(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

4 years ago



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#7901 1 year ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

https://www.gofundme.com/seattle-seven
Well there’s this....
Only a half million euros? Well at least we know roughly how bad the financial picture is.
Does anyone else think this is DP themselves setting this up? So the whole go fund me is basically just a raffle to raise half a million euros. Ok, got it.

Donate now .... and win TBL pinball later, much later props to the video though, it is edited really nicely.

#7902 1 year ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Only a half million euros?

The precedent for the top end of successful Pinball related crowdfunds is in the $50k-$75k mark. Including the Pinball Arcade ones.

Stern Book: $55k
PAPA TV: $58k
Pinball Arcade... $50k - $75k.

To go for a magnitude of 10 over what were very high profile pinball crowdfund projects, and it's to pay for a legal bill with "raffles" as a prize... this is just not well thought out.

It's funny, because in the first 20 seconds of the video, they reminded me why I wanted a TBL in the first place. THAT is what they need to shore up... future buyer interest. Not to take my money, but to make sure there is someone to sell a game to later, otherwise, what was the point?

What if they built a list of buyers (already money in) and potential interest buyers (like me), whom they can make money from later. Then shop that around to investors. And if you can't build a list of prospects, what do you have left?

#7903 1 year ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Can garantuee you that this isn’t a setup from DP. They assisted in supplying materials and stuff but the initiative is not theirs. This as stated in their last NSN

“Thank you
The Seattle Seven

PS if you have no creditcard, you can send your donation to paypal@dutchpinball.com”.

#7904 1 year ago

So $583,634 US dollars. That’s 68 early achiever machines right there at 8500. The magnitude of how much money must have been squandered is wild. But imagine how many games would have to be sold at $10k to cover those costs and scrape up enough to cover cost to build the hundred plus machines for early achievers who got screwed. The math just doesn’t add up...lawsuit or not, how do they build and sell enough games to hope to be able to supply games to early achievers? And at what price? They would have to nearly double the price but no one would pay those prices for a game when the exclusivity is gone. The 20k price now is driven by scarcity. These things go back into production in earnest and that value plummets as well as the prospective price ceiling for the new production games. Can anyone describe a truly viable path forward short of an angel investor who doesn’t care if he just throws money away with no return just for the love of the game?

#7905 1 year ago
Quoted from Dkjimbo:

Can anyone describe a truly viable path forward short of an angel investor

Angels take chances, but don't just throw their money away. What is presented to an Angel has to make sense, or has a path to victory.

And yeah, I don't know if that path exists. It may have never have existed.

I've often wondered if ANY of the pinball startups had a real plan. Short of Spooky, who demonstrated what real bootstrapping is, because they weren't getting free/easy money from heaven.

#7906 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Angels take chances, but don't just throw their money away. What is presented to an Angel has to make sense, or has a path to victory.
And yeah, I don't know if that path exists. It may have never have existed.
I've often wondered if ANY of the pinball startups had a real plan. Short of Spooky, who demonstrated what real bootstrapping is, because they weren't getting free/easy money from heaven.

100% agree - whether you like their games or not, their business model was and is spot on. Slow and steady wins the race. And they have been nimble and adaptable...taking on contract work like Dominos, the super success that is TNA and the relationship with Scott Danisi. It’s not rocket science! How many ostentatious parties did spooky throw?

#7907 1 year ago

I can confirm Rensh's comment, the Gofund is not a setup from DP.

#7908 1 year ago

€500,000 to anonymous individuals who've given essentially no information about anything, whom DP claim they are not associated with.

What could possibly go wrong?

They took all the time to do that video ... but couldn't give any useful information at all? No plan laid out? No timetable? We haven't heard whether the title is even ready to go into production (not from DP)? Or is the video of DP's doing? Either way ....

Perhaps the thing that's most worrying is the assertion that this is partly to pay to start production with a new manufacturer. There's no mention of Xytech whatsoever. Though if they are still sitting on the sidelines, hoping that DP manage to resolve this, if I were them, I'd have requested the company's name be removed. Total embarrassment to be associated with something like this.

If Xytech are still there, then it tends to suggest that either they & DP had hit an impasse and production was *not* going to begin because DP couldn't fulfil their financial demands, or due to the court case they're refusing to begin production until they get paid first.

I suppose the one small ray of hope is that if the latter is the case, it probably means that Xytech still think there's a reasonable chance that DP will win the court case.

I don't see how this GoFundMe can possibly succeed, at least not with the information provided.

If the 'Seattle 7' have any real confidence in DP, why don't they buy a stake in the company for €500k? I doubt DP are going to turn them down at this stage.

If people want to contribute to a pinball GoFundMe, I'd suggest doing so for Dave Sanders'. As a full time employee for years and the company's lead designer, he never got paid a penny, despite constant promises of remuneration by Andrew Heighway, and the latter even demanding that Dave lend him money (never repaid).

https://www.gofundme.com/dave-sanders-fund

#7909 1 year ago

You can't write stories this good.

Finally I got to hallucinate once in my life! ( - :

#7910 1 year ago

Just for Info: How much TBL were ordered and paid for but never delivered?
Or in other words: How much money was simply burned?

#7911 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Just for Info: How much TBL were ordered and paid for but never delivered?
Or in other words: How much money was simply burned?

I think 160-170 of the EAs were paid in full. The remainder (30-40) were part paid.

100+ plus other orders through CoinTaker and Nitro, mostly deposit only - though both they & DP state the money never left them.

#7912 1 year ago

"Every donation of € 20,00 or more has a chance of winning one of the 15 Dude's cars, one of the 10 translites or... winning a real Big Lebowski Pinball Machine!"

They already have 4 donations totaling $290 euros and 56 shares on Facebook - looks like its off to a roaring start. They must have put 4 more detectives on the case and are working in shifts.

290 euros donated so far equals $338. Assessing the current value of a TBL at 20k, the cars at $100 each, and the translates at $200 - looks like Dumb and Dumber are upside down on the gofundme by about $23,162 so far. If nothing else, they are at least consistent in their dumbass business plans.

#7913 1 year ago

I have no doubt that DP has the license to The Big Lebowski IP. But, I bet Universal might shout “OVER THE LINE” when they see TBL IP used in a video for a legal defense gofundme. I would expect a cease and desist will result in a takedown of this strategy pretty soon.

I want this to work out well. At the end of the day. There is a load of demand. There is a designed and manufacturable product, already tooled up.

#7914 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I think 160-170 of the EAs were paid in full. The remainder (30-40) were part paid.
100+ plus other orders through CoinTaker and Nitro, mostly deposit only - both they & DP state the money never left them though.

How much were they and how many got deilvered?

(Sorry I'm new here... in this thread)

#7915 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

290 euros donated so far equals $338. Assessing the current value of a TBL at 20k, the cars at $100 each, and the translates at $200 - looks like Dumb and Dumber are upside down on the gofundme by about $23,162 so far. If nothing else, they are at least consistent in their dumbass business plans.

oh my gosh. You're right. There are 26 prizes stated. 15 cars, 10 translites, 1 machine. So for the whopping total of 20 euros x 26 = 520 euros, they're on the hook to give all those prizes away to those donors. dumbass is a good word. yikes.

#7916 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

oh my gosh. You're right. There are 26 prizes stated. 15 cars, 10 translites, 1 machine. So for the whopping total of 20 euros x 26 = 520 euros, they're on the hook to give all those prizes away to those donors. dumbass is a good word. yikes.

They are on the hook for 100+ Big Lewbowski pinball machines too, what's a few cars, translites and 1 more machine? I think anyone who donates has about as much of a chance at receiving their prizes as people paid in full have of receiving their games.

#7917 1 year ago
Quoted from Draegermeister:

I have no doubt that DP has the license to The Big Lebowski

Sorry but there's no way it hasn't expired by now. Also proving ability to manufacture is required now which they've also failed at.

This is like a dog with 3 broken legs. Might still be alive but best to put a bullet in its head.

#7918 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Sorry but there's no way it hasn't expired by now. Also proving ability to manufacture is required now which they've also failed at.
This is like a dog with 3 broken legs. Might still be alive but best to put a bullet in its head.

PETA hates you.

#7919 1 year ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

PETA hates you.

I'm sure they do!

#7920 1 year ago

We think there's 150 outstanding orders right? so that's $3300 per person to get to 500k. And I would imagine this legal 500k goal is more, possibly much more, than whatever the ARA price increase that they balked at was? That seems more likely to fund than getting 500k from strangers or EAs without it concretely pointing to progress against their own specific game.

#7921 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Sorry but there's no way it hasn't expired by now. Also proving ability to manufacture is required now which they've also failed at.
This is like a dog with 3 broken legs. Might still be alive but best to put a bullet in its head.

DP would have had a much bigger company than ARA on them if they weren’t clean (or cleanish) in Universal’s view. My main point is that the gofundme is based off of stolen IP, which is not legal, but also tacky AF.

#7922 1 year ago
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#7923 1 year ago

The Go Fund Me program isn't going that great. Only 4 of the Seattle Seven have donated!

#7924 1 year ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

The Go Fund Me program isn't going that great. Only 4 of the Seattle Seven have donated!

3 of them didn't have a credit card so they sent PayPal donations....

#7925 1 year ago
Quoted from Nilroc:

The Go Fund Me program isn't going that great. Only 4 of the Seattle Seven have donated!

The other three will probably pay by check. What do you get for a $0.69 donation?

Ralphs (resized).jpg

#7926 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

This is like a dog with 3 broken legs. Might still be alive but best to put a bullet in its head.

As a fully invested EA and still fan of the game, I hope this "dog" somehow, some way, manages to survive.

#7927 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Donate now .... and win TBL pinball later, much later props to the video though, it is edited really nicely.

Well, the voice seems to be computer-generated.
As to the edited videos, I can't understand how (if?) Universal cleared the rights to re-use the studio's copyrighted content in such a gofundme promotion.
That surprised me, quite a bit.

This whole mess just gets better and better for lawyers. UGH.

#7928 1 year ago
Quoted from twoplays25c:

Well, the voice seems to be computer-generated.

I don't think so. I think the voices were done by europeans trying to do an American accent, specifically the first actor trying to do an american 'western' accent like the cowboy in the film.

#7929 1 year ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I don't think so. I think the voices were done by europeans trying to do an American accent, specifically the first actor trying to do an american 'western' accent like the cowboy in the film.

Nah, almost certainly a soundbox from some audio package.

#7930 1 year ago
Quoted from Richthofen:

I don't think so. I think the voices were done by europeans trying to do an American accent, specifically the first actor trying to do an american 'western' accent like the cowboy in the film.

That's better then old Stern with "Sopranos" featuring german callouts... done in Chicago by People who don't speak the language.
You can barely understand what they're saying but that makes itkKind of fun.

#7931 1 year ago

Voices sound like a bunch of nihilists....
Several things wrong about this gofundme. One obvious issue is DP is not associated with nor endorses this effort, so other than the illustrious reputation of Seattle 7, who's to say they would turn over collected funds? While video is entertaining, there were numerous omissions from the storyline. As stated there is no timeline given, and more importantly where were the movie scenes from TBL that discuss money? And what did DP do with the money they were entrusted with the first time?



IMG_0443 (resized).PNG

#7932 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I can confirm Rensh's comment, the Gofund is not a setup from DP.

Source please.

Who are the seven?

Are you a member of the seven, and is that how you can make your assertions?

#7933 1 year ago

Again I ask DP, Where's the fu@king money Lebowski? The preorder money, is it still safe in the escrow account? What, there never was a plan to set aside 50% of money to actually build the games? WTF, these guys are clowns!
IMG_0445.GIFIMG_0446.GIFIMG_0448.GIFIMG_0450.GIFIMG_0451.GIFIMG_0452.GIFIMG_0453.GIF

#7934 1 year ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

Source please.
Who are the seven?
Are you a member of the seven, and is that how you can make your assertions?

I was asked to join the group after a brief introduction and I know of its founding member. This was a few months ago and I was getting ready to list my TBL for sale. I told him at that time, that I felt my presence under those circumstances might seem inappropriate and make some people uncomfortable. I respectfully declined.

10
#7935 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I was asked to join the group after a brief introduction and I know of its founding member. This was a few months ago and I was getting ready to list my TBL for sale. I told him at that time, that I felt my presence under those circumstances might seem inappropriate and make some people uncomfortable. I respectfully declined.

They should make themselves known. This schtick isn't cute...hiding behind movie nicknames, making stupid videos, asking for money & and calling ARA "nihilists" is just ridiculous considering people have lost lots of money & don't trust anyone involved with DP at this point.

If they are serious about this working out, full transparency...no more games.

#7936 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They should make themselves known. This schtick isn't cute...hiding behind movie nicknames, making stupid videos, asking for money & and calling ARA "nihilists" is just ridiculous considering people have lost lots of money & don't trust anyone involved with DP at this point.
If they are serious about this working out, full transparency...no more games.

That's not my call as I'm sure you realise.

#7937 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They should make themselves known. This schtick isn't cute...hiding behind movie nicknames, making stupid videos, asking for money & and calling ARA "nihilists" is just ridiculous considering people have lost lots of money & don't trust anyone involved with DP at this point.
If they are serious about this working out, full transparency...no more games.

Agreed. The slapsticky attempt at humor is frankly an insult to those effected by this scandal. If they want any chance of getting anywhere near their goal, there is only one way. Full transparency, all cards in the table, all books exposed, every detail out there. This is all just more of the same laughable nonsense. The people in the hobby in positions to buy this game are not idiots or bumbling clowns laughing at these poor attempts at jokes. Lay out a business case. How does half million euros solve the problem? What’s the result? What assurances are in place?

I think we already know the answers to all of these though which is exactly what is predicating the secretive jokey foolishness presently laid before us.

#7938 1 year ago

If they (and DP) thought €500k was a panacea, they'd have raised the capital themselves and bought a chunk (probably most) of the company.

The GoFundMe is a glorified raffle with no rules and no clear purpose.

#7939 1 year ago

The Secret Seattle Seven (4 guys who actually donated about $300) is a joke. DP now panhandling for money is a disgrace and more.

Also - I Highly doubt Highdef got a refund. I PM'd him a couple of times for details/insight. He has now inactivated his account.

#7940 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

Also - I Highly doubt Highdef got a refund. I PM'd him a couple of times for details/insight. He has now inactivated his account.

I PM'd him too - right away. No response.

#7941 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

The Secret Seattle Seven (4 guys who actually donated about $300) is a joke. DP now panhandling for money is a disgrace and more.
Also - I Highly doubt Highdef got a refund. I PM'd him a couple of times for details/insight. He has now inactivated his account.

Completely agree! This is the last money grab to see if there are just a Few dollars left on the tree to scam. IF they wanted to be true and honest (yeah) gentleman as a few here like to say they should start a GoFundme starting with an apology and the fund drive solely to Refund the EA buyers of their criminal neglect and stupidity. All proceeds to the many we conned no matter what value is raised. I would Absolutely contribute to That fundme! That would be an honest stand up move. Granted that will Never happen...

#7942 1 year ago

Did any of the Seattle Seven ever do any math about what it would take to crowd fund €500 large?

The Stern book had 444 backers. So that would be €1126 per backer average needed to replicate.

PAPA TV had 724 backers. So in this case that would only need €690 from each of them.

Now, in the PAPA case, the average amount of money was $81.23

And for the Stern book the average amount of money was $124.58

So almost a ten times average for each, needed.

Now, of course the Seattle Seven might have thought they'd get waaaaay more support than either the Stern book or PAPA did. Because this is going to get so much more support than either of those projects..... ummmm, yeah.

So.... 2000 random pinball people step up to save this. In that case you'd only need €250 from each of 2000 people. Piece of cake.

#7943 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They should make themselves known. This schtick isn't cute...hiding behind movie nicknames, making stupid videos, asking for money & and calling ARA "nihilists" is just ridiculous considering people have lost lots of money & don't trust anyone involved with DP at this point.
If they are serious about this working out, full transparency...no more games.

ETERNALLIFE

#7944 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Did any of the Seattle Seven ever do any math about what it would take to crowd fund €500 large?
The Stern book had 444 backers. So that would be €1126 per backer average needed to replicate.
PAPA TV had 724 backers. So in this case that would only need €690 from each of them.
Now, in the PAPA case, the average amount of money was $81.23
And for the Stern book the average amount of money was $124.58
So almost a ten times average for each, needed.
Now, of course the Seattle Seven might have thought they'd get waaaaay more support than either the Stern book or PAPA did. Because this is going to get so much more support than either of those projects..... ummmm, yeah.
So.... 2000 random pinball people step up to save this. In that case you'd only need €250 from each of 2000 people. Piece of cake.

Math has never been their strongest attribute - DP or the DP apologists. They never make math arguments.

#7945 1 year ago

The majority of people that would be seeing this GoFundMe would already know about the machine; either because they are an EA, or they know this forum, or at the very least they aren’t a Pinsider, but they’ve just known about the machine for the last few years since it was announced.
I can’t imagine many of the people that fall into any of the above categories would be willing to put up any money after knowing the saga thus far. So who are the people that the S7 / DP are expecting to back this?

The Big Lebowski is one of my favourite movies and I’m sure more and more people of new generations of fans have got on board with the movie , but the % of those people who would want to put up money for a pinball machine seems implausible as well.

It just doesn’t make sense.

#7946 1 year ago
Quoted from RTR:

The Secret Seattle Seven (4 guys who actually donated about $300) is a joke. DP now panhandling for money is a disgrace and more.
Also - I Highly doubt Highdef got a refund. I PM'd him a couple of times for details/insight. He has now inactivated his account.

I’ve often wondered his/her motivations.

#7947 1 year ago

Anyone else notice the PayPal address on the go fund me is a dutchpinball.com address?

Does that mean DP is behind this or at least directly getting the money?

Not that this info makes me want to donate... especially given the lack of any useful information to perspective donors or current customers.

#7948 1 year ago

Why not play the same game as its a free world. One of the EA forgotten should start a GoFundme page to gather funds to hire the Best lawyer in the land (preferrably one of OJ's team) to sue DP for the millions stolen for it's victims. See if there is an option to tie the page to their fund page for funzies.

-5
#7949 1 year ago

Target of the Gofundme is not pinball enthusiasts, it are Lebowski dudes who are supportive. Not those participating in this thread. And Lebowski fans run in the millions ....

Be happy somebody is trying something. Like or don’t like it but just don’t donate if you don’t like it and just wish the action all the best and leave it alone. Us EA have nothing to loose with this after all, you can only win.

And I think most people agree that DP has likely made some bad business decisions but has not spend our money on Big cars and big houses. Can’t proof this statement but I know where Jaap and Barry live and what they drive for instance. No Fiji islands, illegal none licensed activity, empty cabinets at expos or boats envolved here.

AlSo seeing a dutchpinball paypal address assures you that the money is going to DP and not some conmen.

So please just wish it all the best or better, start your own initiatives. Rally up a bank willing to support this matter as some suggest. Apparently it’s very easy to get 500K I have read ....... I don’t have it for sure. Sales numbers are there but for those thinking that going to a bank with orders for let’s say 500 TBLs will get you immediate the money, try it .....

Guess I will need a flamesuit again....
Just a pitty that initiatives like this are so critized as the founders have clearly no personal gain. Just trying something to favour us EA.

#7950 1 year ago

LMAO, pay more money to bail Barry and Jaap out of the disaster they created. Sucker born every minute!

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