Seriously?? They are doing this for the EA with no personal gain.... Really? Are you related to them or as I suspect Really deep into that personal friendship. Nothing they have done to Date is for the EA buyers. Nothing!

this is like titanic, they are trying to repair this ship while its sinking.. it's no use.. its sad yes.. it really is.. but they had a good shot to do this the right way but missed it badly.. do what phil also did couple years back.. just abandon ship folks, they fucked it up severly, declare bankruptcy and move along.. or start fresh again! 500K for lawyers gtfo give it back to all the EA instead!! I was proud to have them achieving good things to the pinball community as a Dutch fella. but cmon guys!! making pinball is tough I get it.. stop making this mess even worse then it already is.

If this money helps DP to win the courtcase and jumpstart the production as mentioned in the goals tell me how this doesn’t help us EA???

500k for lawyers only??

Should I translate this part of the Gofundme in Dutch for you?

Now DP needs help to pay their lawyers and to start up the production with another manufacturer

I read it just as fine as if it were in Dutch Rensh, but to the topic.. they might be better off selling the company to an investment company or just get an loan from the bank and get it done.. asking for more money thru the community it's starting to become like an insult to me! i would be highly surprised if they met 500K funding but yeah why not ripping some more people off while your at it.. because there is no guarantee even getting 500K will be enough fixing everything hence delivering games

And yes ARA might be pricks asking for more dough, but I don't know the truth in all of this and that is the thing.. and their downfall is the lack of just being honest and being non transparent throughout their entire DP existence.. and even thou I'm not an EA (thank God) this failing endeavour is about to put an huge dent in our Dutch pinball community as a whole.. and that sucks. and yes Barry and jaap are good guys in general.. and I was very proud of DP , but this is business ok.. and lots f money are at stake for the EA investor in their lebowski games.. and im affraid that its not going to end well

Rensh - DP has lived off of EA money for the last 4 years. It doesn't matter to me if they lived large or lived modestly. EA's have been buying their stroopwafel and bitterballen while they make horrible financial decisions with our money.

So miss me with the 'no personal gain' story please.

Fact universal does not approve this gofundme and the license is cancelled

Don't believe me call them yourself.

Same as predator, don't waste any money helping them, it won't get your game regardless if how much is raised.

But Rensh, even assuming this is an honest endeavour in good faith, by both the organisers and by what DP intend to do with the money, it's a total mess.

There's no information, no transparency, not even the vaguest hint of a plan. The video is a bad joke, and no doubt insulting to most of the parties vested in this.

It reflects horribly on both DP and the whole project & pinball community.

Yet again, it looks like Barry & Jaap haven't thought this through. Do they really believe Universal or Xytech want to be associated with this shit?

They can claim that they have nothing to do with these guys, but they appear to be providing raffle prizes, and are endorsing it & providing a Paypal address. They can't hold it at arms' length under those circumstances.

Do they think ARA won't use this in court to help demonstrate that things were terribly run & DP had awful judgement, and that they are the losers, not the perpetrators? This will not help their case one iota. It just magnifies the stench of failure.

I think we all know Wayne's game, or his hoped for result, but I'd be surprised if he's not right, if and when Universal find out about this.

Simply can't believe anyone gave this adequate thought and came to the conclusion that any good could come from it, in the manner it has been presented. It looks like the ball of string that's been slowly unravelling has finally reached its end.

Damn. The DP debacle is so bad now, even rubberducks and I are in total agreement.

It’s a fan made movie so the rules are different when it comes to licensing. So Ballypinball, let’s see your proof of this, together with the proof of the MANY refunds ..... for a person not being an EA you are really very keen on getting this whole story to a bad end. Wonder what your motives are but glad we have half a planet between the both of us.

Not saying that Universal will not have an opinion on this but DP is not doing this. It are fans of TBL.

RTR, I am talking of the persons organizing the Gofundme don’t have any personal benefit from it besides that if it succeeds they will get their TBL as others. DP is NOT organizing this Gofundme.

But you know what. All those who know better, come with a plan. Otherwise just be happy with all efforts done to get you your game. Good or bad efforts as it may be. You have a better plan? Put it on the table.

I will leave you guys now alone. Gonna enjoy the remainder of my holiday. Cheers.

Sure, they may be totally honest and have the best will in the world.

But the point is that this makes things worse, not better, given the way it's been handled.

Holy shit. I respected Highdef and I found him intelligent and credible. To learn he's been a poser after all of these months is very disappointing.

The secret 7 are using Intellectual Property (IP) in that fuNd.me that does not belong to the 7.

I suspect you are not an IP lawyer.

Your conclusion is rejected.

I think Pinside put him on a vacation after something he posted attacking another member who was attacking him via PM. He did get a refund. It is not for me to share the proof, but he did get a refund.

His profile shows, "This account has been deactivated voluntarily by its owner".

No matter, I hope he did get his refund but I'm skeptical by his not returning emails and not helping others if he did.

I make no secret, I put in €100 to the GoFundMe.
I have bought a playfield set for a game I don’t even have and may never get, in a show of support.
It may be misplaced.. but I don’t think so.
Barry & Jaap could have taken more money in pre-orders, what another £200K! Instead they said hold as it was going south.
DP then refused refunds to have € for lawsuit. This was a dumb thing to do. A run on the bank would have certainly happened and DP would have gone under. Lawsuit did not come and another manufacturer was found near 1yr later.

After finding a Manufacturer and making 2 new prototypes, sending out to CoinTaker for approval and gearing up for production, informing us that about to order/have ordered parts ARA raise a lawsuit. It’s too convenient.

Barry and Jaap could have given up. Gone bankrupt but they have.. in a really painfull way kept going!

It wasn’t a JPOP- take $$$ on multiple games that would be released. It’s not a PONZI JJP - Woz, the deposit on Hobbit to pay for Woz, then parts trouble on hobbit to delay release by 4yrs!! ONLY that investor saved JJP. but that is forgotten because they got games out!

Sure DP should be more transparent and that is what I am asking for. I’m EA#125 and want to know more on this lawsuit. And where the €500k they are asking for is going.. Sure some for the lawyers and most, I hope is to start up production

Ooops! I’m EA 105 not 125

I'm not sure anyone seriously thinks this is another JPop / SkitB / HW, that was rotten to the core from the start, but there have been some bad decisions, and worse outcomes. Including this.

Ostensibly, this fundraising effort isn't their own, but they've apparently lent their support to it - seemingly committing prizes to a raffle (or lottery or whatever), which there aren't even any rules or terms for! That's almost certainly illegal, and DP should never associate with it.

Even if we know it's not (we don't really), this LOOKS so so so so bad. What are the licensor, CM, or prospective distributors** meant to think of this? Let alone the 'Early Achievers'.

Meanwhile, ARA and their lawyers must be rubbing their hands.

**Not just Nitro & CT, but Pinball Heaven were in, earlier in the year, and Freddy's looked like they might be.

I think the prizes is donation tier

Every €10 donation- details go in and raffle is drawn.
Every $20 donation a translite
Over $20 is raffle for the TBL pinball- if they make target- which I don’t think they will.. not €500K.

DP did not set up the GoFundMe. Seattle 7 did in a bid to try and help DP get games out. Not just theirs but everybody’s.
They are trying.. its actually doing something. All these Keyboard warriors- both IN and OUT of the game.. what is it actually achieving. NOTHING.. need to more of a collective.

Either come together to help DP get the games out, if it is successful then the extra money put in will be repaid some how I’m sure.
OR bitch and moan, type on the keyboard..

How many people bailed at Phil gate? Then when that was sorted out how many demanded back in at the same EA number!? Which DP did.. can’t help but think if people bailled and then DP win the case, people would expect back in at same price, same spot.

It was a risk from the beginning, so many have tried to make it in pinball and failed. DP are trying.
If you want to help them fail don’t come crying into your keyboards the HIGH prices of STERN games, the SHIT build quality etc...

I’d say this is just another nail in the coffin but the box is already buried 10ft under

They've taken the video down from the GoFundMe, now.

Where did you get that from? All it says is:

"Every donation of € 20,00 or more has a chance of winning one of the 15 Dude's cars, one of the 10 translites or... winning a real Big Lebowski Pinball Machine!"

Which is as vague as it could possibly get, and falls a long way short of terms and conditions. It doesn't even state that anything will definitely be given away, even if they raise €500k ... just that there's a "chance". The two are not necessarily the same. The chance could be 0.01% that anything actually gets given away.

They may well have great intentions, but the execution is hopeless and this is likely to cause DP more problems or place them under further suspicion.

Two days and 1/1000th of the way to goal. Without a miracle folks, listen for death rattles by September. What happens when a gofundme falls short of goal, everything vanishes?

IMG_0457 (resized).PNG

How is this getting so passed over?

If the license has been camcelled between Universal and D.P. , it's 100% game over. There is nothing to be produced. Only thing of any value is the alledgedly 50 machines sitting in the warehouse. That is the only thing I can see a fight for.

Because PETA isnt really about animals, it's about their agenda.

Also that go fund me is a joke lol.

Probably because he's claimed other 'facts', possibly with the agenda of hoping to score the ARA TBLs.

But I think it's pretty self-evident that Universal wouldn't approve of this farce ... and at some point they may well say enough is enough, especially when the licensee appears to be showing extremely poor judgement in endorsing something as badly organised as this. The reflection on their IP is not exactly desirable.

Rensh - You seem like a super nice guy and I would buy you a beer any day of the week and drink it with you. But I gotta respond when you say stuff like this.

DP is involved in the gofundme (how else could the S7 propose to give away "DP's" stuff?) There is no plan in place to assure gofundme money goes towards legal fees and production costs only. No transparency, no rules, no oversight no controls - all of the things Jaap and Barry need - even you guys trying to help them are really just enablers by not giving them some guidelines how they can use the funds. I know, I know, its not gonna fund anyway unless Jeff Bridges himself cuts a check, but he is not that dumb either. But still. One of the S7 could hit the lotto....

We (EA's, pinball community in general) have put better plans on the table constantly - see my thread where I urged DP to take the ARA deal. I have also written them on several occasions and posted my email correspondence in these threads. There have been a lot smarter guys than me chiming in with great advice (also ignored) all along.

I have been pretty consistent on advising DP not to walk away from the ARA contract. They have always needed to resolve this ARA overhang - no one would ever consider lending DP money with the ARA potential liability just sitting out there ready to bite them in the ass like it is right now.

No one will be able to say they didn't see this coming as DP goes belly up. We are all watching a painfully slow 3 year train wreck in progress. Many of us have been yelling at the Engineers to change course, but they just keep steaming ahead towards the wall.

Any day now he’ll be back with those details on how his aquaintences are scoring refunds

If it’s true and he actually knows something that could be of use to people that are out thousands of dollars here, it’s shameful that he has time to pop into the thread but cannot be bothered to share the necessary details. What gives?

People keep coming back on the deal proposed by ARA. This was a bad offer. ARA didn’t want to deliver these 40-50 units to us EA.

They wanted their hands freed to sell them somewhere else and than terminate the contract. They wouldn’t care about the storm it would cause in pinball country as it’s not their usual market and they would declare DP bankrupt.

As they can’t proof it DP never said a word about it but Rene at that moment hinted in a
meeting to DP that that was the plan. So Can’t proof it but the fact that ARA wouldn’t settle with full access to all the money should mean something. This money however would only be freed if delivered to EA’s. Selling somewhere else makes more money or do deliver to EAs and accept less money. Than sell the remaining parts also and most of ARA cost would have been covered and they would leave Pinball business for good and leave us EA with nothing. Getting only access to the money would force them in building all the pins. Having control over DP would enable the earlier plan.

Please also do note that ARA has proven broken earlier commitments and agreements. In hindsight ARA was a bad choice

Damned, now I did answer again while I am on holiday. Enjoying view on the Fiji Islands

Let’s further agree to disagree. Hope we will ever know what is the true story. My info is after all 1sided only. It’s only fair to admit that.

F380B37D-3D19-4605-B341-593487520165 (resized).jpeg

You are obviously more than just a buyer. You are completly disregarding the facts as we know them and defend DP so much that you seem to be a paid employee. Is the DP team on vacation with you?

Regardless of what you all think, you won't see me selling any TBL, I know of offers for the ARA games are well over $400k probably why they are trying to raise money to buy out the ARA games.

As far as this gofundme not having anything to do with DP why are they using DP PayPal account, they should reject the payments.

What are the FACTS exactly!

What we know:
1.) DP lied about the board faults to buy them some time. Then we found out it was due to supposed contract breach.
2.) ARA let Renee the General manager go with immediate effect.
3.) DP met with ARA about restarting pinball production. Couldn’t find a soloution
4.) DP hold everyone’s money for Defense of proposed lawsuit.
5.) after a year of waiting no lawsuit and DP find another manufacturer, build prototypes and send to CoinTaker for approval.
6.) DP start to move ahead with production with Xytech and ARA raise lawsuit..

Have I missed anything?
Everything else is people making speculations. Imaginations running wild.

I am not a paid employee but never made a secret of it that I am a friend of Barry.

Reason I bought a TBL wasn’t because of theme but because it was made in NL by DP-Barry. And yes, it looked nice . Have spent many hours with him debating this all.

Do I know it all? Nop, am human as all of you and as I mentioned in earlier posts I have to rely on my human antenna when it comes to the stories from Barry. Have not seen any contract is what I mean.

This for what’s it worth to you.

And no, DP is not with me on holiday. Befor any wild stories arise (its pinside after all), earned my own holiday through hard working for it. Just like I paid for the TBL.

Man, Dutch Pinball went from needing $1000 additional a game (according to DP that’s what ARA said they needed ), so 50k for the games held hostage, now they need $500K.

When the shit first hit the fan about circuit boards being a lie, I proposed that they should just pay the $1k per game even if ARA was wrong. Better to sue them after production and get the games out. But that assumes they had the $50k to do so. I think ARA knew DP were broke, were trying to get them to raise additional capital for this move to avoid them not getting paid any final payments.

This is the perils of the preorder model. You have to take in all this money assuming your calculations on cost of manufacturing is accurate, sometimes years before manufacturing. It means you start a business not allowed to make any mistakes. Even if ARA pulled a screw job to DP trying to get an additional $1k per game, which I don’t believe... that’s actually Barry and Jaap’s fault in some ways. They funded a preorder model with exactly how much money it takes to build a game. They entered a contract with an established company who had surplus money vs DP which did not. ARA would have known they had no money for legal representation, because the preorder money was only earmarked for manufacturing costs.

If you look at Heighway pinball; they took preorder money, AND direct investment, and they still couldn’t make it. Granted I think a contract manufacturer is probably a smarter thing than trying to in house everything (and how Chicago gaming made it work for their first game); but still. If you don’t keep retained earnings and rely solely on preorder money you’re gonna fail.

What's crazy is if you apply what ARA wanted extra per machine across the ENTIRE run of 300, that would still only come to 300,000 euros. Still cheaper than this gofundme and everyone would have gotten their games.

I agree with you that this thread contains lots of speculation and unfounded contentions (much of which is from apparent "Donny come latelys" who haven't done their homework and accept all prior posts as factual).

One other FACT, unfortunately, that I can add to your list though is that Dutch Pinball has continued to be less than forthcoming with information that would enable their true TBL customers to confidently feel other than much of what is being negatively asserted in this thread.

This is a great suggestion. The sooner EAs turn into creditors officially on the books in the lawsuit the better. The gofundme would pay for a good lawyer familiar with International Law.

No offense here, but if they are truly broke, what will that achieve? You can’t get blood from a stone. If there is no money or assets to split up, then it doesn’t matter if you win and get a multi-million dollar settlement or lose the case, either way you get nothing.

No it isn't. Any lawyer will just tell you that won't happen. Buyers can't skip the line and become the most preferred of preferred creditors.

Assuming they go under and the proceeds from DP / Driessen/Nauta Holding liquidations are enough to sate ARA (& what ever debt they may have incurred with Xytech), then the remainder will go to any smaller preferred creditors, and then finally EAs. EAs suing DP will just make that pool smaller, and bankruptcy more likely (though currently that seems almost assured anyway).

The only hope EAs have really is that DP somehow manage to scrape enough cash together to get through the court case, win, and are then awarded both fees and damages.

*THEN* EAs could potentially sue with the hope of financial restitution. But presumably if that happened, there would be some hope of the games being made, or Barry & Jaap would just call it quits and disburse the cash, so a lawsuit would likely be pointless anyway.

They could sue now for 'justice', but they'd be ensuring that they never saw a penny - even if likelihood is small of seeing something anyway.

Such a provision could have been written into the sale agreement. Assuming that was really DP's reason for shooting down the deal.

You're defending a "buddy" who took a shit ton of money from a lot of people and now it appears to be all gone.
WHERES THE MONEY??? Where's all the flipping money??!
Quit placing all this blame on ARA. That's crap.
If he's such a great guy and has nothing to hide then have him post his financials on Pinside showing where every penny went. Was Barry taking a 6 figure salary? Do you know?
Show some transparency.
If he's got nothing to hide then let's see it.
I smell a rat that's hoping he won't get sued by a bunch of guys in the states and you're just trying to keep the waters calm by posting its ARA's fault.

Most startups survive off ramen and hot dogs.

These guys threw presidential suite parties and crossed the Atlantic god knows how many times.

Do the math.

The whole stench of this thing started LONG before ARA ever got involved.

Philgate was an ominous sign of things to come. Thank you Phil. It could have been much worse

Yes it took me a long time and a few others to root out Jpop and that disaster

The same result is coming

Can you imagine ARA having to deal with Barry and Jaap! And their lies and misrepresentations

The go fund me effort looks to me like a way to extend keeping them out of bankruptcy. Another win for the lawyers

The games sitting at ARA are gonna get sold by them to cover debts through the bankruptcy process

Just a matter of time

Bingo. Barry is full of shit,

Philgate was awesome. We sold a LOT of AMHs that week.

I think Phil knew what was coming and tried to pull the rip cord.

always thought if DP folded into Spooky that it would be the dream team of small manufacturer. DP as the design house and spooky for business management / manufacturing.

IMHO TBL is a better game than what spooky has put out (sans TNA but that's not trying to match bally/williams style)

Oh I agree DP made a top-notch game with TBL. So top notch they ran out of money.

I also agree with your idea about people bringing stuff to Spooky to build - look how well that's worked with TNA.

RE: contract manufacturing consider this: STERN of all companies bailed from the contract manufacture of MMr. If a pinball company said "fuck it" imagine how awful it must be for a "generic" CM?

From GoFundMe page:
"Now DP needs help to pay their lawyers and to start up the production with another manufacturer.'

Maybe I missed this, but did you get around to donating this money?

Good catch! I am sure Ballypinball is eager to put his money closer to his mouth!

I hadn’t followed this thread for a while...didn’t think the situation could fall any lower...gofundme, I can’t believe my eyes.