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(Topic ID: 146487)

"That trick never works!" - Rocky & Bullwinkle Club!


By RDReynolds

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 901 posts
  • 107 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by Bravebluerx
  • Topic is favorited by 49 Pinsiders

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There are 901 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 19.
#801 5 months ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Just got off the phone with Marco and was basically told to pound sand and pay the 20% restocking fee which blows. I may just keep them and see if I can't make them work. Hoping to not have to Dremel the playfield, but it's seemingly either that or use these other Standup targets that Pinball Life has... Not original, but they'd fit. https://www.pinballlife.com/data-eastsegastern-12-x-1-small-rectangle-target-switch.html

that sucks. is there a way to get those to work without using a Dremel?

#802 5 months ago
Quoted from Bax1:

that sucks. is there a way to get those to work without using a Dremel?

Last night I went through the painstaking process of disassembling the target, dropping it through the top of the playfield, and then assembling the switch from underneath, and even doing that, the backing post is still too large and chunky to allow the target to work properly.

Quoted from Kawydud:

I had a similar issue with targets on Data East Star Trek when I was rebuilding it. When it came to R&B, I just ordered Williams targets from PBL. They fit perfect and worked great.

I think I am going to go ahead and do this, even though they look noticeably different. I'm still going to spend some time tonight to see if there isn't a way to get these to fit in some way. They look great, they're just WAY too big.

#803 5 months ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Last night I went through the painstaking process of disassembling the target, dropping it through the top of the playfield, and then assembling the switch from underneath, and even doing that, the backing post is still too large and chunky to allow the target to work properly.

I think I am going to go ahead and do this, even though they look noticeably different. I'm still going to spend some time tonight to see if there isn't a way to get these to fit in some way. They look great, they're just WAY too big.

I bought replacements a couple years ago when I was rebuilding mine. I had to dremel it out a bit but because the neck was a bit wider. The one you show in the picture the target is bigger also. I would take into account that the size difference might affect game play.

#804 5 months ago

so what could be the fix? shave down the backside of it?

#805 5 months ago
Quoted from rwarren28806:

I bought replacements a couple years ago when I was rebuilding mine. I had to dremel it out a bit but because the neck was a bit wider. The one you show in the picture the target is bigger also. I would take into account that the size difference might affect game play.

I am doing my best to not Dremel the playfield and figuring out a way around it. The switch stack is also much larger (taller?) than the originals. I got frustrated last night and decided to just install them without the backing bracket (the metal post that sticks up into the playfield), dropping the target through the topside of the playfield and assembling them from underneath. A total pain in the ass (especially because the screws the pieces from Marco come with are this completely stupid abnormal size and I don't have a nut driver for them). I'm thinking the worst that can happen with those switches installed without their backing post is that the target will break way easier. They all have metal posts with post sleeve rubber behind them already. In the mean time I'm trying to grind down the backing bracket provided and bending it some so that it fits easier.

If neither of these things work (they break and I can't grind down the backing bracket) I will just replace them with the non-3D version of these targets linked previously and keep my eyes out for a NOS set.

#806 5 months ago
Quoted from Bax1:

so what could be the fix? shave down the backside of it?

I looked at in a different perspective I guess. If the targets were a size "A" and now they are a size "B", then I decided why not trim the playfield in back a bit to make them fit. The playfield will never get touched there. It won't affect game play. You don't notice it as the target covers it up. If I have to replace them again (ARGH) I will get the "B" version anyways. A pureist will probably look at it differently but I wanted to fix it and play it.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

BTW, they work perfectly.

#807 5 months ago
Quoted from rwarren28806:

I looked at in a different perspective I guess. If the targets were a size "A" and now they are a size "B", then I decided why not trim the playfield in back a bit to make them fit. The playfield will never get touched there. It won't affect game play. You don't notice it as the target covers it up. If I have to replace them again (ARGH) I will get the "B" version anyways. A pureist will probably look at it differently but I wanted to fix it and play it.

You know, that's a good way to look at it. Last night when doing some more topside buildup, I noticed that it seems like that part of the playfield has already been pretty badly beaten up (I'm assuming from the old bracket) so I will reconsider Dremel'ing the playfield.

Things I"ve learned from totally tearing down the playfield: label everything accurately. Not super pleased with myself having labeled a bag one late night session "You Know What These Are You Dipshit".

#808 5 months ago

I do also want to follow up and say that while I had a subpar experience resolving this issue with Marco Specialties over the phone, I sent a follow up email with pictures and they were much more helpful by engaged in a conversation about the incorrect part. Still working with them to figure out the best solution.

#809 5 months ago

that is good they are going to try and correct it. hopefully they figure that out.

1 week later
#810 5 months ago

I the brackets with the l-shaped lip removed fit perfectly. Will report to Marco.

Additionally, I put a new set of plastics on my game, so if anybody is interested in the lot, as-is, or has some specific pieces they're missing let me know. Quite a few of my old ones are cracked or have scratches but there are plenty of good ones in the lot.

#811 5 months ago

Been toying with the idea of getting a R&B game. How would it compare to something like Road Show, as that's the game it would most likely replace.

-Hans

#812 5 months ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Been toying with the idea of getting a R&B game. How would it compare to something like Road Show, as that's the game it would most likely replace.
-Hans

It's a fun family theme and if dialed in properly a fast game. The ruleset if pretty simple overall IMO. My kids like it, I have had mine for about 18 months and I am ready to get rid of it, but my kids ask me to keep it. It's literally the only game we will "all" play. Personally I think Road Show is a much better game though. Ruleset, shots etc. all better.

#813 5 months ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Been toying with the idea of getting a R&B game. How would it compare to something like Road Show, as that's the game it would most likely replace.
-Hans

Hans if you were closer I would trade you R&B for a RS plus cash on my end, but ugh, the distance! Once I move R&B I will be in the market for one more seriously.

They are both family friendly games (R&B more so than RS in some ways) but definitely has a fairly simple ruleset. I have a friend of mine that I will likely be renting mine to when it's all up and running because he's trying to become a more accurate player and has kids in the home so it seems like a perfect fit.

#814 5 months ago
Quoted from radial_head:

I the brackets with the l-shaped lip removed fit perfectly. Will report to Marco.
Additionally, I put a new set of plastics on my game, so if anybody is interested in the lot, as-is, or has some specific pieces they're missing let me know. Quite a few of my old ones are cracked or have scratches but there are plenty of good ones in the lot.

How is the Boris plastic for the shooter lane? Would be interested in that and the saw blade.

#815 5 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

How is the Boris plastic for the shooter lane? Would be interested in that and the saw blade.

Borris has a crack unfortunately (a lot of them do, which really doesn't make much sense to me). The saw blade is in good shape though. I'll PM you pictures later today.

#816 4 months ago
Quoted from scottacus:

Hello Poetry Pals! I bought a Rocky and Bullwinkle machine a couple of months ago and the Nell motor unit was not working so I tried fixing my motor but a previous owner had already already attempted this to no avail. I then bought a replacement motor from Marco for $64. Unfortunately this motor didn’t have enough torque to drive Nell with the original return spring so sometimes Nell moved towards the saw blade and sometimes Nell moved away from it.
In the original design the Data East designers chose to use an AC asynchronous motor that was geared down to 4RPM to drive the log and saw blade. Asynchronous motors (like the kind in your microwave turntable) will run either clockwise or counterclockwise depending on the starting position. This means that about half the time the motor will run the wrong way and put stress on the reduction gears which eventually fail.
I was frustrated with this because the Nell toy is one of the coolest parts of the machine so I decided to design a direct drop in replacement to fix this. My requirements were that the Nell toy unit that would:
1) always run the correct direction
2) reverse at the end of travel (save Nell or “It’s Curtains!”)
3) not run past the end of travel so that no undue stress is put onto the mechanism.
4) not require any rewiring or other complex electronic work, just plug and play!
To use this new system, the old Nell motor is removed and a new one is put in its place using the holes that mounted the old motor. The original gear and pulley are replaced with a new 3D printed version that can be mounted on the shorter shaft of the new motor. A new driver board with all of the onboard electronics is screwed to the bottom of the playfield in place of the original board and plugged into the native driver board plug (no rewiring). Nell needs to be slid to the far end away from the saw blade and you are ready to go!
Design, testing and manufacturing (Eagle design, custom etching, CNC drill pattern etc) has taken a lot of time so I made three boards since I was set up for production. One is in my machine and has been working great for a few weeks and the other two I’m offering up for sale to the first two Pinsiders who reach out to me via a message on Pinside. The cost for the board and 3D printed parts is $80 and I’ll ship via USPS Priority mail which is $8 for the small flat rate box for the continental US, I'm not sure about Hawaii or Alaska (Total of $88).
I've included photos down below of:
-The driver board mounted under the playfield.
-The motor with mount and printed gear/pulley unit.
-The two units that are for sale and ready to ship.
Here is a youtube video of the unit in action! First I show what happens when Nell is not rescued, note that the log moves at exactly the right speed to just reach the saw blade when "It's Curtains!" Second I show a Nell save. In each case the log moves quickly and smoothly back to it's starting point.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I have to say this Nell Motor mod worked great! I can say that it made the game more fun as for all the years I had the rocky and bullwinkle pin the nell log always ran one way and then another not following the proper operation. Adding this well made and easy to install motor assembly added a huge dimension to the game. I play the game much more now. Can't believe the little change makes such a difference. Well done!!!

#817 4 months ago

Thanks for the kind words JJG8591, there are about a 18 of these units out there in Pinsiders machines. The details are on page 15 of this thread but I've redesigned the unit a coupe of times since the original board pictured in the post. BTW that board is in my machine and puts Nell in peril on a nearly daily basis. The new board design looks like this.

Nell Driver Board and motor (resized).jpg
#818 4 months ago

How much for the latest version? Mine is perfect, and the 7 hours I spent getting it that way .....is......starting to fade. So I could possibly talk myself into changing it.

#819 4 months ago
Quoted from scottacus:

Thanks for the kind words JJG8591, there are about a 18 of these units out there in Pinsiders machines. The details are on page 15 of this thread but I've redesigned the unit a coupe of times since the original board pictured in the post. BTW that board is in my machine and puts Nell in peril on a nearly daily basis. The new board design looks like this.[quoted image]

I put one, in a few months back, and it works great.
Nell runs like never before. Great work here

1 week later
#820 4 months ago

Still working on finishing up my R&B and while I'm about to put in one more order to Comet (well, I guess I should never say last) I'm thinking about trying to come up with some inventive ways to brighten up the back of the game. I'm tempted to try putting a frosted LED strip underneath the plastic that sits above the playfield and wire a line down from the backbox GI... but kind of worried that it would look hokey/off. I'm a lighting nut and really hate bad lighting.

Anybody tried anything that would help? Not interested in Pinstadium lighting (don't like it) and not really sure if there's anywhere in the top area that would fit a spotlight.

#821 4 months ago

I loaded mine up with comet 2smd natural white and the flashers. it brightened up the game a lot. I don't see a need for more but if you do this and it works, I might consider it. with all the ramps and wire forms, you don't see much back there anyways.

#822 4 months ago

so fellow club members. have some questions about game play. every Thursday has been thirsty Thursday and I go have some beers and play some pins. so far my best game on this damn machine is 249 mill. is there a wizard mode? what is your best game on this? I just want to put my name on the dang board

#823 4 months ago
Quoted from Bax1:

so fellow club members. have some questions about game play. every Thursday has been thirsty Thursday and I go have some beers and play some pins. so far my best game on this damn machine is 249 mill. is there a wizard mode? what is your best game on this? I just want to put my name on the dang board

The Jackpot is very lucrative during multiball. Hit the Jackpot and then get the super Jackpot, left ramp builds the values and right cashes em in. I usually let one ball go quick since mine is setup insanely fast. But I can usually get in the 400M area with this strategy.

#824 4 months ago
Quoted from JDub03:

The Jackpot is very lucrative during multiball. Hit the Jackpot and then get the super Jackpot, left ramp builds the values and right cashes em in. I usually let one ball go quick since mine is setup insanely fast. But I can usually get in the 400M area with this strategy.

mine is very fast too. I may be going after the jackpot to early. you have to get it in the hat trick to light the jackpot in multi ball right?

#825 4 months ago

anyone else have some tips and tricks? is there a wizard mode?

#826 4 months ago
Quoted from Bax1:

anyone else have some tips and tricks? is there a wizard mode?

The "wizard mode" is the Wabac mode which is kind of peanuts unless you backhand that ramp a million times without fail. Kind of lame wizard mode if you ask me. I find that the Save Nel mode is huge points, for little effort (so long as you have the "any drop spots Nel" setting on).
Tri-ball is really the only good way to get points on this game. Bullwinkle's Treasure is the super jackpot that is worth 100mil and it isn't that impossible to get. I think my best score on it at home is somewhere in the 500mil zone but I had to reset the game a bunch and don't have those scores recorded.

#827 4 months ago

Not mine, but figured I would post it here as it seems like a good deal for someone who needs it.
NOS playfield for sale over on KLOV for $400
Has a couple cracked inserts, but still sounds cheap.

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=460640

#828 4 months ago

I've been running into this issue with my RnB where the rhino plastic doesn't go back down on its own. The coil retracts and everything, but there's just something about the plastic that doesn't return to its normal position. I've baked every plastic and flattened them out, but there's just something that doesn't seem to want to go. I've even cleaned the tracks that they all sit on and still nothing. Anybody else have this issue? Thinking it might be a gunked up coil sleeve possibly?

#829 4 months ago

I have that issue with the lion. I know the lion is a higher voltage coil so that could be my issue. I need to do the mod. I would start with checking the sleeve and making sure the mech is moving smoothly through it but it could also be the track.

#830 4 months ago

It ended up being a combination of a few issues:

Coil sleeve was dirty. Cleaned it.
Rhino Plastic was bent. Flattened it.
Track is a little gummy/eroded. Have yet to clean it.
Sadly in the process I broke Bullwinkle's arm.

The hat trick toy is pretty fun, but it's pretty terribly designed if you ask me. I see no reason these pieces shouldn't have been designed so they were pulled upward from above rather than pushed upward from below. Just seems far more complicated than it needs to be.

2 weeks later
#831 3 months ago

Alright, with all of that, plastic flattened, track cleaned, coil sleeve cleaned (it is one with a lip that I didn't have on hand), foam on the bottom to catch their falls replaced, wires re-soldered. Arm mechanism replaced and tuned. NOTHING will make the rhino go down. I'm considering adding a weight to it on the bottom to see if that helps its natural fall, but outside of replacing that track, which I don't think exists online, I'm stumped. I might see if a friend can 3D Print a new, more resilient track, but that seems VERY extreme.

Any thoughts?

#832 3 months ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Alright, with all of that, plastic flattened, track cleaned, coil sleeve cleaned (it is one with a lip that I didn't have on hand), foam on the bottom to catch their falls replaced, wires re-soldered. Arm mechanism replaced and tuned. NOTHING will make the rhino go down. I'm considering adding a weight to it on the bottom to see if that helps its natural fall, but outside of replacing that track, which I don't think exists online, I'm stumped. I might see if a friend can 3D Print a new, more resilient track, but that seems VERY extreme.
Any thoughts?

If it is not going down on it's own is it binding anywhere? Maybe just half a drop of the teflon superlube at the pivot point? Sounds like there is still binding or resistance to movement somewhere.

#833 3 months ago

Lubricated everything and nothing was helping. I decided to take the whole thing apart again to really analyze what was wrong with this one.

When I first got this game, one of the hat trick targets had been clipped, ostensibly to try and remedy the lion target that was flying out of its track (the jnsert was just hella warped). I noticed that when I removed the left track for the rhino plastic, it worked perfectly, so this got me thinking. I reinstalled the track and noticed that due to the long pivot point of the Rhino coil arm attachment, the plastic was getting caught on the lower half of the longer track plastic.

Light bulb! Swapped the already clipped track from the lion plastic with the full one with the rhino. Works perfectly now.

The shorter (clipped?) long track looks visibly modified, so potentially somebody has already fixed this before and then reinstalled the tracks wrong? I can’t say.

What I can say is that my R&B is finally working 100% and I’m happy to finally send it off to a new home. Renting this one out to a buddy of mine who has some young ones he’s trying to get into the hobby. Seems like a good fit.

AF8B6686-502F-4D8D-8D05-7B040081F34D (resized).jpeg
#834 3 months ago

I posted this a couple years ago when I finished coloring RAB, since then, there have been a lot of new owners join the club.
So here’s my plug for the best upgrade for your machine
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/colordmd-announces-game-60-rocky-and-bullwinkle#post-3872132

Quoted from MadMaxDad:

If you want to see some before (Orange) and after (Color) screen shots of the ColorDMD for Bullwinkle - I posted them on the ColorDMD Announces 60th Game! Rocky and Bullwinkle - VIDEO PREVIEW! topic
Bullwinkle shows up better on the LED display than on the these screen shots.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

99DF41F3-EA2F-465A-BE3A-3AD5283FE2A6 (resized).jpeg
#835 3 months ago

Yeah, I think a ColorDMD looks killer in this game. Wish I hadn't already sunk $600+ into this shop job I would be all over a colorDMD. Wish that the return on this game was something that warranted a new backglass, color DMD, and new cabinet decals, mine are junk.

#836 3 months ago

Just installed ColorDMD and am thrilled with the results. R&B was our first pin and will be the last to go. Nearly 20 years of ownership and it makes me smile every time it’s powered on! ColorDMD is the best mod EVER!

#837 3 months ago

I've recently picked up a R&B and have noticed that the 'Hat Trick' shot (left orbit diverted to a VUK) bounces back about 50% of the time. I was curious if other owners experience this and if there is a known fix before digging into it.

Thanks!

#838 3 months ago
Quoted from NoMonkey:

I've recently picked up a R&B and have noticed that the 'Hat Trick' shot (left orbit diverted to a VUK) bounces back about 50% of the time. I was curious if other owners experience this and if there is a known fix before digging into it.
Thanks!

I would check the coil and mech for the diverter to make sure it is opening up far enough and long enough to allow the ball to be diverted into the VUK. if the sleeve or linkage/coil stops or something are not in great condition, I could see it partially opening and causing the ball to not make it in there.

Also, any obstructions in the path to the VUK? Game is not set too steep? Flippers are powerful enough to launch the ball around the orbits normally?

#839 3 months ago
Quoted from JoshODBrown:

I would check the coil and mech for the diverter to make sure it is opening up far enough and long enough to allow the ball to be diverted into the VUK. if the sleeve or linkage/coil stops or something are not in great condition, I could see it partially opening and causing the ball to not make it in there.
Also, any obstructions in the path to the VUK? Game is not set too steep? Flippers are powerful enough to launch the ball around the orbits normally?

Thanks for the reply. I should have mentioned that this was after rebuilding all coils, mechs, top-side teardown/clean. The diverter works well and directs the ball no problem. It's just at high speeds it appears to bounce off of the back bracket above the hole to send it off at an odd angle. I'll just tweak on the guides around the hole. Probably just need to square them up a bit.

#840 3 months ago
Quoted from NoMonkey:

Thanks for the reply. I should have mentioned that this was after rebuilding all coils, mechs, top-side teardown/clean. The diverter works well and directs the ball no problem. It's just at high speeds it appears to bounce off of the back bracket above the hole to send it off at an odd angle. I'll just tweak on the guides around the hole. Probably just need to square them up a bit.

One thing that has helped me a few time with shots that have bad feeds was running the slow motion video record from my phone and capture the shot failing. It let me see where my ball might have been getting hung up along its path and what i could bend/adjust to clean the feed up.

#841 3 months ago
Quoted from NoMonkey:

I've recently picked up a R&B and have noticed that the 'Hat Trick' shot (left orbit diverted to a VUK) bounces back about 50% of the time. I was curious if other owners experience this and if there is a known fix before digging into it.

I was recently chatting with a friend of mine who was having a similar issue with his R&B. I was having an issue similar with the SuperVUK on the puzzle subway, but fixed it by rebuilding and readjusting the depth of the scoop catch/launch mechanism. I don't have this problem with mine, so I haven't futzed with the upper playfield VUK, but I wouldn't doubt if it has some sort of depth control adjustment within the bracket.

It not that, I guess you could adjust or try bending the metal guard/deflector on the back of that shot. Might not be sitting just right.

1 week later
#842 3 months ago

New issue for me. Coils stopped working. Replaced the bridge that attaches to the head. Everything worked fine for 2 months. Now the coils have stopped working again. I assume it’s the bridge again. Seems I am working on the symptom, not the cure. Will check coils, diodes and trannys. Any suggestions? Thanks

#843 3 months ago

before replacing the bridge, test it. not a super tech but if the bridge blew again, there has to be a spike blowing it. so a bridge switches the voltage ac/dc. would need to look at schematics but may need to look at transformer to make sure you are getting correct voltages.

#844 3 months ago

anyone know how to adjust bullwinkles arm in the backbox? all of the inserts keep getting stuck behind the arm and then stay up. any thoughts on that?

#845 3 months ago
Quoted from Bax1:

anyone know how to adjust bullwinkles arm in the backbox? all of the inserts keep getting stuck behind the arm and then stay up. any thoughts on that?

No adjustment that I'm aware of. Do you have the correct washers and spacer at the end of the arm?

Bullwinkle 001 (resized).JPGBullwinkle 002 (resized).JPG
#846 3 months ago

If you haven't done so, I would suggest placing a felt washer over the screw head which pivots the arm at Bullwinkle's shoulder. If/when that screw works loose, the paint will be removed at Bullwinkle's nose.

#847 3 months ago

I have to check the back part but I think I have the washers on there. I'll check when I'm done with work

#848 3 months ago

There’s my problem. Don’t have the back washer. I hope I can find one at the hardware store

A75BF206-621A-4C34-B8CD-D88B3429D146 (resized).jpeg
#849 3 months ago

Is that rear washer metal, nylon, or plastic like the front one

#850 3 months ago
Quoted from Bax1:

Is that rear washer metal, nylon, or plastic like the front one

Metal. Look for a ‘fender washer’.

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