I honestly have to laugh when someone thinks 1600 pf anything is limited, esp in pinball where Stern rarely even sells 2000 total games for any title.

You always know the hypebeasts when they are pumping on beatles being limited.

You might just beat out Aaron Rodgers for the Wisconsin Son of the Year award.

Seems like a good time to launch a Beatles pinball machine. I think we should be giving Stern a bit more credit:

https://www.facebook.com/47137704116/posts/10156153511194117/

It is limited. Not sure how you can debate that. I think you're conflating the definition of "limited" with "rare." Star Light is rare, Beatles is limited. Some games are both, yet still undesirable (the Mafia comes to mind).

Yeah, yeah... you know what i meant. 1600 of any modern game is false hype when using the word "limited"
I see it in the poster collecting world also. Sure, it has a set edition sizeof a predetermined number, but that does not mean squat from a collectibility standpoint unless tha number is low enough to actually create a sell out and secondary market demand.

beatles can't even sell out the first time around, hell there are five advaerts for sale at the bottom of this page and each of those distros has a quantity they are still trying to sell.

Awesome, don’t buy one. I’m sure someone else will gladly

Is 100 "limited"?!

Screenshot_20181123-200759_Instagram (resized).jpg

Primus pinball
Limited - yes, 100
Rare - yes, 100 made
Valuable - tbd ???

Let’s say Team Pinball announces it will make 100 limited edition Mafia pins. They get orders for and make 20 games and stop because there is no more demand.

Mafia pinball
Limited - no, announced 100 but demand was not there
Rare - yes, 20 made
Valuable - no!

And for those of us who don’t have Facebook what is the gist of this?

Sorry, was hoping Pinside could embed FB posts so you can see them.

Just a Discogs (huge online record trading site) link to The Independent article saying it’s the 50th anniversary of the White Album and it’s selling well (again).

Try this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/beatles-white-album-50th-anniversary-reissue-tracklist-paul-mccartney-a8640756.html

95EF2D6C-A8FC-4C01-8F18-54C626DD8404 (resized).png

You are obsessed with that website, which is weird because the Kapow guy sure isn't.

First Beatles landed in Minnesota. Looks like by Thursday we will have two, one for each of the Twin Cities.

Capture (resized).JPG

Live now at http://www.twitch.tv/buffalopinball — Your FIRST LOOK at live, in-depth gameplay on the brand new Beatles pinball machine with Rudy at Tilt Pinball Bar. Come hang!

Thanks Rudy and Buffalo pinball for restoring my faith. Game play looks FUN! The redesigned loop shots are easier now. I saw Rudy hit the left loop with the bottom right flipper. I know Jon from Jackbar is picking one up, I hope Sunshine Laundromat gets one as well.

Looks
Like a blast to shoot

Sunshine is getting at least two LOL. One a Diamond.

Seriously.

This game looks like a lot of fun. I might be wrong, but it sounds like they spliced out the end of "I Should Have Known Better."

Yesssss thank you Peter!! Great news Levi!

I really don't understand the point, but OK. Their money I guess.

Thanks rudy! The beatles looks like a solid winner

If you missed it live:

What is the purpose of the upper left flipper in the game? For the upper left flipper is there a shot other than the center drop targets (which can be hit with the lower flippers)?

Same as in Seawitch

I don't know that game well either.
It would appear from watching the video that it is better/safer not to use the upper left flipper.

You can hit the middle targets, send it up to the pops/targets, hold it up so the ball falls diff'rently out of loop etc

So, no dedicated shots. Better if it was left out, I hate having extra flippers to interact with the ball...

#hobbitgate

Which was juts a re-gate of #Wozgate

EDIT: The real question is was #wozgate always just a re-gate of #Seawithgate to begin with?

I'm seeing some people speculate on a street price (or have been quoted) $7,600, if anyone knows a distributor (or is a distributor) shipping to WA with no tax for that price PM me please .

Me too!

I'm kind of excited for this one. I heard there were only a handful taking place across the country.

beatles (resized).JPG

The early reviews from Seattle are positive on the whole. One just landed at Shorty's and while it's kind of simplistic and way too expensive, apparently it's a fun game. Perhaps Stern wanted something a little less complex as a gateway drug to more difficult tables. A valid criticism of both Ghostbusters and Game Of Thrones is that it's difficult for casual players to know what to do.

I watched a good deal of the Buffalo stream. I am not sure what I was expecting, but it was just ok for me. Positives are that its a very fast game with simple rules. Beatles fans will love it. Pinheads with larger collections may be ok. I don't think it would have awesome staying power in a smaller (2-4) game collection. When you think about what $8,000 will buy you in pinball, it is a tough one to justify.

I had similar thoughts. Tried to see if I could convince myself on it.

In general, I will make a trip to play one on route (possibly the one at Tilt in Minn?) but I dont think this is anywhere near the value at 8k for home use.

I also was evaluating for route and I dont think this will do well on route because it is a tough game. Given the pricepoint it will need to be at same coin drop price as any other new game ($1 or more in most cases) and the general route player is not going to get the value for the buck. As a route player, I would spend time on pretty much every other game that is $1/play after the pinhead novelty wears off from the first session.

I would be better off buying a Seawitch and pricing it at .50 per play for route.

I think there is a fine line for the casual players on location with games being too complex and not getting repeated plays. My hunch tells me this will out earn a WOZ, Hobbit, POTC, SW Stern and all these other complex difficult scoring rule games. I own POTC and it’s a fantastic beautiful game but most of my friends aren’t pinheads and they don’t like it, they all say WTF do I need to do and what just happened... sometimes less is more, the game while simple to understand is difficult to achieve the goals which keeps players coming back.

Of course this is just my observation. 8k is a lot of coin for it though.

from experience, it would be hard pressed to better than many of those titles.

I hear lots of people bag on JJP games on route and say they are too complex for player, but reality is that JJP games function largely like classic B/W games. They wont be your biggest earner out of the gate, but they are steady, solid players, and always in to top 30% of games. In other words they tend to be worth it over the long run.

Stern games in opposition make a big splash the first few month/s and then tend to drop off quickly after the general player base is on to the next new shiny object. The rarity is a Stern that does well over the longer term.

100% will be more profitable.

3000 for a NICE seawitch. Set it at .50 per play. Lets imagine it gets 100 plays a month for easy math. $50 a month and will do that every month for the next 12 months. $600 a year. At the end of the year Seawitch is still worth 3000 resale (likely more based on current trends). 20% return on the money.

Beatles is 8000. Set it at $1 per play. Lets imagine it gets 1.5 the plays for the first 3 months, so $150 a month. Then is will drop to $120 a month or morely likely $100-120, so say $1600 in coin a year. At the end of the year that Beatles is worth 6500-7000 resale. Sell it and you made $100-600. Even is you imagine it sells for more after a year or does spectacular... you are looking at 6-12% return.

The math works out in favor of the Seawitch and if I ma being honest, experience shows the Seawitch will do better than my estimate and be worth more than what you bought it a year later.

my numbers were just hypothetical for an example. I would not talk actual numbers.

I also have no desire to route games in family fun centers or swipe systems. Largely as I prefer to put out games like Seawitch which players wont see anywhere else. I dont doubt you would go Beatles, esp since you sell them and I don't, lol.

Then why are you buying new games at all? Why not just do all EMs and early Digitals? These games are dirt cheap and will pay for themselves in a few months according to your business model. Why spend $3,000 on a seawitch when you can get a Toledo for $500, or a Buck Rogers for $800?

Or is Seawitch just a huge earner?

All the information that we really need to know.

they are still relative dummy

You state a bunch of numbers like facts but when you are called on it you claim it's just hypothetical. You say The Beatles isnt selling but then you say you wont route one because you only route rare games that people wont see elsewhere. It's always bizarro world with you.

Well you haven't routed a Beatles and I don't think you've told us whether you've routed a Seawitch, so it's hard to know what to make of your hypothetical relative numbers. From reading your other posts it sounds like you've got a somewhat unique route going, in that games like Star Wars perform poorly compared to games like Dialed In, contrary to what most other operators report on Pinside. Which may make it hard to extrapolate from your route to other situations.

TLDR version, we know you struggle with math so I can explain it below.

More appropriate version >>>in short, this is a hobby.

It takes LOTS of time to rebuild and get any game route ready. The older the machine the longer it often takes and more effort/skill. However, I also take pride in offering these games up to be played. How often will you see a Seawitch on route to be played? (I see 10 on the map... and only 1 of those is actually open to the public each day)

We have ~50 games on route at 5 locations and have done this all as a hobby in the past 5.5 years. We put it all right back in to the growth of the hobby.
Gotta be smart with what you get but also have the ability to make dumb decisions for the fun of pinball sometimes.

You need to understand that Beatles at 8000 will likely do the same as the next Pro at 5500. That is your simple answer from an economics standpoint.
Pro makes $1600 and then you sell it in a year for less depreciated value that the beatles. Say 5k sale price. That gets you back to a 20% return for the up front cost. With a NIB game you still have work put in to get it set up and keep it running, but less effort then a full rebuild of an old game.

Time/Effort/Up front cost all go in to a decision like that.

This actually makes a lot more sense and is more coherent than I thought it would be.

but bottom line is old games don't make money on location. I think your $8,000 Beatles is a better investment on route than your hypothetical $3,000 Seawitch. I also think you are underselling the money you get back from your nicely routed Beatles in 2 years if you and your customers get tired of it. I bet it's worth $6500 or more.

Your average Stern pro is also worth more than you think it is. You could sell a nice pro Deadpool off route in $4,000 easy, and that's probably an undersell. And that Seawitch will be losing value too. It has little value to most operators.

The routed SeaWitch holds its value but the new Beatles machine loses up to 20%? Considering very few Sterns lose that much value after one year, your argument seems a little weak. Not to mention pure conjecture.

Can you freaking play the game first, before pontificating like you actually know something about this yet?

BTW, the Beatles playfield is arguably as interesting as SW Pro. Sure, about a $2,500 dollar difference in price. But it’s the Beatles.

I completely get this, even though your resale prediction for Beatles is ridiculously low. I dont get this argument when you turn around and say jjp games are a good route investment though. They loose more in resale and have higher maintenance cost. Once again you contradict yourself.