Time to dust off that Bride of Pinbot 3000 or whatever it was.

This sounds like a Ponzi scheme in the works.

Take everyones money.. .then gain confidence from those that lost the money that if they just give more, everything will be delivered as promised. And the second batch of money gets taken and never seen again also.

No thanks, I'm out... unless I can buy a machine that's in hand from a reputable dealer, I wouldn't send a penny too these jackasses

Unless there's some sort of guarantee backed by a reputable third party, I think you'd have to be crazy to give these guys money.

Why would DP be allowed to sell games before paying off ARA? That's the rub... ARA needs to be paid. Why would ARA settle for anything less up front? They already have the judgement, they already have the goods. A settlement from DP just is a quicker path to get real money instead of having to deal with further bankruptcy and liquidation problems. So incentive to give up some $ to get it done and over. Not incentive to fund an underwater operation.

ARA is just one of the creditors against DP. Barry wants to paint it as 'light at the end of the tunnel' - but fails to address the #1 problem. WHERES THE MONEY LEWBOWSKI?

Sure selling the 40 games to new money is an asset he would have to lure in an investor... but they need the money up front. Nothing has really changed here... except the potential to get the ARA monkey off their back. With that main creditor off their back... maybe someone is crazy enough to lend them money.. and fund a new batch of games via the china builder. But again.. all that takes money.

Before: DP needed money to pay off ARA to free up the games and reach a settlement to move onto the future
Now: DP needed money to pay off ARA to free up the games and reach a settlement to move onto the future

Maybe Barry has a large life insurance policy on Jaap?

Depending on what Paying off ARA means the only painful (to EA buyers) is to tell ARA we have 40 12k deposit buyers with funds in an escrow account through Coin Taker for 480K. Use that to hopefully pay the dept and Pray there is enough to continue this whimsical adventure of how Not to do business.

The funding plan will never get off the ground, nor will any future manufacturing. But as for selling off the assets ... ARA will be listed on the receiving account. Uncertain whether as a single business or a joint signatory, but no money will leave that account without ARA's approval. Do you think ARA will be sympathetic to other Vendors or EA's owed money? No, therefore 100% of money collected selling hostage games/parts will go directly to ARA.

Once ARA has been paid in full, they will instruct their lawyers to send a letter to the courts requesting the original judgement be voided and a package to DP's lawyers. Inside the box will be a severed middle finger with dark green polish and a letter pinned to the knuckle warning DP not to contact them again. That's aboot as subtle as waking up to a severed horse head in bed. You want a severed horse head? I'll get you one today by 5pm

When asked about the future of TBL pinball and what the settlement means to Early Achievers, Willy Wonka said it best
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Well, well, well............

Like i said months ago and so many just laughed it off.

couple of steps behind here but you are getting the gist finally of what's happening

Feel bad for Jaap

So once again I've tried to come up with a solution

LOL! He means he's backed into the same corner he was way back when, and all his previous altruistic actions did was squander time and money.

This. If he had any confidence in this plan at all, let him do whatever it takes (mortgage home, etc) to get the money to free that stuff up and move forward. Will likely still need new buyer money along with fulfilling some EAs.

The only "once again" may be to figure out how to get others' money up front. Much easier than squandering your own money. Skeptical if he'll be able to go down that road again, but never know, a lot of greed / FOMO going around here.

Recurrent cancer is very sad news for Jaap and his family and friends. But I don't see that the EAs should be focused on his health -- the key fact is that DP is out of money and needs to somehow raise a bunch more if it wants to ship the existing games or build new ones. Regardless of whether Barry is telling the truth now about Jaap's diagnosis, no oneis going to trust DP with any more money without a solid guarantee that their game is complete and will ship immediately on payment.

Getting to that point seems daunting. Unless they can convince a new investor to pay off their debts and provide new seed money, DP has to get EAs to accept that the ~40 already-built games are going to be re-sold to new buyers to generate money (and continue waiting patiently rather than suing), get Chinese manufacturing up and running, get a reputable third party (e.g. Cointaker) to act as an escrow agent so new money will actually come in, and generate enough surplus on schedule to pay ARA in line with whatever the settlement says. Here's hoping DP can somehow pull all of this off.

If they start delivering games, even to New money, things change. I appreciate many in the hobby won't touch DP until EAers are happy.

But I'll bet many more nonPinsiders and nonpinheads won't give a shit and will just buy.

The question then becomes does the momentum gained from New sales from selling old ARA inventory (shafting EAers again in the process) will be enough to restore confidence to float further sales to do a 1-to-1 ratio of new sale production: EA sale production.

But we're still light years away from even that.

It's a fairy tale until any deliveries actually come in to ANYONE, New money or otherwise.

and hopefully many more beautiful games in the future!

Gahhhh, this has a familiar ring: reminds of Plopadeuce's salutation on Nate's podcast about Zidware's comeback.

These guys would be a good match to work together. No matter what happens, some guys never gain any humility.

New machine prices are $12,500.00.

As others have said, this only works if ARA is paid off first... How does Barry get several hundred thousand dollars to make that happen? Credit is likely destroyed by this mess. Angel investor? selling BOP 3.0 for a couple years? The profit per game to close out the debt they owe would have to be substantial. If not it will take years to payoff the ARA debt.

You can be sure paying off ARA is more than just the 40 completed games. There are parts, unpaid work, and probably contingencies around lost future work, etc. But what the number ARA would settle for... well, that is between the parties.

The scenario where a bunch of buyers all get together, and are willing to pay DP, so they can pay ARA, and then get all the stuff down the system.. is a tough road. Don't think for a minute DP hasn't taken notice of the avg selling price of these games or other 'high end titles'. They would want big big money for these games. Then they would use that money to pay off who ever fronted the ARA 'loan' and hope to fund new production.

More than likely is rather someone to bankroll the ARA payoff, for the position to sell the games at a profit over some monies returned to DP.

Imagine someone like a Ballypinball or some of the other money people behind HWP swooping in, fronting money, just to sell the pins.

But it all hinges on how much the ARA payoff really would be.

Taking the reply for what it’s worth my favorite part is the start with Lebowski and many more beautiful games after. Yeah right at this stage your still even imagining More titles let alone buyers?!? Lol.

You are rediculously hard to follow... you switch back and forth between scenarios mid thought.

"funding won't get off the ground" -- then follow up with "once ARA has been paid in full". These are not sequential thoughts!

You're suggesting ARA will let the assets go, so they can be sold, before ARA actually gets paid. Why would they do that? They already have a judgement against DP - DP has almost no assets themselves and are underwater. Anything leaving ARA without being paid up front is basically asking to go further in the hole to DP. Your whole 'joint account' theory still hinges on the idea DP is stable enough to not just take more liability and fold up.

Pretty sure by now ARA knows exactly what they can and can't do with the assets... with DP alive or liquidated. You and I do not.

But that was my point earlier. If ARA has Any chance of getting a dollar out if this Ponzi scheme they will need to get creative. With Coin Taker as the middle broker holding ALL funds they could allow them to sell all 40 making payment Only to ARA directly. As I said while a crap deal to EA buyers that could net 480K plus to at least make them close to whole and DP could never finance another party with those funds. Guessing anyway. They would sell easy. Sadly the only win would be to ARA and Coin Taker.

$12,500? I'm out. You still have all the unknowns (being stuck with a game with no replacement parts, buying a game that's been sitting for 3-4 years in an unknown warehouse (climate controlled or not?).

Too bad this has come to this. All of those that have been in for so long are still hosed btw.

The games never sold for more than $7.5k, right? So why guess a starting price so high? I’d guess they will be offered between 7.5k (price before 2nd compan crash) and 10k (expected pricing after EA editions) before taxes, shipping and import tariffs, which may add another 1k-3k. DP’s approach will be interesting.

iceman44 ARA will allow the sales to go forward only because they will be listed on the bank account. All sales will be deposited directly into this account, duh, and ARA has full access to the money when it rolls in. If you were ARA, what is not to like? ARA will dictate where the funds are sent and when they can be withdrawal. They won and Barry wants to make them whole first, evidently.

Might not be a long wait before Big Lebroski’s from China, start entering the market. I’d buy one for $5k to join the EA club (Early Awakers club).

Don't kill the messenger, but this is what I heard from a reliable source who has had a deposit down for quite some time.

The new price of $12,500 has been confirmed.

12,500 + shipping ?

EA prices were $9,495 with rug and chrome trim before the April 1, 2015 order deadline. There was a price increase during the order period. Earlier you got in, the lower the price ($8,500).

I got an email from Melissa at coin taker. $12,500 games are being delivered via DHL air freight. $12,500 is the all in cost for delivery to the U.S. and to your doorstep, as well as insurance.

Coin taker collects the money and released upon positive receipt of game by DHL.

Had the prices remained around $9k i would probably bite.

I am really surprised that CoinTaker is going to be involved at all, in any way, under any circumstances.

So, wait..are these $12,500 just the hostage EA games, but going to new buyers?

No idea

I'm sure a couple of guys who recently bought the game for $20k aren't feeling too good about this price either.

God bless Cointaker for everything they do, including helping this whole situation out. They are SAINTS IMO.

That being said, the price increase sucks and my follow up to this is- with the freeing up of TBL to be produced down the road, how will they be produced (by who) and how much will they by (Continued at $12,500) or is this the knee-jerk price to snag those that have been desperate for a NIB TBL?

On top of that, will the newly produced games be the same boards, parts, etc.

All questions that need to be answered for those moving forward!

Also, where is Universal on this? Do they have any idea what's going on?

Could someone please summarize the 180 pages in this topic for me? Interested in the goings on.

EAs who want a game should just one of these at the new price. Then you have a game.... and can deal with your "owed" game as a separate transaction and owed later. Then sell that... or just accept that loss at a later time.

So new customers get the game built in Europe and the EAs get the games built in China?? Hmmmmm....

$12500 requires deep pockets; however, gamble is they will not make more games based on licensing expiring, DP having no money or investors. Probably a safe bet as EAs and others will not back DP. So, maybe the game will command that price. 40 or even 100 more will classify the game as rare find.

Are we absolutely sure we have all the facts straight?

a) Somehow DP will be selling machines for $12.5K and we believe they're selling to new buyers who will buy through CoinTaker.

b) The EAs aren't in line for a $12.5K pin unless they create a new transaction.

c) Somehow DP has games to sell... or is it will have (games to sell), and if so, then when and how will they have them?

All I saw in the letter Kim posted was that if DP pays off ARA then ARA will return all they're holding onto that belongs to DP. It seems like somehow we've leapt to a few conclusions here, that's my point.

$12,500 is too deep for me. I’d love to help someone whom is interested fund the game by purchasing a TNA, hobbit, or POTC

Wow this story has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

DP has 40 games to sell (that are hostage at ARA). Some of these games are paid in full others have deposits on them. All were purchased by early achievers.
DP owes ARA an unknown amount and needs to pay up so they will sell the 40 games that belong to EAs to pay their debt? So they are selling a game twice? Is the world insane? Who would go for this? Nobody should buy the 40 games unless they are the 40 individuals that purchased the game originally. If thats not enough to pay off the debt, too bad, thats DPs problem. Get a loan like every other business to make up the difference.

Besides weren't these games purchased by EAs before the second wave of games were pre-ordered? They only shipped like 50 games of round 1 right before they supposedly had their issue with ARA?

Only way that will happen is if the EAs bring another law suit!

By the time that happens, I guarantee those 40 games will long be sold....again!

Sorry, but thinking the whole world is gonna hold fast on that white knight stuff is fantasy. People who want the game will pay.

Here there are real games ready... and some unknown future of games will ever be made again. You are given the option to buy one... the only thing that will hold people back is ensuring their funds won't disappear.

If cointaker is willin to act as that escrow... these games will be sold by the weekend.

That is so wrong. We are not talking conceptually, it's literally like buying stolen goods. I am sure DP won't tell the prospective buyers "Oh by the way, this game was already sold but we are reselling it to pay off our debt, and eventually we'll get back to the first owner, thanks very much..."

I’m one of those schmucks with a $20K game. Don’t regret it. I also have a deposit with CT. I will gladly pay 12.5 for a hostage NIB pin. I don’t need two TBLs and gladly work a deal (at no profit) to pass it on to an EA.

I’m curious if CT is looking for ‘new’ money or will sell hostage games to those that already have a CT deposit.

While wrong on DP’s part; not an issue for the next buyer. Cruel world!

Hopefully CT offers option to pay that 12.5k to people with original deposits first! The sting is putting out another 12.5k on top (unless CT held the original deposit money).

Dutch Pinball are:

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Short version:

-Dutch Pinball announced Big Lebowski Pinball in 2013, made awesome prototypes that gave people the confidence to pre-order games.
-They blew all the pre-order money & didn't pay their contract manufacturer.
-Manufacturer stopped making/shipping games.
-DP lied about the situation, claiming there was a PCB issue and they were redesigning it.
-There was an opportunity to resolve the situation, but ARA (the manufacturer) wanted 51% ownership of DP to cover their asses, Barry/Jaap were stubborn and refused, even though they had no leverage.
-They tried to Ponzi their way out of it by announcing a Bride of Pinbot 2.0 Super LE for $12,500 and were yelled and laughed at...who would buy a new game at that price from them when Lebowskis were in limbo? The project went nowhere.
-They tried to partner with a new mfg in China & Ponzi their way out of it by having people buy new games to help pay for the old ones...this fell apart.
-It's been a shit show ever since....lots of people have been fully paid up for $8500 games since 2103/14, and have been refused refunds.

I was by no means an EA. I just sent them an email when Kaneda made his podcast that they were going into production. I never got a response on that email and was surprised with this email today.

I think they are just looking to move them as fast as possible

If you currently have a deposit with CoinTaker, you will get one of these games at the new price. We still hold your funds, as they were not sent to DP.
Please call me tomorrow at 570-847-9595.

Production as far as I am aware of for new games will not be moved to China, I will be talking to Barry more tomorrow on how to move forward and what pricing will be on new games
that will be produced, timeframe of when they might go back into production and what boards will be used as well as other parts.

Sincerely,
Melissa

What about people who are fully paid at $8500 with DP?

You will have to take that up with DP.
I will be talking to him more hopefully tomorrow and see what he says.