The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)

(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

3 years ago



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#7851 83 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Where can we follow this?

Was in the open in their last newsletter

http://www.dutchpinball.com/specials

#7852 83 days ago

I was hoping there would be some follow up on details. I suppose not though...

Thanks, Rensh.

#7853 83 days ago

I did see an a German forum somebody posting a picture of a 16KEUR bid close to ending. So suppose it’s in that price range if that’s the info you are looking for.

AA02F587-F564-46D8-A673-256E4E17C92B (resized).jpeg
#7854 83 days ago

For them to suddenly end it, I'd imagine they either got a very high offer, or they really need to get cash to their lawyers. Given that they didn't mention any terms for the duration of the auction.

#7855 83 days ago

Hopefully it sold for:

index (resized).jpg
10
#7856 83 days ago

If an EA bought it do they get an $8500 discount for what they have already paid???

#7857 83 days ago

Does anyone know if DP actually acquired UL, CE, or even FCC certification? I know Stern, CGC, and JJP certify their machines, but I can't find anything on DP.

#7858 82 days ago
Quoted from Pinhead1982:

Auction for the Sample Game has closed.

Just wondering, did one of the Seattle Seven get it?

#7859 82 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

Does anyone know if DP actually acquired UL, CE, or even FCC certification? I know Stern, CGC, and JJP certify their machines, but I can't find anything on DP.

Nope none of the above, and even if they had, would need to again as changes were made to boards etc

#7860 82 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Nope none of the above, and even if they had, would need to again as changes were made to boards etc

That's what I thought. People need to be mindful of the risk and liability, especially with a high voltage engineering sample.

1 week later
#7861 71 days ago

I AM NO LONGER AN EARLY ACHIEVER.

About 8 months ago (last Fall), I gave DP an “ultimatum” here on Pinside with a deadline of January 2018. I let it ride when January came around and DP led us to believe production was beginning with Xytech. The announcement of the ARA lawsuit in May was the last straw for me, especially when I asked for a refund and was told there was nothing I could do but wait even longer and hope for a good outcome.

A couple of days after my ultimatum post last Fall, a certain “podcaster” decided to chime-in and provide his unsolicited opinions and observations on my post. He stated the following on his pinball podcast (Episode #169):

- “You are not in a position to demand ANYTHING.”
- “When you invest in a company, their issues become your issues.”
- “You invested in a startup.”
- “Their pitfalls become your pitfalls; their headaches are your headaches; their mishaps are your mishaps.”
- “There is nothing you can do.”
- “You can’t go after CoinTaker.”

The irony here is that a few days later, this same podcaster posted a now-deleted rant episode where he threatened to leave the hobby and stop podcasting over similar issues and frustration he was having with his Magic Girl. He got on his high horse and preached to me about what I could not do or demand, yet he did the SAME EXACT THING a couple of days later. Of course, he deleted the rant episode and apologized to CT in a follow-up episode, but not once did he ever acknowledge his hypocrisy or follow-up on the contradictory statements made in Episode #169. I am here to say that this podcaster should steer clear from giving anyone legal advice and stick to ad campaigns with music artists from the 80s.

I do want to address some of his comments:
1) I never invested in a startup; I invested in a product. I coincidentally received another (separate) refund today from a crowdfunding company. In that instance, I paid $299 + $20 shipping for a product that I never received. The company left 10,000+ people out to dry, but I decided to pursue a rightful refund on my own, which resulted in success. It’s foolish advice to tell someone that their SOL if a company fails to deliver a product -- no matter if it’s $1 or $10,000. A company’s “pitfalls,””issues,” or “headaches” are NOT the customer’s problem.
2) I WAS in the position to demand a refund and there WAS something I could do about it (which I successfully did).
3) I could make several other counterpoints, but it’s pointless. After all, this is the same guy who got kicked out of a pinball tournament. That’s like getting expelled from Romper Room or evicted from Sesame Street. He never retracted the statements he made in that episode, which is why I am finally addressing it here. The "tantrum" he threw a few days later for the same exact thing was hypocritical and I wish he would have acknowledged it.

I won’t go into details on how I got a refund (it wasn’t voluntary), but I accomplished it without directly contacting Universal. DP could have saved money had they just refunded my money when I initially asked for it, but they gave me no other option other than to trust them. There’s definitely a reason why that Engineering Sample was “auctioned off” a few weeks ago.

I am crushed because I really wanted this game, but I wasn’t willing to be left out to dry, should that day come. There’s also the statute of limitations, the fact that DP is a company in The Netherlands, and there isn't a clear-cut plan on schedule/ETA of EA games. I am also concerned about future support and operability. I would be willing to consider paying an additional $1500 if/when they get all preorder games to customers. In the meantime, I no longer need to stress over the possibility of losing out on $8500 or waiting another year or so for the game to finally arrive.

In conclusion, there IS a way to obtain a refund and you ARE entitled to seek it. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. I do hope the remaining EAs finally get their game. I do not wish for DP to fail despite some of Jaap’s ballsy statements/guilt trips, along with his lack of knowledge pertaining to international consumer laws.

Best of luck to the remaining EAs.

#7862 71 days ago

^ PM box full

#7863 71 days ago

This is one of many refunds i know about, did you read this proof Rensh ??

Calling people liars is a disgrace

Congrats to people who received refunds

#7864 71 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

I won’t go into details on how I got a refund (it wasn’t voluntary), but I accomplished it without directly contacting Universal.

Why not?!? You’ve got your refund (and congratulations on that, must be a huge relief), now share what you know and give others a shot.

Quoted from Ballypinball:

This is one of many refunds i know about, did you read this proof Rosh ?

Are you finally ready to share any actionable details on how your acquaintances are wrangling refunds? People were questioning your veracity because you provided nothing concrete to back up your statements. If you have information that could help people recover funds, for God’s sake out with it already. Maybe it’ll do some good and at least a few more people might get some money back before the Titanic goes down here.

#7865 71 days ago

.

#7866 71 days ago

And those of us left will move up in line.

#7867 71 days ago

Also wondering how people can get DP to refund their full payment. I'll bet many are willing to swear allegiance to the Nihilist's Oath, adopt a marmoset or know the magic phrase is the Dude Abides. What seems more likely is a deposit refund from Cointaker.

Quoted from JimB:

And those of us left will move up in line.

the bad news is the line doesn't lead anywhere or to anything.

#7868 71 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

This is one of many refunds i know about, did you read this proof Rosh ??

Is there another rosh or did you mistype the name ?

#7869 71 days ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Also wondering how people can get DP to refund their full payment

if I had to guess... it's by working through the consumer protections in the netherlands directly. Instead of trying to lob threats over a vast ocean far away...

#7870 71 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

I won’t go into details on how I got a refund (it wasn’t voluntary), but I accomplished it without directly contacting Universal. DP could have saved money had they just refunded my money when I initially asked for it, but they gave me no other option other than to trust them. There’s definitely a reason why that Engineering Sample was “auctioned off” a few weeks ago.

Great!

So now they just have to auction off a bunch more of these engineering samples and refund everyone!

Perfect plan!

#7871 71 days ago

DP might want to release a NSNL and start moving forward on building pinballs. This could get ugly fast.

#7872 71 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

DP might want to release a NSNL and start moving forward on building pinballs. This could get ugly fast.

It is way past ugly already.

#7873 71 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

DP might want to release a NSNL and start moving forward on building pinballs. This could get ugly fast.

DP might want to start building pinballs, but as they've told us they're out of cash, so they cannot.

#7874 71 days ago

High Voltage Engineering Sample. I would have my house wired to accommodate the machine (if I had it) rather than try and convert it.
It may be the simplest thing in the world to do for someone in the know. Do high voltage games play faster or the toys operate better?
I have always wanted one of these machines.
When that Euro Judge makes a final decision I feel a lot of proprietary hardware and Licensed artwork could go in a dumpster, being from a Manufacturing
background I've seen it happen several times.
Before that happens every person that invested their money in this machine should be on a list of outstanding creditors included among the other
mountain of paperwork this case has. How that would happen is up to you.
Without it the Judge has nothing to go on.

#7875 71 days ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

DP might want to start building pinballs, but as they've told us they're out of cash, so they cannot.

I do believe 100% they have no liquidity, but they would be fools if they were out of funds completely knowing that ARA was lurking waiting to strike. I still believe they have money tied up in both a legal fund as well as an escrow account with xytec to start the build process. They had to pony up something to get the ball rolling given their history.

#7876 70 days ago

I have something to confess and a couple of questions:

1- I still have a $1,000 deposit sitting with Nitro Pinball out of Vancouver for a Big Lebowski game. I realize that things are super rocky but I've still got 1%-5 % hope that it still might happen. Yes, I know I'm an idiot but what the hell, it still might come through, right?
2 - If there are 50 games sitting at ARA then why doesn't Dutch just settle with ARA? They can be suborn and get nothing or they can settle and get what.... 50 games x $6,000 +/- so that 's $300,000 or so?
3 - Dutch is severely underfunded or out of money, correct? Why can't they find some financial support to see this through? A bank, an investor, their mom? I mean really, what would it take to get the train back on the tracks. A million? 1.5 million?

This whole thing appears to be pretty "small time". Not "small time' to those who have lost thousands. That is significant to those that paid damn good money for something that was promised but they never received.

I mean it's small time in terms of the actual money needed to make this project happen and deliver it to the honest/enthusiastic customers out there.

Yep, I just don't understand it all. Maybe Dutch just needs to reach out to the right people who offer them a life line and "just let go".

Barry, Japp....... sometimes it's right there, under you nose......

QSS

#7877 70 days ago

1. No

2. Stupidity and the ship has likely sailed

3. Throw them a cool million and hope for the best?

#7878 70 days ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

3. Throw them a cool million and hope for the best?

That's not what I was thinking when I suggested that they "just let go".

QSS

#7879 70 days ago
Quoted from Micky:

It is way past ugly already.

Not even close.

The existing ARA machines could potentially end up in the hands of an uninvolved third party dealer and being resold back to the original NA/European pre order buyers.

#7880 70 days ago
Quoted from rosh:

Is there another rosh or did you mistype the name ?

I believe he meant Rensh.

#7881 70 days ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:

I have something to confess and a couple of questions:
1- I still have a $1,000 deposit sitting with Nitro Pinball out of Vancouver for a Big Lebowski game. I realize that things are super rocky but I've still got 1%-5 % hope that it still might happen. Yes, I know I'm an idiot but what the hell, it still might come through, right?
2 - If there are 50 games sitting at ARA then why doesn't Dutch just settle with ARA? They can be suborn and get nothing or they can settle and get what.... 50 games x $6,000 +/- so that 's $300,000 or so?
3 - Dutch is severely underfunded or out of money, correct? Why can't they find some financial support to see this through? A bank, an investor, their mom? I mean really, what would it take to get the train back on the tracks. A million? 1.5 million?
This whole thing appears to be pretty "small time". Not "small time' to those who have lost thousands. That is significant to those that paid damn good money for something that was promised but they never received.
I mean it's small time in terms of the actual money needed to make this project happen and deliver it to the honest/enthusiastic customers out there.
Yep, I just don't understand it all. Maybe Dutch just needs to reach out to the right people who offer them a life line and "just let go".
Barry, Japp....... sometimes it's right there, under you nose......
QSS

I think the biggest issue with your math on #2 is Even if they stole them from the plant there are MANY in line that paid in full or close to it so even releasing 50 would still yield them 0$ to build more and even less to pay the final bill due to ARA. You ask "what would it take to get it on the tracks?" A real team of people that know how to actually run a Business. Thats the step they missed all along!

#7882 70 days ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

I believe he meant Rensh.

I think he meant me indeed.

Still awaiting his proof of MANY refunds. Don’t think that he knew about highdef refund (neither did I) when he made his claim.

Can’t object to Highdef wanting a refund. He didn’t get (yet) a product after all. I guess we all do know where this ends when refunds are unforced by us EA. Should this stop you? This is for every person to decide for themselves.

This is exactly why I think ARA started a courtcase. Not that they thought they would win but other buyers would cripple and bankrupt DP befor the courtcase is on. Sad day.

#7883 70 days ago
Quoted from rosh:

Is there another rosh or did you mistype the name ?

Sorry rensh. Bloody auto correct.

Ps you coming to Australia in December?

#7884 70 days ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I think the biggest issue with your math on #2 is Even if they stole them from the plant there are MANY in line that paid in full or close to it so even releasing 50 would still yield them 0$ to build more and even less to pay the final bill due to ARA. You ask "what would it take to get it on the tracks?" A real team of people that know how to actually run a Business. Thats the step they missed all along!

Good point.

QSS

#7885 70 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Sorry rensh. Bloody auto correct.
Ps you coming to Australia in December?

Wish i where. Missing USD 8500 to be Able to afford the trip

What’s happening than in December? We have in November our own Dutch Pinball Open.

#7886 70 days ago

Flipout 2018 in Melbourne Dec 1st and 2nd

#7887 70 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Sorry rensh. Bloody auto correct.
Ps you coming to Australia in December?

Quoted from Ballypinball:

Flipout 2018 in Melbourne Dec 1st and 2nd

definitely going to try, would really like to come visit you guys.

Clearly I need to come teach Ryan C. how to backhand the inner loop on Houdini.

#7888 70 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

I AM NO LONGER AN EARLY ACHIEVER.
About 8 months ago (last Fall), I gave DP an “ultimatum” here on Pinside with a deadline of January 2018. I let it ride when January came around and DP led us to believe production was beginning with Xytech. The announcement of the ARA lawsuit in May was the last straw for me, especially when I asked for a refund and was told there was nothing I could do but wait even longer and hope for a good outcome.
A couple of days after my ultimatum post last Fall, a certain “podcaster” decided to chime-in and provide his unsolicited opinions and observations on my post. He stated the following on his pinball podcast (Episode #169):
- “You are not in a position to demand ANYTHING.”
- “When you invest in a company, their issues become your issues.”
- “You invested in a startup.”
- “Their pitfalls become your pitfalls; their headaches are your headaches; their mishaps are your mishaps.”
- “There is nothing you can do.”
- “You can’t go after CoinTaker.”
The irony here is that a few days later, this same podcaster posted a now-deleted rant episode where he threatened to leave the hobby and stop podcasting over similar issues and frustration he was having with his Magic Girl. He got on his high horse and preached to me about what I could not do or demand, yet he did the SAME EXACT THING a couple of days later. Of course, he deleted the rant episode and apologized to CT in a follow-up episode, but not once did he ever acknowledge his hypocrisy or follow-up on the contradictory statements made in Episode #169. I am here to say that this podcaster should steer clear from giving anyone legal advice and stick to ad campaigns with music artists from the 80s.
I do want to address some of his comments:
1) I never invested in a startup; I invested in a product. I coincidentally received another (separate) refund today from a crowdfunding company. In that instance, I paid $299 + $20 shipping for a product that I never received. The company left 10,000+ people out to dry, but I decided to pursue a rightful refund on my own, which resulted in success. It’s foolish advice to tell someone that their SOL if a company fails to deliver a product -- no matter if it’s $1 or $10,000. A company’s “pitfalls,””issues,” or “headaches” are NOT the customer’s problem.
2) I WAS in the position to demand a refund and there WAS something I could do about it (which I successfully did).
3) I could make several other counterpoints, but it’s pointless. After all, this is the same guy who got kicked out of a pinball tournament. That’s like getting expelled from Romper Room or evicted from Sesame Street. He never retracted the statements he made in that episode, which is why I am finally addressing it here. The "tantrum" he threw a few days later for the same exact thing was hypocritical and I wish he would have acknowledged it.
I won’t go into details on how I got a refund (it wasn’t voluntary), but I accomplished it without directly contacting Universal. DP could have saved money had they just refunded my money when I initially asked for it, but they gave me no other option other than to trust them. There’s definitely a reason why that Engineering Sample was “auctioned off” a few weeks ago.
I am crushed because I really wanted this game, but I wasn’t willing to be left out to dry, should that day come. There’s also the statute of limitations, the fact that DP is a company in The Netherlands, and there isn't a clear-cut plan on schedule/ETA of EA games. I am also concerned about future support and operability. I would be willing to consider paying an additional $1500 if/when they get all preorder games to customers. In the meantime, I no longer need to stress over the possibility of losing out on $8500 or waiting another year or so for the game to finally arrive.
In conclusion, there IS a way to obtain a refund and you ARE entitled to seek it. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. I do hope the remaining EAs finally get their game. I do not wish for DP to fail despite some of Jaap’s ballsy statements/guilt trips, along with his lack of knowledge pertaining to international consumer laws.
Best of luck to the remaining EAs.

You could try helping other people.

1819460B-D5D1-442C-8E7E-21865D346FAA (resized).png

#7889 70 days ago

With the price the used games are now bringing you would think that someone would figure out away to get them built.... and what will become of the 40+ TBL that ARA is sitting on??

#7890 70 days ago

Should get a clearer picture after the first court date, if DP can remain solvent that long.

#7893 70 days ago

I get all my insightful investment and how to make friends information from pinball podcasts.

#7895 70 days ago

Damn guys just let it go, life is too short to waste a moment of it on things like this.

#7896 70 days ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Damn guys just let it go, life is too short to waste a moment of it on things like this.

I agree, but since his message to me came out of nowhere, I would love for him to explain his logic to all the "dummies," including myself.

#7897 70 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

I agree, but since his message to me came out of nowhere, I would love for him to explain his logic to all the "dummies," including myself.

Just say something straight to the point that makes real sense and he will put you on ignore and likewise announce it like he was right all along, and then you will never have to deal with him again.
download (resized).jpg

#7898 70 days ago
Quoted from o-din:

Just say something straight to the point that makes real sense and he will put you on ignore and likewise announce it like he was right all along, and then you will never have to deal with him again.

+1 for the Sgt. Rick Hunter meme.

#7899 69 days ago

https://www.gofundme.com/seattle-seven

Well there’s this....

Only a half million euros? Well at least we know roughly how bad the financial picture is.

Does anyone else think this is DP themselves setting this up? So the whole go fund me is basically just a raffle to raise half a million euros. Ok, got it.

-3
#7900 69 days ago

Can garantuee you that this isn’t a setup from DP. They assisted in supplying materials and stuff but the initiative is not theirs. This as stated in their last NSN

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