Ah cool thanks!

This seems to be a different model than the usual..

Special When Lit podcast posted these pics on Facebook from a visit to Stern yesterday.

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I might be your buyer at 7k

Budman. If I buy one you will be the first PM when I go to sell it.

As a proud owner of a Beatles Gold I must say that I will be surprised if very many of these come up for sale in the coming months and years. I have bought and sold a lot of pins in the past several years but I do believe this one is a keeper.

Played one on Thursday. I enjoyed it far more than I expected to. But no way would I pay anywhere near Stern’s prices. $4k-$5k? Maybe. But you just have to love the Beatles more than life itself to pay more - the value just isn’t there. I’ll gladly play it on location though.

Somebody really needs to start a thread called "The Beatles $4K Crowd".

Me? It is not in my budget and I can't afford it. But I'd sure like to have one. I'd like to have a new Corvette, too, but it is not in my budget and I can't afford it. But i'd sure like to have one.

Its not about being cheap or being able to afford the game. I’ve bought some very expensive games NIB (Batman 66 LE) and have no problem paying top dollar for high end restorations or CQ quality games.

Beatles is a nice game but horribly overpriced for what it is. And that’s too bad. Because if it was priced more in line for what it is, I think it would sell pretty well. At current prices, it’s doomed to WWE-like sales levels.

Let's be honest though... 4k is being a bit dramatic.

It would be long sold out if Golds were priced at Pro prices. I think 6500 and the majority would be gone.

8k is just too damn much.

looks like they have doubled the production run of the total golds thus far

I predict less than 300 golds get built in total at the rate they are going. It will be WWE levels done based on what we have seen. Hopefully Stern learned a lesson with this pricing model, but I'm guessing they will blame it on the single level pf design or "I guess Beatles license is finally too old"...

I Love the Beatles and I would be willing to pay $6500 on the used market. But as many have said, I don’t expect their will be any owners selling them for that much. I think the lowest you will see is $7000.

I know you are a distributor, but you must see how trying to exaggerate the sales on a title that seems to be obvious to everyone but those selling it (lol) does not look good on you. There is ZERO chance anywhere close to 700 golds are sold out. I understand that distributors like to claim "sold out" to pump the hype but just because distributors may have bought the first 700 (that appears to be false also) they are far from sold out.

EVERY and I mean EVERY distributor I know of that bought a 10 pack is sitting on multiple golds in inventory. Call around as many are offering deals now also.

The game is very fun, nobody is arguing against that.
The license is a great license, nobody is arguing against that.

The sales are pitiful and production is very low. "sold out" is merely marketing hype and it makes you look silly (esp on a pinball forum; sure use that line on joe blow that walks in the door... but you are insulting the hobbyist intelligence if you think that is working here).

Can you put a number on this?

Currently, the only number I have is that Stern has said it is going to build (and sell) 1964 Beatles. Without verified RETAIL sales numbers, how can anybody determine sales success, or failure?

You know the price is up there because of that license. Higher prices always sell slower than "Walmart flying off the shelf prices". Is this going to be a machine where all profits go to The Beatles Store?

Well...

What about if the pin is priced like a Corvette (in pin terms), but drives and is featured like a Chevette?

Are you claiming Stern ISN"T in the second phase of production? That was ASOA's very specific assertion.

Arguing about the definition of "sold out" is ridiculous, since it applies to any title. The most meaningful definition of "sold out" given Stern's business model (of only selling exclusively through distributors) is "sold out" to distributors. That's all Stern needs to "crank up" the line to produce more games. If they didn't have distributors requesting more allocation, I sincerely doubt Stern would be starting a second phase of production.

Are you saying that Beatles is like a Chevette? If so, why?

If true that will make the Golds about as valuable on the second hand market (IF any come up for sale) as the Platinums (250 machines) which have the same playfield.

If true I think I'll jump in now and buy a Gold!

Stern may be building 25 more to satisfy the next set of platinums. Also may bemaking more golds fomr the first claimed batch as i don't belive they sold anywhere near the original planned batch for round 1.

What's your source?

I wonder if diamond and platinum have sold out?

I've been following this topic a few weeks and what a lot of hate you put into this Beatles thread, Hilton?!
It's beyond me why you're so driven to prove people that there's no chance Beatles might be selling despite the high price.

Our Belgian distributor placed a second order for more Golds and could only secure a limited amount as Stern claimed all others are sold yet even though they wanted to order at least double the amount of what they got.

Take it for what it's worth but it might be a sign these aren't selling that bad apparently?

Sadly enough it's too expensive and a risk to put on route so I won't be buying one either.

Unlikely. A Beatles Platinum was recently listed locally for $8,999 (with shaker, white glove delivery). 4k off "MSRP".

From my perspective, the Platinum/Diamond editions don't have enough to distinguish themselves. In fact, the Gold speckled armor looks best of the bunch. The PF's are identical and the cabinet & translite artwork are very, very similar. If I'm going to buy something "limited", you need to make it sufficiently different...examples are AC/DC BIBLE (wildly different color scheme, imagery), TRON LE (almost a dozen distinguishing features).

Love my Gold Beatles...4 flippers, 3 sets of drop targets, star rollover!, spinning/magnetic disk, orbit magnet, opto spinners. If CGC did a remake of Centaur/Fathom (drop target heavy 80's classics), you can bet they would sell for 7k all day long (damn close to the street price of Beatles Gold).

WARNING, tldr

my source is the same as ASOA... you just pull a WAG and post it up.
However, my WAG actually:
1. looks at the numbers claimed to be sold by distributors with us all knowing that many of them flat out lie to push sales and then looking at all the other information out there. Watching the behaviors over the past few months of these salesmen has been telling in its self as some become desperate to sell stock.
2. Takes everything that the sales team at Stern says with a grain of salt. It is their job to sell and they have been shown time and time again to lie (call it half truths if that makes you feel better, but they spew BS much of the time > not personal as it is just their jobs). Watch their decisions to delay MUN post holiday in an effort to push Beatles.
3. look at the number recorded on public sites and correlate that with other games and numbers after a similar amount of time.
4. watch the hype here on the #1 collector site anywhere. Hype is all but dead here aside from a handful of owners (rightfully excited as the game is fun) and the various distributors (both ones that are open about being distributors and the few that post anonymously here but are in fact sellers/resellers)
5. Call around and talk to distributors. They all have them for sale, they still have them for sale, and the prices have dropped. You dont drop a price in order to sell an item that is supposedly flying off the shelves.

It really does not take much common sense to come to this accurate conclusion. If these golds are selling like gangbusters, where the hell have they gone to, lol. Some mysterious pool of NIB pinball buyers?

ASOA's WAG is that he is a distributor without bias... Keep in mind he wont tell us any actual data like how many he bought, how many he has sold, what prices he sold his diamond and platinums for and now what the golds are selling/ not-selling for.

I actually love the Beatles. I think the game is super fun (I played the 2 they had in Chicago). I think the theme is great also (finally a band theme I like).

Dont misinterpret my despise for distributors on a collectors forum spewing BS and false hype as hate for the game or them personally. I just think it is important that there is a voice of reality to counter the salesman pitches from some on here with the constant hype train.

Passion for the hobby is not hate. I dont want to see any of my fellow hobbyists fall for the fake hype. Beatles is a fun game, but priced much too high and the sales mirror that conclusion.

A little reality for you on what numbers are public
https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/stern-the-beatles/owners
58 Golds can be accounted for (both private and public).
Most will accept that Pinside represents 30-50% of the public pinball collector world in numbers of games. PInside seems to be more heavily US/ NA based in users, but still useful.

You can of course cross reference with pinball owners which tends to be more overseas and find 5 gold owners.

Some may say that Pinside is a small percentage. Reality is that public locations are well accounted for here and on pinball map (total of 49)

For a small comparative, go look at WWE which is well accepted as being the worst selling modern Stern. There are 76 locations (pinball map) and 33 private owners. That means WWE is 2x the seller that Beatles currently is. Distributors will argue that WWE has been out longer, but we all know that the majority of game sales for any title happen in the first bolus in the first month prior and month post release. We are 5! months post announcement and 3 months post sales. Ample time for them to get out there.

need another comparison? How about Mustang, the widely accepted 2nd worse selling modern Stern. 100 locations and 83 owners.

Just stop buying into the false distributor hype on this title.

The clear reality is that the game was overpriced and the sales reflect it. This went over like a lead balloon and keep your eyes wide open when someone in sales tells you they are not biased (lol)

Own the game already?, GREAT! have me over to play. The thing is a blast IMHO!
Thinking of buying the game? awesome! just please understand the difference of salesguy hype and the reality of how many are sitting in back stock.

I believe that Stern "sold out" for the first run to distributors. They marketed this great by forcing distributors to buy a 10 pack to get in on the first run. Sold them on the hype and many distros cashed in big on the Diamond and platinum sales.

I believe that Stern is running some more in Jan because there are surely some distributors with customers that want this game and those distributors did not buy in for the first run for the 10 pack.

The reality is that Stern sells on hype to distributors and they in turn sell on hype.
Stern does not care if distributors are stuck with stock on a 10 pack and that shows as they run more games for new distro orders instead of telling Distros to sell their back stock to each other.

Same place all his nonsense comes from.

His ass.

Is there anybody else here who constantly, Day after day, just makes bullshit up and presents it as fact?

I can’t think of anyone.

The question is: What were your expectations in terms of time frame for selling out on a limited overpriced boutique pinball machine-not meant for hardcore pinheads? Weeks, Months, or Years?

Supply and demand will determine future pricing on this title. Seems to me the majority of people who have actually played it-actually like it. We all agree it is not an $8000 game-beating a dead horse, but it seems like $6000-$6500 and people are ok with that? We are talking about $1500 price difference? Anyway I do hope they do not sell well and Stern authorizes distributors to lower map pricing-because I would be interested if the price was reasonable.

People keep talking about The Beatles Gold costing $8,000. I bought mine in early December for $7,800. I assume with a little checking around one can be had for around $7,600. By the way we love it.

I can’t imagine Stern would ever allow a MAP reduction. Maybe “buy a gold and get $2k off another title”. Game play is surprisingly fun but the art package and animations remind me of a Saturday morning cartoon.

Hilton’s WAG above is reasonable and thought out. I have talked to a number of collectors I know where money is generally not an issue and that I expected would be in the target market including one Beatles super fan. Not one of them has played the game and they all said some variation of “it’s priced too high for what it is”.

I think Stern knew these were going to be a tough sell when they came up with the 10 pack distributor idea which essentially incentivized dealers to buy more golds than they otherwise would have been interested in.

The Beatles situation is sad because it may hamper further retro redesigns using the excuse they don’t sell well while not admitting that the failure was due to the pricing model and not the game itself.

$200 isn’t going to make a difference. $2000 might.

Distributors were not required to buy a 10 pack to sell golds.
The couple distributors that I have a relationship with and spoke to regarding this said they are selling about as expected and it did bring in new customers commercially and privately.

Don’t know why they would lie to me considering I already own one.

It is interesting how polarizing this game is over pricing alone because the majority of folks who have spent some time on it say it is pure old school fun, attractive machine with good integration.

There are several games more expensive than the Gold that have more toys etc... that I don’t find as enjoyable/fun and I feel are highly overrated considering their price point and I will likely never buy them.

It’s all very subjective but at the end of the day it is what it is.

I didn’t say that they were. But that concept clearly was designed as an incentive to sell golds by including the lottery tickets of the other models.

As for “selling as expected” that doesn’t provide any useful insight. If they expected low sales and got low sales that’s selling as expected. Good to hear it’s bring some new blood in. But you wonder if some of those new folks don’t look at other new games and say “hey - this one over here has ramps and costs a whole lot less”

Only pinheads focus on stuff like "ramps", normal people just marvel at the beautiful artwork and overall presentation.

For BOM obsessed pinheads, 3 banks of drops are likely just as costly as 1 bank of drops and 2 ramps. Look at Munsters...the game is screaming for drops and not only does Stern omit them, they omit separate targets entirely! The next leg of cost cutting apparently...

The thing that really amazes me is that everyone is all up in arms on pricing of the gold but not as much as the outrageous diamond or even the platinum.
The gold is arguably the best looking of the three and is the same exact game otherwise.
Most seem to be of the opinion that if the gold was $6500 that would be ok and is only $1000 off of actual street price. The other two are so over the top priced above where they should be because of a small plaque saying of 250 or 100.

This is where the discussion should be directed in my opinion.

Every owner with a new pin purchase says this (myself included), I can’t remember the last time someone posted “I just purchased XXX and I must say it totally blows”. Only time will tell.

Well Whysnow did concede that his production numbers are a wild ass-guess, so you guys are on the same page there it seems.

I've definitely been critical of games, but usually surrounds lame quality (MANY posts after taking delivery of DILE, IMDN Premium).

My Aerosmith quality was fine, but the game was super lame (left the premises last week, to make room for Munsters).

If Munsters is lame, I won't hold back. Don't understand pumping a game you don't like (for whatever reason).

Developing a retro game took some guts, and I'm glad that Stern is "mixing it up".

Thunderbirds.

Are you saying 25 more than the published amount of 250, or that the 25 are part of the 250?

Haha. Good point.

OK. If you WAG looks at the numbers why are you having such a problem laying out the numbers you claim to see to bolster your position?

Give us some numbers, man.

ASOA'S information would be considered proprietary, would it not? Perhaps Stern (a private company) , for whatever reason advises distributors to not talk about the numbers publicly. There is certainly no law that saying this can't happen.

And about the pool of NIB buyers, how many Beatles have been sold, to date, at The Beatles Store. 5? 10? 20? A lot? A few? As of this time, I don't recall anybody coming here to pinside saying they bought their copy from The Beatles Store. All we know when we visit The Beatles Store is at all 3 models are sold out for $10,000.00 each. How much is true and how much is BS? Again, we need numbers.

Until you can bring some baseline numbers, I'm not sure I could be generous enough to consider you the voice of reality. Matter of fact, other than a couple of distributors that are here, I can't say I recall too many Stern sales reps coming to Pinside making pitches and breathlessly telling me I just have to buy one of these right now ! I do see the Beatles sale ads in the marketplace. You can ask me why this does not surprise me.

I would like to thank you for taking up the mantle to save me from myself; That is very altruistic of you. But somehow, I just cannot shake the thought that you are hoping to scare potential buyers away in an effort to collapse sales and prices you can slip in a sneak a few on the cheap. Everything you write is just screaming, "I want one of these so frigging bad".

BTW: What is "fake hype" ? If the vernacular for hype is BS, what is fake BS? Is that something like the dishonest truth, as opposed to the honest truth? Which leads to question of what is lacking in just using "truth" and "hype" to make a point. ??

This paltry collection of numbers is only what you can see. How do you/will account for some pinsiders who keep their collections private? How many of those type of buyer/owners are on pinside with tight lips? And don't forget any numbers from The Beatles Store sales. And don't blow off buyers who make their purchase and just disappear. Some people are not interested in mixing it up

Damn! Those numbers just don't want to come. Do they? How many are sitting in back stock? That would definitely be a good bargaining chip to know.

Don't tell me what you think. Don't tell me what you feel. And and don't tell me what you believe. You think the moon is made of green cheese. You feel the moon is made of green cheese. And you believe the moon is made of green cheese. It's a free country. But I'm interested in what you know. Like numbers. That's something I can get behind.

By definition, you believe in something that cannot be proved. If I see two people and one is wearing a watch and the other is not, which one do you think I will be asking for the time? I'll take the guy who can look at his watch and tell me it is 12:33pm. All the other guy can do is tell me, " I believe it is around noon".

Again, I don't care what you believe; Tell me what you know. Also, this statement contradicts everything you have been saying. First, you tell us that sales are abysmal but offer no proof, only conjecture.

But here you are saying," because there are surely some distributors with customers that want this game and those distributors did not buy in for the first run for the 10 pack."

Well, knock me over with a feather. Here are some new sales popping up by some people who are arriving late to the party. Imagine that. Here you are saying some new sales are coming on. Now, i'm not sure what to believe So, which is it? Are sales falling off a cliff? Or are new sales prospects coming on wanting to buy? You can't have it both ways.

You also preface your statement with "there are surely some distributors". Surely? How did you come up with "surely" ? How many distributors fall into your "surely" category? Here I am looking for numbers again. How many distributors fall into this...ah.. "surely" category? What makes you so sure there are any at all?

Define the "hype" that Stern uses on its distributors, please. What kind of BS is it your distributor friends told you that Stern shovels at them? Are they getting the old, "you better shape up" stuff from Stern?

When in business, there is a lot of BS. A lot of confidence gaming going on. When you are in business, business is always good; Even when it not. Like the song says, "nobody wants you when you are down and out", and singing the blues. It's kind of like when you are not dating anybody. Here is your single self and you can't buy a date with a winning lotto ticket. But as soon as you do manage to get a girl to go out with you, here come all of her friends followed by a bevy of strange women just dying to go out with you. Everybody loves a winner.

People don't want to be the only one to buy this model of car that you can't move, but if you say you have sold 8, or 10, or ?? in the last two weeks, well that is what they now want to buy. So, yeah, there is hype. There is BS in sales. The toothpaste commercials will tell you their brand will make your teeth whiter; They won't tell you their brand will make your teeth white. So, you brush your teeth and see that your 9 shades of yellow have moved up the "whiter" scale to 8.9. There is hype in business. Deal with it.

This statement, "as they run more games for new distro orders instead of telling Distros to sell their back stock to each other."

That's a fool's errand. Distributors selling stock back to each other would amount to a bonanza for the shippers, don't you think? If I were a distributor and a fellow distro wanted me to take some inventory of his hands, someone is going to have to pay for the shipping to the 2nd destination and it ain't going to be me.

I am crushed. Not even a mention in passing.

And an update, not that you even appreciate it enough to remember me in your online smackdowns: Beatles store has sold 0 Golds (0 any Beatles pin, actually) in the last 7 weeks. When they sell out of ~$2000 white turntables in a snap, that's not a hit item sales pace.

Ok, but has the Kapow website been updated? That’s the only datapoint that will sway anyone in this thread.

Is it any surprise that a(ny) pinball machine isn't more popular than turntables? T-shirts? Vinyl? Mugs? Or course not.

I don't believe the price OR design of the Beatles pinball would effect sales at all. It is or isn't selling because it's an outlier...an item that has never been offered.

Would be interesting to compare the Beatles website effectiveness @ selling a pinball machine with other rock bands...e.g. how many KISS pinball machines were sold via the KISS merchandising website?

Last week I visited Cidercade in Dallas. They have something like a couple dozen pins. I played a few different games once each, then about 20 games in a row of Beatles. Couldn't get enough. Only stopped because I had an early meeting the next morning. I think it helped that the place was just loud enough that I could sort of hear the call-outs, but not really the music. Song repetition really turned me off the first time I played it in Chicago. The game isn't in my budget, but I will gladly play it on location or at a friend's house, at least until my ears bleed from yeah-yeah-yeahs.

Glad you like it! I've bumped into a few hardcore players lately and was surprised to hear how much they liked the game as well.

Since all the songs are on 30 second timers, I'm not sure how the songs could get repetitious. I've owned quite a few music pins over the years and I find this the least repetitious. Games are nice and concise, like many 80's style games.

I have my game setup a bit more difficult...no gifted song at plunge (need to spell "fab four" and make the loop to start a new mode/song).

Umm, that's exactly how.

I thought it did 90 Seconds of each song? Am I wrong?

JJ