The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)

(Topic ID: 115360)

The Big Lebowski Preorder Club (Members Only)


By Nilroc

3 years ago



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24 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 8293 posts in this topic. You are on page 155 of 166.
#7701 71 days ago

obviously they didnt get enough in writing as now they too are SOL , space and time wasted as this ARA lawsuit now churns.

#7702 71 days ago

Who really cares if Xytech and DP have a signed agreement?

It's like complaining about the view while your car is tumbling down a cliff.

DP can sign all the agreements they want, if they can't pay the CMs, they can't build machines.

#7703 71 days ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

obviously they didnt get enough in writing as now they too are SOL , space and time wasted as this ARA lawsuit now churns.

Well it doesn't really matter what they have in writing, now ... if DP are forced into bankruptcy by the proceedings, I doubt they jump ARA as potential creditors ... and I also doubt the value of selling off the rights for TBL given how few would be interested and additional costs re: the Universal license itself. So highly doubtful that ARA will get what they're seeking either.

#7704 71 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Well it doesn't really matter what they have in writing, now ... if DP are forced into bankruptcy by the proceedings, I doubt they jump ARA as potential creditors ... and I also doubt the value of selling off the rights for TBL given how few would be interested and additional costs re: the Universal license itself. So highly doubtful that ARA will get what they're seeking either.

DP is likely insolvent already. The emails that rensh shared hinted that was their financial state as far back as 2016.

#7705 71 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

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Didn't sign anything?
Do you really think Xytech execs would have been stupid enough to fly to Expo in Chicago and expound the virtues of their supposed deal, given what had happened with ARA, without anything in writing?
Let's not stray too far into fantasy land.

DP signed plenty of documents. Yep and every penny was accounted for.

#7706 71 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

More
Didn't sign anything?
Do you really think Xytech execs would have been stupid enough to fly to Expo in Chicago and expound the virtues of their supposed deal, given what had happened with ARA, without anything in writing?
Let's not stray too far into fantasy land.

Bring me back from fantasy land.
Who cares if Xytech flew to Chicago? They were building prototypes, not mass production. Many companies often announce "alliances" (or mergers/acquisitions) and it is not rare for those deals fall through for various, unforeseen reasons (usually money or anti-trust).

If they did have an agreement, production would be running right now. ARA's lawsuit does not affect Xytech, nor does it prevent Xytech from performing their duties UNLESS Dutch Pinball couldnt pay.
Where are all the parts that were supposedly being ordered for Xytech production run? Based on what you're saying, Xytech can also go after DP for breach of contract much like ARA is doing right now. Now we (and DP) are royally f*cked. No?

#7707 71 days ago

You claimed they hadn't signed anything, and as if you knew that to be the case.

That seems unlikely, unless you can back it up.

Of course the suit effects Xytech. DP could be forced into bankruptcy (and liquidation) by either a protracted enough case or a decision against them. There's no way they'd proceed under such circumstances, given that it's blatantly obvious they were going to be fronting the money for production initially.

#7708 71 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

More
Didn't sign anything?
Do you really think Xytech execs would have been stupid enough to fly to Expo in Chicago and expound the virtues of their supposed deal, given what had happened with ARA, without anything in writing?
Let's not stray too far into fantasy land.

They were low-level flunkies, probably based close.

#7709 71 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

More
They were low-level flunkies, probably based close.

Besides, there were buffoons from Heighway, SkitB and of course Jaap, Barry & Phil. All who helped take money from unsuspecting pinball hobbyists.

Could you imagine if they swindled cash from New Jersey route operators such as Runyan, Alpha-Omega, Silco (Steerwell International Leisure Company) or Betson?

#7710 71 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

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They were low-level flunkies, probably based close.

It was a senior manager. Erwin Streefland. At the time their Director of European Sales, since promoted to overall Director of Sales.

Also, he's based in Venray (NL). Not Illinois.

DP may have screwed up the China / Xytech connection ultimately - and a couple of different people have suggested privately that they were making a pig's ear of things in China - but making up stuff about nothing being signed, the ARA lawsuit not effecting Xytech, or 'flunkies' vouching for them at Expo helps nobody.

erwin (resized).PNG
#7711 71 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

making up stuff about nothing being signed, the ARA lawsuit not effecting Xytech, or 'flunkies' vouching for them at Expo helps nobody.

See below.

#7712 71 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

You claimed they hadn't signed anything, and as if you knew that to be the case.
That seems unlikely, unless you can back it up.

Quoted from rubberducks:

Of course the suit effects Xytech.

A conflict with another CM doesn't prevent you from running production simultaneously elsewhere. Companies often use multiple suppliers for just a single multi-million dollar SKU to mitigate supply chain risk.

Why hasn't production started at Xytech? Where are the Xytech parts that were supposedly being ordered months ago?
Why weren't refunds given last year before and during the work done with Xytech?

Why? Because they're out of money.
This isn't rocket science man.

10
#7713 70 days ago

Checking back in and nothing has changed.

It's just a matter of time now. Barry and Jaap are just pissing in the wind and its blowing right back at em.

They just lasted a bit longer than Heighway, SkitB and Jpop. Congratulations.

#7714 70 days ago

Man, like others, I really hope someone can pick up the ball and make it to the goal...
I want this pin!

#7715 70 days ago

Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.

15
#7716 70 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.

If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.

Round up a few of the DP believers. eternallife should be a good prospect. There are others. rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.

Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com

#7717 70 days ago
Quoted from RTR:

If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.
Round up a few of the DP believers. eternallife should be a good prospect. There are others. rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.
Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com

Please don’t anyone throw away more money by giving it to those clowns. If you like gambling, buy a lotto ticket. Your expected payout will be larger with a lotto ticket. Stated differently, your odds are better of winning with the lotto ticket than with investing more with dp.

#7718 70 days ago
Quoted from RTR:

More
If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.
Round up a few of the DP believers. eternallife should be a good prospect. There are others. rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.
Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com

I nominate this for "Post of the Year." Love it.

-1
#7719 70 days ago
Quoted from RTR:

More
If you are willing to bet on DP, there are certainly ways you can do so. @rensh has a post in this thread that suggests financial support for their defense would be a worthy expenditure of euros and dollars. I am all for people with strong convictions following through on them.
Round up a few of the DP believers. @eternallife should be a good prospect. There are others. @rubberducks seems a likely contributor. You guys put together some cash and give it to Jaap and Barry. I am sure they would put it to wise use.
Here is a site to help you get started and everyone will be able to see how much you really believe in DP's cause: https://www.gofundme.com

Thank you. I will take your advice into consideration since you seem to have all the inside info. I, for one, would not cheer on the failure of a company I got a refund from while simultaneously saying the rest of the people are hosed. News flash, all those people that got out early on the Bernie madoff scam all had to pay all the money back.

#7720 70 days ago

And just pointing out the sarcasm, I don’t believe that collecting funds from those out early is legal. I am simply pointing out that at the end of the day, we know nothing for sure.

#7721 70 days ago

Just send me the parts - I’ll be happy to assemble on my own!!!

#7722 70 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.

Somewhere in between Phil, the phantom board issue, and lack of transparency?
It's funny how you and the other Believers side with DP and their illegal no-refund policy and ambiguous communication of said story.

Based on some of the counterpoints made here, I think it is safe to say that a handful of you have probably wired money via Western Union to that stranded Nigerian prince who keeps spamming your inbox.

#7723 70 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

More
Somewhere in between Phil, the phantom board issue, and lack of transparency?
It's funny how you and the other Believers side with DP and their illegal no-refund policy and ambiguous communication of said story.
Based on some of the counterpoints made here, I think it is safe to say that a handful of you have probably wired money via Western Union to that stranded Nigerian prince who keeps spamming your inbox.

So, do you have the definitive contract? Because I don’t. Also, that Nigerian prince is filtered out via my spam filter. Thank god for that. I’d have no money other wise.

#7724 70 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

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So, do you have the definitive contract? Because I don’t. Also, that Nigerian prince is filtered out via my spam filter. Thank god for that. I’d have no money other wise.

I don't need to know the details of the contract to conclude that DP was/is out of money. It is pretty obvious.

#7725 70 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

I don't need to know the details of the contract to conclude that DP was/is out of money. It is pretty obvious.

So, they received all the preorder money then?

#7726 70 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

So, they received all the preorder money then?

I know that they received MY money, along with a few others here.

I thought I was buying a product, not investing in a company.

-3
#7727 70 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

I know that they received MY money, along with a few others here.
I thought I was buying a product, not investing in a company.

Then you thought wrong ! You prepaied a product ... same as people did with WOZ, SAlien and many other.
I pre-payed in WOZ and waited around 3 years for my pin. I was lucky and got it final.
Others had luck with the BBB from gene ... but where is sun there is also darkness and people lost money on Alien.
On TBL the story did not end yet ... it might possible that you get your machine. Therefor you should be a little more optimism.
If you followed the BoP 2.0 project you should have knowen what to expect ! So far DP is not out of business !!

After BoP 2.0 and thinking about the TBL I decided for me to wait until the pins are physical available. Some people had luck and got theit TBL ... so wait and pray ... I know, the situation is a farce but I see, right now, not that your money is lost !

#7728 70 days ago
Quoted from TomDK:

Then you thought wrong ! You prepaied a product ... same as people did with WOZ, SAlien and many other.
I pre-payed in WOZ and waited around 3 years for my pin. I was lucky and got it final.
Others had luck with the BBB from gene ... but where is sun there is also darkness and people lost money on Alien.
On TBL the story did not end yet ... it might possible that you get your machine. Therefor you should be a little more optimism.
If you followed the BoP 2.0 project you should have knowen what to expect ! So far DP is not out of business !!
After BoP 2.0 and thinking about the TBL I decided for me to wait until the pins are physical available. Some people had luck and got theit TBL ... so wait and pray ... I know, the situation is a farce but I see, right now, not that your money is lost !

You're basically telling me to sing some Journey.
R-419741-1454675353-7372.jpeg (resized).jpg

-1
#7729 70 days ago

.. and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Pessimism. Where has that gotten anyone , ever?

Quoted from highdef:

More
You're basically telling me to sing some Journey.

17
#7730 70 days ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

.. and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Pessimism. Where has that gotten anyone , ever?

Here is some optimism - I would be super duper glad to be wrong and admit it publicly, hence my avatar.

Realism is where I am at right now. I form my opinion on the information that is available. If DP has some information available that is good or exculpatory, I suggest they share it. rensh 's email only showed financial troubles and unresolved conflict with their CM.

Their decision to move to a new CM and extend their (our) cash burn rate - while not resolving an in-force contract with ARA showed terrible judgement. Inexcusable really. And that poor judgement is taking a double bite out of their ass right now.

DP has been pissing on EAs for 3 years and telling us it's raining.

#7731 70 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

More
Thank you. I will take your advice into consideration since you seem to have all the inside info. I, for one, would not cheer on the failure of a company I got a refund from while simultaneously saying the rest of the people are hosed. News flash, all those people that got out early on the Bernie madoff scam all had to pay all the money back.

Quoted from titanpenguin:

So, they received all the preorder money then?

Dude, I am not sure you have really been following this. You comment like a Donnie Come Lately.

I'm not cheering the failure of this company, I'm hating it. It didn't have to go this way. There were times when Jaap and Barry could have made better decisions and chose instead to benefit themselves and then doomed what was otherwise a very viable project.

Lastly, you may have me confused with someone else. I haven't been refunded. I am out $8500 or a TBL. What are you out? Why are you here?

10
#7732 68 days ago
Quoted from titanpenguin:

Meh, the circular arguments in this thread are getting old. We still don’t know what was actually agreeded upon, yet we have people ready to lynch DP and exonerate ARA. I’m still a firm believer that the truth is somewhere in between. With a second contract manufacturer willing to sign on, id be willing to bet that the DP side of the story has more truth to it.

ARA isn't anyones supplier though. Anyone with money in this shouldn't give two hoots about ARA, thats DP's freaking problem!

#7733 65 days ago

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#7734 64 days ago

This thread is getting quiet... Kinda sad...

#7735 64 days ago

Doubt there'll be much of note until the preliminary court hearing. Hopefully one of the Dutch members will be able to attend.

I wouldn't be much use, as whilst I can read Dutch pretty well, my listening is terrible.

#7736 64 days ago
Quoted from Toucanf16:

This thread is getting quiet... Kinda sad...

It's been quiet and sad for quite some time, but "pray" and/or "keep your fingers crossed" for hope as others here suggested to me.

DP response (resized).jpg
#7737 64 days ago
Quoted from highdef:

It's been quiet and sad for quite some time, but "pray" and/or "keep your fingers crossed" for hope as others here suggested to me.

If they had only dropped their egos and taken the 51/49 deal, games would have shipped and this mess would be over. Yes, it wouldn’t be their “dream company”....but when you have other people’s money on the line, their dreams come first....a company cannot exist without its customers.

#7738 64 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

If they had only dropped their egos and taken the 51/49 deal, games would have shipped and this mess would be over. Yes, it wouldn’t be their “dream company”....but when you have other people’s money on the line, their dreams come first....a company cannot exist without its customers.

Actually, I shouldn't post that because of the cussing. It was the scene from Pulp Fiction when Marsellas tells Butch about pride might mess with you, but F pride.

#7739 63 days ago

I paid $8500 and received not one but two Dutch Pinball T shirts in size XL! Yabba Dabba Doo!

#7740 63 days ago
Quoted from LITZ:

I paid $8500 and received not one but two Dutch Pinball T shirts in size XL! Yabba Dabba Doo!

I got one - thank you Phil!

I like it, but damn - most expensive apparel I own at this point by far!

#7741 63 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

If they had only dropped their egos and taken the 51/49 deal, games would have shipped and this mess would be over. Yes, it wouldn’t be their “dream company”....but when you have other people’s money on the line, their dreams come first....a company cannot exist without its customers.

If only someone would have suggested they do this or voted on it or something...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dp-values-your-advice-on-tbl-vote-here

#7742 63 days ago

There is no reason for not refunding your money, contact Universal they are working on getting people refunds

#7743 63 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

There is no reason for not refunding your money, contact Universal they are working on getting people refunds

Source? Proof?

#7744 63 days ago

Several people who contacted Universal received refunds from DP already

Universal are not Happy with this situation and did not approve the pre order model to begin with

#7745 63 days ago

ballypinball, are you talking about rarehero getting a refund like a year ago by threatening to contact Universal (in which case that has little bearing on today’s situation and seems an awful lot like you’re just stirring up shit)? Or do you have specific knowledge of people getting actual refunds since DP’s “whoops, the party’s over” email last month? If so that’d be huge, even if it doesn’t make much sense since it’s not clear where the money for refunds would be coming from.

#7746 63 days ago

No I mean there has been more current refunds

If ARA hasn't been paid I am sure DP has money to refund.

#7747 63 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

No I mean there has been more current refunds
If ARA hasn't been paid I am sure DP has money to refund.

DP did not have the money to pay ARA. They have been broke for years.

17
#7748 63 days ago

Refund checks being written

"one dollar and nine cents"

img_571c14e6e53e1[1] (resized).png
#7749 63 days ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

No I mean there has been more current refunds
If ARA hasn't been paid I am sure DP has money to refund.

Pls state proof of this. According to DP this is pure nonsense. No recent refunds are given and Universal didn’t care about the pre order model. So pls proof DP is lying and shut me up or stop telling this unsupported nonsense and make your apologies to the readers for wasting their time.

#7750 63 days ago
Quoted from Rensh:

Pls state proof of this. According to DP this is pure nonsense. No recent refunds are given and Universal didn’t care about the pre order model. So pls proof DP is lying and shut me up or stop telling this unsupported nonsense and make your apologies to the readers for wasting their time.

To be honest, DP owes way more apologies lol.

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