Oooooooook? Then why chime in at all if you're gonna be all squirrelly?

Any distributor besides Nitro who bought some for 12.5k and sells them for 12.5k to a customer is certainly forgoing thousands of dollars. If you know of such a company willingly giving up many thousands of dollars, put me in touch!

You said it man !

A local theater where I live has a program called "flash back cinema". They play old ones but good ones on the big screen every Sunday.
They had TBL a few months ago. I went. Was so much fun, actually I think I enjoyed it more this time, nostalgia?
What a cult movie!
Although the Coen brothers collected many more accolades for their other movies, TBL is by far my favorite.
Only played the game once, but it felt like a refreshing BW type of game in the Stern/JJP era. Not trying to bash anyone, I own games from all offenders but BW, still has this "je ne sais quoi?" feeling, IMHO.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/je%20ne%20sais%20quoi

Does she take it bowling? Does it have papers?

Why not throw the dog away, or better yet have it kidnapped/dognapped?

.

2E551FB0-7274-4659-978E-6B522EC2D128.gif

Wow, missed a lot.. got a message from the original buyer about the recent events, been so busy with the new house.. Is this really happening? kinda feel like a D now..Dam, maybe i should just bail.. think I would feel horrible otherwise.. should I just pay the full $12,500. $16,300 CANADIAN. What do you guys think? Man, thought this was a long shot..was just effing around. lol, $1000 for TBL. My gut hurts.

I'm really interested in this, what do you think are the hallmarks and qualities of a 90's B/W games vs modern Stern games?

I think Canadian Maple Wood+ syrup.

Fascinating, so it was all in the cabinet lol

Also, as a dual Canadian-Aussie (born in Canada but live in Australia now), I feel the price gouge. Ouch! Pins are so expensive here in Oz, even the junk ones are $3-4k plus! JJP games are 10k or so, ugh!

No doubt..Where in Canada? Would you do it all over again? Just got into electric skateboards... not missing the pins lately,lol... good for evening beers tho, and shrimps on the barby. Haha!

Bad news, DP/Cointaker are NOT about to ship a game to you. As part of the DP/ARA settlement they've just sold off the machines that were sitting in dry dock at ARA to new buyers. So those will not be going to the EAs (or those such as yourself that bought out EAs). If you and the other EAs are ever going to receive machines, it will require DP to a) start new production (presumably in China), and b) generate enough revenue to cover the cost of sending machines to people that had already pre-paid.

All good, didn't expect anything out of it...Just having fun, and Kevin got some hard earned dow back.. looking good if this goes forward. Its an amazing game! I'm in for $12,500.

How many EA are there that’s paid in full? So outside of DP finding funds to cover production, never going to happen. They’re going to cover the number of machines paid in full times $5000+ (cost of each machine). EA don’t hold your breath, this was a cash grab for money owed to ARA, CT and reducing debt owed by DP.....game over

I asked for my deposit back like a week before this. I would have loved to get one for $12,500. Damn. I haven't seen it confirmed by either distributor that they are sold out. I guess I'll call both in the morning.

about 185 paid in full. about 50 delivered = about 135 people paid at 8500 (1,147,500) owed to the EA's. Cost to make was around 6500 ($877,500) needed to break even.

To make the story complete about old and new money. If there is a profit $ 1000 per TBL you need to sell 888 to generate enough money to give the EA's their machine. In this calculation we forget the transportation cost from 135 machine which also roughly $ 50.000 so another 50 TBL to sell to cover it. The break even will be after selling 938 TBL's.

Saw this on Mr Pinball Classifieds...

6722EF58-DDE0-4C7E-BBF7-B31A1B63D681 (resized).jpeg

Doesn’t the 185 paid in full orders include the 40 with a $1k deposit at CT that wasn’t lost? The cost to make each was closer to $5k (ARA is owed $500k for building 90 games plus parts inventory to build 20?? more. We’ll call it 100 games. As a reference, LE’s with toys like GB, are alleged to cost Stern $3.5k - $4k to build). If you agree, adjust your figures accordingly.

No

6500 per machine was a number given to me by a previous DP employee. Stern orders tens of thousands of parts and does not us a proc. That is how stern builds games much much cheaper.

Was that for Chinese manufacturing though? Obviously it's all extremely speculative, but if they got that up and running they'd presumably have some serious savings on labor over the EU.

All I know is, I hope I can get one... I hope someone is flipping as I missed the boat. I did have CT put me on a list of people who would want a game if someone doesn't pay or whatever other circumstance but I'm not hopeful at all so it'll be secondary market for me.

Jeff

China is off the table according to last NSNL

With current tariffs there's no way they could be made there. Let alone with DP's track record, nobody will touch them

Is there a summary somewhere of the current situation? The 40 "hostage" games have been released? New games beyond those will be produced? Trying to catch up!

Really short version...
Hostage games released and already sold by CT/NITRO for $12.5K USD.

Future production unknown.

Preorders didn't get an opportunity to pay more and get them?

Is future production likely?

Nope and Nope

If you pre ordered through CT or Nitro, then yes.

The distinction is this: if you preordered directly through DP then your money was pissed away years ago. If DP sells you a game now at $12,500 but credits you the $8,500 they already took from you, they clear only $4,000. If you preordered with CT or Nitro, on the other hand, the distributor held your money all of this time, so selling to you now brings $12,500 in fresh money into DP (with which to pay off ARA).

If you’re asking whether the DP preorders were given priority to spend a fresh $12,500 and receive a machine, that would have been a thoughtful gesture but I don’t think that’s how it was handled.

It wasn't. Early Achievers (those who paid in full for the game and were thus first in line) were not given any opportunity to pay more and buy these games.

Wow. Garbage.

This is all about money, there is zero regards to who should have had the first crack at the remaining 40. Who wants to loose 1k or more in a deposit if they dont have too? All Barry wants is as much money as possible to pay his debts to ARA, simple as that . If there is no legal responsibility to the ones paid in full they have the run of the camp. I am guilty for not bothering to organize a legal stance against DP so I have zero credibility to criticize . I feel bad for all those paid in full and did not get this opportunity

I’m not sure what the thought process was for CT. They were under no obligation to sell the 40 games to the EAs. They had deposits from many people. Maybe not morally right, but my guess is they were obligated to those with the deposits.
Personally, I had a CT deposit and could’ve got one of the hostage pins but didn't need the game, so I offered up my spot to one of the EAs at no profit or gain.

How so? The BS way this has played out or my post?

If the latter, I was #59 and paid for one of those 40 games 5 years ago. I was given no opportunity to rebuy it. Instead, someone who supposedly only paid a $1,000 refundable deposit was given the opportunity ahead of the remaining 130 EA's who collectively made TBL's existence possible.

^^^ Merica...............Joey

Saying that those with deposits / or paid in full should have had first opportunity to purchase. No legal obligation? No documents were signed by both parties as part of the preorder process?

???

Wanna play the TBL numbers game? Bring a bottle of booze and case of beer. World Population is 7.5 billion. Number of people satisfied with the distribution and sale of 90 TBL pinball machines is ... 1,094

50 EA’s paid $8.5k each and received their game, but these were never paid off at ARA -> Barry and Jaap committed grand theft larceny on the day these games were delivered, when they had no money nor ability to pay for them.

40 orders made with $1k deposit at Cointaker. Sure their purchase price jumped $4k but the game’s value rose more and they have a TBL.

ARA will be paid for work which they had to write off their books. They will receive a $480k windfall for 2019 and ARA’s employees annual bonuses. ARA will not be producing any more TBL’s and will wash their hands of DP once the last promised cent clears their bank.

CoinTaker will fulfill it’s TBL orders and meet their obligation which they they created when they accepted deposits. Hopefully they have dibs on a boatload of spare parts to support owners. CoinTaker succeeds at getting 40 more games into the world before they hit dumpsters and were lost forever. Not entirely altruistic, CoinTaker will earn some lost money back through this transaction.

Jaap is freed from this mess to focus on his health crisis.

Barry gets ARA off his back and sees more games in the world. He also gets spare parts and plans to assemble them himself to earn some running money. That he still owes thousands to vendors and suppliers and 80 TBL’s to EA’s is of little consequence. The license will expire this year and have no value then. The rights, tools and institutional knowledge to build TBL have limited and rapidly declining worth, without a license. This is a deep hole, so expect DP to declare bankruptcy by year end.

1000 people who may come across and play a TBL.

AND if you don’t see your group mentioned above .... you were probably fu@Ked in the A**

Thanks Jeff for the blow by blow summary.

Brutally, honest..

More than that I am #187

Withing these numbers, there may be

a) a lot of Cointaker 1k people
b) more that jumped ship after the EA number reveal by Dutch Pinball

So I'm quite sure there are are no 187 games payed for in full.

I know. Key word in my post: REMAINING (those who haven't received their games yet)

I'll see your 187 and raise you 3.

190.

I'm #178.

Hopefully the paid in full preorder pin from a startup company is now a dead concept. If these companies had a sound financial plan, they would be able to get all the money they need from any bank out there. The fact that no financial institution is willing to finance them should set some glaring alarms off.