(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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24 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 8785 posts in this topic. You are on page 175 of 176.
#8701 29 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Where the hell did I ever say that!

You even quoted yourself saying it... in that same post.
"Those machines are frozen assets until the courts say otherwise." - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/174#post-4892140

Quoted from Mr68:

You know, the pinball machines that you believe for some ridiculous reasons are ARA assets that they could just simply sell

They are ARA property. Incomplete work done by ARA for a customer. That the customer has not paid for.

If ARA runs a bunch of PCBs for a customer order and that customer bails - The customer doesn't own the PCBs. They are inventory that the manufacturer built. This project has the extra complexities of who owns the IP, and the fact there is licensed material involved complicating the transactions... but doesn't change how simple law works. Having the IP doesn't make the goods yours.

What are you gonna say now? No more MaufacturingARGUMENTS because they don't line up with your passion ones?

Let's be truthful Kim - Do you know the terms that the manufacturing done by ARA was done under? No
Do you know who really owns the intellectual property of all the parts of this project? No
Do we know ARA was in the position of authority to hold all the parts and works in progress? YES
And why would that be? Because ARA likely structured it all so THEY own all the work they did.. especially since they were fronting it.

Do you have any citable source that says there is a court order that these assets are to be frozen until ARA's own lawsuit is resolved? I'll wait.

#8702 29 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You even quoted yourself saying it... in that same post.
"Those machines are frozen assets until the courts say otherwise." - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/174#post-4892140

They are ARA property. Incomplete work done by ARA for a customer. That the customer has not paid for.
If ARA runs a bunch of PCBs for a customer order and that customer bails - The customer doesn't own the PCBs. They are inventory that the manufacturer built. This project has the extra complexities of who owns the IP, and the fact there is licensed material involved complicating the transactions... but doesn't change how simple law works. Having the IP doesn't make the goods yours.
What are you gonna say now? No more MaufacturingARGUMENTS because they don't line up with your passion ones?
Let's be truthful Kim - Do you know the terms that the manufacturing done by ARA was done under? No
Do you know who really owns the intellectual property of all the parts of this project? No
Do we know ARA was in the position of authority to hold all the parts and works in progress? YES
And why would that be? Because ARA likely structured it all so THEY own all the work they did.. especially since they were fronting it.
Do you have any citable source that says there is a court order that these assets are to be frozen until ARA's own lawsuit is resolved? I'll wait.

Dude, you are wrong. Those games are frozen by the courts. That is why no one can sell them.

Don't make this so complicated.

#8703 29 days ago

Why wouldn’t ARA sell them for big money to recoup some money- who is holding them back from selling then?

#8704 29 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Plain and simple, IF DP could sell the hostage games they would. If ARA could sell the hostage games, they would.

Not if your ambitions are bigger than the games themselves. Remember, ARA went into this with the idea of making many many many more units... and a ton of R&D and investment. This isn't just about 40ish pieces of finished goods. Keeping the goods is part of the leverage against DP and in future court issues... that's probably more why the goods have stayed in place. Plus there is the problem around the multiple IP holders... but remember DP doesn't own the TBL IP... so they aren't the only avenue to address the licensing challenges. We don't know what kind of agreements DP entered with ARA to secure the original deal.

Point being... there can be many reasons why the games have stayed - don't assume one answer is the only possible answer.

#8705 29 days ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

He is right about one thing though, pinside is much better without Hylton.

He says that like he is still an active member on here. And takes cheap shots at guys like Neil??? The dude is a serious asshole! No class what so ever.

#8706 29 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Dude, you are wrong. Those games are frozen by the courts.

Got a cite for that from the court proceedings or filings?

Don't forget... The courts only got involved when ARA brought them in... way later.

#8707 29 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Got a cite for that from the court proceedings or filings?
Don't forget... The courts only got involved when ARA brought them in... way later.

The court rulings are somewhere here in pinside (I read them at some point), but I don't care enough to search for them because it's stupid.

But have at it. Search is your friend.

In the end, those 40 pins will be sold, regardless of who gets the profits. So it is truly a mute point as far as the pin community is concerned.

#8708 29 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

The court rulings are somewhere here in pinside (I read them at some point), but I don't care enough to search for them because it's stupid.

So the answer is no...

And we're back to my original point. It's an assumption not a known.

#8709 29 days ago

Ok, dumb ideas dept...

Someone needs to (pay) and get Jeff Bridges to sign all 40 of them, double their worth, Auction them off, split the returns with ARA and a trust made up of EA’s and investors and DP, with the judge deciding who gets how much of what. Then disolve the whole mess, sending all IP rights back to their original owners. Then let the market drive any sales of new machines, if the licensing can be re-procured.

Yeah, dumb idea, right?

#8710 29 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

But this is what you do on Pinside, Flynnibus. You twist and spew mumbo jumbo, you obfuscate, you dodge and filibuster all of us into submission.

I forgot to mention how Flynnibus always has to have the last word.

#8711 29 days ago

Any chance they take the money and get the game back into production?

#8712 29 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

Plain and simple, IF DP could sell the hostage games they would. If ARA could sell the hostage games, they would.
The Courts are responsible for the hostage games, first telling both parties to "try to work it out" and come back to the court, and the court agree or not with the deal. If no compromise can be made, the court will dictate who gets the games (or a percentage will go to both parties).
Either way, the games will eventually be sold. It is just a matter of who gets the $$

This is the only speculation post you need to read. I also agree with Mr68 for now.

#8713 29 days ago

It amazes me the connotations of freaking madness folks come out with to justify the mad hope that this game will see the light of day again and that it will work for longer than 10 plays!

#8714 29 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Not if your ambitions are bigger than the games themselves. Remember, ARA went into this with the idea of making many many many more units... and a ton of R&D and investment.

ARA "couldn't" care less if they (never) made another TBL.

12
#8715 29 days ago

Realize some EA's lost a ton of $$ on this pin (and a few made $$$) and this whole thing seems like a Sh$t Sh0w! I would still love to own this pin one day.

I own an arcade with 20 plus pins. I get the near daily, "Has anyone ever told you, you look like Jeff Bridges, The Dude, The Big Lebowski, . . . "

I had hoped these rumors were real and I could finally complete my dream to own one . . .

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#8716 29 days ago

Wow. This thread hasn't seen this much action since circa 2016. I think that was around the time we learned Barry's goldfish had fallen ill with fin rot, which prevented start of production.
Hold up. Now that I think of it, that was actually when Jaap stared at the solar eclipse without protective eyewear, which in turn blurred his vision and caused production to be delayed once again.
I can't keep the timeline straight!

-1
#8717 29 days ago

PS - Someone deserves a TWERPY award for "Best Rumor."

#8718 29 days ago

I ain't going to lie, this rumor got me excited. I love the theme and had the privilege of taking part of an unboxing of a new one a few years ago. Would still LOVE to have this title at the non-collector price.

Oh well.

#8719 28 days ago

This idea that people keep advocating about ARA wanting to restart production, or that they will do if they win and DP disappear is so utterly ridiculous.

It gets debunked over and over and over and still keeps coming up.

Even allowing for some tiny possibility, it seems like just about the most unlikely outcome of any that you could dream of.

#8720 28 days ago
Quoted from dannylite:

ARA "couldn't" care less if they (never) made another TBL.

Yup Captain Hindsight - that doesn't mean they don't want to recover $$ for their efforts.

Customers only think in terms of the games built... the business knows there is more than that at stake.

#8721 28 days ago
Quoted from Beechwood:

The court rulings are somewhere here in pinside (I read them at some point), but I don't care enough to search for them because it's stupid.

It's because they aren't here...

No one has posted or even relayed the actual details of the ARA lawsuit against DP (if someone has, please share and prove me wrong... I want to know). What their claims are or what even what their desired resolutions are. If you have something, please share.

#8722 28 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I forgot to mention how Flynnibus always has to have the last word.

says the guy who quotes himself to add a new post in to just add a jab in... you're hysterical.

#8723 28 days ago

I had no opinion on Kaneda until now, as I didn't get into the drama surrounding his time here. But following that false rumor he spreaded, the hope it must have raised with the people waiting for their games, and how I day dreamt of having one in my game room, he is now officially on my shit list.

#8724 28 days ago

Both Alien and The Big Lebowski would have been smash hits. A damn shame.

#8725 28 days ago

over 100 unread posts on this thread and looks like I didn't miss anything....

#8726 28 days ago
Quoted from RTR:

over 100 unread posts on this thread and looks like I didn't miss anything....

I think the crow is safe...

13
#8727 28 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I think the crow is safe...

I am about to change my avatar to a dead parrot.

#8728 26 days ago

the story in the TBL movie looks simple compared to the real life TBL Pinball machine actual story , who would have thought this ?

#8729 26 days ago
Quoted from MPRAMONE:

the story in the TBL movie looks simple compared to the real life TBL Pinball machine actual story , who would have thought this ?

Well since they already made a sequel, the pinball saga could complete the trilogy. It would definitely get more than 2.1 stars.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1879064/

#8730 26 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

I must have wandered into the middle of the wrong thread.

You’re like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie …

#8731 23 days ago

Just because we’re bereaved doesnt make us saps!

I think we need a modesty priced receptacle in which to transmit the remains of this erstwhile amazing game. All we can do at this point is scatter the ashes.

And to those who keep stirring the pot without hard evidence, I have one thing to say: Shut up!! You’re out of your element! Koo koo ka choo.

RIP DP TBL.

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#8732 22 days ago

I'd be willing to bet that ARA/NiVoGe Group's business (revenue) has significantly slowed down since the dispute with DP blew up.
The Eurozone is seeing the same manufacturing slowdowns and contractions occurring elsewhere in the world. Italy is already in a recession and Germany and France are on the brink. I don't know all the ins & outs of their business, but I know this isn't a good environment to be in manufacturing.

Maybe ARA should take what they can get -- even if it's pinball manufacturing.

#8733 22 days ago
Quoted from dannylite:

Well since they already made a sequel, the pinball saga could complete the trilogy. It would definitely get more than 2.1 stars.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1879064/

"I'm sick of abiding man !!" well done stuff there , fun to watch too , thanks for sharing it.

1 week later
#8734 11 days ago

When is the deadline for DP and ARA to make an agreement before the court imposes one?

#8735 11 days ago
Quoted from Rick432:

When is the deadline for DP and ARA to make an agreement before the court imposes one?

I don’t think anyone released a timeframe. Just that the judge said they need to work it out between them.

#8736 11 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

I don’t think anyone released a timeframe. Just that the judge said they need to work it out between them.

Sounds like a real tight legal system over there.

#8737 9 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

Sounds like a real tight legal system over there.

Well you know ... there’s a lot of ins and outs and what have you’s to consider.

#8738 8 days ago

For all we know this is part of the long con. I haven't seen the lawsuit or anything official about the judge's order.

Has anyone else?

#8739 8 days ago

Ok, they have 3 more days to sort things out, or my money will go to a WWCF

#8740 8 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Well you know ... there’s a lot of ins and outs and what have you’s to consider.

Yeah, well, right man, there are many facets to this, uh, you know, many interested parties.

#8741 8 days ago

Good question...can anyone actually confirm this went to court? I mean we are dealing with proven liars...nothing is out of the realm of possibility

#8742 8 days ago

There was a lot of activity when people here were seriously considering suing. Now that everyone has backed off...………..

#8743 8 days ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

There was a lot of activity when people here were seriously considering suing. Now that everyone has backed off...………..

The legal action discussed here is between DP and ARA, so wether EA sue or not doesn’t matter much.

#8744 8 days ago
Quoted from adol75:

The legal action discussed here is between DP and ARA, so wether EA sue or not doesn’t matter much.

The large number of early investors with a sizable claim added to the proceedings would matter a lot.
Go back and read this entire thread, the case is there.

#8745 8 days ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

The large number of early investors with a sizable claim added to the proceedings would matter a lot.
Go back and read this entire thread, the case is there.

If there is no money to be had, why bother until this plays out? In the end, the best any EA can hope for is a machine, or those who committed the con to be prosecuted by law for fraud. Suing is just throwing good money at bad right now.

#8746 8 days ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

The large number of early investors with a sizable claim added to the proceedings would matter a lot. Go back and read this entire thread, the case is there.

How would money owed by DP to the Early Achievers impact a lawsuit between DP and ARA? Just so it's clear, this isn't a bankruptcy case yet, it's a contract dispute between the manufacturer (ARA) and the client (DP).

#8747 8 days ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

The large number of early investors with a sizable claim added to the proceedings would matter a lot.
Go back and read this entire thread, the case is there.

The ARA - DP lawsuit is in The Netherlands, it's a parallel line.

#8748 8 days ago

When can I bid on one of those 40 games

#8749 8 days ago
Quoted from whitey:

When can I bid on one of those 40 games

I'm accepting bids on mine at anytime. The reserve is $8,500.

#8750 7 days ago
Quoted from phil-lee:

Original Artwork, Design drawings,Engineering blueprints and proprietary tooling, along with Licensing (expired but renewable, still viable for machines already produced) are assets DP owns.
ARA would like 51 percent of DP in order to own these assets in order to sell completed machines whole and recoup their investment. Without these rights they will not be able to sell finished product, only non proprietary parts,tooling designed by them, and memorabilia without licensed images. This means all backglasses, plastics, stencils,decals,literature featuring Universal -approved artwork must be destroyed if DP prevails and cannot pay the outstanding fees determined by the Court to release them back to DP or assemble them to viable product.
As the funding Agents for development, start-up and assembly of remaining machines/parts residing at ARA Early Achievers have a strong claim, perhaps a stronger claim,than DP to these assets should insolvency prevent release, as well if the Court rules in ARA favor, preventing them from having free rein to sell the remaining machines/parts on the free Market until all EA's obligations are fulfilled.
In a nutshell a legal petition of Group Claimants added to any DP/AR lawsuit could net EA's something tangible.
Without it they have nothing but hope DP will return to a position of solvency and address their claims.

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