(Topic ID: 149897)

The Allentown Pinfest 2016 Thread

By shacklersrevenge

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 2,277 posts
  • 364 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by freddy
  • Topic is favorited by 44 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

whoops2_(resized).jpg
whoops1_(resized).jpg
beating-a-dead-horse_(resized).png
ar131309148510904_(resized).jpg
myphoto_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).jpeg
image_(resized).jpeg
image_(resized).jpeg
image_(resized).jpeg
20160506_111838_(resized).jpg
20160507_200624_(resized).jpg
20160507_110139_(resized).jpg
20160506_195717_(resized).jpg
20160506_160625_(resized).jpg
HPIM3102_(resized).JPG
HPIM3101_(resized).JPG

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider adrift.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#911 8 years ago

I'm new as well. Just picked up my first machine in November and am really looking forward to the Allentown show. Planning on being there all day Friday.

Just one thing...obviously a lot of you guys have been in the hobby for a while. Please remember that some of are are new and really have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to machines by a set of initials...the full names of games would be very helpful to those of us still trying to get our feet wet. (Thanx)

#914 8 years ago
Quoted from Dooskie:

They've done a great job with this website. With a lot of the initials for machines, if you run your cursor over it, the name and year of the machine will show up. It took me awhile to figure that out. I'm a bit slow with this type of stuff.

Yeah...I had noticed that on a lot of them, but not all. Pretty cool feature though.

Thanks!

3 weeks later
#1869 7 years ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

Was it just me or did it seam like a lot of early SS and Em games were leveled to flat. Some games I could have sworn the ball was going rolling away from me???

Not you at all...I thought most of the games seemed to be flat. I like mine faster and I guess I'm spoiled.

1 week later
#2167 7 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

I agree and that was my point too. I think the guys at Allentown did a good job. I know I was impressed. I even bought two T-shirts to add to the collection.
My only criticism was of those who felt they were somehow wronged because they had to pay a $25 fee for removing the machines they sold from the free play area when they agreed to leave them there and were granted free admission in return for bringing them.
Some obviously feel they should just be able to bring a machine to the show and receive free admission then place it in the free-play area and sell it five minutes later and remove it from the show with no regard for anything or anyone else and that's being cool. But what do I know? I'm just a "newbie" to the Allentown Pinfest not some weathered veteran of the event and therefore my opinion doesn't mean squat.

While I agree that the show was top notch, I think your criticism might be misdirected.

It looks like you are being critical of people who agree to place a machine in the free play area, receive free admission, and then complain when the have to pay to remove the machine "early".

What this glosses over is that if a machine is sold, the person who brought the machine with them and received free admission as a result, is no longer the owner of the machine. They have no right to keep that machine at the show...they no longer own it. The new owner (the buyer) did NOT agree to leave their machine in the free play area, they did NOT receive free admission because THEIR machine is there...If they don't choose to agree to the terms for a machine to be in the free play area they, as the legal owner of the machine, should be free to remove that machine. IF the new owner chooses to leave their machine in the free play area, then they should receive consideration...just like the original owner of the machine did.

In short, let's not be quick to dump on the original owner when it is actually the new owner who is making the choice to remove a machine that they never agreed to leave in the first place.

The only way around this is to either forbid the sale of a machine during the show, or somehow making it a part of the purchase agreement that requires the new owner to live up to the agreement made by the original owner.

#2174 7 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

The seller controls the situation 100%. I've brought machines to shows before and have sold a few of them. I tell potential buyers that they can have it at the end of the show. If that isn't good enough for them then for me it's "no sale".
But I understand that might not work for some who don't want to risk not selling the machine altogether. So the other options are then either you tell the buyer if they can't wait until the end of the show then they must pay the additional charge as part of the sale price or the seller eats the $25.
Either way isn't bad. Getting to place a machine in a show with a "For Sale" sign on it and have it exposed to hundreds of potential buyers with cash in hand and then only have to pay the paltry sum of $25 as a concession fee if you sell it (and nothing if you don't) and then receive free admission to the show on top of all that is a bargain! Jeeze!
Place a machine on eBay and sell it for $1,000.
The seller's fee would be $100 and that would be if it was set-up as a no-reserve auction.
Put it on eBay with a "Buy It Now' and the fee increases.
Then look at all the vendors who brought machines to the show just to sell along with all the parts vendors with booths. They paid hundreds of dollars for the opportunity to sell at the show.
Putting machines in the "Free-Play" area is an awesome way for people to sell a machine and not have to pay a cent as long as they make the buyer wait until the end or have the buyer pay the small sum of $25 if they remove it early. It's a great deal all the way around! Certainly nothing to complain about. It encourages people to bring machines by giving them free admission plus if you want to sell one it doesn't get much better. Complaining about the $25 fee for early removal is a joke. Especially after you subtract the $17-$34 they already saved on admission.

Well stated, but my comment really wasn't about the fee.

The issue I see is that people seem to be blaming the seller for the fact that the buyer has made the decision to remove the item they purchased from the show floor. Only the legal owner of the machine can make the decision to leave or remove it and it isn't right to lay responsibility on a person who used to own the machine. If you allow attendees to sell their property, then you have to respect the rights of the buyer to do with their property as they please.

Much of this thread leading up to the show seemed to be about people buying and selling machines with the show only serving as a meeting point to facilitate the exchange. Now I can see why so many were eager to get the sales completed outside of the framework of the show itself.

#2178 7 years ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

The machine isn't sold until the seller accepts the funds.
I think it's a no-brainer. If you have a machine to sell it's an excellent opportunity to sell it at the show out of the free play for either a small token fee of $25 or no fee at all. I've done it before at other shows and plan to do it again in the future.
I prefer to force any potential buyers to wait until the end if they wish to buy it (for the good of the show) but I guess if I was hard-up for money or couldn't hang around I would allow them to pay the penalty and remove it or pay it myself.
However if I was simply meeting someone at the show for the sole purpose of selling them a machine in a previously agreed upon sale I would complete the transaction out in the parking lot rather than take the machine inside just to get free admission knowing full well in advance I was going to remove it and not uphold my part of the deal with the show. I'm not that much of a cheapskate.

Quoted from flynnibus:

So consider it a lien - it should be disclosed at the time of sale as a condition of sale the game needs to stay on the floor or pay the fee. Your whole "new owner" angle does not negate the conditions the game and owner agreed to when registering the game.
Your line of thinking would negate every early exit fee.
It's not a difficult discussion to have when selling a game. People skirt the rule all the time by simply shutting down the game even if they don't remove it. It's hard to be the strict a-hole trying to police it when you also are trying to encourage people to bring games.
If I were the type to freak out and not want another 50 plays on the multi thousand dollar game you just bought... Just pay the pittance of a fee. People are spending 200 to led 800 dollar games... 20ish Bucks isn't a real barrier to those people

Wow...you guys sure do have a lot of ideas about rules to enforce on uninvolved buyers instead of the sellers who made the agreements in the first place. I'm kinda surprised that Ivan doesn't recognize your experience and knowledge in this area and simply have the two of you making all the rules for the show...

Speaking of rules...what if I put games in the free play area and I also paid my own $17 admission? Since I didn't receive the benefit, if somebody else removed a machine that they own from the free play area would I still be fined because I used to own that machine?

#2186 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

There is no "uninvolved buyer" - you bought the game off the show floor. If it's paid by the buyer or seller... It's simply semantics because it's still coming from the same net transaction. Argue whatever you want on 'whose money' it came from... It's easy to say pay more or get less, etc. potato potato... Just agree who covers it.
To your question, The early withdrawal fee is not tied to the free ticket benefit. It's written to the point that games brought for free play should stay all day. But feel free to ask Ivan yourself what their position would be.

It really isn't semantics as it has nothing to do with the money...it is about ownership.

If I tell you I'll give you a ride to the store on Saturday and I end up selling my car on Friday, the new owner of the car is in no way shape or form obligated to take you to the store. Property exchanges hands and prior obligations end.

I do like your idea about asking Ivan about the rules...perhaps THAT should have been the position from the start.

#2200 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Except, you didn't buy something that was 'free and clear' - you bought something with a prior obligation, housed in a place with constraints on you and the piece of property.
Again.. concept of liens.. just because you took ownership does not reset the rest of the world around that piece of property. Or how about the idea of buying something, but not taking possession of it right away? Why is this such a difficult concept... the Buyer did not buy something 'free and clear' - they bought something that has a prior obligation at an event regulating the property present.
Your car analogy is horrible.. the promise does not go away because they sold the car. They are still breaking the promise if the seller doesn't give the person the ride they promised... just like here they are still on the hook for ensuring the game is in the free play area. Who they collect the money from is just a matter of keeping it simple. The obligation is still intact even tho the game has been sold.

Not always in the grown up world.. prior examples have been given.
But at the end of the day.. this is a community event.. I have no idea why some people are so eager to defend why screwing your neighbor is the right thing to do. Share the games... share your new toy. Pinball is more fun together.

Now you've come full circle with your lien equivalence...except you missed the fact that the lien is on the property so in your example would transfer to the buyer...therefore it is the BUYER who has to pay the fee to remove the game and not the seller (which has been my point the whole time).

OTOH, if you place the lien on the seller (like you try to in the car example), then you have no right after the sale to say anything to the new owner as the lien isn't on them or their new property.

Can't have it both ways...

#2209 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

ugh... last time I'm going to reply because clearly everyone else is tired of this and you really can not follow logic or keep ideas intact.. instead you chose to pick and blend to try to make things look the way you want.
Your car example was the OWNER making a promise.. not the car. The point was just because he sold his car, the promise HE made is still intact. Just like the seller of the game made a promise, that must still be maintained. As I said PREVIOUSLY *who* you collect the money from is semantics and means nothing since both the buyer and the seller should be aware of the fee, and have made the sales transaction knowing the fee exists. Where you stuff the money in the deal doesn't matter.. it all comes out the same in the end.. the $25 would be part of the transaction no matter where you chose to bury it. You must be a real piece of work at the car dealer trying to buy a car if you can't follow this simple concept.
The point about liens was to debunk your premise that as soon as you buy something, the entire world resets and all obligations disappear. The reality is no one putting such concepts into play here because we are talking about $25. The example was simply to debunk your faulty view of the world about purchases.
The simple reality is, the seller can't really physically keep a buyer from doing something (within reason.. and no one is going to court over this stuff) if they release the game to the buyer.. which they are going to do to avoid liability about handling/breakage/etc. The fact the game is held inside the building when the event operator controls the exits to the building and that is the best point of control to enforce the rules. So when someone tries to take the game OUT is the best point of control to charge.
If the buyer wants to take the game out early... that's on the BUYER.. their choice.. and they can pay. If they don't want to pay, they should have made that part of the deal with the seller that the seller would front the fee as part of the transaction.
This entire 'struggle' is fuking PETTY. If, as the buyer, you didn't know you can't take the game out early... then get educated or turn around and put the game back on the free play floor and enjoy other people enjoying your game.
If you have to take it out early because you really have to leave early for other reasons.. then suck it up as part of the deal of buying a game at a show. Its still WORLDS cheaper than buying from auctions, online sites, etc.
Enforcing on the sellers is just more work, would discourage people from bringing games, and puts them in the awkward spot of trying to force someone else to do something when you really don't hold the power. Sellers are going to release the game to buyers... that's reality.. so instead of pissing into the wind.. just accept buyers are the ones in the driver seat, and they are the ones who control if the fee is even a discussion point at all.
TL;DR - stop fussing over a petty fucking avoidable fee whose purpose is to ENCOURAGE good behavior... not make people money.

Well you've finally come around. At the beginning you were all "blame the seller", but at least now you finally get the point I made in my first post that it is the buyers machine.

Really not about the money? Why not just eliminate the fee and require that the machine remain on site and under control of the show staff until Saturday night? No exception, no problems.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
800 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Oceanside, NY
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
 
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 4.00
Playfield - Decals
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 50.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Slipstream Mod Shop
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider adrift.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-allentown-pinfest-2016-thread?tu=adrift and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.