I think all of us will be upset if you end up getting your "1-Year Sobriety Chip."

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I'm telling myself late Q1 '16/early Q2 '16.

Maybe by valentines day is where I'm thinking.

I'm in can't wait, probable summer of 2016. Drinking more Caucasian's than normal. Jackie makes the best,

Since we have time check this out. I got this today marked down from it's previous price:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JGU4OHA

Nice I remember hoping the playfield art was going to use that artist / be that style. If I only had known the licensing issues with that given all the other ways their hands have been tied since then its amazing the playfield art is as nice as it is.

err... what's that bit mean? Have they reduced the rule set?

I was referring to Jaaps talk from DPO. He said that because Hotel California is playing during the scene that introduces Jesus, they can't use the video clip cause they are not allowed to remove the music score from the clip. This seems like they are backed into a corner.. no licensed music + no video clips where licensed music exist. Wondering what audibile level does music eliminate a clip.. Is it because the Jesus scene had it in foreground or that it had it at all ... if you listen close, the music fades to background but not eliminated until well into the dialogue.. 8 year olds dude.

So, there are a multiple scenes like that.. With music in foreground so much that one can imagine the same rule will apply.. Like the entire trampoline scene has music in foreground as well... So its unfortunate in retrospect they picked the trampoline for the kick back as there may be no clips allowed to go with it. Taxi scene is well off the charts on the out list under these restrictions I bet as well.

Anyways stuff has gotten complicated for them and I'm not optimistic at this point that the game will be exactly what they wanted to give us. Hopefully some of which is fixable for home use. And enough clips do skirt all the limitations to still give the movie vibe.

To add: I think part of the problem now is, it's <3 weeks from the 2 year anniversary since i and others put the first deposit down. That is plenty of time to build up expectations, and for a long time they were being met. So, kind of a bummer man that the various setbacks are being realized here at 11th hour.

If the SW demoed at Expo and DPO was farther along and we could see that there is enough content still available to work with that it's still going to be awesome, maybe I'd feel less tepid about the whole thing right now.

It's just that the theme IS the dialog.. so, clip approvals is pretty core to tie the whole pin together.

The delays don't bother me, but the lack of any meaningful updates to the software that we have seen has dampened my enthusiasm somewhat. As you mention it's been almost two years since I put the first deposit down, and well over a year since I've seen what the game will look like, yet I still have no real idea of the rules apart from the flowchart that they sent out a while back. Really hoping that we get to see more soon.

Trampoline scene is the perfect example. From the DPO clips it is clear that we are getting an animation in place of the Treehorn scene. A lot of stuff is out the window here. Almost everything from the bowling alley has music behind it. Rug inserts were obviously designed for direct clip tie-ins. They dodged a bullet on all of them except the Maude art scene. It will be interesting to see how they get around it.

You guys are bumming me out. Thank God that I have Stern's forthcoming Bedknobs and Broomsticks game (WITH original songs) to distract me while DP finishes TBL!

I must say I have lost quite a bit of excitement for this too. I'm hoping they release some more information soon and the "can't wait" attitude returns. I love everything DP did with BoP 2.0 (minus the lack of communication there too), so I guess I'll continue to hold my breath. With Hobbit hitting the line very soon, I'm starting to wish I put my money elsewhere (or could just get out of TBL and buy different game).

I've said it before here, I'm tired of the rollercoaster this project has been. I have been taught one hell of a lesson to never pre order again. NEVER.

Come on DP... Throw us "ACHIEVERS" a bone....

Brian

I think it will be a fine, quality pinball machine though.. That part I'm not worried about at all. Granted, $8500 is a lot more tolerable than the current price.. Now that JPOP has crashed and burned, TBL at current pricing is the most expensive machine on the market.

Concerns for me are just around theme capture I guess, which is the only reason I'm in on this. Otherwise I would of gotten a MMR ... And still possibly be waiting

I have become a little bit deflated on the whole thing myself. Still trying to stay low-key and optimistic about it, though.

Given the nature of contracted manufacturing, my understanding is that once DP has given the green light, machines will be cranked out pretty quickly. I think JJP will be very slow at the beginning of production and, at any rate, you would be near the back of the production run at this point. My guess is that buyers will begin to see both of these games in the first half of 2016. At 2+ years, that still puts TBL way ahead of TH.

Hang in there, good stuff is just around the corner.

No doubt this has thrown a wrench in things. Some of the most quotable parts of the movie are married to the music soundtrack. Going back and watching it while assuming that all of those scenes are out, there is still a lot of great stuff to work with. Such a shame that the Jesus scene is unusable. Any fan of the movie who is not aware of the licensing issue, will surely be baffled as to why the most quotable scene of a movie filled with quotable scenes is absent. As you said in an earlier post, hopefully it will be fixable for home use.

Part of me wonders if this business about the scenes and the music is a miscommunication - the Dutch guys have been confused by the nature of U.S. licensing lingo before - perhaps they're confused about what the licensor is/isn't allowing about is just playing it safe. I'm just thinking about other games that use video clips or audio from movies...Spidey, TF, Iron Man, BDK, WOZ, Hobbit - they always scrub the existing BG music out - but they're allowed to use clips & voices.

let me know when production cranks up on Something Wicked This Way Comes. I'm all in.

Was wondering about that, but i'm not in the business.. Not being able to scrub out the music seemed to be more restrictive than typical, was thinking about those same examples. I would of figured Roger was translating lingo for them but maybe he's not.

I only know what I read on Pinside. Good thing that it's all reliable info.

Hopefully they'll look into this, would be a shame to strip out those bowling alley scenes (among many others) unnecessarily.

I also wonder if the video clips could be made user-replaceable like the sounds. Could allow for custom work-arounds if they really aren't able to do much with clips from the film in the official release.

Unfortunately video seems like somewhat harder to just toss in later. There would need to be something to replace.

So picking apart the Jesus intro

Clearly , from 0 to 1:30 is what Jaap was directly referring to as out. But you can still recognize the words up through 1:40 where it drops into background 'noise'. Then volume back up slightly when Jesus starts talking at 3:25. I would hope 1:40-3:25 is clear, that's core dialog. Looking beyond that, Jesus is pretty much out I would guess since they turn the volume back up into 'recognizeable' (but still background)? All depends on what these rules really are I guess. As always, just my opinion man.

Definitely hope they quadruple checked that they really can't remove the BG music.

Actually it was not a wise man that said this. It was a jackass idiot that said this.

QSS

I don't get what's wrong with seperating the video-clip from the music... I just don't get it... who's that gonna hurt?? It's painfully pointless red tape BS from what I can tell... Hopefully some clever people can make an aftermarket 'unofficial' fix for all this ridiculous licensing nonsense so we can have the game DP wanted to sell us!

Honestly I don't know how you can still be "confused" at this point. No excuse for that

I know time flies and dates get blurry the older I get but didn't the announcement come at Expo last year. I thought that is when I put $$ down

2 years?

2 years on December 23rd, 2013. If you recall, at expo 2013 they started a mystery count down timer.. It wasn't until the timer ran out on Dec 23rd that you could pre order. At that time they said games would ship Q2 2015. So they are about 6 months late from their target .

What you are keying off of was their huge presence at expo 2014. That was a year in, during about an 18month quarterly $1500 payment schedule from the Dec23rd,2013. Prior to that was a year of really cool reveals of pieces and parts to the game. Was a great ride.

However, sitting here today we've known what the game will look like now for 12months.. Just down to software, which is where all these licensing challenges are popping up.

I remember that for sure. Seems like I met some 2014 pre order Expo deadline to opt in before the price went up. Did you guys get it cheaper in 2013?

They stole the show in 2014 at Expo.

we got in at $8500, not sure where the price was at by Expo 2014.. maybe the same still?

Yeah after expo 2014 they were trying to close the pre-order window for all the goodies (rug, chrome). Phil meltdown I think left the window open a bit longer as there was too much turmoil.

Got it. Now I recall, you guys were truly early adopters then.

The fact that the build is being done by outside contracting is a good thing. That would give me hope it will happen quicker.

Yep.. dream theme. You must of been too busy being JPOPed Ah, how a couple years changes things

Would it be possible for users to load their own wave files during the muted music or dialogue scenes? It would be some effort, but HUO collectors should be allowed to do this.

Nothing based on past efforts should prevent anything for home use. Its only going to drive up future sales.

Nothing is worse than waiting for a pin that seemed done. But here we are. These guys should simply give the studio what it asks for and then just leak an update that puts everything back in. Call it fan made, whatever. So easy to do that.

Yep yep yep ... SIGH.

Just sittin' here languishing in TBL limbo.

Couldn't wait, so I had to get my dude on for Halloween

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I like the way you do business Jackie.

Hah yeah given the progress they showed leading up and including their expo 2014 unveiling of 3 working games.. There were a few of us (me included) that were wondering if they were actually going to ship early vs 2015-Q2. Then Phil meltdown sort of sobered everyone up.. And really started the long slog towards production we're on now, and hopefully close to the end of.

Absolutely classic! Well done.

White Russians still rock!!!
But I fuck'n hate The Eagles...

I had stars in my eyes after Expo 2014. Dutch Pinball was really impressive. I got cold feet when I sobered up a couple weeks later. Backed out before Phil Gate.

But man, they talked a good game. The reaction at Expo 2015 to their progress was pretty muted. But I'm still hopeful the final package will be great.

You took the Pomeranian bowling?!?

I didn't take it bowling. I'm not buying it a beer. It's not taking your fucking turn dude.

What's this day of rest shit? What's this bullshit? I don't fucking care, it don't matter to Jesus

Thanks for the quote guys..

Man, I am scared to watch the movie again until game is out.. Little worried I'm going to sit there with a notepad (mental or actual) and note all the scenes that have foreground music. Was just sitting here trying to think of a quote and first thing that popped in to my head was I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in... Then it dawned on me that that isn't even dialogue, that's Kenny Rogers. Then I realized that song is the entire dream sequence.

Trying to reserve judgement that they can still do something or let us hack it into something. But otherwise, darkness has washed over this dude.

I was thinking about this yesterday. I am concerned that it may take a lot more effort than most people think to replace clips and get the missing dialogue inserted. Even with Stern music pins, the tracks have to be the same length. That task seems pretty straight forward when thinking about making video fit a predefined length parameter. I am thinking an entire rewrite might be in order.

Yes, I agree.. Replacing some background music is one thing. They would have to purposely do things in ways to make it ameanable to swaps. Luckily, since we are sitting here and sounds like clip approval has been a challenge the entire time, its likely this has already been somewhat modularized by the developer(s) to avoid getting jerked around by which clips were going to be available (to make it easy on himself). So I have above zero hope

Also, unlikely but wondering if they would consider open sourcing the thing if what they end up being able to provide legally is less than stellar.. which would allow tweaking for home use vs total rewrite.

"like a black steer's tuckus on a moonless prairie night."

Theoretically, since I know licensing laws are different in different countries, couldn't DP make an EU edition, that uses more extensively the music and video clips with proper clip length, etc. But also make a US edition that is more nerfed, but compliant with licensing?

Who knows.. Nothing about this world makes sense to me. Guessing because at end of day, its universals license to do with as they please. So there's s probably what you can legally do vs what would piss them off you have to weigh. And who knows, Euro could be even more problematic to deal with than if it was USA company.

A lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous.

I will add, looking at the full landscape of games in development right now.. I'm still most impressed with this package. The fact that it happens to be my dream theme is a blessing and a curse. Curse cause I have such high expectations about theme integration