
The nature that this is overseas? What is it??

And it has been responded to many times as well. Including by me, when you asked this six months ago:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/172#post-4802674

Going after a company in a foreign country is not the same as going after them in your own. In this case, it is even more difficult when Dutch EA's are unable (or unwilling) to help.

#10034 3 months ago

Problem with suing someone is you can’t get blood out of a turnip . 129 guys at $2500 each retainer fees to start or more
Which you will never see

These future pinball adventures which want money up front is like going to a casino !!!

If you can’t afford to loose all your money don’t gamble at all

Sad but true, hopefully pinside guys will look out for other guys in the future
And these things won’t happen again

#10035 3 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

And it has been responded to many times as well. Including by me, when you asked this six months ago:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/172#post-4802674
Going after a company in a foreign country is not the same as going after them in your own. In this case, it is even more difficult when Dutch EA's are unable (or unwilling) to help.

well.. new for 2019... a new court in the netherlands setup especially to facilitate international civil law issues - https://www.rechtspraak.nl/English/NCC/Pages/default.aspx

And the dutch courts emphasize trying to simplify and expedite simple civil suits to avoid discouraging people.

Dutch side has to be within the jurisdiction of the Amsterdam District Court.

And foreigners can file bankruptcy petitions... secure themselves as creditors.. etc. They also have a small claims court for claims up to 25k euros. Recovery of costs is also an option in Dutch courts. So there is lots of stuff there actually leaning towards supporting people taking legal action. And based on my research, those in EU countries could have sued DP in their local jurisdictions under the EEX Regulation because the goods were supposed to be delivered to them. But it's work, and money up front... no doubt. And it seems DP has been favored by the fact that people haven't been pursuing them.

#10036 3 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

well.. new for 2019... a new court in the netherlands setup especially to facilitate international civil law issues - https://www.rechtspraak.nl/English/NCC/Pages/default.aspx
And the dutch courts emphasize trying to simplify and expedite simple civil suits to avoid discouraging people.
Dutch side has to be within the jurisdiction of the Amsterdam District Court.
And foreigners can file bankruptcy petitions... secure themselves as creditors.. etc. They also have a small claims court for claims up to 25k euros. Recovery of costs is also an option in Dutch courts. So there is lots of stuff there actually leaning towards supporting people taking legal action. And based on my research, those in EU countries could have sued DP in their local jurisdictions under the EEX Regulation because the goods were supposed to be delivered to them. But it's work, and money up front... no doubt. And it seems DP has been favored by the fact that people haven't been pursuing them.

Thank you.

Perhaps Kaneda and the other TBL flippers will contribute some of their profits towards a legal fund?

I know ... put the bong down.

#10037 3 months ago

of course there was the fear also that bringing legal action against DP would just force the issue to getting pennies on the dollar. But maybe people feel otherwise now that they know the games are moving without them.. Tough spot no doubt.

#10038 3 months ago

Anyone ever been in a car accident where you got hit by a drunk loser who had no insurance and was flat broke and you looked at suing them for rightful damages? Yep, same thing. Can't get something from nothing and you are screwed as far as making the responsible party pay. Guy has moved on to a newer car, now has money, etc, but I can't touch any of it (he keeps everything in his girlfriends name). My only saving grace was my own insurance.

I still have a bad back from the accident just to remind me every so often... I would imagine it's like seeing the DP machines for EA's.

#10039 3 months ago

Were talking about lawsuits again and outsiders are still telling other people what they need to do. Welcome to Groundhog Day.

zzzzgroundhog.day_.clock_.deb_ruzinsky.model_.art_-1024x495 (resized).jpg
#10040 3 months ago
Quoted from Cobray:

Anyone ever been in a car accident where you got hit by a drunk loser who had no insurance and was flat broke and you looked at suing them for rightful damages? Yep, same thing. Can't get something from nothing and you are screwed as far as making the responsible party pay. Guy has moved on to a newer car, now has money, etc, but I can't touch any of it (he keeps everything in his girlfriends name). My only saving grace was my own insurance.
I still have a bad back from the accident just to remind me every so often... I would imagine it's like seeing the DP machines for EA's.

But you CAN get something from nothing!! See the deep root / JPOP saga for proof. Those victims are getting something albeit indirectly. Forcing the issue with a lawsuit cements that any angel investor has to address the victims of this fraud. If the EA’s do nothing then an investor could come in and just move forward without addressing that issue.

#10041 3 months ago

If DP sold the rights to the game to another investor they wouldn’t automatically assume the debt, in most cases they would be free n clear to build it under another name

#10042 3 months ago
Quoted from whitey:

If DP sold the rights to the game to another investor they wouldn’t automatically assume the debt, in most cases they would be free n clear to build it under another name

Don’t think you can do that legally, I think debt would follow? Otherwise everyone would do it.

(Unless you claim bankruptcy).

#10043 3 months ago

Has any game been shipped yet to new owner?

#10044 3 months ago
Quoted from bladerunner:

Has any game been shipped yet to new owner?

Negative. You see this truck right here? It was taken to a warehouse where it was decorated with streamers, paper, and christmas lights, along with a "OOOOO-GA" Horn then promptly driven in the current 3 week Dutch national holiday parade that spans all of the major cities. The kids love it because they throw beads and candy from the top of the truck.

At the end of the 3 weeks, once everyone recovers (approx 3-5 more weeks), they are going to be unboxed and inspected, EA Plaques removed, and reboxed. By then, it will be time for another 2 week holiday. But don't fret, the games will most likely ship out soon after that.

a2c9b6a3ae77cbf264d3a512db92209a5c1e8608 (resized).jpg
-5
#10045 3 months ago
Quoted from Cobray:

Negative. You see this truck right here? It was taken to a warehouse where it was decorated with streamers, paper, and christmas lights, along with a "OOOOO-GA" Horn then promptly driven in the current 3 week Dutch national holiday parade that spans all of the major cities. The kids love it because they throw beads and candy from the top of the truck.
At the end of the 3 weeks, once everyone recovers (approx 3-5 more weeks), they are going to be unboxed and inspected, EA Plaques removed, and reboxed. By then, it will be time for another 2 week holiday. But don't fret, the games will most likely ship out soon after that.[quoted image]

That’s a cool story and all, except, as usual completely uninformed. My game and 19 others will ship today.

#10046 3 months ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

That’s a cool story and all, except, as usual completely uninformed. My game and 19 others will ship today.

what about the other 20?????????

-1
#10047 3 months ago
Quoted from estrader:

what about the other 20?????????

I’m not in the second wave so I couldn’t tell you.

13
#10048 3 months ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

That’s a cool story and all, except, as usual completely uninformed. My game and 19 others will ship today.

Your sarcasm detector might need a tuneup. :p

#10049 3 months ago

I wouldn't feel like pitching in any $ in regards to TBL, any more than I would pitch in to the relief fund for victims of Bernie Madoff. This is a luxury toy, not life-saving medication.

#10050 3 months ago
Quoted from s1500:

I wouldn't feel like pitching in any $ in regards to TBL, any more than I would pitch in to the relief fund for victims of Bernie Madoff. This is a luxury toy, not life-saving medication.

Was anyone asking you to?

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