Like most things - that's just what the earlier deal was... not that it prevents future deals. It wasn't an 'LE' situation.. it was what the plan and negotiations were set around.

It was inference started by Barry himself in the newsletter. It was also pretty strongly reinforced by posts in the private thread by unigroove and Rensh - two people that Barry tells information to as a means to get it released on pinside.

Here is the excerpt from the newsletter:

" ... The settlement we agreed upon means that we have to pay off ARA, and in return we will receive everything Dutch Pinball related that ARA has stored in their warehouse: A number of finished and unfinished games and the complete inventory of parts. Besides that, the court case will be voided and this means there will be no more legal issues that prevent us from continuing our business and start building games again; first The Big Lebowski™ Pinball of course, and hopefully many more beautiful games in the future!"

Then the news that the hostage games were to be sold through CT, with the proceeds going to ARA, was released at approximately the same time. The way the NSNL letter was worded was like an if/then - if they sell all 40 games at $12,500 and the proceeds go to ARA, then the court case is voided, the parts for 100 games are DP's property again, DP is back in business, etc. Not out of the realm of possibilities - this would have been a haircut for ARA, but that happens. Now we know who is really in the barbers chair.

Then today's 'news' from a podcast that says Barry's debt is not resolved by the 40 hostage games. Now the news is the parts for 100 more games, once assembled, will be used to "pay the remaining ARA debt and get DP into the black prior to the building of any EA games". It doesn't say if 50 of those games will pay the ARA debt or if 99 will. It does say that EA's are out of luck on those 100 games.

I get that Barry did not give enough information in the original NSNL. My point is that pinbarry has an infuriating way of telling a small part of the story that sounds good, but then dribbles the bad parts out over time.

Like most of the information Barry provides, it did not have a lot of information in it. It could be 1 game or all the games. He doesn't believe he needs to share that number. Or much else.

Which is precisely why you sue him. If Barry doesnt have to answer you truthfully or in full then why would he? He just wants to be out of debt himself meaning personally and DP wise because yes lawsuits can spill over personally if any guarantees were made I would imagine there are now. Barry must be sooo happy everyone has just laid down and let him do exactly what he wants with parts and machines that in any other circumstance, would not be his to sell again and again. In business you put a suit in to get answers, truthfully in full answers. What you do after that is entirely then based on facts not Barry and friends polished info they want you to have.

I don't agree with you in that reading. It simply says '...we have to pay off ARA...' - it doesn't specify how much, or how. Others inserted that the games would satisfy that payment. I can't speak to posts from the private thread... but that's what he said in the mail to Kim, and the NSNL was virtually a copy/paste from that.

People like to fill in gaps.. vs acknowledge the gap is there. Just another area that would have been so much easier if DP were transparent in things...

The good news is... things to-date have not really slipped from the schedule CT shared before. Still on promises... but not broken promises yet! The probability of these games landing now is all but certain.. what comes next? who knows.. but you gotta think Barry has no interest in storing 3 truckloads of games and parts for no reason. So who is on deck to try to push TBLv3 to the finish line?

I would guess the reluctance is because he is not stateside?

That's more realistic than the statement that he has to sell the 100 games to pay ARA, which was your initial statement...

Regardless of future production prospects, I hope that there is support for those with games...sad to see these two examples at Sunshine folded up for years with little hope of needed parts.

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Wow That sucks. Expensive and darn good paperweights!! I do not believe there will be any support avaiable for to 40 inbound switches either.

Asian-American, please

unless ARA is going to warehouse these parts during the break, it appears barry has a lot more to move in the next 24 hours than just 40 assembled games: 100 additional unassembled games, and the 'more expensive parts' for yet 100 more. if there really are 200 loose cabs, pfs, bowling alleys, rugs, shot glasses, etc sitting at ARA, hes going to need help relocating and somewhere to put these parts.

big x-factor still remains transparency on the settlement terms. if the sale of the the 40 hostage games is shy of what is due ARA, what percentage did it cover? big difference in how manageable the future looks if it took care of 75% vs only 25%.

who paid for the remaining parts at ARA? if they were all paid by DP then EA equity remains in this inventory, which is a good thing. if ARA fronted money for any parts then DPs settlement liability to ARA may be even greater.

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Does any have list of what TBL specific parts are the ones that tend to fail/ need replacement. Any feedback on number of games played before failure?

My understanding is there is parts for up to 100 more games. Not 200.

You missed important details in your recounting of Jonathan’s tales: 1) ARA will not release games BEFORE being paid. 2) Barry will be paying for the games and that is expected to occur this week. Barry wants the games moved by holidays (you mentioned this one).

So ARA is being paid this week, when DP doesn’t have any money. So this must be the CT funds, right? The same CT who promised games would be inspected before they were paid for? Jonathan makes it sound like hostage games will be bought first, moved second, inspected third, upgraded with software forth and shipped to buyers fifth.

I’ll say it again, CoinTaker needs to be on the ground to inspect ALL inventory ahead of time and to pay for the goods only after they have personal verification. We also learned 3) Barry has opened one box with one game and one box with parts and 4) that Barry was satisfied and then he promptly ended his inspection.

Maybe Jonathan got the details wrong. Who knows? What could go wrong?

You think CT would release 500 G,s without having games in there
Possession? Or at least in a escrow account.

Video of CT preparing DP's payment:
https://i.imgur.com/TvIJzX9.mp4

*kidding - of course (how they ~SHOULD~ - prepare payment to DP)

^^^ Time, now that’s funny

I was listening while doing other things.. so yeah, could have missed some connecting points

The details as I recall was that they said games would be inspected - not necessarily 'before being paid for'. The uncertainty here was to cover that what was shipped was as expected.. but again, it gets messy here with who really owes what, etc.

Is there a 4th party involved? Aka who fronts Barry the money he needs to get ARA to the point of releasing the material? If it's more than the CT money, that means Barry, someone behind Barry, or a 4th seat at the table. We don't know how big the gap is, so no idea how significant or not this is.

All I know is... little birdy details have told me that say the deal is on good footing and on schedule so far for the 40 games to get to DP.. to be processed and onto the shipper. Now we wait...

Yes, yes I think they would...

Ask that another way. You think ARA would release 500 G's worth of pins without payment received?

We don't know if this is true or not yet. The information from unigroove says that ZERO of the proceeds from the 100 games goes to producing EA games. So the only two named recipients of that money are ARA first and then DP second. How much of that money do you think DP will get to keep? I think most of it goes to ARA.

pinbarry could clear this and a lot of other things up if he wanted to do so. He has nothing good to say, so he is saying nothing.

The didnt release them before, why would they release them now... And I still think Barry is just going to do a cursory inspection. "Yep, there is a pinball machine in the box, tape er up!"

I can see it your way too. Barry leaves a lot to interpretation and inference.

They have to unbox them, open them and remove our achiever plaques. If I see someone unbox a machine with my EA plaque on it I will loose it for real.

You think they'll leave the EA plaque under the glass for the new buyer? Imagine how much manpower that would be just to remove.

Why risk damaging the Aprons removing them ?

Per podcast (if you believe them) some percentage of 100 games in parts will also help pay off original ARA debt.

Also very big is those 100 games in parts need to be manufactured and will cost like $1 million it was stated in podcast.

So if the 100 games in parts become games and they sell those that’s $1.25M. Assuming 12.5k price again.

So that leaves $250k left to possibly pay off remaining ARA debt (not covered in the second round of 40).

What is clear EAs will not get any of those 100. It was said after those 100 EAs could start to get some - which require more parts and sales!

Based on this hope - plan...if DP does not pull off this plan, but makes these...40 + 40 + 100. This game will still be very rare like BBB volumes and will keep the price very high.

All the above barely keeps DP in business- basically he has to work for free. At some point he may say screw this for no pay.

So foxtj24 and his 39 other EA friends don't lose their rug, man?

Selling 40 TBL's at a 30% markup to new buyers (aka sold them twice) didn't settle the ARA debt?

Now they need to magically assemble 100 more TBL out of spare parts and once again SELL THEM TWICE just to get into the black? (aka back to zero)

OMG. This company is f'd beyond belief. No wonder Phil rage-quit and refund spammed people back in 2014.

They sold approx. 150 games at say 8.5 k US, which is 1.275 million us dollars. They then sold 40 games at 12,500 US, which is 500k which takes us to 1.75 million for 90 games delivered at 19, 444 per game collected if you were to average out. The bom was suppose to be roughly 6k each when in discussion with Barry. So where has all the money gone between the cost, 6 k per machine, and 19,444.00 that he has collected to date on the 90 machines delivered ? The old one for you two for me business practices are alive and well at DP ! Makes me sick and yet there are those still believing in DP and Barry.....wake up

That's one thing that surprised me about the podcast. Where are they getting the money to pay ARA to release the games this week if CT isn't paying up front? It doesn't add up.

That’s fubar. Phil was rightfully concerned about the legal ramifications of being a director of a company that was holding money in one entity, promising games from another and spending money from a third account and backfilling with IOU’s. It was partially self preservation that caused him to blow the whistle on the scam when he did and his actions were responsible for many people getting their money back.

It blows my mind that DP is still “in business” five years later. It must be exhausting to sell every game three times and still be losing money. That’s like being in a deep hole and digging faster to get out.

I have been thinking about this ordeal and most of my curiousity revolves around the lack of inspection of built games and parts. It appears at first blush that only a cursory inspection by a compromised individual has occurred and will occur before purchase. I ask myself why.

Why doesn’t CoinTaker demand to be present and to inspect items for themselves?
Why didn’t DP inspect and take a complete inventory before the sale, when there are parts rumored to build 100 more?

Someone is being setup for disappointment and I think that person is DP and ultimately it’s customers. A complete and verified inventory would dispel uncertainty and reveal what is true. Why do I think this? Because nobody has insisted on an inventory and because ARA doesn’t want to build the games. That’s right, ARA has said your parts are in boxes, but don’t look closely. There are parts to build 100 games but ARA is requiring parts to be moved from their premises (a factory) and they won’t be assembling the games. Wonder why? They have experience, the parts are present, it should be easy money for ARA to build them. The only conclusion I can draw is that the parts are a mess. It may turn out that only enough key parts exist to assemble ten games. By the time inventory is taken and missing parts are ordered the year will be over and the license expired.

Listening to the podcast, the parts are already warehoused, and will remain that way for the 3 week break. Barry will only get the games out. The cabs are not part of the 'parts for 100 (or 200) games', all cabs will need making for the next batch of games. Regarding how Barry will pay for the games before CT hand over the cash due to them only doing so after the games are inspected, I don't know the logistics of that... maybe CT have paid upfront, or maybe Barry got the funds elsewhere, or maybe he has an agreement with ARA to pay later when he gets paid by CT... or maybe he's not getting the games out and the podcast was talking bullshit... time will tell...

My guess is the set up cost of 2 companies to start making the games, lawyers fees due to the ARA mess, flights to China/USA and bottles of Kaluah.

keep going! What salaries did these guys take? Since no one has sued them yet, they have only disclosed they had to take salaries by law of the Netherlands. What they didn't say is it legal to put the money right back in to the company till its off the ground or indefinitely duh!

Hookers and blow.

Thanks for the encouragement, you too

No idea.

It doesn't surprise me that they didn't say that... I'm not sure what it even means... I guess I'm dumb...

The point is that they spent a LOT of money on one-off costs that were supposed to be spread across 300 games, not 90... your calculation forgets about that... and they did it twice re manufacturing... once re the licence... then there's the unexpected lawyers fees... it looks like you like to imagine that Barry stole the money, but you have to take into account all the costs before you draw that conclusion, surely...

What the Heck! It's very interesting that there seems to be a tendency to twist all information to paint the blackest possible picture... it reminds me of my wife!! First of all it wasn't said that they have to sell all the next 100 games in order to break even... that's pure negative speculation... and 'in the black' is not limited to meaning 'back to zero' as you allude to... it can also mean making a profit... (aka millions of dollars). Sorry for the lack of negativity... but the right time to say it's all gone to shit is when it's all gone to shit, no? There's a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, and some people seem to only want to piss on it... of course you might be right, but saying it like it's fact is wrong.

I admire your positivity pinballslave , but in light of everything that has happened, any reasonable person should be skeptical of anything that involves Barry and Dutch Pinball.

Jeff you are talking out of your arse.. you know nothing..

This thread just goes round in circles..
FACT- Inventory has been done- this was required by the judge..

If you are so sure licence has expired - shoot an email off to Rodger Sharpe. See if he responds, being a private client matter he may not. I have been told that licence is still there..

This thread makes me laugh.. When something FACTUAL arises I will share it.... on the private EA thread

I'm skeptical, I'm just not making things up or ignoring facts to paint the most negative scenario skeptical

Inventory created for the judge - probably, but who did it and who certified it? ARA would have been the one to create the inventory right?

Inspection - not done. Jonathan says in interview that parts and games were boxed and moved within warehouse. Further that he and Barry recently visited and Barry opened one box with a game and one with parts. That was the extent of inspection per Jonathan.

I have said license is good through end of year, hence Barry’s need to make haste to build the games before January.

The concern about what these truths mean is my own conjecture. I don’t know but some of the reasons I can think of ARA won’t be building the 100 games aren’t flattering. 1) DP has no money and ARA doesn’t want to deal with a bankrupt company 2) ARA doesn’t trust DP 3) ARA doesn’t want to do business with DP 4) ARA knows the 100 games of parts will only yield 10 games 5) ARA doesn’t want to build games and then wait around for years to be paid 6) ARA has problems with the license or that it is expiring soon etc.

Why does ARA, a contract manufacturer with parts to build 100 games and unique knowledge of building TBL not offering to assemble the new parts games? Manufacturing is what ARA does every day and is how they make money and they don’t want to touch toxic DP. They should know exactly how and what it costs. Instead they say pay us first, take your merchandise AND then accept it as-is with zero warranty. Something is fishy regarding the parts and ability to build more games and ARA has taken note and acted in self interest by cutting the cord with DP.

You missed out the 'and they were pristine due to them being stored in a climate controlled environment' bit... just filling in the gaps... obviously with this spot check there is little incentive to spend hours maybe days opening the other 39 (or 37) games and the countless boxes of parts... don't you think?

If they don’t open how will they remove EA number plaques and bump code?

I think the built games are legit. They were built to level of professionalism ARA built all games and they were stored in climate control. The games should be perfect. The number of completed games is speculative, maybe there are only 5, but definitely less than 40. The issue with built games is with the chain of custody and who touches games and who pays whom?

Another issue is around inspection of the parts. Let’s say there are 2000 parts in a game and 100 games worth, that is 200,000 parts that must be identified, marked with a number, tested, stored, inventoried and staged for production before assembling machines. That is way more effort involved than will be done for completing this sale. For this effort they would want to open all boxes and match against parts list and quantities.

This is so basic a need, you hardly think it would be necessary. You may be assuming ARA and DP are acting honestly and in good faith. History has shown both parties have acted in ways that only benefitted themselves. I don’t trust either and from what has been said about CoinTaker’s involvement may be holes in their approach. If they truly pay at the end and right before shipping, that would be swell. If so, then who is paying initial ransom to release games?

For the tenth time. Every game will be opened because the EA plaque needs to Be removed and the unreleased new code will be installed.

I'm intrigued by the software. The last version I saw was 0.43, so it will be interesting what changes were made to get the Made in China prototype to work. Then would this version be 100% compatible with the games made in 2016? At a bare minimum I would request version 0.43 software download as a backup in case the version updated on the 40 games has any incompatibilities.

Here is the only video I was able to find running version 0.43. Do any owners have a more recent version?

Jonathan said ...

Pay now. Move games next. Inspect games, remove EA and install code. Repackage and transfer games to shipper. Ship games to customers. Move parts soonish. Build new games with parts.