30K???

Bahahaha, a little OT but how hard does John Goodman steal every scene in that flick??

The best in the business. Not worried even a little.

Either am I

That's a very impressive line-up you've got there whitey !! Some very obscure titles!! Amazing!!!

Thank you

This makes me almost as sad as seeing Donny go.

It's very un-Dude. It was bound to happen. And honestly, I was fingers crossed on a few CT people selling so I might get a chance at buying one too. But this is ridiculous and greedy. I hope "Private Collector" takes his profits and pays back some EA's or something. I have no idea by what mechanism that would work, but profits like this should go at least in some way toward those hurt.

I flagged his FB post as a potential scam. He doesn't have a game in hand. It is still semi-speculation he gets a game until I read somewhere CT actually confirms they received games.

Unless you are prepared to pay 20k+ I wouldn’t wait on one coming for sale. Some will, but most will stay at home.

I don't think any of us know what market price will be when 40 (or is it 38?) games hit the street but we can agree they won't be 30k - right? That's looney tunes. If it's 20k its 20k, but that guy's post seemed greedy and cash grabby.

My real hope is at least some of those "parts for 100 games" is true and they make it market sooner than later. Someone, somewhere, will build more games from them. Not sure how the community would value a Frankenstein TBL assembled from spare parts, but I think they'll eventually happen if the parts exist.

I use to have an 81' DeLorean. That Northern Ireland factory shutdown in 83 (various financial issues) and those parts, supposedly some to build 5-10k cars, eventually ended up in Texas. Today you can buy a brand new 83 DeLorean from those new old stock parts.

Only time and greed will tell.
I'm betting more people wind up flipping them than you think.

Im in Texas. I will be on the lookout.

The 'private collector' is very brazen in placing this ad before the game is even in the same country as him! If I were Coin Taker I'd try and find out who it is and refuse to sell it to him on the basis that it's not going to a good home, and pass it to the next in line... there must be a queue of people wanting to appreciate this game in their homes!!

Let's be realistic here. Many of these machines are going to be flipped before they even land or shortly after. Is Cointaker supposed to screen all of their customers and make them take a loyalty oath? How do you know the next in line as you suggest wouldn't do the same. How long will new buyers be allowed to keep the game before they can sell it?
No retailer or business would do something like this and that's an unfair burden to ask of Cointaker.

If you go the Pinside Market Place you will find 2 or 3 WTB ads that sprang up immediately after this announcement. I assume they are still there. Are they considered a part of the problem?
And don't kid yourselves, we live in a dog eat dog world and all of these machine being quickly sold out and now being flipped was completely predictable.

My heart breaks for the EA's and that's why I'm hopeful Dutch Pinball's long shot plan works. Whats most important here is that the EA's get restitution and not how others are profiting.

Unfortunately.

I agree - Cointaker aren’t at fault here. DP chose to sell them the games instead of offering the EA’s a chance at the new price, which I think reflects poorly on them even if most wouldn’t have gone for it.

I also don’t think that those who bought the games to unbox and play are at fault either. The people who are buying the games just to immediately flip for profit without even opening the box are the absolute worst though. Fuck those guys.

Edit: I do think the games were underpriced though. I’m sure they would have sold at $15k+, which would have increased the chances of the EAs getting their games as the outstanding debt to ARA would have been paid off quicker, and it may have made those looking to buy and flip think twice.

I was thinking about this last night, and if I was DP this is how I would have handled the 40 games.

1. Offer them at $12.5k to the existing EA’s by order number. For each of the first 40 who pass the next in line gets offered the game until all have either bought or passed. Neither option would have any effect on them receiving their previously paid for game down the line if DP make it that far.

2. Sell the remaining units not bought by EAs via a silent auction with a reserve of $12.5k. People who didn’t pre-order would have 24 hours to submit their bids to Cointaker. Let’s say only 10 units were bought by EAs - then the highest 30 bids received by Cointaker would get a machine at the price they bid.

This would have been fairer to the EAs, generated the most cash possible from the non-EAs who bought via Cointaker, and may have dissuaded people looking to make a quick buck by buying and flipping.

It would also have given the EAs a chance to guarantee themselves a machine, albeit at a much higher total cost but probably less than they will be selling for NIB on the secondary market, or allow them - the people who deserve some financial reconstitution - the chance to flip and recoup some of their original investment.

The more I think about the way it was handled the less I like it.

Paying 20K for a game or 25k in my mind just puts more demand for this game to be made again. Almost like a strategy

It was more wishful thinking than a serious suggestion to be honest...

Your idea is great if time wasn't an issue... but I think the reason they were rushed out of the door was heavily time pressure related... it would have been perfect to do it as you suggested though!

It could have been done in 48 hours - 24 hours for the EAs to respond then 24 hours for the silent auction. I really don’t think that sort of delay would have had a material impact on the situation.

In normal circumstances, no... but according to the podcast Barry was literally getting the games out on the last day before ARA shut up shop for 3 weeks...

So EA's should have had first crack at buying their own game twice? Makes sense on paper but if you're DP and scrambling to get out of debt you know it's easier to sell a game to a newbie for 12.5k than to expect an EA to pay a total outlay of 21k.

Think about how badly that would have gone over - "As thanks for being our original investors you have to pay way more to get a game than randos!"

Seems DP underestimated costs at a catastrophic level. If they have to sell 140 games twice to even have the money to fulfill original orders that's really, really bad. Like they were off by double bad. That wouldn't even be acceptable in government

I don’t think it would have gone over any worse than the current situation - at least it would have given them the choice to secure a game. We all know that those 40 games could be resold NIB for more than $12.5k, so why not give the EAs the opportunity to buy and then flip to help recoup some of the original investment if they wanted to? The message now is “Thanks for being our original investors. You’ve helped 40 other people buy something you’ve already paid for, and at less than market value. Now sit back and watch the opportunists amongst them make a profit”.

Alternatively, it would get them a game now and if the plan works out they could sell their original game down the line. I don’t know how many would have gone for it, all I’m saying is that they should have been given first refusal. If no more are made in the future then I imagine they’ll hold their value at around $20k - just look at BBB. There are close to 200 of those compared with approx 80 TBL.

Can’t argue with you there. What a disaster.

Its easy to look st something and say
Well ? You should have done this or that ?
Maybe DP or ARA instructed CT to sell these games, sell the next batch, then we will get to EA game buyers ?

Do as instructed or the next guy will
It’s business, I’m sure there were plenty of distributors ready to jump in .It won’t be hard to see who is a collector and a flipper in a few weeks. Time will tell

Great minds think alike

I think they underestimated the cost by 1keuro... that's all ARA wanted extra per game to continue production... the reason they are so much debt now is not because of an underestimation of the cost to make the games, but because of the massive additional costs if setting up a 2nd company to manufacture and then the legal fees re the ARA disaster...

They were broke before they went to China and Zytech. They were living off of EA preorder money for years. They did not pay ara because they couldn't. Barry may be a good pinball designer, but he is a shitty business man. There is a reason Phil left when he did. Whe should have all taken our refunds and never looked back when that happened.

Comical that they came to a settlement and the immediate concern is the 3 week vacation the Dutch are taking. LMAO.

Since we are awaiting news of any kind ...

Most people discussing how DP should have disposed of the hostage games are forgetting rudimentary facts. 1) DP is out of business (assets = 0, liabilities = $1M. This has been primarily true for last 3 years. 2) DP lost ownership of 40 inventoried games because they never paid ARA for 90 total games built 3) ARA is being permitted to sell the hostage games thru CoinTaker with coordination by DP. 4) 40 games were sold to 40 CoinTaker’s preorders.

Normally DP would have had to declare bankruptcy and that process would have included court appearances. ARA would have had to declare assets and liabilities and claimants would have been given a period to stake their claims. Here we have finished inventory being sold outside of normal manufacturing channels, under special circumstances and at inflated prices, by a brokeass company. So all bets are off.

Any and all ire that is due should be directed at DP, not at ARA selling these games to put money into their own pocket. It was DP who assaulted EA’s and DP did it alone. The suggestions for selling these games that people are giving do not take into account a judge ruled they don’t belong to DP. Any company in ARA’s shoes would want to find a single distributor or two and to move the whole block of merch quickly. They found CT and life moves on.

Who cares....

Go send a message to those first 40 people that got their machines, left them in the box and just sold them for $20k plus. Look in Pinsider archives and see recent sale below!

Pinball is a business, money makes the world go round.

Yes, I do feel sympathetic for the EAs - but focus your disgust on DP!!! Everyone else is making the current, thriving pinball world go round (buyers, players, collectors, flippers, etc.)

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I see the "OBO" there. Maybe I can offer $100 and some memes.

They were living off EA pre order money from the beginning... that's the idea behind the kick-starter project, no?

Do you really know that for a fact?? My belief was that they didn't pay ARA because they wanted an extra 1k/game and they refused in order to not pass that cost back to the EAs... if they couldn't pay ARA, how were they able to spend a fortune setting up the Chinese outfit? Are you talking from facts or assuming?

From memory Barry & Jaap told us ARA wanted an extra 1000 Euro per game and 51% stake in DP.

It is a fact. They spent no money on a new manufacturer. Zytech fronted the money. Rumor is Zytech now wants to be paid so That is more debt DP could be in.

51% ARA stake in DP = Barry and Japp insta-fired. I'm sure that's the biggest reason they didn't take the deal.

Also how on Earth did they go from just needing 1k more per game to having to sell games twice? That's a huuuuuge difference - maybe that's why ARA wanted the company? They'd recoup the debt by building even more TBL?

DMC HQ is north of Houston. https://www.delorean.com/

Has facilities in CA, IL, and FL.

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I don’t think CT had 40 preorders left - some games went to Nitro and some people on this thread that didn’t have CT preorders either bought or had opportunity to buy games.

DP continues to shoot from the hip, making dumbass decisions. Selling these games at 12,500 when they were already changing hands at 20k is just more of the Dumb and Dumber show.

So many opportunities to make this work missed. They have succeeded in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Dude ! Your way out of your element

A couple of machines traded at 20k in a period of uncertainty as to how many machines would enevitably be released. This is by no means an indicator that 40 machines could be sold and absorbed into the market at the same level. Also some of those machines sat for a while and did not emediately sell at 20k.
There is such a thing as market saturation and while some of them may have sold at that level I doubt the majority of them would have sold at 20k(just my opinion).
Keep in mind that in 2018 you could have bought one of these for around the 12,500 asking price (give or take). It was only in the last year these peaked in price. I just don’t see that price being sustainable when the known population of the game is doubling.

No, they ran out of money before... which is why they couldn’t pay ara for less than 1/3 of the games they had already collected money for. The dispute about a new price is just Barry fog IMO. Ara held the games they had because DP already owed them big I bet.

As for why DP was dry...Don’t forget they went in and redesigned the hardware.... after collecting money... and did all the work to make the prototypes into actually producible games. All that took time and money. Plus of course paying themselves during that time too.. while they were woefully behind schedule.

Completely blowing your schedule sinks most new products because the spending doesn’t stop... and you have no revenue coming in to stop the hole from getting deeper.

Everyone needs to chill and play some pinball

And consume a few beverages!

And smoke a bowl !

The time to bale was before Phil left.

It was after hearing Phil spew his arrogance at Expo. The same show where they wasted all that preorder money on a ridiculous party.

He set the tone by behaving like a rock star before actually forming a band. There is a video of his arrogant presentation which was a clue of the mismanagement facing DP.

Can someone post this video please, I was not there
Cheers

Here is "a" video shot in a penthouse. Not sure if this is the party.

Cool thanks would love to get the presentation as well if anyone can dig that up . Cheers