Quoted from Deaconblooze:Seems to me they noticed the recent love for Seawitch, saw the love for TNA, and missed the fucking point.
so spot on, it deserves to be quoted again!!!
LOFL!!!
(Topic ID: 223791)
Linked Games
Batman 66 (LE)
Stern, 2016-
Batman 66 (Premium)
Stern, 2016
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Batman 66 (Super LE)
Stern, 2016
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Seawitch
Stern Electronics, 1980
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The Beatles (Diamond Edition)
Stern, 2018
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The Beatles (Gold Edition)
Stern, 2018
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The Beatles (Platinum Edition)
Stern, 2018
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If anyone is looking to upgrade and sell your old, outdated, no multiball, nomagnet seawitch... i am your huckleberry
Quoted from kidchrisso:5k now....
Lol
I should have been more clear... if anyone wants to sell for a reasonable price then i am your huckleberry.
Quoted from kidchrisso:that is reasonable, new one is gonna cost you double...you should have jumped sooner slacker
Sorry, but I don't buy from people like you.
You can pump all you want but it aint happening even though you have been fishing for a year.
I was just told that "they only have a handful of songs" and more importantly "they are not the full songs" seriously, did the license limit them so much that they are only allowed partial songs?
Quoted from Methos:I'll probably be landing this so it will go up at some point.
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!
please reach out in advance/direct. Would be appreciated and I am guessing we can work something out.
(may also be able to check on my pricing for beatles to help you out like we have in the past?)
Quoted from alveolus:I admire Stern for basically saying “F-you, Pinside” as they try to navigate to the blue ocean of the pinball market while sitting back and watching Pinside erupt into madness.
My guess is this is Stern making the books look as good as possible before the angels get out. ???
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Huh?
People have been saying over and over again "why doesn't stern vault a classic game?" Well here you are. They've proven it can be done.
So yes, I'd say it opens the door to either releases or reskinned classics being done.
This is not a vault of Seawitch. This is a rehash using little added effort to make a game that is reskinned.
If this was for pinheads, they would have just made and exact replica of Seawitch. It would have sold a whole hell of a lot better than this thing will.
I do question if this release is all part of the marketing and they are going to surprise us with a sub 5k "gold edition" after the diamond and platinums sell out to the deep pockets crew.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:So kinda like Spiderman Vault Edition then. Which was, quite clearly, a vault edition.
Clearly, Beatles proves that Stern considers re-releasing and updating classic designs is a viable option in the future.
Should make many people here happy! Please head over to my All You Need is Love thread for more discussion on these exciting possibilities!
did they change main parts of the layout on SMVE? I was pretty sure just new art and identical layout, code, etc...
A vault is an updated version of an older game in the essentially same design.
Beatles is taking Seawitch and modifying it plus reskinned with new art.
I view those as quite different and the Beatles itteration just makes it appear lazy and sadly likely to change the feel from Seawitch quite a bit.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I can feel the wind from his massive dick swinging around all the way over here in NY!
Those kneepads continue to come in handy for you levi.
Quoted from luvthatapex2:Not if it has a coindoor as mnpinball said the other day.....
It will have a coin door. I cant imagine a world in which Stern puts out any commercial game and no coin door on it.
the Pin or zizzle, sure...
but a full scale commercial pin will always have a coin door.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:who singlehandedly aided and abbeted the heighway scam
pretty strong words for such a tiny man with nothing to support that claim.
Quoted from j_m_:looking at the playfield changes, stern could have had a huge win on their hands in the way of a seawitch remake.
think about it, all of the features that they added for this machine could have worked wonderfully with the original theme (the spinning disc would have made a cool whirlpool and the magnet at the top of the riptide loop, a kraken or some other deep sea creature to temporarily trap and capture your ball
I'm curious to see a better video and see if they changed the spring metal flap that allows the ball into the playfield or kept it exactly the same
I have to think there is a good shot that this idea is still to come...
ala > WNBJM and Can Crusher.
When Beatles is done selling then Seawitch 2.0 comes along. I guess I can be hopeful, but it seems very logical and smart way to do this.
Cash grab up front for all the big pockets and old farts, then give the pinheads what they really wanted.
Quoted from hassellcastle:Something too to consider.
Half of the production will most likely export out of the country so we’ve been told.
Thus leaving only 50 Diamonds, 125 Platniums and 807 Gold Editions here in the US.
I’m looking forward to playing it simply because I’ve always loved Seawitch. Rip the tide baby!
Hype Hype, HYPE HYPE HYPE.
And people think I am a schill... lol... this guy actually makes money off the sale of these games. Pretty despicable that he only comes around here with this BS.
Quoted from kermit24:Levi is the new Kaneda.
I will admit, I have thought he may have actually sold his account to his buddy???
Quoted from tamoore:Levi is about a 6x multiplier smarter and 12x bonus more clever than the K guy.
let's not get to crazy around here...
If rumors are true that distributors get 10 packs (7 golds, 2 platinum, and 1 diamond) for 70k, then I would be down for a gamble if 9 others are...
I propose a purchase price of $7100 each person. The Distributor gets to make a grand and does nothing but instruct the drop shipment of games.
For that $7100 each person gets a number from 1-10. We do a random number generator and the first number picked gets the diamond, the next 2 get the platinum, and the rest get gold.
Worst case you pay $7100 plus your actual shipping (or free pickup if you live in chicagoland area) and get a gold. Get lucky and you get the diamond or platinum.
Any distributors want to make an easy grand?
I bet I can find 9 other gambling people to buy that 10 pack 
Quoted from jgentry:Why would a distro piss off stern by selling below their MAP, piss off all of there competition, and sell games for a tiny profit when they can just buy a 10 pack and easily make 10K?
Quoted from rai:Except the distributor won’t do that if they could sell the Diamond or Platinum for more than a grand profit. (Assuming they can also sell golds). Plus they’d be selling the golds for less than directed by Stern which wouldn’t work. More likely your idea would require $8K for each pin $80K. But I still don’t see that working.
The more I think about this pin, the more it makes sense as a reward to a distributor to buy 10/20/30 pins and they probably will be able to sell the limited editons for $20K and $15k each.
Because I dont think these are selling and many distributors seem afraid to even take a 10 pack for fear of being stuck with many for a while.
I think Distos may be able to find the sucker willing to buy a diamond for 20k and platinums for 10k, but then they may be sititng on a bunch of golds for months cause they aint selling at even 7k.
Quoted from frolic:I guess we forgot that distributors have to eat.
Oh, but they don't deserve to feed their families if they're "only" drop shipping 10 games at a cash outlay of $70k. I get it.
Yeah, 1k for doing nothing but calling in 10 drop shipments seems like a nice paycheck to me.
Esp when it is a no risk idea. A gaurenteed 1k or the possibility of eating 10k when sitting on 4-5 golds for 6 months before having to sell for a loss?
I will always take the easy money on that one.
If they need to make a little more to make this work for them then you can make it a caveat of the gamble that whomever wins the Diamond has to pay an additional 1k to the distro. That gets a distributor 2 for doing about 2 hours of work. Seems like good money to me.
Quoted from iceman44:Yes. They are for sale as always when Stern announces any pin
You get in line for an in demand LEs with distro deposits. You know that
People aren’t crawling all over themselves to get in line and sending in videos on why they deserve a Diamond edition
To the contrary, Distros are picking up the phones and dialing us
Thus it appears demand is very weak at this point
yup, pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.
Think about any hot title and by now there would be multiple people on here saying "anyone know of a LE for sale with anyone, I cant find any"
Instead all we have are distros making cold calls and on here trying to hype almost 2000 games as a limited edition and collectible. I still cant believe the "buy 2, one to play and one as an investment" laughable and telling when they are saying that sales pitch.
Quoted from jgentry:With all of your connections you should be able to make this happen then. You've stated lots of times how cheap you've gotten nib games.
It's strange to me that you are suddenly willing to pay $7100 for a game that you wouldn't pay anything for just a few days ago.
no!
I am willing to gamble on buying a 1/10 shot of buying a diamond, a 2/10 shot of a platinum, or 7/10 shot of a gold.
I figure that is a 2k gamble. If I end up with a gold then I overpaid by 2k.
If I get lucky with either platinum then I would likely sell it for a small profit.
If I won the slot for diamond then I would sell it for a slightly larger profit.
Quoted from jgentry:How are you going to sell something that no one wants? Remember, these are garbage that are not selling.
I have a feeling with the prices I have heard on platinum and Diamond editions, that I will have little problem selling one for substantially less.
If you won the diamond for 7100, I am guessing you could easily sell it for 14k and then turn around and find a used gold in 6 months with the profit 
Quoted from DCFAN:I seriously doubt Stern would allow a distributor to do that.
what Vid says...
Stern has no authority to do that and could get in serious trouble.
Also, real world is that prices vary widely among distributors. Many have touted the "Stern forced minimum" as it gets them off the hook and is a really nice out for them. The good ones will be honest about it.
Quoted from jgentry:You always say this but then you can't ever name anyone that gives good deals on games and you never seem to know what NIB titles cost. So who are the good ones, help us all out buddy so we don't get screwed.
sorry, it has been made clear to me that sharing that info could prevent future deals.
I can tell you that I have called/ emailed JJ, Cointaker, Joe, Tilt, Fun, anmd a few others and gotten different prices (or add-ons) from every one of them on the same game.
Quoted from vid1900:I'm telling you guys, the Beatles are going to completely sell out
looks like they are about 5% of the way to sell out???
Sell out (resized).JPGQuoted from vid1900:If you believe that the entire world of pinball votes in a poll on Pinside, then your math is correct.
I dont, but Pinside is obviously a very good indicator.
Quoted from jgentry:You know good and well that stern doesn't advertise that publicly. All of the distro's know exactly what it is. Ask any of them what stern set the floor at on a game and they will tell you. Floor on GOTG was $5400, $5500 for IMDN, $5600 for DP. Seems like AS was the first game when stern really started pushing this but I may be off a release. Unless you are a new customer or are just foolish all of us are pretty much paying the exact same price. Sure some people that buy every release from the same distro may get a favor here or there but it's pretty much the same all across the board. It's not very hard to figure out that it's because stern is trying to control the distro's from under cutting each other, but stern tries to control everything the distros do.
you need a new distributor and need to negotiate more! ESP if you have been buying all these games!!!!
Quoted from Psw757:Distributor I ordered with said these babies are rolling out in the US within 2 weeks. They have been ready for a little while.
What was theprice?
Quoted from CrazyLevi:pinside has pounced on this project like it's a seal with a propeller wound in a shark tank?
but I thought Pinside is not even remotely indicative of the greater pinball population???
now I am really confused.
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:Joe Kaminkow is no idiot. Sure, most here don't like the game (having never played it yet, but that's another matter). Joe has made some great machines. I am fairly certain that Ka-Pow pinball will sell out of these quickly, but not to us. I honestly don't think this was designed or even ever intended for the Pinside crowd.
It's funny how everyone here thinks Pinside is the only place pinball exists. I hope Joe and Ka-Pow do well with this game. I can't afford it (and probably wouldn't buy it if I could) but that's not the point. The die hard Beatles fans can, and will get this machine. It will get pinball to people that may not normally be into pinball, and that's good for the hobby, as much as "we" hate the game.
Chris
i sincerely hope you are correct!
if it brings in new people, that is great!
if it means I can pick one of these up on the secondary for 4500 in a couple years, even better 
Today is the day!!!
What is the price?
Does it have a coin door?
When do they ship?
What are the for sure songs and are they 100% or just clips?
Quoted from Psw757:The podcast with Joe AND Gary answer all these questions except price.
9 songs now maybe more and they aren’t short 30 second clips.
There WILL be a coin door
Ship in the next 2 weeks - already in production.
Claims to have best video content to date
At least 2 different multiballs
Deep enough that it has a wizard mode were Joes exact words.
sorry, rarely keep up with podcasts. I though it "could have a coin door" was the quote someone else said?
Also, FULL songs or GTFO! more than 30 seconds = 31 seconds for these salesmen.
Quoted from Psw757:He was emphatic about the coin door being included as was my distributor.
Song length he said some are 1:30 some 2:00 some 1:45, depends on the mode but all these songs were pretty much under 2:30 anyway as that was the radio standard.
Just glad they aren’t 15 second loops and fills.
good to hear and thx for confirming!
now let's hear the price and hope it is not what was rumored (possible that was all marketing?)
Quoted from Shapeshifter:He kind of gave the impression that why should it matter if the songs aren't full length,, as long as well integrated.
I took that to mean that most, if not all songs are not full length.
Still, price is everything for this release.
agreed that price is all that matters.
I personally think it is a really big miss to not have full songs. Makes zero sense as the songs are pinball length (<3min) already.
That was a great thing about maiden that you continue your song. Cool to hear the whole thing front to end.
Quoted from Psw757:If folks are paying $6500+ for TNA
I am not sure why people keep trying to compare it to TNA? TNA is an original game, with original concepts, and built from scratch.
Beatles is all premade everything. No original mechs, re used playfield, based on the license.
Second factor is TNA is $5995.
I like the look.
If ANY distributor is reading and has one for normal SternPRO pricing then I am interested. I know rumors are 7k plus, but rumors are also that distributors buying a 10 pack are able to set any pricing structure they want. I foresee that there are big spenders willing to pay high dollar for the Diamond and PLatinum, but good shot that golds will be sitting at the current asking prices. If you want to reach out, you know how to find me. Willing to sign NDA and not disclose price or your info so nobody gets in trouble with big papa.
I have games for possible trade or straight cash.
Quoted from jgentry:Distro pays 7k, sells to you for $5600 at a $1400 loss just because they like you that much.
nah, I look at it like..
Distro pays $70k for a 10 pack. Sells Diamond for 20k, sells 2 platinum for 10k, and is only able to sell 3 golds for 7k each.
That means they are sitting 9k in the hole and have 4 golds left. If they want to just sell one for normal Stern pricing out of the gate, then I am interested.
I am not sure why this is hard for some to understand. I like the theme and look of the game, but not for a penny over normal Pro pricing. Just making it clear that if distributors are looking for an easy hassle free sale, then I am tossing my name out there.
Hell, they may even earn my business on future purchases.
Quoted from Jvspin:Distro pays 70k for 1 Diamond, 2 Platinum, 7 Golds.
Say the goal is to make a $1000 on each machine. He sells the Diamond for $16k, the Platinums for $12k that leaves the cost of the Golds at $4700.
So he could sell the Golds at $5700 each and still make his goal.
Don't know what the typical profit is for a distributor but $1000/game sounds pretty good to me.
this guy gets it!
Quoted from Psw757:807 golds, 125 platinum and 50 diamond for the North American market. Other than Supreme, can’t think of too many other machines that are truly this limited.
every Stern Premium to date...
every Spooky game to date...
Quoted from jgentry:Lol, just what they wanted
earn 1k once... or earn $500 a bunch of times for year to come?
Math is tough, like pinball.
Quoted from fosaisu:Don't you already have a distributor that's regularly hooking you up with NIB Sterns at hundreds less than what everyone else reports paying for them? Why not give that guy your Beatles business?
asked for a price and no reply yet...
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:You. Are. Unbelievable.
and yet, I had a distributor call me today due to the post.
Not the deal i was looking for, but better than I expected.
I am going to wait it out as I am not interested enough to pay the current prices. Pretty sure prices will drop or I can pick one up from a Beatles fan that gets bored of it in a couple years. If not, then it wont be the game for me.
Madison, WI
Quoted from vid1900:Seriously, I'm sure the game will be sold out long before WOG lists them for sale.
I get the impression things are not selling anywhere as well as you presume. Joe seems to be a bit touchy on the subject all together...
joe statement (resized).JPGQuoted from epthegeek:Why would Joe being reactionary about someone insulting his game be any indicator of sales?
When it is selling well then people tend to not be so defensive.
Reality is that original comment was not insulting his game very hard. Just a fact someone made (Beatles is factually a reskin of an old game with a spinning disk mech borrowed from earlier games and Beatles art) and their desire to see Munsters. It was not like the poster was going out and putting it on his timeline, but rather that Joe is defensive enough to go find the post in a pinball group and reply.
May be best for him to turn off social media for a few weeks post release as that wont earn any fanfare.
Quoted from vid1900:He spent 2 years of his life developing something that everyone said could never be done.
Then instead of being able to enjoy his success, a bunch of pindicks are shitting on him and his hard work.
We (pinheads) are critical of every new game that comes out; as we should be for any 7200 purchase!
If the game is selling well, then seems silly to be so defensive. Let the product and sales do the talking.
I really dont think it can be construed as shitting on him/his work. He had to know a common critique when you reskin a game and sell it for a huge mark up that these would be just that... it is a largely recycled game sold with a license alone. I dont think he is entitled to be both defensive and greedy. Just does not work well on anyone.
Quoted from KevInBuffalo:Man, when did WPT get to be a $7200 game?
[quoted image]
timing was spot on there!!!
LOL!
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Stern sold out so they do know their market and they must have made a fortune on this run
To put things in perspective, Stern also claims to have "sold out of WWELE" and sold out of every LE ever made but reality is obviously far from that.
In other words, Stern is completely untrustworthly when it comes to claims of "sold out"
Even if they do sell out the first half (Gary said recently that they are only selling the first 1000 or so in the initial run on the line) those only went to distributors.
Distributors it appears are taking the risk on the 10 pack, but when they sell 1 diamond for 20k, 2 platinum for 12k, and four golds for 7200 they have already made their profit of 2800 on the 70k purchase and they have 3 golds left to sell.
If Stern knows anything, they know that there are some uber rich high end collectors that are able (call is stupid, but more likely they just have so much money that 20k is a joke to them) to buy the 12k and 20k games. They also knew that these would carry sales so the marketing of 10 packs to distributors was a good way to move games.
This is all a perception game of marketing. They love to say "sold out" but that is complete BS. Sold out is ONLY once all 1964 are made, and sold to end users.
You can damn well bet that if in 4 months many distributors are still sitting on 3-7 golds, that the second run of the last 964 is not going to happen.
I spoke with 2 distributors this weekend and they both have golds readily available (pretty sure many still have Diamonds and platinum still available also). Call around if you are interested.
Quoted from cottonm4:If, as you speculate, the last 964 are not produced that will make the Golds that are out there a little on the scarce side.. 1614 -964 = 650. 650 spread around the world will make seeing one of these a rare event indeed.
lol, yup... better buy 2 golds now since they will be uber rare
Quoted from DS_Nadine:Says you.
Stern says it's sold out, because it (Stern) is sold out.
Basically saying: You're wrong.
I do agree that it's a horrible endeavour for the retailers tough, taking all the risk (as usual) and blame (that's new).
no, I am right. Even in Stern's words they are "sold out" of the first run of 1000 machines. That leaves another 964 yet to be sold even by Stern.
If you believe that the run is completely sold, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Quoted from scott_freeman:clarification:
Stern sells to distributors; not end users.Stern does not know when all the world-wide distributors have exhausted their inventories.
sure they do. You can be sure they wont be running the 964 in Jan if they dont have distributors asking for additional 10 packs.
Also, by the sounds of it all the diamonds will be sold in the initial run which means less high dollar sales for future 10 packs.
Quoted from ASOA:Game play looks very good. Definitely not a slow game. Animations I agree are the best stern has done to date. Great choice of colors and fonts. This game is way better then people's first reaction. Stern should have presented this game the right way from the beginning and it would have been better received.
how many golds you have left to sell out of the 10 pack?
smart man, not buying into the hype and ordering a 10 pack!
I like how you think. Just sit it out on the sidelines and wait for Muensters.
Quoted from ASOA:I started this thread 83 days ago. I recieved 50 downvotes. Not sure why there was so much hate on pinside. Here we are 2,653 posts later and this pin has sure changed the public's perception. Pinball is supposed to be fun. Remember!
It has changed one persons opinion and I personally am pretty disappointed in ICEMAN. I thought he was going to stand his ground on being against this money grab BS and constant schilling by distributors on here about how hype every game is, how 2000 is limited, and how you 'better buy now or miss out'.
Sad to see but it appears he got sold on the "it will only cost you a grand for the fun once you resell the game". It is like the crack dealer just continuing to badger the addict till they cave and buy another game form them. They laugh at how easy it was to make another $1500 of their loyal customer and then repeat it all over again while the customer tosses away another grand once they sell.
I guess take note for all the schill distributors, that seems to be a good line to use on your bank rolled customers that are a bit tentative as prices continue to rise on Stern reskins and pro models now selling for 8k.
I truly hope you enjoy your game Iceman and I love you brother, but still sad to see the flip flop on the principle of not buying into the cash grab and then changing so dramatically before even playing for yourself. Game looks fun so I am sure you will dig it, but man... 8k for that is just sad IMHO.
Stern has obviously still not found the top of the pile.
Seems like every company should adopt this model. If I were charlie, I think you seriously have to consider making 50 "unobtanium editions" of your next title and selling them direct to customer for 25k. Slap on some different trim, put on all the options (no need for the shaker apparently though), and upcharge all for the perception.
Think about it as the way to then fund your next big license.
Quoted from jgentry:Disappointed in Iceman, lol. Were you 2 going to stand together and change the world. You really need to stop calling others a schill with some of the crap you have pulled over the years.
lol...
you do realize that to be a schill you need to actually gain some benefit from doing so. e.g. these distributors on here hyping are making big bucks on this Beatles schilling. Each one sold is likely netting them $1500+
Quoted from jgentry:You mean like getting early games and pumping things to no end. With holding information about games that would be taken negatively. Convincing people to put money on games that are dead in the water. Seems pretty schilly to me.
Distros sell games, that how the make money genius.
not sure where you are getting your info?
Any games I got early are because I bought and paid for them before others.
I never withhold anything from anyone. When a game sucks I am happy to say so
I never actively hunt out sales for any game and ask people to put money down.
I think you have a tough time deciphering a fan being excited about a game (e.g. Iceman hyped on a new title) vs a shill (you happy levi; I spelled it right for you) e.g. all the Stern distributors that are hyping games and in some cases even telling flat out lies to sell games and convince people to put down $$$$$
Quoted from yancy:You're a scrappy operator counting every dollar. He's a collector looking to spend his dollars to have fun. Different equation when you turn your hobby into a jobby.
lol.
I put games on route for fun and those are a small fraction of my collection. I buy games for me and to have fun. This is all just part of the hobby.
My equation is the same as ICE. He just has way more cash than I do. Buying a game for me or to share on route is the same equation. Needs to be fun, something I will enjoy, and make sense for my finances.
The only difference for route is a little more leeway to buy a game that costs more then I normally would personally pay since it will eventually earn back some of the cost for my sweat equity of maintaining it.
I like the Beatles and it looks fun. I personally cant afford 8k for a gold that i think will take a 1500 drop on the secondary (if I ever sold, which I very rarely do). For route, i don't see it making any more than any other game (I actually think it will drop very quickly on route and dont see it as something players will gravitate to) so why pay 8k for a Beatles when I could spend that on a known fun earner like a remake or much less for a different Stern pro? other flip side is for similar money I could buy a JJPPOTC for route and I personally would always rather spend route dollars supporting some new innovation and those that are developing that innovation. I think JJPPOTC could do just as well as Beatles and likely be a long term route earner (like Woz and DI have proven to be)
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Oh yeah, that's just what Stern WANTS you to think.
how do we know the game comes with working coin mechs?!
I would be more concerned with working code to accept coins
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Do you REALLY believe that?
What was the last Stern game to take a $1500 drop? WWELE? Xmen LE?
It's extremely uncommon. These games are not going to be trading at 6500 in a year. No freakin' way.
In the end, it will turn out to be a sought after collectable. I doubt they depreciate much, if at all.
Yeah, I see a PRO with over 1600 games made (a lot for most Sterns) but at LE price point.
I think 6500 is a likely drop point on the secondary market IF they really sell all 1600 golds. I personally still think there is a distinct possibility that they will only build 700 golds and the second run does not happen or happens in a small number to just meet distributor demand.
Beatles is the topic of the now, but like everything else it will be largely forgotten when the next batch of titles come out. I see much less discussion on Beatles than would be expected/compared to other new releases also. Lastly, I see plenty of golds available for sale still. This title is not as hot as many would like you to believe.
IF they sell to the home Beatles collector for 8k, then there will be plenty available on the secondary in a couple years.
20% drop is the new norm on new removed from box/lightly used high dollar games.
Quoted from J85M:s LEs and SLEs that have been put up for sale have sold for more than there original NIB cost.
yes, be we are not talking about a LE or SLE here... We are talking about a pro model with over 1600 of them to be made.
Quoted from cottonm4:I keep reading all you write and I don't read much about you not liking the pin. Rather, you lean to the issue of pricing and how everybody is getting bent over with Stern's pricing. But Stern is pricing for all it can get; Stern does not owe me a living, or a pinball machine, so I get the pricing. That's business.
Stern is looking for the early adopters. The ones with money. The ones with money to burn. The ones who have to have the newest. Or the latest. Or the units where only 10 were made in the color of red. Gauging the motivations, or I.Q.s, of the early adopters could turn into a long discussion.
Stern is looking for those buyers who bought the first ball point pens in the 1945 and paid $12.50 per pen for the privilege. At today's prices that $12.50 pen would cost around $170.00 !
After the early adopters are satisfied, prices may soften and we can pick over the scraps. That is capitalism.
And it has been my experience that those who are focused on the price are the ones who want it the most.
I am not sure how I would really like the pin till I actually play one. I like the theme, I like the beatles, the art falls in the good enough department, and this is the first music theme Stern game where I even listen to the band.
How it shoots will be big and the intergration of the spinning disk could go either way from what I have seen thus far.
You are 100% spot on that price is the issue. Stern can and should make money, but making money and greed are 2 very different things IMHO. This is a cash crab and they have surely not found the top.
Even if they needed to add on a grand for the Beatles license (hint: they did not but they will claim they did) then I could possible talk myself into it. At $2500 up tick for a baseline pro model, my money will stay put.
Quoted from iceman44:Come on Snowman!
I never really cared about how much money Stern makes or doesn't. The Platinum and Diamond is ridiculous but hey if that's what some people want then so be it.
Pricing for any pin these days is really kind of "sad" but i get what you are saying.
I just really like pinball and what got me was the videos and talking to a couple of people I respect that did play it.
My wife commented on it too so that played a factor (although not much of one )
I looked at all the pros and cons, argued with myself, and then made the flip decision! Fickle and impulsive.....
it is all good!
I hope you love it. And when you don't, I will give you 6k for it
Quoted from jgentry:Is the first 1000 sold out to distros really that hard for some of you guys to comprehend? Its really strange how the people that claim that they want no part of this game are the ones constantly obsessing over it.
not hard to understand, but neither is math...
1000/1964 = .5091 = 50.9% sold out to distributors
Checking with the distributors I have called, 100% of them have Golds readily available (as clearly seen there are even 4 ads on Pinside right now)
We are more than a week in and it appears less that 25% of the total run is actually 'sold out' to real customers. Keep in mind this game is "limited", "half are going overseas", and "there are millions of Beatles fans buying these up quickly". All that despite this being the longest real sell out of a Stern game that we have seen since WWE.
Quoted from jgentry:Doesn't seem that way. You seem pretty worried about this stuff. Just and FYI, the first sign that you are lost is when you are trading upvotes with whysnow.
2 people are laughing our asses off right now, I can assure you that.
TAMOORE is spitting fire this morning. Has me cracking up, combined with your replies
Quoted from jwilson:This thread should be pinned so new people can understand the Pinside Progression.
1. Stern releases teaser
2. Frothy hateful bile spews forth
3. “I will never buy this [overpriced/ugly] game and Stern should personally apologize to me for existing”
4. People play game
5. “Oh that looks fun, Stern take all my monies”
6. Complaining that 1.04 code means nothing and game is unfinished
7. Discovering the newest QC issue (ghosting inserts, pealing decals, fault node boards, you name it) and acting surprised
8. Club thread started so the owners can hype without being subject to any critique
9. Game #1 on Pinside top 100 list due to owners giving a 10
10. Hater then give the game 4s to drop the rank
11. First owner sells HUO game with 12 plays on it
12. When/what is the nest Stern game to be built?
Quoted from hassellcastle:And this is a reason so many GOOD people have left this site over the years.
Pinside user base continues to grow year over year. Just so you know...
Quoted from hassellcastle:As for myself. Yes, I'm a distributor..yes, I'm selling the Beatles Pinball.
we know, it really did not even need to be said 
Quoted from iceman44:Don’t know who but it was contracted out. Animations and I assume code updating and integration
Since Levi floated it out there I’m just confirming it
that does not bode well for getting any sort of updates (1.04 or not, they will be needed after games are delivered and people get plays to find the bugs)
Quoted from TheLaw:Why not? I would think paying someone else to do the work Stern obviously can't do quick enough sounds great to me.
what is the last externally contracted code they had on a game?
I would think that since this is "sold out" and "not for us" that 1.04 is already considered done or close to it???
I hope that is not the case but if the majority of these games are going to non-pinball people then I see little incentive for them to pay for additional code from a contractor.
Quoted from PinMonk:Beatles store seems to have hit a wall with their second 10 pack. Haven't sold a single gold out of it for days, stuck at 7 left (the amount of golds in every 10 pack). The first block of 10 had steady progress selling a gold almost daily.
crazy part is that they are selling the platinum and diamonds for the same price as gold. Anyone looking to make some quick cash should just set an auto buy when they finally get through these 7 golds and open up another 10 pack.
Someone will get that next diamond for 10k and then be able to bank a quick 10k on the flip...
I gotta say, despite all the false hype of being "sold out" it is pretty obvious where sales are at on this game.
Bring on Muensters! I am told it is phenomenal and I gotta admit if some of what I am told it in the game pans out, it sounds pretty cool!
Quoted from Psw757:I just don’t see this considering there will only be 804 in North America. If we were talking a standard cornerstone game I agree 1000%
Bm66 is probably the closest example to this and Beatles is even in smaller quantities overall. BM66 has been very stable even increased in most instances.
Not saying I think this will dramatically increase in price but I think it will remain stable.
I think WNBJM and PBRCC are closer comparisons. Sure you have the beatles theme but aside from that they are all novelty games.
Quoted from DrJoe:How's the Beatles a novelty game??? Seriously?? It's based on Seawitch which is an awesome game, has extras features and a popular theme. So is TNA a novelty game too?
priced high, niche market, "not for pinheads", not conventional, etc...
Quoted from JodyG:Show me all these $4400 TWD's, GOTG's and GOT's please. They only get that low if they have been driven like they were stolen on route somewhere.
funny, I picked up a local HUO TWDpro for 4200 3 month ago.
they seem to have gone up a hundred bucks or so since they went out of production, but before the one I grabbed I passed one along to a friend for 3850.
picked up a GOTpro with colorDMD and a few other mods for 4200 a month before that.
Quoted from Hawks:Of course all 3 models are LE’s
No matter how stripped back people may think they are
100 diamond
250 platinum
1614 gold
No more ever made, all genuine LE’s
That is not a le, this is an le... (said in mc dundee voice)
image (resized).jpgI honestly have to laugh when someone thinks 1600 pf anything is limited, esp in pinball where Stern rarely even sells 2000 total games for any title.
You always know the hypebeasts when they are pumping on beatles being limited.
Quoted from yancy:It is limited. Not sure how you can debate that. I think you're conflating the definition of "limited" with "rare." Star Light is rare, Beatles is limited. Some games are both, yet still undesirable (the Mafia comes to mind).
Yeah, yeah... you know what i meant. 1600 of any modern game is false hype when using the word "limited"
I see it in the poster collecting world also. Sure, it has a set edition sizeof a predetermined number, but that does not mean squat from a collectibility standpoint unless tha number is low enough to actually create a sell out and secondary market demand.
beatles can't even sell out the first time around, hell there are five advaerts for sale at the bottom of this page and each of those distros has a quantity they are still trying to sell.
Quoted from kermit24:I watched a good deal of the Buffalo stream. I am not sure what I was expecting, but it was just ok for me. Positives are that its a very fast game with simple rules. Beatles fans will love it. Pinheads with larger collections may be ok. I don't think it would have awesome staying power in a smaller (2-4) game collection. When you think about what $8,000 will buy you in pinball, it is a tough one to justify.
I had similar thoughts. Tried to see if I could convince myself on it.
In general, I will make a trip to play one on route (possibly the one at Tilt in Minn?) but I dont think this is anywhere near the value at 8k for home use.
I also was evaluating for route and I dont think this will do well on route because it is a tough game. Given the pricepoint it will need to be at same coin drop price as any other new game ($1 or more in most cases) and the general route player is not going to get the value for the buck. As a route player, I would spend time on pretty much every other game that is $1/play after the pinhead novelty wears off from the first session.
I would be better off buying a Seawitch and pricing it at .50 per play for route.
Quoted from Psw757:I think there is a fine line for the casual players on location with games being too complex and not getting repeated plays. My hunch tells me this will out earn a WOZ, Hobbit, POTC, SW Stern and all these other complex difficult scoring rule games. I own POTC and it’s a fantastic beautiful game but most of my friends aren’t pinheads and they don’t like it, they all say WTF do I need to do and what just happened... sometimes less is more, the game while simple to understand is difficult to achieve the goals which keeps players coming back.
Of course this is just my observation. 8k is a lot of coin for it though.
from experience, it would be hard pressed to better than many of those titles.
I hear lots of people bag on JJP games on route and say they are too complex for player, but reality is that JJP games function largely like classic B/W games. They wont be your biggest earner out of the gate, but they are steady, solid players, and always in to top 30% of games. In other words they tend to be worth it over the long run.
Stern games in opposition make a big splash the first few month/s and then tend to drop off quickly after the general player base is on to the next new shiny object. The rarity is a Stern that does well over the longer term.
Quoted from ASOA:Seawitch will earn more then Beatles?
I get that pins are very location specific. And it only takes a few customers to fall in love with a game for it to be profitable to the operator. However none of my locations would choose a seawitch over a Beatles. Most people out there enjoy the look, feel and sounds of new technology.
100% will be more profitable.
3000 for a NICE seawitch. Set it at .50 per play. Lets imagine it gets 100 plays a month for easy math. $50 a month and will do that every month for the next 12 months. $600 a year. At the end of the year Seawitch is still worth 3000 resale (likely more based on current trends). 20% return on the money.
Beatles is 8000. Set it at $1 per play. Lets imagine it gets 1.5 the plays for the first 3 months, so $150 a month. Then is will drop to $120 a month or morely likely $100-120, so say $1600 in coin a year. At the end of the year that Beatles is worth 6500-7000 resale. Sell it and you made $100-600. Even is you imagine it sells for more after a year or does spectacular... you are looking at 6-12% return.
The math works out in favor of the Seawitch and if I ma being honest, experience shows the Seawitch will do better than my estimate and be worth more than what you bought it a year later.
Quoted from ASOA:We operate completely different types of locations. I'm glad it works for you but in my venues it could not be further from the truth. My pins earn 150-800 per week. Most are in new Family Entertainment Centers on Card swipe system charging 1.00 to 2.50 per swipe. When you have a new arcade and you put in something like a seawitch it just does not play well. Now if you are in a Bar location known for pinball perhaps that is a different scenario. Just my opinion. I'm going Beatles All day long over seawitch.
my numbers were just hypothetical for an example. I would not talk actual numbers.
I also have no desire to route games in family fun centers or swipe systems. Largely as I prefer to put out games like Seawitch which players wont see anywhere else. I dont doubt you would go Beatles, esp since you sell them and I don't, lol.
Quoted from jgentry:All the information that we really need to know.
they are still relative dummy
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Then why are you buying new games at all? Why not just do all EMs and early Digitals? These games are dirt cheap and will pay for themselves in a few months according to your business model. Why spend $3,000 on a seawitch when you can get a Toledo for $500, or a Buck Rogers for $800?
Or is Seawitch just a huge earner?
TLDR version, we know you struggle with math so I can explain it below.
More appropriate version >>>in short, this is a hobby.
It takes LOTS of time to rebuild and get any game route ready. The older the machine the longer it often takes and more effort/skill. However, I also take pride in offering these games up to be played. How often will you see a Seawitch on route to be played? (I see 10 on the map... and only 1 of those is actually open to the public each day)
We have ~50 games on route at 5 locations and have done this all as a hobby in the past 5.5 years. We put it all right back in to the growth of the hobby.
Gotta be smart with what you get but also have the ability to make dumb decisions for the fun of pinball sometimes.
You need to understand that Beatles at 8000 will likely do the same as the next Pro at 5500. That is your simple answer from an economics standpoint.
Pro makes $1600 and then you sell it in a year for less depreciated value that the beatles. Say 5k sale price. That gets you back to a 20% return for the up front cost. With a NIB game you still have work put in to get it set up and keep it running, but less effort then a full rebuild of an old game.
Time/Effort/Up front cost all go in to a decision like that.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:but bottom line is old games don't make money on location.
there is a reason when we put out a good old games, they stay out for years... They earn and earn well (pound for pound).
JMHE
Quoted from jgentry:I completely get this, even though your resale prediction for Beatles is ridiculously low. I dont get this argument when you turn around and say jjp games are a good route investment though. They loose more in resale and have higher maintenance cost. Once again you contradict yourself.
I dont think the resale prediction is low. High dollar games are losing around 15-20% even as HUO examples it seems. Some more and some less, but that is the average. No matter how nice you maintain a game on route, people expect a bigger bargin due to that lack of "huo" moniker.
JJP games (well not all, but WOZ and DI) have proven to not drop off in play for months/years. If you dont have to sell a game after 12 months, then both your effort and rate of depreciation slow. JJP games cost too damn much, but if they earn for the long haul and players drop coins then they make sense from my perspective. I am not sure where you get higher maintenance costs from? Parts are the same/similar for anything that may need replacement and comparatively any issue has taken less effort on our end w JJP compared to others. JJP games also have much fewer issues on route IME.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Based on your hypothetical numbers and both games being in pristine shape it is more like a tie...
Beatles - purchase for $8k and sell in two years for $6k ... it costs you $2k.
Seawitch - purchase & restore for $3k and sell in two years for $2k ... it costs you $1k.
So what about earnings with Beatles at $1 and Seawitch at 50 cents? Lets assume 50 plays per week, so the annual revenue generated is $2.5k or $1.25k.
Beatles makes you -$2k + $2.5k = $.5k
Seawitch makes you -$1k + $1.25k = .25k
both are break even at best. Of course the big assumption is that both would be played only 50 times per week. If you location saw this little traffic, you'd be out of business.
no, your faulty assumption is the resale on Seawitch. That is going up in price over time. It is a used game and already took the depreciation hit 2 decades ago.
Worst case you are selling it for the same as you paid.
Not my experience at all for jjp games. Maybe we got lucky? Maybe we are awesme techs, lol. Jjp games are built well and hold up ime. Few small things but nothin the scale of others.
Biggest headache to date on any NIB game was GOTG pro, shit code combined with corrupt node board and super bad customer service to get the node boards all figured out over multiple months. Had stern service rep end a call whileI was actively working on the game and giving feedback, measurements to help them diagnose a larger scale problem. It was 5pm and his day was over... finally got it figured out but went thorugh multiple node boards and months of an intermittently broken game. Uggh that was frustrating.
But i degress. Concerning beatles, yes the pricepoint just won't work out for me on route. Bummer cause I wish it could. Pro price and I am on board, but Won't fall for this psycology trick to try and get peopleto buy a pro at premium pricepoint just for the fun of it.
Quoted from cottonm4:To continue playing the one-data-point extrapolation game, last week there where 5 different vendors with ads for Beatles for sale at the bottom of the page. Today, if you look, there are only two vendors with a Beatles for sale. A look in the market place ads ads shows only two venders with Beatles for sale.
If you are going to extrapolate, please at least use real data instead of made up numbers to push your agenda.
2 weeks ago there were only 2 vendors on pinside selling, last week there were 4, this week there are 9
Sorry I dont have screenshots of the previous weeks but here is current showing 9
https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/stern-the-beatles/market
The number looking to sell a pin "not meant for pinhead" on the #1 pinball forum is a great data point and it makes it pretty clear that more people are trying to sell now and looking for ANY customers (even ones not in their supposed demographic for this title).
Simply put, people have gotten tired of dealing with distributors masquerading as Pinheads to hype games on here (i.e. FUN) and then they tell lies like "this is limited" and "only 800 in US" "buy now or miss out", only to have people turn around and re spout the falsehoods as fact.
Quoted from cottonm4:You gotta love it. First, we go "it will never sell" to "oh shit" half of them are going for export. There is going to be a shortage in the U.S.
Seems plenty think this reskin looks fun to play, obs cool theme, and nice art package and code, but all have been clear the price is BS and a money grab. It is rightly a kick in the junk for any passionate pinhead that likes the beatles, older style games, etc... to not only have the huge pricepoint but then all the false hype around here.
Between you, Levi, and hasslecassle... these should have been long gone the first day they were available (just like every real LE of a good theme that Stern has done in the past 5 years)
Instead the facts we know to be true:
-Only the first ~964 are bring produced at this time and were sold as 10 packs to distributors. The remaining portion of the edition is supposedly made sometime in 2019 when there is demand (if? there is demand).
-Beatles store which markets to the demographic target for this pin sold its first 10 pack quickly, but now has only sold 2 golds out of the 2nd ten pack and sales have slowed. Worth note that the Prem and LE versions were also sold for 10k on Beatles store.
-Distributors are now marketing more specifically to pinheads since the game is not selling as well as predicted to Beatles maniacs. Call any distributor that bought a 10 pack and they have stock on hand currently. I dont remember the last 'limited' game where this has happened 2 plus weeks post on sale and typically most of a hot game the limiteds are sold out the first day.
number 9_number 9 (resized).JPG
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Let me add my own fake data point: pretty sure that greater than 5 percent of
The people in this actual thread have either bought Beatles or are “considering it.”
seems like a good guesstimate.
5% of the number currently posted in this thread would only be 21.65. Seems like a good guess that 22 Beatles have sold to those that have posted here.
Granted, you claimed it was already sold out and people ought to act quick? Yet here they all are, still lots for sale...
I will likely make it to play one of these later this week. Excited to drop a few quarters in it and play some games for myself
Maybe then I can hype like you Levi.
Quoted from Colsond3:I was going through my misc plastics tonight and found this. Anybody want it for their Beatles game? Better than a topper!
[quoted image]
Ummmm. I’ll take it for my seawitch
Quoted from MapleSyrup:Hey look, Cyclopes!!
[quoted image]
The most rare of the whole room!
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Put a Beatles next to a SeaWitch on route. $1 a play for Beatles, $.50 for SeaWitch. I’ll bet that the Beatles blows SeaWitch away in coin drop. It wouldn’t be close.
sure thing. You have 8k to give me for the Beatles?
Seawitch enters the stable this week and will be route ready as soon as you hook me up with that 8000...
People dont seem to understand that for 8k, I can buy a brand new munsters and refurbish a Seawitch.
Munsters and seawitch will for sure out earn Beatles.
Bonus that at the end of routing, the Munsters will be worth nearly what I buy it for and the Seawitch will be worth more.
Beatles on the other hand will drop 15-20% for resale.
Quoted from Psw757:Another very good point raised here that I believe 100%.
If I’m not mistaken Gary Stern recently said in an recent interview that most games they make are made in quantities 3-4x greater than the maximum number of Beatles machines to be built. That means titles like AC/DC,Maiden, Metallica, etc... there are 6-8 thousand of them out there in this big world.
odd number since they have also said on numerous occasions that they are building around 10-12000 games each year.
2018 gave us GOTG, Maiden, and DP as major cornerstone games.
Stern also built 100 Primus, the first 1000 Beatles, 200 Supreme, and any number of the previous games still active on the sale list.
Reality is that on average a cornerstone game is likely 2000 in total number. Great games in Stern world are 3500 and maybe 4000 in total edition but those are over multiple years of production.
If you pay attention, you will see that Stern is constantly telling half truths and inflating numbers on edition size. It seems to come mainly from 1 or 2 people in the organization.
Quoted from Psw757:Doubtful Beatles drops at all in value much if at all. I’m referring to the Gold edition. No way to put a real value on the other two at the moment.
Why would someone pay 8k on the Munsters without seeing it first and if the theme is a total turd in their opinion?
Different strokes for different folks and this is ok, there is something for everyone in this great hobby!
I know you are defensive since you bought one, but pretty much EVERY high dollar game is dropping 15-20% on the secondary. Beatles is no different and likely will drop more since they are selling the Pro model for 8000 when normal Pro games are sold at 5500 delivered.
I have no idea where you are pulling 8k for Munsters from??? Pros should be the same as every other Pro from what I have heard.
Quoted from Psw757:Not defensive just stating my opinion as are you. We are allowed to do that here aren’t we?
sure thing!
it came off as defensive, mainly cause once you jumped in it seems to have shifted that way.
That is also typical of every new high dollar game. The owners are understandably defensive of likely resale predictions. Games are rarely kept forever, so it is something we all often have to consider and noone like knowing they are renting that game for 2k for a year worth of play.
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:Even with the resale model, if the game earns half of $8k back you would still sell it for $6k in my estimation. So $2k profit or more based on play.
Math still does not work out for me in that situation. Sounds like you have some great earning locations!
Munsters is likely to earn as well as Beatles (or very close), costs 68% as much and will resale with likley no loss (if Stern keeps raising Pro prices each year then recent games tend to hold more). The resale has to come into the equation IME.
Sounds like your locations do so well that resale is not much of a factor. That is awesome!
Quoted from Psw757:Only time will tell how it really pans out. I’m stoked to get mine this week and hopefully other buyers are as well.
If they aren’t selling and there are only a handful of us buying, the secondary market will be pretty scarce and will likely keep the price a little higher than others on the used market. Again, just my hunch and a 50/50 guess.
yup, only time will tell.
Enjoy your game!
Quoted from fosaisu:Makes sense. Premium priced games (be it Stern, JJP, whatever) will probably never make the ROI of a good old Stern Pro on route. If you’re looking to maximize profits no reason to stray from that model unless there’s some non-monetary factor that leads you to want to route a pricier model (prestige, site owner really wants one, etc.)
yeah, lots of "other reasons"
Quite often it is because we personally like a game and frankly it is all hobby so we dont really have to aim for a profit (moreso just dont be a dumbass decisions)
TBT, routing pinball is never about the money unless you have some sort of really lucrative deal or a primo location, but those seem to be few and far between.
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:We bought 4 Beatles and I think 12 Deadpool's. If our contract calls for it we do it.
How many games in total do you have on route?
Quoted from jgentry:A routed stern pro is going to take a 15-20% loss just like any other routed game. No one is going to buy a routed stern pro for the same price or nearly the same price as a NIB one.
no it won't
speaking from experience multiple times over. In the past, you could even sell a well maintained Stern Pro for more than you purchased it for.
MSRP has steadily gone up each year and people have been happy to pay secondary market prices on 2-3yo pins that are only a small amount less than CURRENT NIB prices. That means the inflated NIB has helped prop up the secondary on slightly older games.
Granted with saturation of the market as more and more new titles arrive and at a quicker pace... that seems to be changing.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Great. So why are we supposed to accept your proclamation that Beatles will lose 20 percent of its value? Sounds like horseshit to me.
You just love tossing these numbers salads and hoping we all just get bored of trying to sort through the cabbage. Over and over and over again.
data has shown that the higher the original sale price the father the initial decline on resale.
Look at countless LEs and Premiums. Let us know when you are tired of schilling and want to back to the table and talk like a normal person.
Are you done with the interview process at Stern? What position was it again you are looking to be hired in to?
Quoted from jgentry:Why would anyone scraping buy care about the cost of NIB pinball?
Now Whysnow is making money selling stern pros that are routed for 3 years. one moment the market is tanking and the bubble is bursting for stern. The next moment you can route a game for 3 years, make 3 years worth of money on it, and sell it for more then the original asking price.
your shtick has gotten really boring also. You seem incapable of reading an entire post before twisting it to fit you broken agenda. Pay attention...
Quoted from Whysnow:Granted with saturation of the market as more and more new titles arrive and at a quicker pace... that seems to be changing.
Quoted from cjmjmm2006:I bought a few more Beatles for location. We will probably go up to 6.
[quoted image]
Sweet!
If they end up not doing great after a while and you want to move one along for another operator, im your huckleberry
Your locals are damn lucky!
Quoted from cottonm4:You are in with a bang. People are clamoring for a Seawitches all over the place and you mange to snap your fingers and a Seawitch falls from the sky With a nice looking play field, too. Mine is a beater; I'm jealous.
Interesting that your back box mount is black. Mine is light blue, like the cabinet.
I was fortunate that a collector I have made good deals to in the past had one and took care of me for a nice price.
Missing displays, no legs, and not booting, but will clean up to be nice
I cant stomach a Beatles, but I plan to get this one running and enjoy it for years to come.
Quoted from Psw757:I predict It will be overwhelming in favor of the Beatles.
depends on the type of people there but i would guess it is more casuals. In that case, theme wins.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Play better! Haha. When we streamed it at Pincinnati we were playing with some solid players. Bubble level was way at the top, so I say pushing 7 degrees probably.
that will decrease lateral movement and hence reduce side drains in preference of SDTM drains. esp w/ the geometry of the slings/ outlanes.
This game is likely best played at 6.2-6.5, just like seawitch seems to be.
Quoted from yancy:After watching a few streams and playing it in person, the music repetition was really starting to grate on me, and now I see why:
[quoted image]
That's just over 11 minutes total. I still really like how the game looks and shoots, but I'd have to turn the volume way down (off?) if I owned one.
wow! so 3 under 2 min songs and 6 at under a minute?!!!??? WTF?
Why does a license restrict to something like this? It does not dot anything positive for the product.
Also, can this be hacked with pinball browser to put in full songs?
Quoted from fosaisu:Wouldn't the game code be looking for songs (or portions of songs) of X length, so you could replace each song with a song of the same length, but you couldn't swap in longer songs or increase the total number of songs that will play?
if that is the case, Stern would be very smart to just double up (or triple) each song in a single track. That way someone can edit in browsers.
I love all the guys that have never even had a single game on route telling us what works and what does not, how we should measure success or not, when to sell and when to buy...
I seriously encourage all of you to take your passion and bright ideas out to the streets. Go buy a Beatles and put it on location. Report back as you go.
It is a ton of fun to put games out on route and try to help build a local community of more pinheads! Worst case scenario you learn a few things and have some fun.
Quoted from Psw757:I think we’ve now had at least 3 operators chime in between the 3 Beatles threads that are active and there is one common message, it’s out performing expectations and out earning some more modern games.
I think between these 3 operators they bought 10+ Beatles machines of various flavors so if there is a accurate body of work to gauge earnings off of, this is pretty good.
Unique machines that not everyone has do have the ability to draw people in that normally wouldn’t otherwise come out to play on location. I would think this data would be hard to quantify.
The Helicon Brewing operator talked about this over on the JJP Pirates thread a while back. There were many new people coming in just to seek that one game out.
Interesting stuff
PA is a hot bed for pinball! You should put yours on route!
Quoted from cottonm4:Well shit, man, everybody here has been telling Stern how to run its business. What makes you think you would be immune
very true.
I just want more pinball, so I think everyone shoudl buy a beatles and route it
Esp someone close to me so I can come play it!
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:So buy one and route it! Or at least play it, that way we can take your opinions on the game more seriously.
closest one is 2hr drive. no time currently.
I do plan to get some time on one this weekend.
Quoted from ASOA:Pinstadiums are great for me as well. We get there are some people who do not care for them. No reason to downvote someone for stating their honest opinion.
A downvote is a simple and effective way to say you disagree with someone's post (opinion or not)
If you have not realized, quite a few of us think Pinstadiums are blindingly bright, cause zebra stripes, and are severely over priced for what goes into them (in short, detract from any game and are junk). Many are sick of them being shoved down the hobbies throat from their marketing tactics (first through paid reviews, then paid sponsorship of IFPA, paid advertising slots on podcasts, and the constant barrage on Pinside from a select few that add them to every game).
Feel free to give a down vote instead of posting. It is a simple and effective way of disagreeing with a post.
Back on topic, can any Beatles owners talk more about game play, code, what would you like to see in future updates, etc?
So far what I am getting is that there are lots of airballs, pf are dimpling, spinning disc not much fun/used too much, song clips are super short, etc...
Would rather hear what modes are the most fun/challenging and why?
What modes are the most lucrative for scoring?
Best shot/worst shot?
What you want added in code (if code updates come?)?
Any adjustments you have made?
Are modes stackable? stackable with multiball? etc...
Quoted from RebelGuitars:No airballs here.
[quoted image]
great looking modification! nicely done!
Quoted from Psw757:The game isn’t dimpling any more then my JJP Potc and since I cut a piece of lexan for over the middle bank of drops, zero airballs.
Got notified last night that stern has made a kit to address this and are shipping ASAP.
Song clips really aren’t that short, I don’t even think I’ve heard one loop yet becasue most modes are 30 seconds long or shot completion I think. You can lengthen song modes and number of required shots to make more difficult.
Loops and spinners are a ton of fun as are all the drops.
I’m hoping for two things in future code, first being some sort of super wizard mode if all modes are played and completed and what we have now is just play them all and you get hard day’s night multi ball. Kind of silly for game to start from beginning after. Add the super wizard and if achieved, game over when time up.
Second thing I would like to see is one more song added for main gameplay with taxman and can’t buy me love. Song mix is pretty damn good as is but one more in the main gameplay would greatly reduce the chance of hearing these twice in one game.
They did a nice job on this one, speakers sound great too!
thanks and great owners perspective. I really hope they add a real wizard mode for the game. You guys that plopped down the cash deserve to have something to really shoot for.
Quoted from hassellcastle:Haters gonna hate
Hypers gonna hype. Sorry but when you are selling the game and make a crazy profit of every single one you don't have a leg to stand on calling anyone a hater and it looks really tacky.
Quoted from MapleSyrup:Holy Crap, Hilton! Those are good scores!
Were the rubbers installed on the outlanes? I’ve put over 100 games on mine and I have yet to crack 6 Million... and I’m WAY better than you! Ha, I kid.
As for the value discussions... Whatevs Dude. Your parameters are all over the map.
For me, in a home environment, it’s awesome. Everybody seems to enjoy it. Even my wife is playing it, and enjoying it.
Personally, I’ve been hooked on TWD again. Horde (with Pre/Le GI and a shaker) might be the best mode in all of pinballdom. If you disagree... you’re wrong.
No Outland rubbers. I was just on today. GC and then GC again back to back. No slouches in Chicago either so I think those are solid scores.
Game needs more depth as I made the end three times in 20 games. Hopefully code gets a bit more to shoot for. Honestly it is really fun to shoot on route but being a mode based game instead of a points based game like og seawitch actually hurts it. After ‘beating ‘ the game three times in looses a little appeal for me.
Taxman. Beatlemania pretty much every other game as that seems to happen when you do good in any mode?
Taxman is completing all modes then starting wiz mode, correct That is what I did 3x in 20 jab games
Quoted from Psw757:You should have played Help jackpot raising mini wizard mode followed by Beatlemania MB and then assuming all modes reached a minimum of level 5 scoring then taxman mb.
How many extra balls were awarded? I think factory setting is unlimited which is crazy. I set mine to only 2.
My grand champ score is roughly 7 mil and the crazy thing isn’t it occurred on a game where I didn’t even get the wizard mode.
No extra balls. It was still on tourney setting from the launch part the previous day
Quoted from cottonm4:The observations of the/you better players continously drives home the possibilities that Stern is looking for that simpler pin that the average Joe who played very little pinball can enjoy without spending a fortune to learn the rules.
I am not a very good player fyi
3 weeks later
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:Wow. You've peaked my interest!
Before I place an order, is there anyone out there who was also a hater at announcement and remained one after actually playing Beatles?
only thing I hate is the price. Game is very fun.
I will caution that it needs more code, but sales seem very bad so I would assume WYSIWYG on this one.
Quoted from Riffbear:Who's coding the game?
someone said it was externally contracted? It appears they have not listed anyone attributed for code.
Only Gomez as design and Franchi for art.
Quoted from jfh:Its not about being cheap or being able to afford the game. I’ve bought some very expensive games NIB (Batman 66 LE) and have no problem paying top dollar for high end restorations or CQ quality games.
Beatles is a nice game but horribly overpriced for what it is. And that’s too bad. Because if it was priced more in line for what it is, I think it would sell pretty well. At current prices, it’s doomed to WWE-like sales levels.
Let's be honest though... 4k is being a bit dramatic.
It would be long sold out if Golds were priced at Pro prices. I think 6500 and the majority would be gone.
8k is just too damn much.
Quoted from RebelGuitars:Special When Lit podcast posted these pics on Facebook from a visit to Stern yesterday.
[quoted image][quoted image]
looks like they have doubled the production run of the total golds thus far
I predict less than 300 golds get built in total at the rate they are going. It will be WWE levels done based on what we have seen. Hopefully Stern learned a lesson with this pricing model, but I'm guessing they will blame it on the single level pf design or "I guess Beatles license is finally too old"...
Quoted from ASOA:First run of Golds were 700 and they sold out completely. They are now in the second phase of production. They have been on the assembly line all week. I like most people would have liked for the Beatles to be priced lower. As a consumer I would like ALL pinball machines to be priced lower. However if it was themed an unlicensed theme this pin would not be half as desirable. I love the music, sound effects, call outs, animations and art package. Bottom line is theme helps sales tremendously. The Beatles license is very expensive. I would encourage people to not overlook this game. I was shocked on how much I enjoy it.
I know you are a distributor, but you must see how trying to exaggerate the sales on a title that seems to be obvious to everyone but those selling it (lol) does not look good on you. There is ZERO chance anywhere close to 700 golds are sold out. I understand that distributors like to claim "sold out" to pump the hype but just because distributors may have bought the first 700 (that appears to be false also) they are far from sold out.
EVERY and I mean EVERY distributor I know of that bought a 10 pack is sitting on multiple golds in inventory. Call around as many are offering deals now also.
The game is very fun, nobody is arguing against that.
The license is a great license, nobody is arguing against that.
The sales are pitiful and production is very low. "sold out" is merely marketing hype and it makes you look silly (esp on a pinball forum; sure use that line on joe blow that walks in the door... but you are insulting the hobbyist intelligence if you think that is working here).
Quoted from snaroff:Are you claiming Stern ISN"T in the second phase of production? That was ASOA's very specific assertion.
Arguing about the definition of "sold out" is ridiculous, since it applies to any title. The most meaningful definition of "sold out" given Stern's business model (of only selling exclusively through distributors) is "sold out" to distributors. That's all Stern needs to "crank up" the line to produce more games. If they didn't have distributors requesting more allocation, I sincerely doubt Stern would be starting a second phase of production.
Stern may be building 25 more to satisfy the next set of platinums. Also may bemaking more golds fomr the first claimed batch as i don't belive they sold anywhere near the original planned batch for round 1.
WARNING, tldr
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:What's your source?
my source is the same as ASOA... you just pull a WAG and post it up.
However, my WAG actually:
1. looks at the numbers claimed to be sold by distributors with us all knowing that many of them flat out lie to push sales and then looking at all the other information out there. Watching the behaviors over the past few months of these salesmen has been telling in its self as some become desperate to sell stock.
2. Takes everything that the sales team at Stern says with a grain of salt. It is their job to sell and they have been shown time and time again to lie (call it half truths if that makes you feel better, but they spew BS much of the time > not personal as it is just their jobs). Watch their decisions to delay MUN post holiday in an effort to push Beatles.
3. look at the number recorded on public sites and correlate that with other games and numbers after a similar amount of time.
4. watch the hype here on the #1 collector site anywhere. Hype is all but dead here aside from a handful of owners (rightfully excited as the game is fun) and the various distributors (both ones that are open about being distributors and the few that post anonymously here but are in fact sellers/resellers)
5. Call around and talk to distributors. They all have them for sale, they still have them for sale, and the prices have dropped. You dont drop a price in order to sell an item that is supposedly flying off the shelves.
It really does not take much common sense to come to this accurate conclusion. If these golds are selling like gangbusters, where the hell have they gone to, lol. Some mysterious pool of NIB pinball buyers?
ASOA's WAG is that he is a distributor without bias... Keep in mind he wont tell us any actual data like how many he bought, how many he has sold, what prices he sold his diamond and platinums for and now what the golds are selling/ not-selling for.
Quoted from Bingovit:I've been following this topic a few weeks and what a lot of hate you put into this Beatles thread, Hilton?!
I actually love the Beatles. I think the game is super fun (I played the 2 they had in Chicago). I think the theme is great also (finally a band theme I like).
Dont misinterpret my despise for distributors on a collectors forum spewing BS and false hype as hate for the game or them personally. I just think it is important that there is a voice of reality to counter the salesman pitches from some on here with the constant hype train.
Passion for the hobby is not hate. I dont want to see any of my fellow hobbyists fall for the fake hype. Beatles is a fun game, but priced much too high and the sales mirror that conclusion.
A little reality for you on what numbers are public
https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/stern-the-beatles/owners
58 Golds can be accounted for (both private and public).
Most will accept that Pinside represents 30-50% of the public pinball collector world in numbers of games. PInside seems to be more heavily US/ NA based in users, but still useful.
You can of course cross reference with pinball owners which tends to be more overseas and find 5 gold owners.
Some may say that Pinside is a small percentage. Reality is that public locations are well accounted for here and on pinball map (total of 49)
For a small comparative, go look at WWE which is well accepted as being the worst selling modern Stern. There are 76 locations (pinball map) and 33 private owners. That means WWE is 2x the seller that Beatles currently is. Distributors will argue that WWE has been out longer, but we all know that the majority of game sales for any title happen in the first bolus in the first month prior and month post release. We are 5! months post announcement and 3 months post sales. Ample time for them to get out there.
need another comparison? How about Mustang, the widely accepted 2nd worse selling modern Stern. 100 locations and 83 owners.
Just stop buying into the false distributor hype on this title.
The clear reality is that the game was overpriced and the sales reflect it. This went over like a lead balloon and keep your eyes wide open when someone in sales tells you they are not biased (lol)
Own the game already?, GREAT! have me over to play. The thing is a blast IMHO!
Thinking of buying the game? awesome! just please understand the difference of salesguy hype and the reality of how many are sitting in back stock.
I believe that Stern "sold out" for the first run to distributors. They marketed this great by forcing distributors to buy a 10 pack to get in on the first run. Sold them on the hype and many distros cashed in big on the Diamond and platinum sales.
I believe that Stern is running some more in Jan because there are surely some distributors with customers that want this game and those distributors did not buy in for the first run for the 10 pack.
The reality is that Stern sells on hype to distributors and they in turn sell on hype.
Stern does not care if distributors are stuck with stock on a 10 pack and that shows as they run more games for new distro orders instead of telling Distros to sell their back stock to each other.
Quoted from cottonm4:OK. If you WAG looks at the numbers why are you having such a problem laying out the numbers you claim to see to bolster your position?
Give us some numbers, man.ASOA'S information would be considered proprietary, would it not? Perhaps Stern (a private company) , for whatever reason advises distributors to not talk about the numbers publicly. There is certainly no law that saying this can't happen.
And about the pool of NIB buyers, how many Beatles have been sold, to date, at The Beatles Store. 5? 10? 20? A lot? A few? As of this time, I don't recall anybody coming here to pinside saying they bought their copy from The Beatles Store. All we know when we visit The Beatles Store is at all 3 models are sold out for $10,000.00 each. How much is true and how much is BS? Again, we need numbers.Until you can bring some baseline numbers, I'm not sure I could be generous enough to consider you the voice of reality. Matter of fact, other than a couple of distributors that are here, I can't say I recall too many Stern sales reps coming to Pinside making pitches and breathlessly telling me I just have to buy one of these right now ! I do see the Beatles sale ads in the marketplace. You can ask me why this does not surprise me.
I would like to thank you for taking up the mantle to save me from myself; That is very altruistic of you. But somehow, I just cannot shake the thought that you are hoping to scare potential buyers away in an effort to collapse sales and prices you can slip in a sneak a few on the cheap. Everything you write is just screaming, "I want one of these so frigging bad".
BTW: What is "fake hype" ? If the vernacular for hype is BS, what is fake BS? Is that something like the dishonest truth, as opposed to the honest truth? Which leads to question of what is lacking in just using "truth" and "hype" to make a point. ??This paltry collection of numbers is only what you can see. How do you/will account for some pinsiders who keep their collections private? How many of those type of buyer/owners are on pinside with tight lips? And don't forget any numbers from The Beatles Store sales. And don't blow off buyers who make their purchase and just disappear. Some people are not interested in mixing it up
Damn! Those numbers just don't want to come. Do they? How many are sitting in back stock? That would definitely be a good bargaining chip to know.
Don't tell me what you think. Don't tell me what you feel. And and don't tell me what you believe. You think the moon is made of green cheese. You feel the moon is made of green cheese. And you believe the moon is made of green cheese. It's a free country. But I'm interested in what you know. Like numbers. That's something I can get behind.
By definition, you believe in something that cannot be proved. If I see two people and one is wearing a watch and the other is not, which one do you think I will be asking for the time? I'll take the guy who can look at his watch and tell me it is 12:33pm. All the other guy can do is tell me, " I believe it is around noon".Again, I don't care what you believe; Tell me what you know. Also, this statement contradicts everything you have been saying. First, you tell us that sales are abysmal but offer no proof, only conjecture.
But here you are saying," because there are surely some distributors with customers that want this game and those distributors did not buy in for the first run for the 10 pack."
Well, knock me over with a feather. Here are some new sales popping up by some people who are arriving late to the party. Imagine that. Here you are saying some new sales are coming on. Now, i'm not sure what to believe So, which is it? Are sales falling off a cliff? Or are new sales prospects coming on wanting to buy? You can't have it both ways.
You also preface your statement with "there are surely some distributors". Surely? How did you come up with "surely" ? How many distributors fall into your "surely" category? Here I am looking for numbers again. How many distributors fall into this...ah.. "surely" category? What makes you so sure there are any at all?Define the "hype" that Stern uses on its distributors, please. What kind of BS is it your distributor friends told you that Stern shovels at them? Are they getting the old, "you better shape up" stuff from Stern?
When in business, there is a lot of BS. A lot of confidence gaming going on. When you are in business, business is always good; Even when it not. Like the song says, "nobody wants you when you are down and out", and singing the blues. It's kind of like when you are not dating anybody. Here is your single self and you can't buy a date with a winning lotto ticket. But as soon as you do manage to get a girl to go out with you, here come all of her friends followed by a bevy of strange women just dying to go out with you. Everybody loves a winner.
People don't want to be the only one to buy this model of car that you can't move, but if you say you have sold 8, or 10, or ?? in the last two weeks, well that is what they now want to buy. So, yeah, there is hype. There is BS in sales. The toothpaste commercials will tell you their brand will make your teeth whiter; They won't tell you their brand will make your teeth white. So, you brush your teeth and see that your 9 shades of yellow have moved up the "whiter" scale to 8.9. There is hype in business. Deal with it.
This statement, "as they run more games for new distro orders instead of telling Distros to sell their back stock to each other."
That's a fool's errand. Distributors selling stock back to each other would amount to a bonanza for the shippers, don't you think? If I were a distributor and a fellow distro wanted me to take some inventory of his hands, someone is going to have to pay for the shipping to the 2nd destination and it ain't going to be me.
at no point in (resized).PNG 3 weeks later
Quoted from cottonm4:Did you finally buy a Beatles? How come you have not added it to your collection and goose the ownership number?
it is listed. Game is on location at IO Gaming Arcade Bar.
I would love to buy a personal game also, but it is not even worth the current drastically reduced prices they are being offered NIB. On route means it will slowly get paid down and frankly we make all sorts of stupid business decisions for the fun of being able to share new games with the local community
Quoted from cottonm4:Beatles a failure?
sales on Beatles are a complete failure. That is clear despite some people trying to claim otherwise as they hype the game because they own one or are a Stern schill. Prices NIB have dropped, Stern did not make the full run, and sales have no picked up at all. 3 in the past week shows how bad it is.
Quoted from cottonm4:It is all about perspective.
The fact that you want to compare a failure of a $10 album to the failure of a 8k pinball machine is well... not even worth comment of showing how out of touch some people are on this one.
Beatles is likely the worst selling modern stern of all time. Only possibly slightly better than WWE and the main Beatles sales are driven by the uber collectors that dumped big money on the platinum and diamonds to have something "collectible" lol
Quoted from snaroff:Is this because:
- Beatles fans don't have the cash?
- Beatles fans think pinball is for losers?
- Beatles fans have no clue a Beatles pinball was produced?
Most pinheads I know that have played it love it.
If you are correct, I think it's just a slow start out-of-the-gate (hasn't been out all that long).
I have no doubt Stern will build/sell the entire run of 1964 games.
I dont think it is any of those issues. I think the game is just TOO DAMN MUCH!
Even a Beatles fan with boatloads of money can do some high level internet searching to see that most brand new games are 3k cheaper and have more features.
The hard core collector fans have little interest in a base "gold" model when they already missed out on that "collector" (lol) diamond edition.
Everyone I talk to thinks the game is fun. Everyone I talk to thinks the game is too much $$$$.
Stern simply attempted to price gouge for the license and it backfired on total sales.
I believe the ONLY thing helping sales at all is that some people think the game is selling so bad it may be collectible from a pinhead perspective.
I dont think that is the case. I think even in limited numbers this game stands to lose another 1k on the secondary market when they pop up.
Quoted from snaroff:All are in the price range of Beatles Gold.
are you really using the most overpriced crap you can find on ebay as example that Beatles is fairly priced? seriously WTH?
Quoted from cottonm4:After two months of sales?
ummm.... Beatles was known and even announced on Pinside more than 5 months ago... Sales are 4 months in now...
I honestly can't believe how out of touch some of you are in your defense of a game that is obviously selling very poorly. At this stage I am guessing <50% of the total run gets made.
I dont know much... but I do know that Beatles sales are abysmally bad!
I am not sure why that seems to be so hard for some to grasp when the evidence is overwhelming and obvious?
Hell, even conversation of the game is all but dead on Pinside and has been aside from price discussion for the past 2 months.
People need to stop defending the game because they so obviously want it to be a collectible or not lose value. It will eventually settle at Pro pricing or slightly above (where it should have been priced form D1)
1 week later
Quoted from hassellcastle:To help with your study of who is buying. Here are some facts on my end to add to your stats.
I’ve sold 7 Beatles so far.
1 Diamond, 1 Platinum and 5 Gold.
None of my buyers have seen or heard of Pinside, I’m pretty sure of that. With the exception of 1 buyer, this is their first pinball purchase.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It’s a Rock n’ Roll themed pin of a band that has never been more well deserving of a pinball in decades. Complaints about its price now....wait until its sold out everywhere and out of production. Due to its fun game play..I definitely see this pin attaining it’s value over time.
Kudos to those that have already bought one. You purchased one while they were still affordable.
That post was not meant to drum up sales. I don’t need to. My Other Platinum looks to be sold this week. The game is selling well on its own.
If you wanna help us. Then give us some comparative numbers for time and sales of other games! You are one of the biggest sellers around and this seems like a really long time for you have sold so few games.
Quoted from cottonm4:Jay Cee Almighty, Hilton. I'm not selling shit. I couldn't care less of sales of other pins are, or are not.
I'm just making the observation that The Beatles is selling. Contrary to some who have been waving the "over priced it will never sell" flag, this pin is not listening to that brand of shit. It is selling.
Wow, learn how to read hypeboy. I was quoting hasslecastle whom is FUN, one of the biggest sellers as far as i know.
Beatles is a blast to play, but it is a complete and utter failure for sales.
If you want to do your weekly sales hype post then at least have some fun and compare it to Munsters. A game that has been available for a thrid of the time but sold twice as much in the firts month.
Beatles is selling all right... very very slowly
1 month later
Quoted from cottonm4:Since you will not or cannot reveal the source of your 900 units number that makes it suspect; it it like if you tell me you can walk on water then I want to see the picture.
That said, I have made a recent observation that I choose not to reveal that leads me to think you are correct in that sales could be more robust.
I also have been looking at Pinside’s ownership numbers for several pins, not just The Beatles.
And when I saw that Ghostbusters Premium had 500 units produced but it is shown that 700 people own a Ghostbusters Premium and that there are 130 places to play a Ghostbusters Premium for a total of 830 Ghostbusters Premiums in the wild, or 330 more than the 500 produced, that throws all pinside ownership data in the trash can, as far as I am concerned.
But here is a kicker. Stern said 1964 Beatles are to be produced. In reality, only Stern will know how many will be produced and shipped. So, if Stern does not the Beatles sales numbers it could decide to stop production and no one would know the difference. And even if people did know the difference, would they even care? A shortened production schedules would mean that all Beatles pin owners would own a pin that will be “more rare” and I don’t think any current owners could care if that situation were to arise.
If demand has been met and Stern did stop production then everybody would win. Yes? No?
Pretty sure those are COMBINED premium and LE number your are quoting...
1 month later
Quoted from cottonm4:Sales are still happening. I finally got to play 3 different units at TPF. I like it but I don't love it. Since I already have a Seawitch I am not jonesing for one.
Even with the more open loop I did not have much better luck hitting multiple loop shots than I do with my Seawitch. And that target that sits behind the lower left drop targets is not a give-me; That shot is tricky because it likes to exit down the left outlane. The music was nice. I did not think I would be impressed with the music but I was.
[quoted image]
If money and space were not an issue, I would like to have a Beatles. However, I also got to play Munsters at TPF and I hope in next 6-7 months that I can figure out a way to squeeze one of these into my tight spaces.
I liked The Beatles. I liked Octoberfest. But Munsters really pushed all the right buttons.
42 days since your last update on Beatles sales.
This is where it stood then.
Cotton 42 days (resized).pngQuoted from yancy:We get it man. Enough.
just sharin some #s
no need to be sensitive about it. I still love the game and think it is one of the best Stern games in the past 5 years!
I think it continues to demonstrate how the pricing model failed miserably.
Quoted from fosaisu:What are the golds going for now?
6800
If they drop to 6000 then I may buy one for home. I figure it is worth slightly more than Pro type pricing as a personal game. That said, I have been playing more BK3000 than Beatles lately
1 month later
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:Has anyone got any intel about a second Beatles production run?
Anyone?
based on sales and now known playfield defect issues, I am doubtful there is a second run.
I could see them running just the remaining platinum edition to toss a bone (big profit) to distributors.
Quoted from Aussiepinwiz:The question is when will they pull the trigger to do the second run?
I think the reality is... they never finished the first run.
images are from 80 days ago, 40 days ago, and today.
67 home games and 57 location games. That is not too many, even if pinside only accounts for 30% of the real number... Things are clear on the sales of this title. They are miserably bad.
How many Golds do you think exist at this stage?
80 days ago (resized).png40 days ago (resized).jpgToday (resized).PNG
Quoted from Neal_W:Which are those?
Not good! In fact, the worst I have seen to date for Stern.
Three machines I have personally see so far. I actually am yet to see a single Beatles with more than 400 plays that does not have this issue appear.
031A6E8D-9F1D-4A3B-9A2E-6145E644C259 (resized).jpeg345D99BE-6EE6-465E-8E00-1B6F6932DB1F (resized).jpeg613BB3A7-5F6C-4036-A45D-21FCF6A17E7F (resized).jpeg66B6B38F-1131-44F5-B099-DB88923705A0 (resized).jpegC7DED5D0-D5B8-4EA2-A07F-F265EDBD814E (resized).jpegFBFB1FAF-4A7E-4EA4-B6E5-341054AC3D86 (resized).jpegQuoted from Psw757:the clear and art is lifting right up once that bubble cracks.
that is what is going on here.
Much worse than what I have seen on other recent games.
Quoted from Psw757:Has Stern acknowledged the issue?
currently waiting on distributor to get this fixed. This far complete radio silence from Stern.
They have always made it right before so very odd to have this reaction this time around.
Hoping for resolution very soon. It already impacted the decision to not buy a new cat woman and instead grab some other games.
Mistakes and F ups happen. It is how they fix it that matters.
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