It's hard to get community support when there is no trust for how the money will be used or the likelihood of success.

More likely to get community support if Ara agreed to release the games for the money owed them and the money could come from an escrow account supplied by the community. I would throw some money towards the cause if I thought it had a good chance to succed.

I'm not sure why people just can't grasp that this is over?? Hopefully those ARA games get to the EAs, but beyond that, game over unfortunately.

All this story is nice but What about EA that are waiting for their games? They are still taken in hostage and are all bankers.
If the money was used to pay ARA ( I don’t know if ARA is contractually clean or not), there will have more donations to finish the EA story properly...and THEN find a solution to go into production.

Removed new NSL, EA’s check your mail.

anyone want to post the letter from the guys that stopped paying themselves from your money in jan 2018!

EA’s check your emails..

The members only forum Robin is creatingis almost complete. I would ask that EAs post in the forum when I set it up, as if the NSNL is posted here then it will only get trolled, and more speculation/accusations of lying etc..

I totally agree. Just got my NSNL and if it goes public we will only hear more of the conjecture!

Give it couple of days. I have some more stuff to share but not on this thread

Good idea.

Guess it will leak out eventually but let’s not make it the trolls with nothing at stake to easy.

If you think removing transparency makes things better... oh boy are you guys digging deeper.

I'm still on DP's mailing list but I will keep it confidential for you guys. Agreed it will probably still get out but it won't be from me.

That said, I think it's the best newsletter to date for the Early Achievers and I am very encouraged about DP's future after being pessimistic in the recent past. Fuk the trolls, this is excellent and realistic stuff.

Great news letter. I'll join you dudes on the new forum. Was tired of the trolls, no vested interest just bad speculation. Nobody knows shit so if you haven't bought one how about you shut your mouth. I bet they work it out with ARA, it's in the interest of all. I figured it would shake out this way eventually. I still think we get 'em...eventually.

#52 here btw...

Things are coming together in the EAs that want to be in the thread.

Would love to join.

I do not understand why anyone is not willing to share the info. So here it is.

nsnl (resized).JPG

It upto you.. you must really value the input and opinions of the others on this thread.

The broken silence and letter looks like a fear seeing groups uniting to end this long playing shell game. Basically back off and trust us again and please don't take legal action or contact anyone. Anyone surprised that they decided to start communicating when EA's decided to take strategy conversation off line.....

Seeing your name reminds me.
I will take a set of the bowling ball pinball mod you have on your site

Shell game...LOL....like this has all been some big ploy to scam us and run off to a tropical island. Enough with the nonsense... It's just a bad situation. They're trying...

Thanks! I have never hidden the fact that TBL is without Question my dream theme and holly grail no doubt which is why we even made a mod for it. It is disheartening to see this title possibly forever lost to poor business decisions. This title (to me) is the best cult classic to ever come out. (or almost come out)

Agreed. If their goal was some elaborate con, there has to be a much easier way. I think the expense and difficulty of going from prototype to production was much greater than they expected (stating the obvious, i know).

Now they're stuck in the weeds. Hope they can find a way out but chances seem slim. Kind of ironic that it's all about the money.

I’m serious! I will take a set!

Anytime several sets and colors in stock. Visit www.TheModCouplePinball.com and I can have them out next day.

Development with ARA - boards, sub assemblies and setting up the production line probably cost most of the initial capital.
Then it goes wrong, then they go do it again with Xytech .. it’s no wonder they are short of cash now.

Says out of stock?

I just checked and the website says 9 sets in stock. Just PM me what colors you prefer!

I thank him for sharing.

I've no investment in the outcome good or bad. I'm not an EA or LA, but am a Lebowski fan and a pinball fan. So even though I've stayed silent out of respect to those with more at stake and more direct knowledge and informed conjecture to provide, I still appreciate the postings.

It's been somewhat educational. I have learned a fair bit about the true tribulations of pinball development, how licensing works, how trade laws work, how the Netherlands gets months off, how China gets months off, how white lies and bad decisions can compound over time and pollute intent, how the most assured contracts can still detonate... and perhaps most importantly, learned how NOT to run a business.

I've learned which pinsiders are truly respectable with measured, thoughtful, considered responses that I should pay attention to throughout the site... and which pinsiders are usually vapid trolls, pot-stirrers, and me-too's.

And this is a compelling story! Absent all the true facts and figures, some things can still go and be reasonably argued either way. Maybe DP are liars. Maybe ARA screwed them over. Maybe both groups are idiots. Maybe both made reasonably good faith efforts that got scuttled by the unforseen. Maybe the defective boards ruse was a cover to salvage reputation in the moment (sure seems naive and reckless in hindsight, but businesses are full of white lies and against the wall plays; If things had worked out we'd be none the wiser and it could have become their version of Spooky's "and we almost went under until that miraculous Texas show" moment). Or they could all be full of shit. I don't see this as some grand intentional scam... but I do agree the way this has played out has been horrible for those with money on the line.

Another thing I've learned - or rather, had confirmed beyond shadow of a doubt - is NOTHING makes folks more emotional than money lost or held in stasis. People will even hold loss of family in "que sera, sera" context but as soon as money is involved, all philosophic rationale goes out the window. Maybe the dutch have a different attitude? Cultural Difference is Hard.

I've no money on the line, but I've invested no small amount of time reading and following this saga, forming my own opinions, and wondering what the next blip will be. Time is yet to tell how this plays out. All I can do is sincerely hope everyone gets what they paid for and learned enough to make smarter decisions going forward, and thank the group for its candor in the meanwhile.

Paid! Can I have a set 1 blue & 1 Red.
Thanks

Done and done. Thanks for your order and interest! Will have them out tomorrow!

I think we already knew the bad news ... and that they'd (said that they) stopped paying themselves had already leaked.

The other news, regarding a potential out of court settlement. You could be optimistic and say that they have a good case - better than ARA prepared for - and that their lawyer did a good job of presenting both the defence and their counter suit. Perhaps they thought they'd be immediately pushed to bankruptcy, wouldn't be able to pay the lawyer, and made a miscalculation.

Assuming they want to settle, in good faith, are they really going to offer a deal that's sufficiently affordable for them to go back to them as a manufacturer? Presumably DP owe Xytech now, too. How would that get settled? Seems pretty unlikely. What seems more probable is that they could agree to drop the lawsuit and any claims of monies owed, if they can come to an agreement on the machines already made.

But there's absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that they want to settle, or that they even think DP have a reasonable case. The offer of settlement could be simply to protract things further, and have DP incur further legal costs, pushing them closer to bankruptcy.

The update does give a ray of hope, but I wouldn't say the content is really positive or negative. We don't know, and nor do Barry & Jaap yet.

There is ZERO chance ARA has a strong case if they want to discuss out of court again. MARK it ZERO! They are just flexing their muscles and the fact that they have deeper pockets. But they're not insane, at the end of the day they have a business to run and realize the consequences if the case ends in favor of DP. Why do you think it was crickets and then happened as China manufacturer came together?! This is just how hardball is played. If DP wanted everyone's money they could've taken a hell of a lot more. They've always been responsive to my direct emails. Obviously this sucks and they are climbing a mountain, but if DP can weather the storm I really think they'll work it out. There's a market here...that's what matters.

"And this is a compelling story!"

IF this works out, will be the most compelling pinball story ever. Also most ironic, as all the problems we have are basically what the movie is about.

Sorry had to read back a bit but You sir took the ultimate roller coaster on this one so a salute to you. As number #52 you were literally an Inch from the exit. I am NOT making fun just totally understand your frustration a bit clearer. Dam. Sucks for all but you sir took the ultimate slap. I wish for all this amazing theme gets somehow across the finish line.

...literally next in line. And they delivered one 6 blocks from me... I have talked to them many times (DP) and it is 100% their intention to deliver these machines. Funny...thanks for mentioning.

I'd put it at at least 55:45 that it's just a delaying tactic. Regardless of whether they have a strong case or not, I'm sure they'd much rather DP went bankrupt ASAP (rather than a long court case) and then they could do what ever they wanted with the assets they'd get.

Remember, they don't need an ironclad case. DP are on the verge of bankruptcy (by their own admission), and are an absolute minnow compared with ARA.

Wishing it was the way you want it to be won't make it so. We can hope ARA really do want to negotiate something that DP (and buyers) could accept ... but their legal representation saying that they want to discuss an out of court settlement gives absolutely no hint one way or the other.

Fact: A friend of mine JUST got a refund from them. I wonder why them and where that money came from, if they’re still saying “no refunds”. Hmm.

Why do you and others taunt EA buyers with this crap? If you want to Help them get their money back and Help by telling them how to do it JUST Do IT. Otherwise what do you gain by bragging about this secret refund process?? Just seems dicky.

That's a lot of reading into the idea of having a meeting..

Every monetary dispute goes through such things - the idea of 'lets talk' doesn't mean a settlement is on the cusp.. or that ARA is reeling.

Just let it play out. There is almost no hope of details from such negotiations except "we are working together" vs "we are not talking"... and neither really locks in an outcome.

It's pretty obvious how to do it. Also, I doubt they'd be able to sustain more than another couple doing it.

That would mean all the rest are certain to get nothing. That would mean that a court case would never decide who was at fault in ARA vs DP, and people wouldn't really ever know the truth. That would mean no potential settlement. That would very probably mean the last TBLs have already been built; which might also entail the 20-40 completed units at ARA being destroyed if Universal won't sign their release away.

Some people seem to think it'd be a desirable outcome if DP went bust, because they believe ARA would manufacture as many as there was demand for. Which is almost certainly not going to happen - they're a specialised CM who've already wasted an inordinate amount of time on this for no gain, even if they may possibly be to blame for that. EAs would still get nothing in this scenario, anyway.

Given that DP haven't taken anyone's money since, what, 2015 (??) and have continually refused additional orders ... it seems unlikely they're running a Ponzi, unlike other notable examples in pinball. So I don't really think their ceasing to exist benefits anyone except ARA.

People are perfectly entitled to ask for and get refunds ... but all options look (very) bad at the moment.

Perhaps read the whole post? I don't think that is likely the case at all. I was humouring a positive scenario.

I think it's significantly more likely they're just trying to draw things out as long as possible, to invite bankruptcy.

It costs ARA money to have completed machines and parts to build new pins sit in their warehouse. Maybe we've reached a point where enough time has passed to bring DP and ARA together to reach a deal to restart production.

Maybe...

ARA has 40 games and wants 1) to be paid first before proceeding and DP has no money. So DP would have to agree to sell those games to new buyers and then they would pay everything to ARA. Their case settled. Maybe that is where the talks lead. Prolog - But then ARA will quit answering the phone calls from DP and DP will be forced to admit no more games will be built. aka ARA's best play if they want to cash out. OR

2) ARA wants 51% of the company so maybe they'd relieve the debt for majority ownership stake. And then they'd release the games to DP who could ship them to EA's. Their case settled. Maybe that is where the talks lead. Prolog - ARA cranks it up and produces games but will need to go back to the sell 2 games and gift 1 LE to an EA. This plan would be a long slog and have 0 chance of success. But it is still a direction that could be chosen. aka DP's best short term option. OR

3) ARA is playing DP for chumps. DP is insolvent. DP knows it and ARA will remind DP they know it too. Therefore see outcome #2 but we see you are desperate and can smell the fear. You have gone too far and we are vindictive SOBs so now we want 90% of company. And tell the EA's, 1 pin shipped to EA for every two pins we sell. The policy stands. aka the nuclear option.

Irony

have you seen their report card for the last semester?

Another bunch of idiots with a start-up company that decided to pay themselves before the product was finished and shipped. You simply CANNOT start a new company/business without having your own personal funding to keep yourself afloat until said company becomes solvent. Recipe for disaster otherwise. Sorry, it looks like most of the EA's were paying for living expenses on top of thier machines.

Jesus Christ!!! These European holidays are absolutely absurd!!! No one can be bothered to work until August 29th due to “holiday”? It’s July 24th for the love of all things holy! How does anything get done over there?

The Dutch take typical a 3 week summer Holiday. This is spread over like a 2 month holiday period when schools are closed for the summer.

So this means it’s likely that of several people are envolved in something always one is on holiday over this 2 month period. For a lot of jobs this is fine as colleagues can easily take over. With attorneys I can imagine this is more difficult as it takes a lot of time to understand a case in depth. And could also be that the holiday of ARA and DP lawyer are not in sync.

One thing I believe for sure, DP wants this to be done quickly so Barry and Jaap are not causing this delay.

Dude, are you for real? I’m not taunting anyone. I don’t brag. There’s no secret. I told my story of the refund. I badgered then until they said “OK”. You know what my friend did? Badgered them until they said “OK”. We didn’t do anything special, didn’t expect it, were shocked when it happened, and are now relieved.

All I’ve done is wonder out loud why some get refunds while they send out emails that say “no refunds”.

Dealt with it for 22 years in the job I retired from last fall and dealing with it now in a new job I took on. Those wacky Germans! "We're on Holiday".

Plus, no voicemail on their office phones, gotta love that.