obviously they didnt get enough in writing as now they too are SOL , space and time wasted as this ARA lawsuit now churns.
obviously they didnt get enough in writing as now they too are SOL , space and time wasted as this ARA lawsuit now churns.
Who really cares if Xytech and DP have a signed agreement?
It's like complaining about the view while your car is tumbling down a cliff.
DP can sign all the agreements they want, if they can't pay the CMs, they can't build machines.
Quoted from sd_tom:obviously they didnt get enough in writing as now they too are SOL , space and time wasted as this ARA lawsuit now churns.
Well it doesn't really matter what they have in writing, now ... if DP are forced into bankruptcy by the proceedings, I doubt they jump ARA as potential creditors ... and I also doubt the value of selling off the rights for TBL given how few would be interested and additional costs re: the Universal license itself. So highly doubtful that ARA will get what they're seeking either.
Quoted from rubberducks:Well it doesn't really matter what they have in writing, now ... if DP are forced into bankruptcy by the proceedings, I doubt they jump ARA as potential creditors ... and I also doubt the value of selling off the rights for TBL given how few would be interested and additional costs re: the Universal license itself. So highly doubtful that ARA will get what they're seeking either.
DP is likely insolvent already. The emails that Rensh shared hinted that was their financial state as far back as 2016.
Quoted from rubberducks:More
Didn't sign anything?
Do you really think Xytech execs would have been stupid enough to fly to Expo in Chicago and expound the virtues of their supposed deal, given what had happened with ARA, without anything in writing?
Let's not stray too far into fantasy land.
DP signed plenty of documents. Yep and every penny was accounted for.
Quoted from rubberducks:More
Didn't sign anything?
Do you really think Xytech execs would have been stupid enough to fly to Expo in Chicago and expound the virtues of their supposed deal, given what had happened with ARA, without anything in writing?
Let's not stray too far into fantasy land.
Bring me back from fantasy land.
Who cares if Xytech flew to Chicago? They were building prototypes, not mass production. Many companies often announce "alliances" (or mergers/acquisitions) and it is not rare for those deals fall through for various, unforeseen reasons (usually money or anti-trust).
If they did have an agreement, production would be running right now. ARA's lawsuit does not affect Xytech, nor does it prevent Xytech from performing their duties UNLESS Dutch Pinball couldnt pay.
Where are all the parts that were supposedly being ordered for Xytech production run? Based on what you're saying, Xytech can also go after DP for breach of contract much like ARA is doing right now. Now we (and DP) are royally f*cked. No?
You claimed they hadn't signed anything, and as if you knew that to be the case.
That seems unlikely, unless you can back it up.
Of course the suit effects Xytech. DP could be forced into bankruptcy (and liquidation) by either a protracted enough case or a decision against them. There's no way they'd proceed under such circumstances, given that it's blatantly obvious they were going to be fronting the money for production initially.
Quoted from rubberducks:More
Didn't sign anything?
Do you really think Xytech execs would have been stupid enough to fly to Expo in Chicago and expound the virtues of their supposed deal, given what had happened with ARA, without anything in writing?
Let's not stray too far into fantasy land.
They were low-level flunkies, probably based close.
Quoted from MrBally:More
They were low-level flunkies, probably based close.
Besides, there were buffoons from Heighway, SkitB and of course Jaap, Barry & Phil. All who helped take money from unsuspecting pinball hobbyists.
Could you imagine if they swindled cash from New Jersey route operators such as Runyan, Alpha-Omega, Silco (Steerwell International Leisure Company) or Betson?
Quoted from MrBally:More
They were low-level flunkies, probably based close.
It was a senior manager. Erwin Streefland. At the time their Director of European Sales, since promoted to overall Director of Sales.
Also, he's based in Venray (NL). Not Illinois.
DP may have screwed up the China / Xytech connection ultimately - and a couple of different people have suggested privately that they were making a pig's ear of things in China - but making up stuff about nothing being signed, the ARA lawsuit not effecting Xytech, or 'flunkies' vouching for them at Expo helps nobody.
erwin (resized).PNGQuoted from rubberducks:making up stuff about nothing being signed, the ARA lawsuit not effecting Xytech, or 'flunkies' vouching for them at Expo helps nobody.
See below.
Quoted from rubberducks:You claimed they hadn't signed anything, and as if you knew that to be the case.
That seems unlikely, unless you can back it up.
Quoted from rubberducks:Of course the suit effects Xytech.
A conflict with another CM doesn't prevent you from running production simultaneously elsewhere. Companies often use multiple suppliers for just a single multi-million dollar SKU to mitigate supply chain risk.
Why hasn't production started at Xytech? Where are the Xytech parts that were supposedly being ordered months ago?
Why weren't refunds given last year before and during the work done with Xytech?
Why? Because they're out of money.
This isn't rocket science man.
Checking back in and nothing has changed.
It's just a matter of time now. Barry and Jaap are just pissing in the wind and its blowing right back at em.
They just lasted a bit longer than Heighway, SkitB and Jpop. Congratulations.
Man, like others, I really hope someone can pick up the ball and make it to the goal...
I want this pin!
Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.
Quoted from titanpenguin:Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.
If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. Rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.
Round up a few of the DP believers. EternalLife should be a good prospect. There are others. rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.
Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com
Quoted from RTR:If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.
Round up a few of the DP believers. eternallife should be a good prospect. There are others. rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.
Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com
Please don’t anyone throw away more money by giving it to those clowns. If you like gambling, buy a lotto ticket. Your expected payout will be larger with a lotto ticket. Stated differently, your odds are better of winning with the lotto ticket than with investing more with dp.
Quoted from RTR:More
If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.
Round up a few of the DP believers. eternallife should be a good prospect. There are others. rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.
Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com
I nominate this for "Post of the Year." Love it.
Quoted from RTR:More
If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. @rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.
Round up a few of the DP believers. @eternallife should be a good prospect. There are others. @rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.
Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com
Thank you. I will take your advice into consideration since you seem to have all the inside info. I, for one, would not cheer on the failure of a company I got a refund from while simultaneously saying the rest of the people are hosed. News flash, all those people that got out early on the Bernie madoff scam all had to pay all the money back.
And just pointing out the sarcasm, I don’t believe that collecting funds from those out early is legal. I am simply pointing out that at the end of the day, we know nothing for sure.
Quoted from titanpenguin:Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.
Somewhere in between Phil, the phantom board issue, and lack of transparency?
It's funny how you and the other Believers side with DP and their illegal no-refund policy and ambiguous communication of said story.
Based on some of the counterpoints made here, I think it is safe to say that a handful of you have probably wired money via Western Union to that stranded Nigerian prince who keeps spamming your inbox.
Quoted from highdef:More
Somewhere in between Phil, the phantom board issue, and lack of transparency?
It's funny how you and the other Believers side with DP and their illegal no-refund policy and ambiguous communication of said story.
Based on some of the counterpoints made here, I think it is safe to say that a handful of you have probably wired money via Western Union to that stranded Nigerian prince who keeps spamming your inbox.
So, do you have the definitive contract? Because I don’t. Also, that Nigerian prince is filtered out via my spam filter. Thank god for that. I’d have no money other wise.
Quoted from titanpenguin:More
So, do you have the definitive contract? Because I don’t. Also, that Nigerian prince is filtered out via my spam filter. Thank god for that. I’d have no money other wise.
I don't need to know the details of the contract to conclude that DP was/is out of money. It is pretty obvious.
Quoted from highdef:I don't need to know the details of the contract to conclude that DP was/is out of money. It is pretty obvious.
So, they received all the preorder money then?
Quoted from titanpenguin:So, they received all the preorder money then?
I know that they received MY money, along with a few others here.
I thought I was buying a product, not investing in a company.
Quoted from highdef:I know that they received MY money, along with a few others here.
I thought I was buying a product, not investing in a company.
Then you thought wrong ! You prepaied a product ... same as people did with WOZ, SAlien and many other.
I pre-payed in WOZ and waited around 3 years for my pin. I was lucky and got it final.
Others had luck with the BBB from gene ... but where is sun there is also darkness and people lost money on Alien.
On TBL the story did not end yet ... it might possible that you get your machine. Therefor you should be a little more optimism.
If you followed the BoP 2.0 project you should have knowen what to expect ! So far DP is not out of business !!
After BoP 2.0 and thinking about the TBL I decided for me to wait until the pins are physical available. Some people had luck and got theit TBL ... so wait and pray ... I know, the situation is a farce but I see, right now, not that your money is lost !
Quoted from TomDK:Then you thought wrong ! You prepaied a product ... same as people did with WOZ, SAlien and many other.
I pre-payed in WOZ and waited around 3 years for my pin. I was lucky and got it final.
Others had luck with the BBB from gene ... but where is sun there is also darkness and people lost money on Alien.
On TBL the story did not end yet ... it might possible that you get your machine. Therefor you should be a little more optimism.
If you followed the BoP 2.0 project you should have knowen what to expect ! So far DP is not out of business !!
After BoP 2.0 and thinking about the TBL I decided for me to wait until the pins are physical available. Some people had luck and got theit TBL ... so wait and pray ... I know, the situation is a farce but I see, right now, not that your money is lost !
You're basically telling me to sing some Journey.
R-419741-1454675353-7372.jpeg (resized).jpg
.. and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Pessimism. Where has that gotten anyone , ever?
Quoted from highdef:More
You're basically telling me to sing some Journey.
Quoted from steigerpijp:.. and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Pessimism. Where has that gotten anyone , ever?
Here is some optimism - I would be super duper glad to be wrong and admit it publicly, hence my avatar.
Realism is where I am at right now. I form my opinion on the information that is available. If DP has some information available that is good or exculpatory, I suggest they share it. Rensh 's email only showed financial troubles and unresolved conflict with their CM.
Their decision to move to a new CM and extend their (our) cash burn rate - while not resolving an in-force contract with ARA showed terrible judgement. Inexcusable really. And that poor judgement is taking a double bite out of their ass right now.
DP has been pissing on EAs for 3 years and telling us it's raining.
Quoted from titanpenguin:More
Thank you. I will take your advice into consideration since you seem to have all the inside info. I, for one, would not cheer on the failure of a company I got a refund from while simultaneously saying the rest of the people are hosed. News flash, all those people that got out early on the Bernie madoff scam all had to pay all the money back.
Quoted from titanpenguin:So, they received all the preorder money then?
Dude, I am not sure you have really been following this. You comment like a Donnie Come Lately.
I'm not cheering the failure of this company, I'm hating it. It didn't have to go this way. There were times when Jaap and Barry could have made better decisions and chose instead to benefit themselves and then doomed what was otherwise a very viable project.
Lastly, you may have me confused with someone else. I haven't been refunded. I am out $8500 or a TBL. What are you out? Why are you here?
Quoted from titanpenguin:Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.
ARA isn't anyones supplier though. Anyone with money in this shouldn't give two hoots about ARA, thats DP's freaking problem!
Doubt there'll be much of note until the preliminary court hearing. Hopefully one of the Dutch members will be able to attend.
I wouldn't be much use, as whilst I can read Dutch pretty well, my listening is terrible.
Quoted from ToucanF16:This thread is getting quiet... Kinda sad...
It's been quiet and sad for quite some time, but "pray" and/or "keep your fingers crossed" for hope as others here suggested to me.
DP response (resized).jpgQuoted from highdef:It's been quiet and sad for quite some time, but "pray" and/or "keep your fingers crossed" for hope as others here suggested to me.
If they had only dropped their egos and taken the 51/49 deal, games would have shipped and this mess would be over. Yes, it wouldn’t be their “dream company”....but when you have other people’s money on the line, their dreams come first....a company cannot exist without its customers.
Quoted from Rarehero:If they had only dropped their egos and taken the 51/49 deal, games would have shipped and this mess would be over. Yes, it wouldn’t be their “dream company”....but when you have other people’s money on the line, their dreams come first....a company cannot exist without its customers.
Actually, I shouldn't post that because of the cussing. It was the scene from Pulp Fiction when Marsellas tells Butch about pride might mess with you, but F pride.
Quoted from LITZ:I paid $8500 and received not one but two Dutch Pinball T shirts in size XL! Yabba Dabba Doo!
I got one - thank you Phil!
I like it, but damn - most expensive apparel I own at this point by far!
Quoted from Rarehero:If they had only dropped their egos and taken the 51/49 deal, games would have shipped and this mess would be over. Yes, it wouldn’t be their “dream company”....but when you have other people’s money on the line, their dreams come first....a company cannot exist without its customers.
If only someone would have suggested they do this or voted on it or something...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dp-values-your-advice-on-tbl-vote-here
There is no reason for not refunding your money, contact Universal they are working on getting people refunds
Quoted from Ballypinball:There is no reason for not refunding your money, contact Universal they are working on getting people refunds
Source? Proof?
Several people who contacted Universal received refunds from DP already
Universal are not Happy with this situation and did not approve the pre order model to begin with
@ballypinball, are you talking about Rarehero getting a refund like a year ago by threatening to contact Universal (in which case that has little bearing on today’s situation and seems an awful lot like you’re just stirring up shit)? Or do you have specific knowledge of people getting actual refunds since DP’s “whoops, the party’s over” email last month? If so that’d be huge, even if it doesn’t make much sense since it’s not clear where the money for refunds would be coming from.
No I mean there has been more current refunds
If ARA hasn't been paid I am sure DP has money to refund.
Quoted from Ballypinball:No I mean there has been more current refunds
If ARA hasn't been paid I am sure DP has money to refund.
DP did not have the money to pay ARA. They have been broke for years.
Quoted from Ballypinball:No I mean there has been more current refunds
If ARA hasn't been paid I am sure DP has money to refund.
Pls state proof of this. According to DP this is pure nonsense. No recent refunds are given and Universal didn’t care about the pre order model. So pls proof DP is lying and shut me up or stop telling this unsupported nonsense and make your apologies to the readers for wasting their time.
Quoted from Rensh:Pls state proof of this. According to DP this is pure nonsense. No recent refunds are given and Universal didn’t care about the pre order model. So pls proof DP is lying and shut me up or stop telling this unsupported nonsense and make your apologies to the readers for wasting their time.
To be honest, DP owes way more apologies lol.
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