Why would Ben appear on Kanedas podcast? I hope he took a shower afterwards.

He has been on it numerous times. Like many of us, he apparently enjoys it - warts and all.

One of the things that I don't agree with Kaneda on though - and have told him as much - is his potential purchase and flipping of a new TBL.

Ugh, I like Ben Heck but I can't go down the Kaneda road again... can anyone give us the broad strokes please?

To be fair to Chris tho, I feel like most of the pinball podcasts these days are kinda annoying.

Which facts were wrong?

Which speculations are better to use?

Some are saying other people don’t know the facts, yet then don’t point out what part is incorrect or offer alternate speculation. This thread is a great place to share all info and to sort things out.

Wow. I had no idea people hated Ben Heck.

zzzzBEN-HECK 1 (resized).png

We basically just discussed how meaningless "100 games worth of parts" is as far as making new machines go.

Love me or hate me, I still made the first successful boutique pin so I'm not a total dunce on these topics.

If he gets 10 games built it will be pretty amazing. Then maybe he’ll sell remaining inventory to pinballlife so people can buy spare parts. That would be a small positive development in the saga.

Why would he stop at 10 if he has parts for 100, even if they are meaningless...?

Because building pinball is hard. If all it required was putting square and circle shaped blocks in place, any moron could do it. Turns out it takes a special kind of moron to succeed. I guessed 10 games because I am thinking Barry will try to do something with one other person helping (two people).

They take a long time to sort what they have and don’t have. Note - this is different than looking at part # on a list. Pick each part up, inspect, test, return to stock, order what’s missing and work towards receiving that. In reality there is no time to custom order and receive parts, so what is on hand and can be located is all they will ever have.

They will build games in the meantime at rate of 1 game per week. This might be too high a rate. 16 weeks from Sep thru Dec. So 16 max games thru Dec, but I think they will stumble from beginning so reducing count to 10. Why did I only count weeks through the end of year? License expires end of 2019, so all games must be built before then.

How do I know? I don’t, but have heard it from a few people that I trust. This is a big assumption I am basing all my comments But while others speculated it had expired based on common sense, I choose to rely on additional sources. You can’t build new games without a license so my version of having the license for 2019 makes sense. Have you heard differently? Maybe it a is for longer or maybe it has expired.

So what will Barry do with warehouse of parts to build 90 games after Jan? They will have no value to him and cost to store. Marco and Pinballlife buy bulk parts. Win/Win. Or maybe he should mail remaining parts for free to Owners. Haha that won’t ever happen.

Or henjust sells all parts to a distributor or pinball parts website for resale to owners....

If there were enough parts to build 100 games to completion. And those parts were sitting in a factory. And that factory contract manufactures every day of the year. That factory built 90 production TBL’s to date and are the only ones to have done so. That company is ARA and they are uniquely qualified and have huge competitive advantage to build the games. Yet ARA will not be building the 100 parts games.

A big mystery for doubters is why? It would be so easy for ARA to build these games because they know how to do it, they know how much it costs, they have inventory in hand and a supply chain to order all parts. I guess they also know type of company DP is, balance still owed them by DP, balance in DP’s bank account, the real status of inventory, status of license and probably DP’s latest scheme to get rich. No, something is rotten in Denmark! ARA wisely will be taking their ball home and quitting the league.

They are making more machines and have planned on making more for about 6 months while all this was being negotiated. I can't reveal my source. Believe me if you want. I believe my source.

They are not telling the buyers of these machines being released because, just like DP was, it's pure deceit to influence the overpriced market based on limited #'s and perception that no more machines will be produced.

Those that are excited to get in at $12.5 now better sell fast.. once the other 200 plus machines get rolling who knows where the price will be then. More machines out there also equals less spare parts if/when machines break, etc.

200 plus more machines?? Hey I'm a dreamer and even like an occasional fantasy flick but lets try to keep this realistic. I VERY much hope they can pull off additional supply but we might want to manage expectations on the scale of this dream.

I think we know which side of that duo is getting the upvotes and which side the downvotes.

For somebody who can’t even get the country right you seem to know a lot of things about DP .....

I don't.

If/when more games are made I have confirmed from "my source" the new price will be $12,500 and that wont include shipping.
(I also believe my source as she has far more info than anyone in this thread)

More games equals more spare parts in the long run.. so more games is better for everyone as the community has shown that parts will be made if there are enough games in circulation to create demand.

It was a joke. If you’ll remember reading Shakespeare from high school days, in Hamlet he penned ... there’s something rotten in the state of Denmark. That odd sentence always stuck in my head.

edit - Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. A line from the play Hamlet, by William Shakespeare. An officer of the palace guard says this after the ghost of the dead king appears, walking over the palace walls.

Thanks, that is a new piece of info and it is interesting to learn of pricing plans. Whether they ultimately succeed at making 10 or 200 or any more TBL, the intent is to offer them at $12.5k. Maybe this knowledge will curb some of the resales of this current batch and keep the game affordable in secondary market.

I won’t ask whom the rumored company is because if DP is the one making and selling new games for $12.5k, while owing 190 games to paid in full EA’s, that sounds criminal and an illegal way to run a business. If it is someone else making them, I’d ask how they got TBL license and pinball rights. This sounds like a half-baked scheme with more holes than a pound of Swiss cheese. We’re better off not know whom.

Why do you think people hate Ben Heck?

The down votes could be for a condescending comment that "he's a man worth listening to."

Was that meant to be condescending, do you think? I took it as a well-deserved endorsement of Ben Heck.

Yeah — not sure how you get condescending out of that comment..?? pretty obvious who any downvotes are meant for..

Are any of these new 200 machines planned to be delivered to the EAs or is their money lost forever.

I mean, F*** at some points when you cash in someone's money it comes with some responsibilities.

Ok ? So your source says 200 games but what about the 129 EA that got hosed

40 games is tough to digest to EA guys
But if they build and sell 200 and none to EA guys that’s Rediculous

I think this prediction really sparks a huge lawsuit

Pinball was never like this

Here's a good laugh. In 2014 I posted on the DP Forum asking about EA ordering. Just found my old post: http://www.dutchpinball.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37

burningman told me "Being an early achiever myself, with the refund policy they have set, you really can't go wrong with getting in on this now, vs. waiting until after Expo..."

Different times man. Different times.

You're way off base my friend. Unless you don't care for Ben... Here's my quote.

"With DP, you can get a full refund as long as your own machine has not gone into production."

Interesting comment... but I think the actual "condition" that DP stated you can get a refund was before they went into production (I.e. with the first game), not before your specific game was put on the production line...

New Canasta preceded AMH by 4 years...

I thought Special K was a boy, since he still slept in underroos and has a superman banky?

One thing is for sure- this is still a shit show!

**** What word is used every 90 seconds in TBL movie? ****

dude ! 161 times

Didn’t know “man”

Correct

Correct

*** keep guessing ...

Right, but those newly produced machines "she" is talking about will have different electronics and components that are incompatible with the old games, right? So now, potentially if this is all true, you will have "Batch A" and Batch B" games, all with various different electronics and components.

Either way, to me, TBL seems to be kinda risky to buy? But good for all those making the move forward. I just hope I can play one locally when it's all said and done.

Interesting thread progression, seems like everyone is all over the place on this one.

That being said, I had the pleasure of unboxing one of the early games with a friend several year ago, and I absolutely loved the game.. felt like a late 90's Bally/Williams that is/was themed in one of my favorite Movies.. wish I had been the one to land that one.

I am also sorry for all those on here that have lost money with DP, I couldn't imagine how angry I would feel losing that kind of money. Hell I had a $300 camera stolen while on vacation and it consumed me to no end.

Congrats to the new owners going forward also, best of luck with such a great game and hopefully there are no issues going forward.

Here are some pics from that unboxing, I knew it was a rare moment but at that time we didn't know all of the remaining machines would not get delivered...

6I4A0112 (resized).jpg6I4A0114 (resized).jpg6I4A0118 (resized).jpg6I4A0131 (resized).jpg6I4A0133 (resized).jpg

That’s one impressive truck.

Great post ! I will pray to the pinball gods that all EA guys eventually get to enjoy
The same moment

Nope they have “truckloads” of original parts to use or as I was told roughly 50 to 100 games worth of original parts that were produced using the original DP/ARA design. If DP does build more games they will be using existing original parts which are the same as the 80 to 90 games already produced. I truly hope all EA’s get their games.. especially RTR!

Side note I was looking at the bowling alley mech in the video posted above and thinking what this must have added to the BOM, it’s quite a mech!

23E0B0C5-B8CF-43A4-B4F9-42DE7584A3DA (resized).png

Never seen one until the pics - looks like lot goes into it.

Also other pictures show very packed pinball - lots parts - not surprised at BOM or manufacturing costs being high.

If anyone thinks the original EAs are getting those games, well, ill eat the Crow that RTR is supposed to eat!! No way all or half of the games are going to the EAs. If, somehow THOSE 50 to 100 games produce enough $$$ for additional games, then maybe, just maybe EAs become whole.

**** What word is used every 90 seconds in TBL movie? ****

Man, Dude and the F-word (twice) are heard every 90 seconds. Bowling is suggested often, too.

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I was told the wholesale price on the bowling unit was $1,000. Given the pretty limited payoff that seems like a bad value.

One of the several parts of a build that I would doubt exists in inventory. Without that part, no new games will be made.

You meant "bootique," right?
I am a fan, but not because of pinball. I like people who take cool things apart.

Thats exactly what I was saying a few days ago. One poster keeps saying that if they have 90% of the parts, they could get to 100%. If they don't have the bowling mech, they might as well have 0% of any other parts.

maybe they could think of making a pro model that moves the bowling modes to video modes. i do agree.. as cool as it is, it doesnt add much to the game.

Hard to see people paying $12.5k for that.

Mostly just cool factor, but sheesh at $1000 per unit wholesale that's crazy!