Yes. They had never done anything like this.

How long were you on the list?

You are looking at about 5-6 months at current pace if you get on the list now.

I see a Xytech engineering sample for sale here. Does anyone really know the ins and outs of how that differs from the standard ARA/current DP builds? How risky is it to take on a 1 of 3 in existence engineering sample of a game that already has limited documentation and info? Obviously Xytech won’t be of any use as far as support goes. Just curious the thoughts of the group.

Here is another question that I'm not sure has been asked or addressed - were there any lessons learned from the Xytech experience that have informed or compelled changes to the current crop of games being built? Changes to electronics, mechanics, etc? The engineering on this game is now over 5 years old and especially with electronics, that is a lifetime.

Is there a list of known upgrades, changes or improvements between the original 50 games (and the hostage ARA games that sat for years) and the new games coming out now?

Love the concept but something about the proportion and proximity of the holes to each other just appears “off”. I wish the holes had been more proportional to the diameter of the ball to create a more realistic look of a bowling ball. Look at the mod couple mod for the little ball return balls. The holes on those are totally proportional to the ball return and the ball itself which contributes to the overall look and quality.

I did a search and came up empty -

Does anyone know if Invisiglass from cointaker (says it fits stern games) will fit TBL? How about PDI glass?

Congrats on the purchase! These still trading hands on the open market at $15000? Looks like it has mods - at least the new button mod is visible.

There is also a ready detailed and helpful maintenance thread here with info on some common issues some games have had. My game arrives Tuesday and I can’t wait!!! Been waiting for this moment since late 2016!

Have you looked in the trough? I got my game yesterday and have it leveled perfectly. Occasionally when the ball drains it doesn't recongnize but its not because of switches or some error - its because the ball is just sitting in the top of the trough and not rolling down. I just posted in the maintenance thread as well. I am going to try to add some washers between the screws and the playfield at the leading end of the trough to make the angle steeper and see if that helps. Any other thoughts from the group??

Lets talk about the right gate assembly and its function. It has been recorded by a few owners that this gate can get hung up. Pretty much right out of the box last week the gate exhibited issues of not being able to open fast enough on well placed shots up the Donny orbit shot. I took apart the assembly twice now to see if I could figure it out.

As others have mentioned, there can be a clearance issue of the spring's position within the hole causing it to drag on the edge of the hole. This was also the case in mine. At first I bent the arm on the gate assembly itself to alter the position of the spring within the hole. That seemed to help but I could still feel drag on the spring. It was not suspended cleanly in the hole.

To finally solve the issue I ended up doing 2 things.

1. Shorten the spring by about 1/8" and create a new loop on the cut end so the spring didn't have so much play.
2. By using the screw closest to the subway under the playfield as the pivot-point, I rotated the assembly about 1/4" clockwise and tapped a new screw hole for the 2nd of the two mounting points. This allows for the gate assembly to float at the dead-center of the hole in the playfield.

In doing so the drag issue has been 100% resolved however sometimes during games the gate doesn't open but I think I have finally understood the intent of that gate and the logic behind it.

If the intent was for the Donny shot to always orbit then that gate wouldn't even be necessary so why is it there? Perhaps this is common knowledge of the ruleset but I thought I would write it down for anyone who might be struggling with this same issue.

The gate only lifts - thereby allowing the ball to orbit - while you are qualifying (lighting the DONNY lights) Donny Character. Once you have qualified Donny and prior to starting Character multiball, and still hit the Donny shot, the gate does not open and drops the ball into the pop bumpers. Also, the gate will open during other modes where you have to hit the orbits but otherwise, the game wont let you orbit from the left side.

Been thinking about this too - the playfield metal trim / rails / ball guides. Two things stand out. The finish on all of that metal is extremely dull and takes a beating, shows ball trails and wear immediately. The edges are a bit rough and where they are curved, the ramp diverter for example, they aren't actually curved, its manufactured / bent in a segmented fashion and not a true curve. It performs functionally but the appearance is a bit odd.

It would be quite a bit of work to tear down essentially the entire playfield but I wonder how much of an improvement it would be to take all of that metal, clean up the edges and have it powdercoated / chromed. Anyone else ever consider this?

You can see what I mean throughout the image gallery in this thread. Its the same production technique and materials used since day-one and is true of all machines.

That metal looks SOOO MUCH BETTER! imagine doing the entire game with that new finish, what is that? Did you polish it yourself? What was the process?

Does anyone actually understand how the coil strength settings work? The value says "MS" and then depending on the coil gives a range of different numbers. How are owners to interpret that? Why is every coil (or set of similar coils) provided different values or a different range? Is it really adjusting "power" or is it adjusting responsiveness...speed.

If the values are responsiveness, one would conclude that the smaller the number the faster / snappier the coil.
If the values are "power", one would conclude that the larger the number, the harder the coils fire thus a snappier response.

What is correct? And what does MS mean? All I can come up with is "milliseconds" which is why I am wondering if "lowering" the number theoretically would improve performance.

I haven't done enough testing to actually notice if either of these are perceptible in play.

Anyone else have thoughts or concrete information on this?

just had this happen for the first time yesterday!

This must be a bug. If the switches are registering then its got to be a software issue.

Hey How is this holding up over time? I am still thinking about tearing down my game to send off all visible metal parts for refinishing. Would love an update on this!

I am about ready to tear down my machine to take all the metal off and send it out to powdercoat. I need to tighten the screw on that car (mine recently started to come loose - impacting how well and reliably the switches work up there) so I might as well go all-in and take it apart. I am scared half to death to dismantle a machine I paid so much money for but I have nothing but time since the machine will never leave my collection, might as well take it offline for a bit. Wish me luck!

Thinking about copper. That one guys machine looked great with copper ramps, legs and lockdown bar, rails. Why not take it a step further and do ALL the exposed metal in copper??

PinballplAting.com already does the wire ramps and apron wire form as a set in copper - check it out.

7D65638B-8309-4BF6-9EAA-8347C7DAF6DE (resized).png

So my game has the same orbit issues / drains coming around from right to left but my game actually gets the ball closer to the right flipper, not the left. I am looking at FATTER post rubber for they lost to bend the rail further and make the ball hit the right flipper.

I just added some adhesive backed 1/4” weather strip foam to the top of the existing foam on the two lock targets and it’s already made a world of difference to slow down riccochet and airballs.

Those switches need to be replaced with reinforced ones like stern uses where that metal plate has a Small return leg turned backward along the entire length that adds rigidity.

Is it not just any old bally Williams lockdown bar in chrome finish?

I got mine about 10 weeks or so after payment in full.

That wasn’t the case for mine. It shipped direct from DP to my door. I tracked it via the DHL the whole way. Took about 6 Business days door to door.

Cointaker is relying on Dutch Pinball for information who is relying on multiple parts vendors for information while also relying on DHL for information and everyone's information is tied up to global COVID information which means ALL of the information is to some extent unreliable....

I don't blame CT at all. I got my game earlier this summer and CT was always responsive, even if there wasn't any real update, I always 100% knew that they were on top of the situation, my money was safe and my game would eventually arrive, which it did!

I get the anxiety and impatience around this and you might be thinking "easy for you to say! you have your game!" but believe me, but as someone who already went through the process, its worth the wait and there is no reason to be concerned. Worst case, you get your money back in full. Any other case, the game will arrive...and probably sooner than you or I will get our GNR on order at this point!

Anyone have a link to replacement stand up targets (stronger metal) and the stern-style roll over switches? What about the gate assembly in the back orbit? I wish DP Would publish a parts manual

Yes it was easy - check out the “TBL” maintenance thread, the instructions are pretty clear. You’ll need a usb keyboard.

Happened to my machine about a month after I got it, did the commands as indicated in that thread and it’s never happened again.

Accidental duplicate post

why is your light trampoline target reporting closed in switch test? take a look at that, it should NOT be on this list in switch test.

The game ships with multiple versions of the code onboard you can switch between. Have you tried to change your code version and play a few games?

Glad that worked out!! That trampoline switch gets wedged behind the posts occasionally for me too. Just keep an eye on that.

It’s 12,500 plus shipping actually....and worth every penny!!! Tons of good in depth reviews. Watch straight down the middle YouTube review. Pretty balanced and very detailed review. If you love the movie...like really love the movie..you’ll score it higher than they did. And by the way, code updates are on the way for the first time in several years!

It comes with a rug!!!!

6.5 is too shallow for this game. Way to many bad bounces and airballs and rejects off standup targets going straight down the middle at the speed of a bullet. 7.0-7.2 seems to be the sweet spot for me

The other thing I would as is that it is worth it to experiment with the slingshot coil strength and flipper coil strength. The slings need to be pulled down from factory settings in my opinion. just too much force out of the box. The flippers are ok at factory strength but I turned down the right one several points on the menu option. These changes have helped slow down and smooth out gameplay a bit for me.

Awesome news!!!! thanks for Sharing - lots to look forward to for current owners on this!

Welcome back! Sold high and bought low I imagine you made a good financial choice in that sense given where prices were and are now!

I added a 1/4” wide weather strip full length on the underside of the lockdown bar - cost 50 cents and the bar is MUCH tighter and has a better feel to it.

This is fantastic. Added value and depth to the game and very much on-theme! Really excited to get the new code in hand!!! I’ve been purposefully NOT playing my game waiting for the new code!

Excellent manual!!! All it needs is wiring schematics and a parts list / Bill of Materials

Huge code update!!!!!!! Going to install tonight Andie play! Cant wait!

I don’t have a streaming rig but just played 10 games or so.

Polish, polish and more shiny polish! Love the updates! Gameplay is a little deeper (with extra balls coded in and add-a-ball for nihilist mode, etc) but the biggest benefits here to me is all the new polish. Some new light shows, callouts, clever use of lights to attract your attention, new screen graphics and animations, easier to follow your progress on screen during gameplay, new diagnostic tools and settings within the menus, tweaks to the scoring and multipliers, bowling alley tweaks (love the new lighting there too) This is a really great step in the right direction.

Can’t wait to see what they come up with next!!

On the market for sale? Looks like only one here. In existence? Probably around 300 now or so? Just a guess.

There has been mention of modifying the code to replace music with the actual original sound tracks by the original artists. Does anyone have experience with that they are willing to share?

I have both as well - they are entirety different and scratch totally different itches for me. I’ve been playing a lot more GNR lately but only because it’s newer to me. TBL (and frankly everything else that’s NOT GNR) is feeling very “traditional” these days. GNR is just another level across the board.

It is extremely hard to get through the objectives on factory settings on 3 ball play. In fact its a much more enjoyable game with the settings lightened up - you get to see much more of the game and the depth to the code and the usage of the assets is actually pretty great, if you can see it!

And if new buyers dry up, that effectively shuts down all hope of further EA's getting games. They seem to me moving forward ok here...slowly...very slowly...but people have gotten their EA games. As more used games change hands, that also scratches the itch for potential new buyers who are now out of the market for a new one so the pace at which new games are built is critical to fulfilling EA orders.

DP knows right this very moment how many orders are in so by the same accounting, they know exactly how many more EA games they can provide as a result. Has anyone ever asked if the current backlog of game orders for new buyers is sufficient to cover all of the EA games at the ratio they are currently producing them (1 EA : 4 NIB buyers).

DP could have other revenue streams too - ALOT of current owners will want the lighted apron. How about a DP authentic topper? We all see the ridiculous topper insanity going on. They could sell under cabinet / back cabinet light kits, official side art blades, etc. They are leaving a lot on the table...they need to expand their offerings.

The design of the game - primarily the use of the rough bent sheet metal subway and the exposed edges of ball guides do lead to ball damage really quickly. I feel like the game would just feel smoother and sound less clunky while playing if even the subway was replicated with vacuum formed plastic like most other games subways. The less metal on metal contact, the better.

If your Maude shot is always stopping the ball Into the pops you likely have a mech issue with your ball gate up there. I had to mess with mine for months (bending the mech, cutting and shortening the spring, adjusting mount points for the coil underneath, you name it. The ball gate was just too far down in the “neutral” position so anything more than a very slow orbit would never get around because the ball gate wouldn’t open fast enough - it had too far to travel.

Take a look…

This is a fantastic idea. This game has a handful of these painful metal on metal contact points that lead to instant ball damage. I really wish someone would make a vacuum formed subway as well. That metal one kills the ball too.

I’m in.

Does the light stay on all the time or is it tied to the lights under the roof so they go off at certain points during gameplay, etc?

This is just sad and tells the story of the pinball hobby at this moment. The hobby is simply infested with people who are in this for no reason but to flip for profit. Clearly no intention to open and enjoy these games. And it’s not just this game but literally ever single game now. Pretty sad. What was for some a joyful moment to get their long awaited purchase is for others simply a mechanism to exploit and profit. Then people complain about manufacturers raising prices but can you blame them?? Don’t be shocked when this game goes up again in price to 15k NIB for new orders.

5D21F91E-9533-4A4B-8841-6FAA3F123E32 (resized).png

To clarify, that ad just happened to be in the screen shot. Totally agree with you! And I own some of his mods on my machine

Its ZERO risk to make a deposit with Cointaker for one at this point. If DP goes belly-up, you get a refund. simple as that. Get in your deposit now because if these second hand flipper prices are any indicator, not to mention parts and supply chain issues, this game is due for another price hike...it was 9500, then 10,000, then 12,500 including air freight and now 13,000 plus shipping. Get in now before prices go up again.

Your wait will be AT LEAST a full year. Expect 18 months and be happy if it shows up faster.

Or just buy a used one for 15,000 or so and have it before the end of this month. The markup hasnt really been that high all things considered until the NIB flippers started going crazy on this most recent shipment from DP. Disappointing to see but not surprising...we shall see if anyone actually buys at those prices.

Any news on the next code update drop? Or a sneak peek at code testing in progress?

On my game I maxed out the ball save timers, reduced the amount of target hits required for nihilist mode to 15, made the character shots required lower by one (to enable each character a bit easier). The game is really just too hard on default settings to see much of the game, especially for beginners and visitors.

Great news!!!!

How about another teaser video or image???

Having an issue with this install. It installed the code no problem and got me back to the screen to select the version. I selected 1.00 and the machine rebooted and is now stuck in a loop where it shows a black screen with the ubuntu desktop text in the upper left, the wifi symbol in the upper right for a second then it shows the loading screen tumbleweed graphic for a split second and then back to the black screen over and over and over.

I turned the machine off and on, took out the USB drive and still the same thing.

How do i get this out of the boot loop??

Nope, i followed the instructions on the post above yours linked to the manual and now it just stalls out at the black screen with ubuntu desktop in the corner and nothing else and doesnt do anything. i can get back into the command line but it doesnt seem to do anything to type that command:

echo 0.57 > /home/dp/tbl/version

by the way, it looks like there are spaces as i typed it when reading out of the manual...i dont know computer programming, are the spaces required when typing commands?

Als worth noting, when i hit "alt/F2" it takes me to a more graphical interface with icons for history below and a more clean looking command line. when i run the command above here, it doesnt seem to do anyhting.

im dead in the water on the blank ubuntu desktop screen now...

making progress...

i followed the instructions on my machine that are on page 240 in the manual and was able to get it to go back to version 0.56. I just deleted 1.00 in the menu and am now going to try to install again.

yup, i think this is where i was hung up. i did not have .057 - i had .056 and a ton of older versions. i just deleted everything other than .56 and .51 and am now going through the install again on 1.00

will report back shortly.

unfortunately, same issue.

install seeims to be successful and then when selecting 1.00 the reboot goes into the endless loop. i just put it back to 0.56 again...not sure what to try next?

could it be the usb stick? the usb input on the board i am using? i am going to try again now with a different USB stick.

EDIT: Still doesnt work with a different USB stick. same issues. goes into the boot loop. any thoughts?

I tried something else.

I had 0.56 on my machine to begin with. i decided to go ahead and try to load up 0.59 first. that worked with no issues.

Then when i went to install 1.00 i noticed the install process on screen was different (3 steps - copying, unzipping, installing) vs 2 steps and alot slower (about 5 minutes vs 10+ minutes) when trying to load to 1.00 from 0.56.

IT WORKED.

i would suggest anyone having problems and not already on 0.59 to upgrade to that version first.

i tried to go from 0.56 ---> 1.00 and it failed me all morning. Upgrade to 0.59 first, that was the trick for me!

Just run the trough kick-out coil test 5 times. That’s what I do.

I had that same issue.

Follow the instructions on page 240 - control/alt/f1 to get to the command line that breaks the loop. Do the echo command from they line then power cycle to reboot to your previous code. Then update to 0.59 and then update to 1.00

The instructions are provided via on screen text and shot-specific flashing lights during the intro scene for every rug mode. The playfield lights also continue to pulse or flash to make it obvious what the goal is.

This is turning into the Sneeches! All the star bellied sneeches were the best on the beaches talking about their newer machines with “updates” most of which are meaningless other than to improve and streamline fabrication. Now all of a sudden the non-star bellied sneeches (older TBL machines circus 2021 or earlier) are the best on the beaches.

#noplayfieldissues