(Topic ID: 67163)

*FINISHED* The Acrylic Pinball Project - I am "clearly" insane


By Mk1Mod0

6 years ago



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There are 1333 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 27.
#800 5 years ago

I thought you said you had a Silhouette cutter, so why manually cut out anything? In mine, if I arrange the printing so that it has registration marks and lay it all out in the program, I can get the Sillouette to cut perfectly.

#801 5 years ago

Damn. This is just........ amazing. It's turning out so good. Hat's off to you.
I live in NW Wa so I have had a chance to play the SPM machine that they bring to the NW pinball show and this looks every bit as awesome.
Thank you for sharing all of your hard work!
Cheers!

#802 5 years ago
Quoted from winteriscoming:

I thought you said you had a Silhouette cutter, so why manually cut out anything? In mine, if I arrange the printing so that it has registration marks and lay it all out in the program, I can get the Sillouette to cut perfectly.

True enough. So far I have not been able to accomplish this. Always seems to be just so slightly misaligned.

#803 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

True enough. So far I have not been able to accomplish this. Always seems to be just so slightly misaligned.

There are adjustments you can set to get it perfect. It's been a while, but I recall there being something where you print out a page with a few crosses and it cuts on one of the crosses, and you measure how far off center it is and input that into the software and try again.

#804 5 years ago

See, that would require "reading instructions" and who has time that? Seriously, though, there was just too much to lose and my sked is getting tight so I chose at this point to just git 'er done. Got all those pesky inserts covered tonight and it's not too bad. Rest of the verbiage tomorrow and with luck I'll clear it this weekend.

IMG_9678.JPG
#806 5 years ago

Great work !!!!!

#807 5 years ago

Spray Max 2K? Two opposable thumbs up! So easy a monkey could do it. Letting it set for the night, pics tomorrow.

#808 5 years ago

Apparently this monkey is NOT smart enough. Currently re-evaluating products and processes...

IMG_9686.JPG IMG_9687.JPG IMG_9689.JPG
#809 5 years ago

What happened there? Did the clear peel off?

#810 5 years ago

Yep! Peeled clean off. I had earlier attempted to polish the piece clear with up to 2k grit wet paper. I think that was the biggest problem. Better to figure that out now.

#811 5 years ago

This project is amazing.

#812 5 years ago

I did manage to feel better after opening up the pack o' love I got from PBR earlier this week. They got what I need when I need it. That's what makes them one of the best.

IMG_9697.JPG
#813 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Yep! Peeled clean off. I had earlier attempted to polish the piece clear with up to 2k grit wet paper. I think that was the biggest problem. Better to figure that out now.

What grit did you sand the playfield with before clearing it?

#814 5 years ago

I'd think you'd want 500-800 grit surface for the clear to adhere to.
Not an expert tho.

#815 5 years ago

Looks amazing and yeah I agree with Zitt here. surface roughness is likely the most key point.

#816 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What grit did you sand the playfield with before clearing it?

I didn't.

Quoted from Zitt:

I'd think you'd want 500-800 grit surface for the clear to adhere to.
Not an expert tho.

Yup. 600 seems to be a popular number for this.

#817 5 years ago

You may want to look into a plastic prep spray which is made to help paint adhere to plastics. Not sure if it would come out clear or cloudy as I have only used it before applying color on automotive plastics. I would also put it over your decal in case it wrinkles them if/when you test.
Have you considered a thin plastic sheet over the entire playfield glued at the edge of any hole to prevent dirt from getting in between the 2 layers?
BTW this project is great and I have enjoyed following the progress.

#818 5 years ago

Auto clear coat won't even stick to itself after it's cured without sanding, so the poor playfield never had a chance.

#819 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Apparently this monkey is NOT smart enough. Currently re-evaluating products and processes...

That really is a bummer. At least it all peeled right off, right?

#820 5 years ago

Just caught up on the last 5 months of this thread, what better way of passing a couple of hours at work.! Outstanding, loved every updated.. Workmanship, on par with the best - a true piece of art.

Now..

Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

Apparently this monkey is NOT smart enough. Currently re-evaluating products and processes...

guilty.jpg

That rug looks pretty guilty.. I'd be blaming it.

#821 5 years ago
Quoted from woka:

That rug looks pretty guilty.. I'd be blaming it.

I already did.

#822 5 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

That really is a bummer. At least it all peeled right off, right?

IDK... looking at the picture; I see delamination of the clear vs the plastic in the center of the PF.
It might be very challenging to get the clear off of the plastic now.

#823 5 years ago

How can you all blame the rug it ties the whole room together....

#824 5 years ago

So far, so good. Where it has already started to peel I can get a good sized chunk to come off. And what comes off is mostly all of it. Like gooey, really flexible mylar. There may be just remnants of the initial "mist coat" being left behind but it scrapes off with a fingernail. So once I get back to zero, I'll sand at 600 and try again. I want to try the Spray Max 2K again before I go to a pro. Maybe spray a coat, give it an hour, light sand and spray again? I tried to sand/buff some of what was left on just to see how it would do and it loaded the paper in no time flat. Like it never fully cured between coats. Wondering if all our humidity has something to do with that?

Wow. So much love for my bed spread. I can feel it!

Taking suggestions for how to clean up the lighting wiring. I need a way to (neatly)plug 4 wires from 4 places into one source. Any thoughts?

#825 5 years ago
Quoted from BMHouze:

How can you all blame the rug it ties the whole room together....

Dude!

#826 5 years ago

I'm definitely no expert but after getting that old stuff off I would rough up the surface real good with a scrubbie pad and clean it good with naptha. I would wait a full day before applying the 2nd coat so not to worry that the 2nd coat will try to pull off the 1st coat when curing.

#827 5 years ago

I am still wondering if you're going to do the artwork on the play field like the sides and the header. While I'm at it I may as well inquire into if you'll do it for the back glass.
Inquiring minds want to know.

#828 5 years ago

no experience with Max 2k.
On my Auto Clear (chromacoat or something from dupont) the key is to make sure that each coat "flashes" per the recommended time on the label. IIRC; mine was something like 7-8mins... I usually waited 20. Also; UV helps cure my clearcoat; so I let mine flash in the sun.

Given this is a clear on top of clear lexan; I'd proably use a real paint booth to prevent dust/bugs from adding to the awesomeness of this mod.

#829 5 years ago

I could not help myself cause this is such a great project.

Adhesion of modern clear coats to plastics is not a given- even with sanding. Unsure of the components in your clear mix... but if your going to use a dupont based clear... here is what dupont says to do. I would get this product and test it with your clear....

Make It Stick
***_name redacted_ cause I don't want to get into trouble***
National Training Manager
DuPont

The other day, a customer called to say that the paint and clearcoat had come right off the surface of a raw plastic polyolefin part after he accidentally flexed it as he was carrying it to the car for installation. As usual, it was the last piece he was putting on the car and the car had to go out later that day.

Our tech called him and asked what steps he took to prepare the part for paint. He said he first cleaned it off with soap and water. Good. He followed it up with 222S adhesion promoter, and as soon as he said that, the tech knew that was the first problem. He then tacked it off, put his basecoat and clearcoat down with a 10-minute flash time in between, and then baked it.

The 222S adhesion promoter is not made for plastics. He should have used Plas-Stick 2320S. The directions are to saturate a cloth with it and clean the plastic thoroughly until all the gloss is removed and it doesn’t feel slick. After applying the Plas-Stick, you either hand sand the plastic with 800 grit or DA it with 500. Then you clean it again with Plas-Stick to not only take the sanding dust off but minimize static build-up. Once you reclean, you apply one more medium coat of Plas-Stick and allow it to dry. If you’re going to prime it, you would put Plas-Stick in the primer to flex it and put it in the sealer if you’re going to seal it. Then you would apply your basecoat and clearcoat. If you do that, there won’t be any issues.

#830 5 years ago
Quoted from rufessor:

I could not help myself cause this is such a great project.

From the Dupont website description for Plas-Stick - Do not use to clean ABS or Lexan; (polycarbonate).
I appreciate the help but it ain't gonna work.

Quoted from Zitt:

UV helps cure my clearcoat; so I let mine flash in the sun.

Flashtime is supposed to be 8-15 minutes depending upon temp. It also states that U/V would facilitate the flash time happening. When I read that, I pictured U/V bulbs that I don't have. Duh. The sun.

Quoted from BMHouze:

I am still wondering if you're going to do the artwork on the play field like the sides and the header. While I'm at it I may as well inquire into if you'll do it for the back glass.
Inquiring minds want to know.

As (somewhat) previously discussed, to blast the graphics onto the top of the playfield and then clear it would probably negate the work. Putting mylar over it would look like ass. Blasting the graphics underneath would make for horrible alignment issues. At this point the decals and paint, while not great, seem to be the best option. Same for the backglass. Graphics will be minimized to the necessities to maximize the view inside which is the point. (Side note - I will be doing a test piece of sandblasted poly while clearing the PF to see what actually happens for future reference.)

As for the "rug," it's a (fake) mink blanket bought while stationed overseas. Super soft and it makes for a great comforter. The cats love it as well.

Quoted from BMHouze:

How can you all blame the rug it ties the whole room together....

Exactly!

#831 5 years ago

Sorry- didn't pursue far enough to read that its not going to work on ABS or Lexan... this may indeed be as simple as sanding... maybe not. Plastics are or at least can be a problem in terms of getting stuff to stick. I am certain you will figure this out. Its hardly the first road block you have overcome. Keep at it-

#832 5 years ago

Since it's not a wooden playfield with paint, would a sheet of thick mylar be a viable alternative?

[edit]: Nevermind, just caught your comments in one of the above posts. That's what I get for simply glossing the posts, and basking of the warm glow of the photos instead.

Post edited by ForceFlow: whoops

#833 5 years ago

Could you sandwich 3 pieces together for the playfield? Thin top sheet, middle sheet with graphics and thick bottom sheet to mount equipment on. How thick is a playfield; 3/4"? Could laminate together an 1/8" top sheet, 1/4" middle layer, 3/8 bottom sheet. I just think it would be easier to laminate layers then clearcoat the top.

Just throwing it out there, love the project.

#834 5 years ago

If there was enough glue to leave no air gaps or bubbles, and you side lit the 3 sheets with LEDs you could get some cool lighting.

#835 5 years ago

how about adhering different color transluscent PVC film instead of blasting designs on the PF then clear over it?
http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_sheets_rolls/transcolor_rolls/254

#836 5 years ago

OK. Back to zero. After carefully peeling almost all of the clear coat I have sanded with 120, 220 and 400. 600 to follow and I think we'll call that good. See, there was one large spot that I knew would be covered by the ramp that delivers the ball to the shooting lane that got less attention than it should have? So the clear coat stuck to it like, well, clear coat should! There was no scraping it off without damaging underneath and it took the 120 a few seconds to make it go away. (I hit it with 400 and 600 first. All that did was smooth it out - as advertised.) I have a good feeling this will work the second time around. Once the 600 is done and I give it a good wipe down with the naptha I will reapply the decals and get her ready to shoot. Funny coincidence, first overcast day in MONTHS! May have to wait until tomorrow. Yes, we'll utilize the sun's U/V rays to our advantage this time.

#837 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

first overcast day in MONTHS! May have to wait until tomorrow. Yes, we'll utilize the sun's U/V rays to our advantage this time.

Be careful of direct sunlight. It can cause paint to dry too quickly. Overcast is good for painting and paint drying. High Humidity also will slow down dry time and can cause a whitish haze (trapped moisture).

#838 5 years ago
Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

how about adhering different color transluscent PVC film instead of blasting designs on the PF then clear over it?
http://www.tapplastics.com/product/plastics/plastic_sheets_rolls/transcolor_rolls/254

Yeah I am wondering what the final plan is for the artwork. I have to say that while everything about this project has blown my socks off, I was a little disappointed in seeing the white scoring cutouts stuck around the inserts. I mean, I get that without the white backing they are hard to read, but it seems like some creative use of some sort of the color artwork would look nicer, like maybe using the translucent films described above. Seems like a lot of the simple shapes of the original playfield could be created using these.

Unless I am just a dumb-dumb who didn't catch your plan for playfield artwork stated elsewhere in the thread, which is not only very possible, but also likely. Everything else about this project has been incredible, and I've loved the attention to detail in every update. Keep it Coming.

#839 5 years ago

voicing opinions is probably ok... but remember; this is HIS machine. His choice how he wants the PF to look.

#840 5 years ago

So, if you go to this video and advance it to around the 7 minute mark you will see 2 of the 3 PPM machines done pretty much like you describe. Personally, I just don't care for it. The back glass is so busy you can't tell what the heck is going on, especially if you've never seen the game before. As for the playfields, they look a little better, but they cover up what the point of the story is to me. Mission #1 is to see how the flippers, drop targets, slingshots, score mechs and pop bumpers work for someone who has never opened the hood on a machine. Mission #2 is to make the machine playable so that the players can enjoy another old EM. (I don't do static displays!)

The first machine they did (Surf Champ, I think) had just black lines outlining the graphics on the P/F and back glass. Again, it was hard to see and really did nothing for me. Probably better in person, but not necessary to me. Believe me, I started the process...

IMG_5582-1.jpg

I am really hoping to be able to do the playfield as I have done the side graphics eventually. (Ver 2.0?) But until I see that it can be done this is what I am going with. I just would really hate to put all that effort into it for naught. I have a test piece for this process in progress. We shall see. Meanwhile, I encourage all suggestions and ideas. Just remember I have been mulling over every detail for two years running and searching for the best solutions.

Speaking of which, I still am looking for a way to neatly plug all the LED sections into the same source. Currently, it's too ugly to show!

#841 5 years ago

PPE '12 was my very first show I volunteered and help set up all those machines, was almost too sore to play almost.

#842 5 years ago

In the mapping software I use there is a labeling technique called "halo". It is particularly useful in making labels more visible on aerial photographs. Softens up those sharp edges. Just a thought. Note the house numbers:

Graham.jpg

#843 5 years ago
Quoted from browne92:

Note the house numbers:

I like the way that looks. The sign cutting software I use at work does a similar thing. You add an outline, then specify the thickness and degree of roundness to it.

The clear has been shot. Tentative results seem to be far better than the first try. The test piece seems to have retained the graphic OK, but we'll see better once it is sanded and cleared. There was some minor orange peel effect but it will be taken care of. Gonna give it 'til the weekend just to be on the safe side.

#844 5 years ago

Looking forward to the next round of pics.

#845 5 years ago

How do you spell "unmitigated disaster?"

Sandblasting it is...**sigh**

#846 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

How do you spell "unmitigated disaster?"
Sandblasting it is...**sigh**

oh man what happened this time?

#847 5 years ago

It just wasn't gonna happen. The clearcoat went on well and stuck like it should. The problem came when I had to sand it smooth and tore the decals right up. There was just not enough of it on there for even 1000 grit to go up and over the decal with out tearing into the edges.

So, back to a 400 grit clearing and I'll probably do it at 600 and then do the sandblasting. Going to look into local car shops to see about getting it cleared properly. Meanwhile, I have scans to turn into line drawings...

#848 5 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

How do you spell "unmitigated disaster?"

...sorry to hear. I'm sure it's frustrating to spend so many hours on this, only to have to re-do so much. If it's any consolation, I'm sure there are a lot of folks like myself who are following this thread and are MORE than impressed with everything you've done to this point. Who knows, perhaps it's for the best in the long run, as you may end up with an awesome solution that looks great and lasts forever. Wishing you GOOD LUCK!

#849 5 years ago

That is such a shame... Sorry to hear that. You are the first person to do this though (that I know of at least), so you can take solace in that. Have you considered applying decals to the underside and foregoing clearing it all together?

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