(Topic ID: 157474)
Linked Games
The Big Lebowski
Dutch Pinball, 2016
Topic Gallery
Eugene, OR
Quoted from rubberducks:Spooky have delivered with minimum fuss, but I'd be amazed if #3 didn't involve pre-orders and deposits.
All of Spooky's games thus far have had a deposit to hold your spot in line, so why won't #3. Including Spooky in this conversation in a negative way is ridiculous, as they have delivered on all their games, as well as contract games, and their communication is second to none. Heck they even talk to us directly here on Pinside all the time and even take suggestions and ideas for Code additions and corrections.
Currently Spooky is the only company that is doing it the right way, IMO.
Quoted from Concretehardt:needs to be serviced.
Stock pile whatever proprietary parts you may need!!!
Because,hey,who knows.If I dropped that kind of coin the first thing I would get is a second Bowling Alley.and I mean the whole fucking assembly.
Quoted from frolic:this thread is such a nut punch.
Just opinions and observations.The nut punch came directly from DP.
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:Just opinions and observations.The nut punch came directly from DP.
I'm not disagreeing with that.
After being involved with the jpop debacle, I swore after that to never go against my own business instincts. If something doesn't add up, it doesn't add up. There is nothing magical about the pinball business that allows years of cash burn and no product going out with no cash coming in.
So I'm not happy to read about another company going "radio silent". I couldn't operate my own business that way, no successful business can.
I really wanted one of these games, but I was too afraid if something broke a couple years down the line at this rate of communication from Dutch would my game be repairable? Would there be replacement parts? Boards? I'm not gambling with that kind of money
Quoted from Concretehardt:Melissa at Cointaker is probably my favorite person I have come to know in this hobby! I am glad we have her as a go between with DP, as direct contact with Barry or Jaap like what you had doesn't happen very often.
Sure Melissa is great but your conversations with her are like talking with your shrink. Good feelings from the conversation but no change in the end result. I still lost all of my money on the Jpop Zombie pin that I ordered from her. 
Quoted from paulywalnuts23:All of Spooky's games thus far have had a deposit to hold your spot in line, so why won't #3. Including Spooky in this conversation in a negative way is ridiculous, as they have delivered on all their games, as well as contract games, and their communication is second to none. Heck they even talk to us directly here on Pinside all the time and even take suggestions and ideas for Code additions and corrections.
Currently Spooky is the only company that is doing it the right way, IMO.
because the drama isn't just about 'fail or deliver' - its about what you ultimately get as well. People are buying games long before they even know what 95% of the game will be. That's the root issue.
Glad I got out of my preorder, even though I still want the game. Good luck to all of those involved.
OK I know people are getting fucking tired of the wait, I would as well. But in the midst of it was a request for video of car modes. I recorded the intros for each this morning. Sorry for glare.. it's just too sunny and warm here in San Diego 
My favorite is the car chase , where you try to avoid the delpoyed car and make loops.. so frustrating in a good way 
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:A $100 circuit board, if that expensive, holding up a multi-thousand dollar machine. I completely agree with MrBally.
You're wrong though. If it was as simple as you think, this scenario wouldn't be occurring.
ARA manufacture, design and assemble industrial and commercial machinery that as far as they or their customers are concerned, in many cases, cannot ship with design flaws or potential edge case failure scenarios. In this case, they manufacture and design the boards themselves. They aren't bought in.
I have no idea of the nature of the PCB problem ... it may be very minor, it may not be. However Stern's new Spike node boards have a very high total failure rate, from what one sees and hears, have gone through multiple revisions and are still failing on their newest game (BM '66), within a few games of first being played. They also have quite a few failures for the main CPU board. Maybe that's ok for them as they produce in volume and will make the boards in big numbers for a decade, most likely. JJP's light board issues on WOZ were and to some extent still are well documented. Other games supposedly shipping soon from other companies, if they ship at all, will do so with very serious flaws.
The fact that 20 games got boxed up after what appears to be fairly exhaustive play testing, with no fault found, but when pulled and tested for the specifiic board issue, were all found to have it, tends to suggest this is the kind of thing that absolutely wouldn't have suspended shipping, at other companies.
What makes you think that it is either simple or a matter of "a $100 circuit board", or a good idea to push forward? If it is the main board in the centre of the pf, $100 won't quite cover it ... and as someone else raised the issue of serviceability ... these will be very expensive to replace beyond the warranty period, and also potentially unavailable if DP move on from ARA and exhaust their supply of spares.
Beyond that, some companies, particularly in the EU, take legal obligations with regard to not supplying known faulty goods very seriously
Further, Jaap mentioned on the factory tour that the nature of their agreement with ARA dictates that they are not allowed to ship machines until ARA sign off on them. Given the kind of stuff they produce and that they very likely need to maintain a reputation, I've no reason to doubt the truth of this statement ... and it's not that uncommon in contract manufacturing scenarios anyway, to prevent clients meddling or interfering.
People asking for detailed and regular updates are also assuming that DP are able to disclose the nature of the problem and subsequent hold up. They may not be. Given the time that has passed, this may be likely.
Maybe a 'simple' issue which rarely happened became a major redesign. Perhaps it will result in all shipped games getting replacement boards, despite no known major issues reported. We don't know yet. I'm sure we'll find out eventually.
Quoted from sd_tom:OK I know people are getting fucking tired of the wait, I would as well. But in the midst of it was a request for video of car modes. I recorded the intros for each this morning. Sorry for glare.. it's just too sunny and warm here in San Diego
My favorite is the car chase , where you try to avoid the delpoyed car and make loops.. so frustrating in a good way
» YouTube video
» YouTube video
Thank you, sir!!
Quoted from rubberducks:I have no idea of the nature of the PCB problem ...
You say I'm wrong, but have no more information than I do.
Quoted from rubberducks:If it is the main board in the centre of the pf, $100 won't quite cover it ... and as someone else raised the issue of serviceability ... these will be very expensive to replace beyond the warranty period, and also potentially unavailable if DP move on from ARA and exhaust their supply of spares.
So, is there a basic design flaw in using a giant big board instead of multiple smaller ones?
Also, if the board is uber expensive, why not repair the boards they have in stock, unless it requires a complete redesign? If it does, Mr. Bally's point still stands... Throw a bunch of money at it and the problem is solved quicker.
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:but if it exsists only in 300 game rooms it has no impact on pinball
Who cares if it has an impact on pinball? This game doesn't have any duty to have an impact on pinball. This game was made for pinball fans who are huge Lebowski fans. It accomplished what it set out to do...well, except shipping them all lol.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:You say I'm wrong, but have no more information than I do.
So, is there a basic design flaw in using a giant big board instead of multiple smaller ones?
Also, if the board is uber expensive, why not repair the boards they have in stock, unless it requires a complete redesign? If it does, Mr. Bally's point still stands... Throw a bunch of money at it and the problem is solved quicker.
You didn't read a single thing I said, or if you did you either completely failed to understand it, or are trolling.
Wow I haven't looked at this thread for a while, can't beleive they aren't shipping the games yet! I would have asked for a refund by now... I waited over two years for WOZ and it was worth it but after that never again would I pre order. Hope it all works out and the buyers get the games or at least be made whole...
Quoted from flynnibus:because the drama isn't just about 'fail or deliver' - its about what you ultimately get as well. People are buying games long before they even know what 95% of the game will be. That's the root issue.
Actually with Spooky's titles, you just put the deposit down, Payment isn't due till you pick the machine up so you can get out whenever you like. I have no problem putting a deposit down with a company like Spooky or any other company as long as I get the Customer Service and input like you do with Spooky.
I agree there are companies out there that take advantage of this system but currently Spooky isn't one of them.
Sad thing is the largest most successful company in Pinball isn't the one setting the standard.
Quoted from MrBally:The fact is they now have problems with a circuit board they previously released without problems and they have not resolved it for a few months. Also, they are not communicating very well. Any decent company/llc/llp/GmbH would resolve it by spending resources to resolve it quickly. I'd say I'm less than 100% wrong.
No, you're 100% wrong about the money issues. I gave you that they don't communicate well. I think that's obvious. However, for you to speculate about their finances when you have no proof is entirely inaccurate.
Quoted from eggbert52:No, you're 100% wrong about the money issues. I gave you that they don't communicate well. I think that's obvious. However, for you to speculate about their finances when you have no proof is entirely inaccurate.
We'll see.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:You say I'm wrong, but have no more information than I do.
Difference is you drew a conclusion.. he said 'you cant draw one'. One tries to claim they know the answer, the other accepts the answer isn't known.
Quoted from eggbert52:No, you're 100% wrong about the money issues. I gave you that they don't communicate well. I think that's obvious. However, for you to speculate about their finances when you have no proof is entirely inaccurate.
What are the $$ facts?
Who are the backers and is everybody guaranteed to get their games?
Quoted from highdef:Pardon the pun, but what other industry/hobby rolls this way?
On the flipside, what other industry/hobby do the consumers demand constant updates on a nearly daily basis and demand all their questions be answered by a manufacturer? I think we are pretty unique that way. We put a lot more demands on these companies because we've already laid money out, but also don't understand that them spending and hour a day answering emails and Pinside posts also slows down production. It's tricky that way. I wish we could hit that perfect balance where the players/buyers of the pins could give input on the shots/modes and really help out the manufacturers, but do it in a limited fashion where it doesn't detract too much of their time and turn threads sour. We all want the same thing, new, fun and innovative games that play well and are produced by a number of competing companies.
Quoted from homebrood:Wow I haven't looked at this thread for a while, can't beleive they aren't shipping the games yet! I would have asked for a refund by now... I waited over two years for WOZ and it was worth it but after that never again would I pre order. Hope it all works out and the buyers get the games or at least be made whole...
They've shipped games, I think the first 50? A number of people in my area have gotten them. They just had a batch of bad boards and are waiting on replacements before beginning shipping again. This seems like a pretty normal and understandable delay.
Understandable yes but they certainly can throw out a guesstimate for something to happen. Someone has to know a ball park after this much time has passed since the last newsletter. That way we don't have to keep looking and 'hoping' for something to move.
For those that are not official "early Achievers" but have an order in through CoinTaker- any idea who is holding the deposit money? CoinTaker or Dutch Pinball?
Quoted from nwpinball:. I wish we could hit that perfect balance where the players/buyers of the pins could give input on the shots/modes and really help out the manufacturers, but do it in a limited fashion where it doesn't detract too much of their time and turn threads sour. We all want the same thing, new, fun and innovative games that play well and are produced by a number of competing companies.
Spooky is doing this now.
Quoted from Mike_M:For those that are not official "early Achievers" but have an order in through CoinTaker- any idea who is holding the deposit money? CoinTaker or Dutch Pinball?
I'm one of them, and it's my understanding is that it is the distributor.
Quoted from nwpinball:On the flipside, what other industry/hobby do the consumers demand constant updates on a nearly daily basis and demand all their questions be answered by a manufacturer? I think we are pretty unique that way. We put a lot more demands on these companies because we've already laid money out, but also don't understand that them spending and hour a day answering emails and Pinside posts also slows down production
I beg to differ. No one asked for daily updates! And how does a simple production status update email slow down production? Your rationale is no excuse for poor communication. In all honesty, it's rather insulting.
I'm currently backing a $300 project on Kickstarter from an unknown startup out of San Diego (with $2.7M in pledges). Even though they missed their projected release date, they provide email updates AT LEAST once a week. I don't mind the delayed release date. The fact that they are consistent with communication not only impresses me, but puts me at ease. They have provided backers at least 40 updates since February 2016. How many has DP provided since 2014?
Again, I love DP. I'm still 100% vested in TBL, but their communication sucks. Their communication was responsive and clear when it came to collecting money prior to start of production.
It would be smart for DP to provide more updates. I'm currently in "don't care" mode because I'm so far back on the preorder list and I don't mind that because it gives DP time to fix any bugs that come up as earlier games get delivered.
I'm a firm believer in stuff happens, so I get that they need to get the board issue resolved, however, they've had my full payment a long, long time, so please give us regular updates!
http://texaspinball.com/tpf/dutch-pinball-really-ties-the-room-together/
Looks like Jaap will be at TPF
There are some vendors at my office today from the Netherlands. I asked them if they knew about the Big Lebowski pinball and when it may be shipping. They looked at me like I was from another planet. I don't think they knew what pinball or English was.
This is my Big Lebowski pinball update for today.
Quoted from eggbert52:No, you're 100% wrong about the money issues. I gave you that they don't communicate well. I think that's obvious. However, for you to speculate about their finances when you have no proof is entirely inaccurate.
You were saying......
Quoted from MrBally:You were saying......
Yep. Mr Bally and I got called trolls for saying it had to be more than just a simple board design/assembly issue.
Quoted from chadderack:Something going on in a private TBL forum the rest of us haven't heard yet?
Quoted from chadderack:Bueller??
The recent news can be summarized in the following two posts in "The Big Lebowski Preorder Club" thread in the "All Clubs" sub-forum...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/59#post-3601977
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/62#post-3602961
Quoted from Razorbak86:The recent news can be summarized in the following two posts in "The Big Lebowski Preorder Club" thread in the "All Clubs" sub-forum...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/59#post-3601977
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-big-lebowski-preorder-club/page/62#post-3602961
Thank you. This was the only Lebowski thread I was following--hadn't read the preorder thread.
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