Totally agree with this. I do not not NOT think at all that this pin is vapor. It is legitimate. It still commands long lines at expo. Sound is fine as is and likely user modifiable unofficially and in unsupported fashion.

If Jaap didn't like the initial production run, and delayed so they could up the quality, his priorities are straight. Better slow at this point, given this is a legitimate business, and produced well than rushed and poor quality.

Rarehero are you at expo? Just curios if you talked to Jaap in person this year and played the Proto's they brought? Also when he said the first production model was shit did he elaborate at all, what was the problem?

I for one will be surprised if this gets produced. I'm buying if it does. No more speculation on these preorders ever again!

Taking preorders advertising original music and then pulling the rug out on that is completely lame and indefensible. People trying to defend this as OK - we get it by now. This has happened over and over to us pinheads and some have become numb to being treated so poorly.

For me the music is not the problem in this situation , it's the deception being used to increase sales that I find troubling.

I will not be surprised... I'd be really surprised after all this trouble, money invested, years of working and prototyping with several people and having contacts and tests with a factory that can produce for them, they'd not get to the step of producing the games. I would have been surprised if there hadn't been any disappointments and delays in the process though (for DP themselves and/or for the customers).

Yeah I'm at expo. Haven't talked to Jaap yet but just repeating what he talked about at the seminar. He literally said "It was shit" lol.

I played the protos. They're the same ones as last year but seem to have the new rug mech & some art decals so it reflects the approved art. Also newer code, but still very beta. The game "structure" is there but the modes themselves aren't present/playable. So when you start a rug mode it just plays a scene right now. I'm guessing that's due to clips still going thru the approval process.

Anyway I still think the game rules.

Remember those protos have been here stateside . Saves money and they are focused back home . I think the cointaker partnership will be a huge difference .
Chris was working like a maniac on those games.

I don't want to bring up bad karma but Chris was in deep with Jpop.

For his sake, I hope it works out.

I agree with Rommy, if it ever comes out, I'm in. But it's one thing to trot around prototypes that seem to have gone backwards in a year to producing hundreds of pinball machines.

They can't even get the second round of Bop 2.0 out and Pinballlife is doing the assembly.

Phil said Barry was pulling funds from TBL to get Bop done and pay himself.

Wasted time and monthly overhead are killers.

Hot off the press NSNL
Check your email!
image.pngimage.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

Love the Before and After pics. Some clean up was certainly done.

Quality, detail, listening to their customers..DP just rolled into the semis..

cool before/after pix !!

Awesome!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hsJqC5osYkE

Making a pinball machine is hard, any questions now?

Talking about improvements. Nice work!

And from the seminar at expo..

So is risking $8,500 to support a game and then hearing about major changes secondhand.

Less than ideal communications aside, THANK YOU Dutch Pinball for moving forward with the difficult process of making what will no doubt still be a great game!

Presumably if Pinballlife are doing assembly of BOP 2.0, they will be done soon and that is my understanding also

That was a nice news-letter. I am glad that there still might be an option for the apron, and if it will be easy to exchange the music later on, then nothing is fu..ed here.

Only thing I am not so keen on is the female voice actor. Seems out of place in this game, but things like that can easily be changed before
the game is done so no reason to worry about stuff like that yet.

Everything else looks to be hunky dory.

It is already mentioned in the NSN that female voice will change

Yep good NSN.

Since you ask, I've still got a question ... how the hell was DP confused about the music licensing this late in the game? Or if DP knew about it before this weekend, how can they justify resting on their previous incorrect statements about the music licensing (including that at-best misleading picture of Rodger Sharpe) until now? Given their past "troubles" with licensing, why weren't they on top of this?

The game looks sweet, the latest updates are cool, and I can't wait to play one. And you're right, making pinball is hard. Pinball licensing is evidently hard too. But if you're doing it right, you shouldn't repeatedly leave your customers wondering whether you're being honest with them.

Nothings f****d here.

The arrogance with which the game was launched last year certainly set DP up for a higher level of scrutiny. And the lack of transparency about the changes didn't go down well. But fundamentally the game hasn't really changed.

TBL is moving forward but I am tired of being fukd around. This is all good stuff but should have been done or at least discussed before missing pushed dates on when they would be in our home.

They could have easily been negotiating for the rights that they thought they had. That stuff takes time.

Can we have the text of the NSNL, for those following along at home? Thanks.

We planned to send this NSN before Expo, but, due to some unforeseen circumstances, we didn't make it and of course we couldn't reschedule the seminar at Expo. We're very sorry some of the news in the presentation was told first at Expo instead of a NSN like we always do.

This NSN is the update about Expo 2015. The lines to play TBL were not as long as last year but the three proto's we had in the booth of Cointaker were played constantly. The new software was received very well and we got some good feed back about the call outs.

We have planned to show the first (pre)production machines at the Dutch Pinball Open on November 7th and 8th. After this we are also planning to show the new games in the US as soon as possible!

Our seminar at Expo
Some of you may have heard or read about our seminar at Expo 2015.

During the seminar we had good and bad news. One of the 'bad news' was about the music in The Big Lebowksi™ Pinball. Buma Stemra assured we had the license but months later it turned out we only had the right on the music and not of the master. When we went after the master Roger Sharpe told us that we only were allowed to use the music uncut. So we have to show the movieclip for 3-4 minutes. In pinball this is impossible so we decided to give up the original music. Click here to listen to Jaap explaining this at the seminar. (Sorry for the bad audio quality, this was filmed with a phone in the audience. Pinballnews.com will probably have a better version of the total seminar soon).

Before & After
One of the 'good news' were the pictures of the differences between the prototype and the production machine. You probably would like to see these pics so here we go:

Only a very small bundle of cables between cabinet and backbox in production model.

Much more cleaner backbox setup.

The new speaker panel with the new display. We chose a new display which has a better aspect ratio and the new display is also a complete integrated display panel which looks much cleaner than the separate circuit boards on top of the prototype display.

We really love the new bottom of the playfield. It's so clean!

A detail of the bottom of the playfield.. Can you tell the difference

Some details on the playfield that have changed since the prototype.

And yes... The apron...
One of the things we changed on the production model was the apron... After getting a lot of reactions about the lack of having a place to put score cards on the game we thought it would be better to change the apron back to a 'standard apron'. Well, not completely standard, because the logo would still be on it and it would still have the Achievers Edition plaque...

Since we had a couple of emails regarding this change we will re-discuss this and probably go for a 'keep both worlds happy' solution. When we finalized this we will let you know.

Gameplay videos
Another thing we showed at the seminar were new game play videos. These videos show some features of the software and are completely approved by Universal. They also show clips including all the main characters of the movie including Jeff Bridges, Julianne Moore and John Goodman.

Click here to watch the videos: Character modes, Let's go bowling, Multiball and Rug Modes.

One of the changes we already made is the female voice. This was the first recording that was made and we are not completely satisfied with the result - this will be changed in the future. However, we love the - very deep & dark - male voice!

Shipping date
One of the questions during the Q&A at the Expo presentation was when the first games will ship. We answered we didn't know yet.

And we really don't know. We would like to ship them yesterday! We are close to shipping the first game but we need to revise the main circuit board and this takes time. Please hang in there Dudes...

We'll send out more updates as soon as we have more 'new shit' to show you guys!

Until then, stay tuned.

And for those plating at home, Buma Stemra is like the Dutch RIAA it seems.

Good update!!
"Quote"
We planned to send this NSN before Expo, but, due to some unforeseen circumstances, we didn't make it and of course we couldn't reschedule the seminar at Expo. We're very sorry some of the news in the presentation was told first at Expo instead of a NSN like we always do.
This NSN is the update about Expo 2015. The lines to play TBL were not as long as last year but the three proto's we had in the booth of Cointaker were played constantly. The new software was received very well and we got some good feed back about the call outs.
We have planned to show the first (pre)production machines at the Dutch Pinball Open on November 7th and 8th. After this we are also planning to show the new games in the US as soon as possible!
Our seminar at Expo
Some of you may have heard or read about our seminar at Expo 2015.
During the seminar we had good and bad news. One of the 'bad news' was about the music in The Big Lebowksi™ Pinball. Buma Stemra assured we had the license but months later it turned out we only had the right on the music and not of the master. When we went after the master Roger Sharpe told us that we only were allowed to use the music uncut. So we have to show the movieclip for 3-4 minutes. In pinball this is impossible so we decided to give up the original music. Click here to listen to Jaap explaining this at the seminar. (Sorry for the bad audio quality, this was filmed with a phone in the audience. Pinballnews.com will probably have a better version of the total seminar soon).
Before & After
One of the 'good news' were the pictures of the differences between the prototype and the production machine. You probably would like to see these pics so here we go:
Only a very small bundle of cables between cabinet and backbox in production model.
Much more cleaner backbox setup.
The new speaker panel with the new display. We chose a new display which has a better aspect ratio and the new display is also a complete integrated display panel which looks much cleaner than the separate circuit boards on top of the prototype display.
We really love the new bottom of the playfield. It's so clean!
A detail of the bottom of the playfield.. Can you tell the difference
Some details on the playfield that have changed since the prototype.
And yes... The apron...
One of the things we changed on the production model was the apron... After getting a lot of reactions about the lack of having a place to put score cards on the game we thought it would be better to change the apron back to a 'standard apron'. Well, not completely standard, because the logo would still be on it and it would still have the Achievers Edition plaque...
Since we had a couple of emails regarding this change we will re-discuss this and probably go for a 'keep both worlds happy' solution. When we finalized this we will let you know.
Gameplay videos
Another thing we showed at the seminar were new game play videos. These videos show some features of the software and are completely approved by Universal. They also show clips including all the main characters of the movie including Jeff Bridges, Julianne Moore and John Goodman.
Click here to watch the videos: Character modes, Let's go bowling, Multiball and Rug Modes.
One of the changes we already made is the female voice. This was the first recording that was made and we are not completely satisfied with the result - this will be changed in the future. However, we love the - very deep & dark - male voice!
Shipping date
One of the questions during the Q&A at the Expo presentation was when the first games will ship. We answered we didn't know yet.
And we really don't know. We would like to ship them yesterday! We are close to shipping the first game but we need to revise the main circuit board and this takes time. Please hang in there Dudes...
We'll send out more updates as soon as we have more 'new shit' to show you guys!
Until then, stay tuned.

Feel the same here. I'd love to stay positive, but there have been a number of missteps from DP along the way, and the excuses don't always ring true in my opinion. Dropping a bomb like the song removal after already missing 2 promised shipping dates does not instill me with confidence. If the "master" Roger Sharpe set them straight on the music wouldn't he have done that over 9 months ago? Why are we just hearing that now? Please explain the picture with music approved stamped on his forehead. Modding the clips afterwards might be a solution, but my $8500 went to a licensed game with an impressive song list.

How far along is the code? Is it really just a circuit board redesign we're waiting on? If so, why was the code so incomplete at expo? Are the protos out of date, or is there some other reason? I certainly don't want to have another promised shipping date missed, but not providing at least a rough estimate sounds like a stall tactic to me. "We can't give a date but we're close" is a nonsense statement that puts no pressure on them to deliver. The dates don't seem to matter anyway, but it at least puts some pressure on them. (PRE)Production games will be at DPO. Guess that is something to look forward to, but after the expo flop I have limited expectations.

It was nice to have a NSNL with some real information, but I'm a little burnt out on the process. Maybe I'm being very Undude not rolling along with this, but it feels like we never get the full story. The game is already late, and their expo was a debacle. It was supposed to be a victory lap not a firey crash.
I want to believe, but can't shake the nagging doubt.

That's what we mean between 'prototype' vs 'a product that can go through production'

Clearly parts of that were just 'make it work' and not intended as final product.. while other changes seem to be about manufacturing (large PCB vs many many light boards, etc). I think its great DP is showing these photos to qualify their statements and people can see how much engineering has been done and people can see just how far a pretty prototype may be from 'production ready'

Dutch, Dutch, Dutch Oi, Oi, Oi !!! Now that is how you give an update, wow.

At the end of the day, you have to feel comfortable with YOUR money/investment.

I encourage you to wait it out, at least for another 2 months. You can always get your money back before it ships. If you're having doubts, do what it takes to make you sleep comfortably at night. It's only a game.

Can I? It was my understanding the full refund time period has passed. Of course a lot has changed so I don't see why that shouldn't as well. I've asked DP about refund options and am awaiting a response which should come soon. Part of my irritation is due to the thought 100% refund might not be offered, but I guess I'll find out.

To be clear I'm not sure I want out yet, but I'd like to know my options. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking tough questions at this point. DP should be able to answer them. If they can't we should all be concerned. I want this game to succeed as much as anyone else in on this.

Man, the insides of that game look sharp and those animations are looking great. I'm sure they will approach this new music challenge with the same flair that they have shown when dealing with every other aspect of this project. Jaap seems like a really genuine guy and the commitment and passion of the team just shines through in the quality of the product. I actually think their approach to communication is very professional. In that video from Expo I saw a man standing there telling it like it is - we've encountered a problem, this is how we intend to deal with it. I'd rather have these periodical updates (the NSNL) than have them waste their time coming on here to counter every negative comment. From the beginning, even when faced with huge obstacles, Jaap and Barry have remained calm and rational, kudos to them.

It seems like that the timing was slightly off for them to make a big splash at this Expo but this game and this company is going to have a huge impact on modern pinball. I don't know how I'm going to afford to buy TBL but as a pinball fan I'll be doing everything I can to make sure it happens. I can't wait to seen the production games at the Dutch Pinball Open.

I got a chance to play it for the first time at Expo. From my experience if I was already in on a preorder I'd stay in, but for me I expect to wait at least a year to purchase. The flippers and shots felt really good. The art and theme are great. However, they really have a ways to go in getting everything dialed in - I had three times where the ball got "lost" during the game and eventually went into ball search mode before kicking it out. One time I had one ball in play and another popped out and sat in the shooter lane. I had to end my game with a tilt trying to get the game to find the lost ball. I'm sure they are going to fix these issues, but it will take some time.
So, assuming they get the rules and gameplay all dialed in I hope to have one next November or November 2017 if need be. For $10K they really do need to get it dialed in though.

You can definitely get your $$$ back.

I personally feel the game is over-budget or at least very close to it. If you disagree with me, at least make your counterpoint.

The exchange rate is hurting the bottom line for those doing business in Europe. The Euro took a beating over the last year, but it is still in DP's favor to get this game out ASAP and sell as many as possible before the Euro is in line with the US dollar.

China's economy has a bad cold right now and it's about to give the rest of the world the cooties in the very near future. Don't believe for a second that China can't implode. And let's not pretend there isn't a real estate/tech bubble in the US, Canada, UK, Australia, China, and elsewhere. This and the fact that 2016 is an election year in the US. Our job market may be doing well right now, but people aren't getting raises and Millennials aren't spending. Retirement costs are rising faster than Social Security benefits. I could go on. Wait until April when the corporate Q1 '16 earning reports start coming out. It is going to start getting rocky. This affects all of us. Any pin collector should think twice about their NIB purchases (and financial strength) moving forward. We're technically overdue for what lies ahead. And don't be surprised to see a surplus of pins and other "toys" for sale over the next few years as people prioritize their discretionary income (or deal with job losses). I'm willing to bet money with anyone that doubts what I'm stating here.

I think DP would love to charge more for this game, but do what you have to do. At least, keep these economic factors in mind. If you're going to pull the trigger, why spend more later?

You are kidding, right? Because this is the exact opposite. They make more money for games sold in the US than expected. Price for US customers is in US dollars. So they were suppose to earn $8,000 (or $8,500, can't remember) / 1.36, and now /1.11...when translated in euros.

/ stands for "divided by". Dividing by 1.36 gives a lower figure than dividing by 1.11...

Sounds similar to the gameplay in March this year at TxPinFest

'
You're exactly right and I apologize for the confusion. I'm typing on my Surface without the keyboard cover and watching The Walking Dead at the same time. I should've finished my edit, so please forgive me! You're definitely correct. $8500 US this time last year was 6,662€, while it is 7,480€ today. The real point I intended to make was the difference in the drop in local currency. Yes, most games will be shipped to US, but there is little or no room for margin especially with container freight and so forth.

I'm not an expert in international business by any means, but the exchange rate only bites dp in the ass when they have to convert euros to dollars, right? In fact, if they havea sizable amount of preorder money in dollars from 1-2 years ago, before they became much more valuable vs the euro, then shouldn't that be HELPING a lot? And if, in fact, DP intends to so more future business in dollars, shouldn't they simply keep their dollar sales as dollars, using them to fund purchases required to be in dollars?

That's a great question and I don't have that answer as we don't know how they distributed or invested our money. At any rate, a weak Euro still affects DP in many ways. Think about the freight costs to the US. It's now going to cost more than originally projected. This eats away at what's presumed to be already-low margins.

On the other hand a weak Euro vs the Dollar could also mean the price of a TBL for U.S. customers drops back into the range of a new Stern LE... that might be a shot in the arm for TBL sales.

On a side note, I think they pulled Jesus from the bowling alley animation scroll. I don't recall seeing him in the latest code at Expo.

TBL.jpg

I can't see this being like WOZ where they have enough spare inventory to sell. The theme sells itself so even if a preorder person gets out there enough buyers waiting when it's ready to roll out. But only when shipping would those buyers want in.

Supposedly, the proto sold for around $25K (unconfirmed), which blows my mind. Clearly, there's a market for this game, whether it's shipping or not.

Whoa baby. Some people will really pay for something rare I guess.

None of the collectors I talked to thought it was worth over $14k. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm wondering why they're going with two discrete powersupplys instead of using only the MW RSP-500? in combination with a M3-ATX DC-DC converter to run the PC components.
m3-atx-automotive-dc-dc-power-supply-pic1.jpg

This was the most depressing post that I've read in a long time!