Dads who focus only on their passion and not their children can have a lasting negative impact also.

Dogs.. Dogs are the future of pinball.

Sasha, with the "you're 5 minutes late on taking me for our daily walk" pose.. Such a drama queen.

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If you want to be taken seriously as a convention organizer, typing in caps like a thirteen-year-old girl isn't the way to go. All of your comments appear emotional and personal. Your own comments outline the underlying issue with Expo.... you and Rob are the only two setting up a major convention. Frankly, it's likely not adequate for the scope of the event and because it is just you and Rob, if issues get personal with vendors/attendees there isn't anyone else to address issues with. Hence, things likely get heated too quickly and objectiveness is lost. The VFW show has far fewer attendees and it is organized by at least 10x the number of people. It's one of the reasons why it goes so smoothly. I've attended Expo several years and my comments about you personally is that you don't appear to be interested in a cooperative effort. Even at your booth, the odds are that dealing with you is a chore rather than a pleasant experience.

I realize these critiques are personal, but they are observations that I'm making in both from dealing with you as an attendee, a potential customer and a member of Pinside viewing your comments.

But they will have money and transportation soon.

That's where your argument falls down.

The 5-10 year old kids playing pinball at my pin meets (and we have a lot of them) are going to be buying machines in 10-20 years, when all the hipsters are hitting the retirement homes.

Exactly the same cycle as you and I went through when we were young.
- play a pinball somewhere (be it an arcade or a home, doesn't matter...)
- decide you like it (or don't like it)
- keep playing them when you get a chance to
- eventually maybe buy one for your home

That's what probably 90% of the guys on this forum did. Played pinball as a kid, now they own one.

The future will be no different.

Like your son, not everyone is into pinball. Some like it, some don't. It's just the way it is. I don't particularly like Xbox or PlayStation, but lots of people sit around playing them all day.

I have two daughters. The oldest one wouldn't care if she ever saw a pinball machine again. The younger one is the 8th best woman player in the world.

Young people ARE the future of pinball. They are the future of everything.

rd

This pretty much sums it up.....^^^^

My machines are open to all of my kids and their friends/ parents, etc. when they are at the house....some love them, some could care less, but at least they all get to "experience" well maintained, cared for examples. This at least gives the hobby a chance, as opposed to beaters on route that are usually broken and just take their $$$.

Will they remember/ buy an Xbox 360 when they have disposable income for toys down the road? Hell no...it will be the " latest/ greatest".....but might they seek out that tricked out SM that mesmerized them as a kid? A good chance....I wouldn't underestimate the " wow factor" in these machines...

Sorry..seems topic has drifted....back to the dog pics...and thank you to all the people who are passionate about this hobby!!!...mark

That's one side of the story. But, let's say that's right. Who got hurt by Mike banning Gene from Expo? Rob Berk, for one. Mike Pacak for another. Plus any of Mike's own Expo paying customers who would have liked to buy parts from Gene at Expo without trekking down to the Runway Motel.

And it didn't get Mike a BBB, did it?

I didn't get into pinball until I was in my 20's. The hipsters flooding into the hobby now didn't get into it until their 20's either. I kind of agree with Clay on this one.

I don't think that anyone needs to do anything, it's humming along the best it's ever been since the 90s and expecting it to get better is missing that fact. Better to encourage young people with disposable income who might buy a game NOW rather than buy one 20 years from now.

My young kids just told me they are going to keep pinball alive when they get older but not change the diapers of the old cranky guys that cast doubt upon them.

Haha that's so true.... Mind you, some of the old dudes are so crazy, uptight and constipated, the diapers won't need to be changed too often.

rd

That is all my old man did, work on our shitty cars every weekend. Not me - I won't do jack on my car outside of washing them.

I have 4 grandchildren, ages 8, 7, 6 and 5. They ALL love my pins! In fact, the 7 year old boy is an excellent player . . . better than adults who visit here . . . and he is beginning to help me make repairs and UNDERSTAND the workings of a pin. He just doesn't flail balls, he's a competitive player. He's gaining knowledge and I'm sure someday he will inherit my pins and keep them going. In fact, he gets VERY upset if I sell a pin and is always looking at pinball websites with me asking me "Get this one! We need this one Papa!!! Doesn't it look like a lot of fun?!" I'm sure a lot of kids have no interest in them, but at least with my bunch, the 'addiction' has rooted and I'm positive they will not let the pins die around here.

On a funny note . . . having read some comments about guys working with their fathers . . . mine was an expert in just about anything concerning building and repairing. He was an electrician, a plumber, a 'furnace man' and worked on cars. When I was young and 'helped' him, I was just mostly in his way. I got to hold the flashlight or go get a tool. It was all boring to me. I remember him saying over and over, "You need to pay attention because some day I won't be around to fix all your stuff. Learn it NOW so you can do it yourself later on." Well, he has been dead about 10 years and those words echo in my head all the time. Yeah, I can fix most things, but he was SO right. I now have to PAY people to come and fix various things around my home or my cars that are over my head. My dad NEVER would pay someone else to fix something. By the looks of what I have read on here tonight, a whole bunch of us have been down this road! Ha.
Mike in Kentucky

My daughter started playing pinball when she was 5. She never liked video games because they were always the same. She's getting married next year and she wants to have a couple of pinball machines at the reception. She's already said that one of the hardest decisions for their planning is which two she wants there.

If kids are exposed to pinball when they are young, they may still be interested when they are older. But they certainly won't be if they don't know what pinball is.

I don't recall asking for a dissertation on the issue; I simply answered why Gene isn't welcome at Expo However, I will respond with my own mini-rant: Gene's prices at the no-tell motel were ridiculous, and quality was oftentimes crap. Do you remember his CV playfields that looked like they were printed with a 1990s HP deskjet? I don't think him being absent was a huge loss for Expo, but to each their own.

Well my son loves helping me restore my car and has let me know it is his one day.
He has also learned how to work on it so some hack mechanic doesn't get his grubby hands on it.
The rebuilt engine will be here on the 28th, a mild build only 425 HP built by Jim L. at CVMS the guy that wrote the book on Pontiac engines.
Almost done and it looks just like it did the day it rolled out of the Fremont plant on 5/5/67.

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I am saving this spot
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to post a pic of my dog, once i find my camera.

Its been an interesting hour or two reading this topic's posts,
while half watching some College football. GO Stanford.

cheers tom
I was a kid once
but kids will never be the same
as video games and the internet ruined them all.

Why save. Just post when you find one. Here is a pic of my Molly wanting the belly rub. Oh, and the kids I have be encouraging for pinball. From repair to love. 20s and 30s.

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Has the issue between Borygard and Mike been resolved?

The best way to get kids into pinball again is to make it illegal and tell them they can no longer do it. look at all the movies from the 70s if there are any hooligans they are playing pinball.

-c

Or sway something, one way or the other!

hahahaha.

Adds a whole nother layer to the tournament.WPPR points could be awarded.

you could be ranked.Overheard at Expo. "Dude Im in 185th place ."

Expo was fun. I met a lot of people who care about pinball. Good stuff.

Reading about how some folks care about forcing pinball on their kids more than their kids' own natural interests? This is not good stuff.

Does no one recall when it was decreed that pinball was ruining the youth of the day? Let's stop vilifying competing diversions.

Have you heard? TV is ruining kids today. Radio doesn't stand a chance! Also: what's a podcast?

Pinball will be fine. Its the kids of some of those posting here that I'm worried about.

Exactly how it was for me when I was younger. You can't really help out so holding the flashlight is just a way to feel involved and maybe learn something. But when it's not your house, your car, your mower, etc.. then there's only so much you can be interested -- and not want to just get back to whatever thing you were doing that interested you more (video games, playing outside, etc). I'd imagine that's how it was for a lot of sons.

The sad thing today is, there's A LOT of guys that have no idea how to do really *anything* beyond what their professions are. Society caused this over time.. pushing people into corporate career paths with the goal of climbing a ladder to make more money -- paying people to do things for you. It's created a lot more metrosexual type of guys that can't really fix or build anything.. then they have children and can't teach them how to fix or build anything either. Kind of sad really.. far away from the more primal male roles of our ancestors or the generations before us where many more guys knew how to fix and build things because their fathers passed that down to them & that's just what guys did. Office jobs have not been helpful to the evolution there.

Anyway, I'd heard the same thing myself growing up.. even in my 20s .. "some day I won't be around". Those words didn't sink in as much until I bought a house about 8 years ago & realized just how much I didn't know. Ever since I've valued what my father could teach me.. I've paid attention a lot more, I've learned a lot more. Some people.. it just hits you later in life. So there still might be hope for fathers that can fix & build.. that have tried to teach their kid how to fix things and feel it's a hopeless endeavor. The kid just has to reach a point in life where it matters to them.. where they buy a car or house.. or something that breaks and needs to be fixed that they care about. Or they need to value general guy knowledge and not want to be someone that can't do much more but change a light-bulb. So to those fathers..don't give up! It's a great skill-set to pass down from generation to generation if you can. Living proof here that it can happen

It was at Pinball Life.

It was at Pintastic back in July, too.

That is a beauty. Keep in mind that my childhood wasn't spent restoring nice cars, but keep shitty ones that cost $200 on the road.

Gene's show in another motel was never a real sucesss even with all those hard to find or get parts. Often he closed early or just coukd not ge found. I was really wanting that CV playfield he was promoting.

Excellent commentary! You hit it on the head!

I DID learn a lot about electricity from my father. I wired my own house. My usual operational mode is, wire it up and if it doesn't shock the piss out of me or fire doesn't fly, then I must have it right!
Mike in Kentucky

There is a long curve when it comes to keeping kids interested in pinball when they grow up with it in the house. No disrepect, but anyone who says their 3 to 13 year old is into pinball and thinks that will never change is most likely wrong. My son is 17 (almost 18). He has never known our house to not have pinball machines. He loved it for many years. Children of parents who love and pay attention to them love to be with their parents and love the things their parents love. It just makes sense.

Once puberty hits it's a whole other ballgame though. Part of the growing up process is the separation (of sorts) from your parents. You have to go through this process in order to become an adult that can self sustain. It's natural and important. During this period teenagers somewhat need to think all the stuff their parents like is uncool. I see no need to take this personal, I actually see it as a good sign that my teenager is taking an important step to becoming a solid young adult.

Yes, we still love each other and respect each other, but hanging out every Saturday night? No. Seems unhealthy. Being with his friend group and doing 17 year old stuff is what he should be doing. Pinball is not 17 year old stuff. Oh sure, any teenager who has not been in our basement before will play a few games, but it will never be the center of their activities.

I have to agree with Clay that kids are not the future of pinball. The term *kids* applies to a certain age group, so the persons in this group are transcient and always changing. It's not until they are adults that they will decide what they like and how they will spend their money.

Longterm, I do not see much evidence that kids who grow up with pinball machines in the house are more or less onto pinball as adults. Sure, my son could come back to pinball, and I hope he does as I enjoyed sharing my hobby with him, but just the simple fact that he grew up with it in the house and loved it because I love it will not be much, if any, of a factor.

When my son and I play pinball now it's because he knows I enjoy it. He's a good son and still wants to make his dad happy.

Being surrounded by something in your youth can be a double edged sword. You may embrace the thing as an adult or you my reject it. As an adult you get to decide.

All this IMHO, of course.

But planting the pinball "seed" is what needs to be done. That's why I feel kids are so important when it comes to the future of pinball. Of course they're not going to buy pins, but once they reach that hipster age, maybe pinball is what they fondly remember sharing with someone like a father and decide they want it back in their life.

My son was just like your's, Terry. He grew out with pins in his basement but never showed a ton of interest in them. Sure, he'd play now and then, but for the most part, he did what most kids his age did, which didn't involve pinball.

Now that he's 30 and owns his own home, he wants to get involved again. And the best part is, he's getting his 3 year old son involved too....and so it goes.

Kids are the future of pinball:

Because every time there is one at a neighborhood garage sale, they all come running to my door to inform me.

That's the key. Just like a plant .. You put a seed in the ground, it might grow, it might not. But if you don't plant it, it definitely won't grow.

Never force your kids to do anything. With Danni_nz, she started playing when she was 3. She just wanted to play. Then at about 8 she lost interest. A few years ago she started again. She could stop again tomorrow. Her call. No worries to me either way, she's free to do what she wants.

rd

This. I have young men come to work for me that don't know what a Phillips head screw driver is.
Yes, I'm serious. They have no clue about simple hand tools.

It's evolving though.. The whole "maker' movement is about getting back to making stuff but using today's technologies like circuits and 3d printers. They just had a Maker Faire here in San Diego a few weeks ago with a booth showing kids how to solder. Plus you have stuff like FIRST robotics competition.. Man I would of killed to have something like that when I was a kid.

until she buys her first piston.......ugh the day I dread lol

I'll give her the hearse for her 17th birthday. That'd be a hit at school. And she can haul my pins.

Double win.

rd

I often find adults to be even more overrated.

Yes indeed it was there! I played it and I loved it.

+ 1

He's saved me at multiple shows.
So glad he's there.

you should build a 6 rotor for it :0

Pick her up one of these. I just pulled this out of a barn. 25xxx original Miles

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Dont start that yet. If you need help contact rotor heads like me or Dave. I would soak the shit out of that thing in atf and reverse spin it/

Yeah man. Heaps of oil into the rotors or else the seals will snap.

Cool barn find!!

rd

Yeah if youre doing it right intake and exhaust is coming off and atf is going in

Would be great to see it at mgc sometime!

And SFGE, TPF, and a few others. They got around this year.