(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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  • 611 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by dts
  • Topic is favorited by 187 Pinsiders

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There are 11080 posts in this topic. You are on page 178 of 222.
#8851 4 months ago
Quoted from Billy16:

Hmmm...I suppose the OP would get his game plus your 1K, which would lead to an additional post in this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-are-there-so-many-sleezy-people-in-this-hobby

Don’t have access to that thread.

#8852 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

So, let me make sure I am understanding this properly...
- Original purchaser paid full price, got nothing
- You're offering original purchaser $1000 for his/her slot
- If the games ever DO materialize, you get a $1000 Big Lebowski
- OP gets $1000 and cuts his losses
If that is what is going down, I might be persuaded to buy a slot myself. I am curious to know the details on how the slot changes hands though. What happens if the games ship and the OP decides to keep the slot after all, for example?

Nope, or I don’t think so. Some pre orders only required a 1000$ downpayment and that’s one of them.

#8853 4 months ago

I would imagine the games would sell for 12k ? Maybe 15k NIB and there’s 60 left or so. They would most likely take highest price and refund deposits ? Or no deposits at all

#8855 4 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Don’t have access to that thread.

Me neither, what gives?

#8856 4 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Don’t have access to that thread.

Quoted from Toucanf16:

Me neither, what gives?

You have to go to your forum settings and turn on the basement setting.

#8857 4 months ago

Where and when is the drop? I got a briefcase stuffed with tighty whities and plan to catch one of the kidnappers and force him to lead to the hostage games.
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#8858 4 months ago

With all due respect to the EAs, I am shocked this fiasco hasn't received more attention from the media, especially considering the cost per game and license involved.

#8859 4 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

With all due respect to the EAs, I am shocked this fiasco hasn't received more attention from the media, especially considering the cost per game and license involved.

If it’s not something that divides us based on labels, the media doesn’t care. Plus, apparently there is no money.....

#8860 4 months ago

Can Chicago Gaming pick up this license and make it? Serious question. Seems like it would sell well. I'd buy 2.

#8861 4 months ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Plus, apparently there is no money.....

That was obvious a long time ago.

I am surprised Buzzfeed or some known tech blog hasn't picked up the scoop. It should be a damn Netflix documentary.

#8862 4 months ago
Quoted from Cobray:

Can Chicago Gaming pick up this license and make it? Serious question. Seems like it would sell well. I'd buy 2.

They would also inherit millions in Lost EA dept before building the first game. Sadly I doubt that they would be interested in that business plan.

#8863 4 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

They would also inherit millions in Lost EA dept before building the first game. Sadly I doubt that they would be interested in that business plan.

I dunno...if the assets get fire-saled as part of liquidation, one of those assets would be the IP in the game design and software.

Seems to me someone could buy those assets without acquiring the whole company, it's debt, etc.

#8864 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I dunno...if the assets get fire-saled as part of liquidation, one of those assets would be the IP in the game design and software.
Seems to me someone could buy those assets without acquiring the whole company, it's debt, etc.

Yes, it is very common to only acquire certain 'assets' of a company. This could be inventory, IP/patents, customer lists, maintenance agreements, etc. The complicating factors would be any existing legal actions and potential bankruptcy. I can't speak for the Netherlands; however, here, resolution of those actions may encompass disposition of assets in a prescribed manner.

#8865 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

So, let me make sure I am understanding this properly...
- Original purchaser paid full price, got nothing
- You're offering original purchaser $1000 for his/her slot
- If the games ever DO materialize, you get a $1000 Big Lebowski
- OP gets $1000 and cuts his losses
If that is what is going down, I might be persuaded to buy a slot myself. I am curious to know the details on how the slot changes hands though. What happens if the games ship and the OP decides to keep the slot after all, for example?

Many people just had a deposit of 1k with cointaker

#8866 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Nope, or I don’t think so. Some pre orders only required a 1000$ downpayment and that’s one of them.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Many people just had a deposit of 1k with cointaker

Aren’t those $1k cointaker deposits fully refundable to this day? Why sell a spot at face value when you could just refund it for the same amount with less hassle? Only way the transaction makes sense is if people are selling fully paid (and nonrefundable due to insolvency) EA spots at a deep discount.

#8867 4 months ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

Yes, it is very common to only acquire certain 'assets' of a company. This could be inventory, IP/patents, customer lists, maintenance agreements, etc. The complicating factors would be any existing legal actions and potential bankruptcy. I can't speak for the Netherlands; however, here, resolution of those actions may encompass disposition of assets in a prescribed manner.

It would also be possible for a company to buy DP by simply assuming their liabilities (ie debt) as the purchase price. Happens all the time. Until the ARA lawsuit is settled though, I doubt anyone will do that. The debt to the EA’s is a known sum. Damages brought by the lawsuit are an unknown. It is also unknown what has be signed under contact with The new contract manufacturer.

Lotta ins, lotta outs......

#8868 4 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Aren’t those $1k cointaker deposits fully refundable to this day? Why sell a spot at face value when you could just refund it for the same amount with less hassle? Only way the transaction makes sense is if people are selling fully paid (and nonrefundable due to insolvency) EA spots at a deep discount.

I think they're buying fully paid for spots at $1K. That's a value gamble in my book.

#8869 4 months ago

The 1k$ deposits with nitro and cointaker ARE fully refundable.

These transactions now showing up are for paid in full spots. A year ago EAs were floating their spots for sale for $4k - $5k. Now that the whole project is even more dead than ever, the spots are trading hands for $1k

#8870 4 months ago

I think Donny will come back from the dead before we see more Lawbowski pins being built.

#8871 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I dunno...if the assets get fire-saled as part of liquidation, one of those assets would be the IP in the game design and software.
Seems to me someone could buy those assets without acquiring the whole company, it's debt, etc.

Not saying thats not feasible I would just personally Hate to be the company that buys those rights knowing there are So many EA buyers that got robbed on this theme. Seems like the bad press alone would sink their efforts. Just look at the bad blood for Deeproot hiring you know who and they even agreed to make those buyer whole! While I would Love to get this title I doubt anyone would take the baggage these guys created. Sad.

#8872 4 months ago

It really is terrible because it looks to me they made a very good game.

#8873 4 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Aren’t those $1k cointaker deposits fully refundable to this day? Why sell a spot at face value when you could just refund it for the same amount with less hassle? Only way the transaction makes sense is if people are selling fully paid (and nonrefundable due to insolvency) EA spots at a deep discount.

they are refundable.. but this would be a way to get inline... for a line that is no longer open. Hence why it's kinda low risk... as it's just cointaker

#8874 4 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

It really is terrible because it looks to me they made a very good game.

I, like other EA's, recognized and invested in the game's potential from the start. Unfortunately for me, just a F'n titch too late at #59.

#8875 4 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

they are refundable.. but this would be a way to get inline... for a line that is no longer open. Hence why it's kinda low risk... as it's just cointaker

Rereading the original post, it’s clear what he was talking about, I guess a number of us (including me) didn’t reread it so we got half a dozen posts about Cointaker downpayments.

Quoted from Lamberger:

I'm still willing to pay $1000 U.S for a spot that someone payed in full for, under unit #80 of course.. 40 out, 40 waiting I think... A billion to one chance, but hey..I don't mind giving $1000 back to someone that lost $8500. plus tax. That sucks the big one.

#8876 4 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

I, like other EA's, recognized and invested in the game's potential from the start. Unfortunately for me, just an F'n titch too late at #59.

I still have faith Tuna. I truly believe you and the "The Forgotten Forty" will eventually get your game.

#8877 4 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

I still have faith Tuna. I truly believe you and the "The Forgotten Forty" will eventually get your game.

Thanks man - I appreciate your positive outlook!

#8878 4 months ago

I was fortunate enough to purchase my TBL from another pinsider (who got it from an EA$. But I’m still holding onto my CT deposit.

#8879 4 months ago
Quoted from Lamberger:

I'm still willing to pay $1000 U.S for a spot that someone payed in full for, under unit #80 of course.. 40 out, 40 waiting I think... A billion to one chance, but hey..I don't mind giving $1000 back to someone that lost $8500. plus tax. That sucks the big one.

It's likely throwing money away, but I've been known gamble now and then so what the hell -- I'll do the same as Lamberger if anyone else wants to sell their spot.

#8880 4 months ago

Brushing up on details — So right now the possible futures of the hostages are:

Lawsuit goes in favor of jap&co and games are released and delivered to EA’s (I’m assuming shipping would have to be arranged individually or something? Or were these headed to cointaker?)

OR

Ara wins and can do whatever they want? Auction them, release to buyers with additional money collected, burn them..?

Is that the just of where it’s at right now? Lawsuit is still going on, yeah? Or no? Or no one knows?

Trying to understand the stakes of that $1000 gamble a bit better, sounds interesting. It’s a killer game, esp if you love the movie.

#8881 4 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Brushing up on details — So right now the possible futures of the hostages are:
Lawsuit goes in favor of jap&co and games are released and delivered to EA’s (I’m assuming shipping would have to be arranged individually or something? Or were these headed to cointaker?)
OR
Ara wins and can do whatever they want? Auction them, release to buyers with additional money collected, burn them..?
Is that the just of where it’s at right now? Lawsuit is still going on, yeah? Or no? Or no one knows?
Trying to understand the stakes of that $1000 gamble a bit better, sounds interesting. It’s a killer game, esp if you love the movie.

It depends on the number written on the gambling ticket you get. Word is 40 units are ready to ship, the rest is very virtual so is the money B&K would have to produce more.

#8882 4 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Brushing up on details — So right now the possible futures of the hostages are:
Lawsuit goes in favor of jap&co and games are released and delivered to EA’s (I’m assuming shipping would have to be arranged individually or something? Or were these headed to cointaker?)
OR
Ara wins and can do whatever they want? Auction them, release to buyers with additional money collected, burn them..?
Is that the just of where it’s at right now? Lawsuit is still going on, yeah? Or no? Or no one knows?
Trying to understand the stakes of that $1000 gamble a bit better, sounds interesting. It’s a killer game, esp if you love the movie.

Wrong.

Even if DP "wins" the lawsuit, they have not paid ARA ANYTHING...or at least nothing near what they owe. They have squandered all the money. So this lawsuit about the cost escalation from initial contract with ARA to the disputed cost per unit is sort of irrelevant when DP has no money to even pay the originally agreed upon price. They wasted whatever they had left exploring some hair-brained idea of a Chinese company building the games.

If ARA wins, they will absolutely NOT release them to the EA's. They will either be sold off or destroyed (if licensing requires it). ARA owes the EA's nothing. ARA has their own money tied up in those assets and thus ARA (unless obligated to destroy them) can sell them off to new buyers.

Every solution to this mess that gets buyers their games requires DP to cough up a boat load of money...of which we know DP has none.

It's interesting in some ways that DP has not found an investor or something. They now have proof (via pinside and elsewhere) that the machines they designed CAN sell for significantly more than the $8500 original price. Why not convince an angel investor to pay off their debts to ARA to free up this insane log-jam and them start over manufacturing them in China or the US and selling them for $12,500. They would still sell like hot-cakes and at a massive premium over build cost at that point which would hopefully help make a business case to an investor.

The lawsuit was supposed to have an update weeks ago but we have not heard a thing.

Speaking of which, is there not public record in their Country? How is this all still under lock and key? Its not like it was some confidential arbitration hearing...

#8883 4 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

... Speaking of which, is there not public record in their Country? How is this all still under lock and key? Its not like it was some confidential arbitration hearing...

Per Jonathan Joosten (unigroove) in the EA private thread, the verdict does not appear to be accessible by the public. In the meantime, no word whatsoever from Dutch Pinball for 7 months now other than a supposed promise by Barry (via a private email) in May to send one "soon".

#8884 4 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Per Jonathan Joosten (unigroove) in the EA private thread, the verdict does not appear to be accessible by the public. In the meantime, no word whatsoever from Dutch Pinball for 7 months now other than a supposed promise by Barry (via a private email) in May to send one "soon".

Do you know if a verdict has been issued even if the content is not public ?

I wonder if they are trying to get money to pay ara and get their games thus the delay in emailing.

#8885 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Do you know if a verdict has been issued even if the content is not public ?
I wonder if they are trying to get money to pay ara and get their games thus the delay in emailing.

I’ll bet the reason we haven’t heard from DP is that they wanted to pay off their debts to ARA and other vendors first and then make the big announcement. I’ll bet DP plans to ship the 40 hostage games to EA’s free of charge too, but is awaiting ARA to build another 100 games for them first, so that DP can pay ARA for them and then they can finally ship games to every EA.

if you watch tv movies and can remember any with plots involving CONmen - you’ll recognize the marks are looking for a payout and plan to reconvene with the CONman. Meanwhile the CONman has cleaned out the mark and has already left town. In this case DP has been insolvent since 2017, with no way to repay their debts and no plans to deliver games to EA’s. How they kept their doors open while running on fumes is the real miracle. DP may have started with hope and a bright future, but since 2017 when the company was upside down, it became a CON.

#8886 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Do you know if a verdict has been issued even if the content is not public ?
I wonder if they are trying to get money to pay ara and get their games thus the delay in emailing.

I, nor any other "Early Achiever" that I'm aware of via Pinside, knows anything at this point other than the case supposedly went back to the judge months ago to decide upon and Jaap is supposedly recuperating from cancer and deferring to Barry for info.

DP's longstanding silence at this point is not only disconcerting (no news is NOT good news), it's beyond a total BULLSHIT way to treat your investors.

#8887 4 months ago

Thanks for clarifying guys. There’s gotta be another deep root investor out there to save this mess!! Right now sure doesn’t sound like a good gamble to go in for a grand on a hostage game. Sure hope they don’t get destroyed in the end, that would be a shame.

#8888 4 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

Do you know if a verdict has been issued even if the content is not public ?
I wonder if they are trying to get money to pay ara and get their games thus the delay in emailing.

Insert "So your saying there is a chance" meme.

#8889 4 months ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

Thanks for clarifying guys. There’s gotta be another deep root investor out there to save this mess!! Right now sure doesn’t sound like a good gamble to go in for a grand on a hostage game. Sure hope they don’t get destroyed in the end, that would be a shame.

Unless the license is a problem.. And that would be a total shame..

#8890 4 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

It's likely throwing money away, but I've been known gamble now and then so what the hell -- I'll do the same as Lamberger if anyone else wants to sell their spot.

My inbox has not been flooded with EAs looking to take me up on this, so market rate to buy a paid spot at no. 40-80 would appear to be > $1k despite the one recent transaction.

#8891 4 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

My inbox has not been flooded with EAs looking to take me up on this, so market rate to buy a paid spot at no. 40-80 would appear to be > $1k despite the one recent transaction.

Only just discovered this whole pinball fiasco about TBL.. Looks like a great game. What a shame it has gone bust!? I would entertain a gamble on a prepaid machine but seriously the people who have lost money should be the ones at the front of the line for a percentage refund after the courts are done. They shouldnt lose out on the machine if in the end it does finally ship.

#8892 4 months ago

Here I sit broken hearted, fully paid for a TBL and only ____.

#8893 4 months ago

The Cohen brothers could write a sequel to TBL using Barry and Jaap and this whole debacle. Maybe we EA’s can get royalties from it.

#8894 4 months ago

Why not different twist on this “EA buyout program” instead of $1000+ for a spot, how about $500 cash now buys first right of refusal on the spot at the original $8500 full price cost. If the games actually come out, the buyer can decide to pay the original EA the additional $8000 and get the game or pass and lose the $500 and the EA gets their game. By taking the non-refundable $500 the EA gives up the right to take the game but would get their full investment back. Essentially just selling the game for face value...

#8895 4 months ago

We didn't even get a ringer full of used underwear.

#8896 4 months ago

Any bets if we hear anything before the August holidays?

#8897 4 months ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Why not different twist on this “EA buyout program” instead of $1000+ for a spot, how about $500 cash now buys first right of refusal on the spot at the original $8500 full price cost. If the games actually come out, the buyer can decide to pay the original EA the additional $8000 and get the game or pass and lose the $500 and the EA gets their game. By taking the non-refundable $500 the EA gives up the right to take the game but would get their full investment back. Essentially just selling the game for face value...

If you are actually offering this, it's definitely a much better deal for the EAs, and I wouldn't be surprised if you got a taker.

#8898 4 months ago
Quoted from JimB:

Any bets if we hear anything before the August holidays?

At this point, I wouldn't bet a dime that we ever hear anything short of someone confronting Barry and/or Jaap in person or getting a subpoena (or Dutch equivalent) issued for a court appearance. DP appears to be on the lam.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tbl-ea-only-private-topic/page/10#post-5014058

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/big-lebowski-plastics-scam-has-dp-really-sunk-this-low#post-5047976

Then again, perhaps this post will so infuriate them that they will finally emerge from the shadows and break their longstanding silence.

... nahhhhhhhhh!

#8900 4 months ago
Quoted from highdef:

Do you mind summarizing for those outside this private thread?

My apologies. In the interest of obtaining some justice from DP and for all that is right in the hobby, certainly not:

@unigroove's post 22 days ago: "Since my name came up on the previous page: if there is anything to report, I will. The past month I reached out to Barry twice, but he didn't answer my calls or called back (yet). I haven't reached out to ARA yet. I have no info on the outcome of the courtcase either. And the fact that DP are fellow Dutch citicens doesn't make me biased. I'm paid in full and just hope there is some solution that will lead to everybody getting their game."

Nothing has changed regarding DP's lack of response to date as far as I'm aware.

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