(Topic ID: 117286)

TFTC right flipper issue.


By Shoot_Again

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by joe2012
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

STORY: long version.

Hey guys I am looking to you for knowledge of parts and expertise.

I have TFTC and the lower right flipper was in a bind and only flipping part way up and then stopping.

I took it apart and found some alignment issues both at the end of the linkage being sloppy and the depth at which the shaft was set in the PF. I also checked plungers, arms and coil stops and all look very good outside of some gunk which I cleaned up. I readjusted both alignment issues and the flipper has full power and flips all the way up with full range... But at the end of the flip it sticks in up position for a fraction of a second and falls on its own accord. I checked contact of EOS via DMM and adjusted the open gap to aprox 3mm. No change. I then proceeded to swap the diode and band and wires all oriented the same as I took pictures to be sure. Here is the NOOB move. I got in a hurry mounted it back up and forgot to clip the diode end leads :/ I blew 5A slow blow F5 on PPB board. I removed solenoid and clipped leads that were shorting now against the backing plate. I replaced the fuse and turned machine on pressed start and flipper went to up position. I turned it off and it fell. I rechecked above things. Realized that the gap was not right on the second set of leaf switches at the flipper button. I am sure this was me messing with things. I fixed this and flipper is now just dead it does not go up on startup but does not fire either. I then moved to the under PF flipper control board on the left side of the cabinet. It also blew 3A slow blow fuse F1 so I replaced this and checked all above again. No change. I then looked through the schematic and could not figure out for the life of me if A,B,C flipper was lower right flipper so I followed the line on switch B and swapped out Q12 on flipper board 2n3096. I then realized the one I pulled tests fine
Still the same result when everything installed. Note: I did not mess up the left flipper it is still good with new component. I then noticed a second reference chart on page 84 of the manual that stated which flipper was A (right),B (left),C (upper right)
(damn digital copies)

QUESTION:
1. Am I on the right track? lol
2. Are the following driver transistors correct?
Right flipper(A) driver Q6
Left flipper(B) driver Q12
Upper right flipper(C) NAND gate into Q18

3. Should I replace anything more than the correct driver transistor on the flipper driver board Q12?
4. Anything else to check or replace while I am elbows deep?

Thanks and sorry it got really long winded.

#2 4 years ago

Heading to get more transistors. Parts run bump any thoughts?

#3 4 years ago

Ok changed out 3A slow blow again and replaced Q6 as well.

Now when I turn it on and start a game the flipper moves to up position and stays until power off aprox 2-3seconds.

Any Ideas

#4 4 years ago

So the flipper only goes up now when you start a game? Does flipping the good flipper make it drop? Your original issue could be a magnetized coil stop.

#5 4 years ago

turning off makes it drop. I am thinking of removing diode and solenoid from circuit again and retesting. I am thinking either diode, low power on solenoid or maybe there is something else driving it besides Q6..

I turn machine on and it finishes boot up.

I press start then
1st target bank resets
2nd right flipper goes up
3rd ball shoots into shooter lane

left flip worked last time before changing things the right button made upper right work but lower right stays up position until power off. At this point it is surely electrical and not the original issue at all. I do not want to do anything at this point but turn on observe for maybe 3 seconds and turn it off.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Trying to sell or workout trade and then this happened great timing as always

#6 4 years ago

Ordered new coil

Thanks for all your help

#7 4 years ago

new coil and diode installed no change.

Turn game on and goes through boot no problem.

Press start and right flipper goes up and stays up until power off.

Ideas? Been fighting this for a week.... anyone?

#8 4 years ago

bump ideas?

#10 4 years ago

I have a TFTC but don't know how the flippers are managed but if this was on an older style flipper I'd suspect a short in the wiring since it's triggering as soon as power is sent to the flippers.

#11 4 years ago

thank you I might have to look into that next.
Any other ideas bump bump

#12 4 years ago

Have you read the flipper section here? http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wpc/index2.htm#flip0

I would check the solder points on your flipper coil. Aside from that I am also noobish so can't get too deep. Good luck!

#13 4 years ago

Go to pinwiki's data east section. D.E. flippers are not like wpc flippers.If the flipper locks on at start of game ,I would start with checking the transistors for that flipper. g.l. joe

#14 4 years ago

Hey Joe any chance you can confirm which transistor?
As stated above I already changed them. I know it is a little much for most to read but I just wanted to give all details.

As for the solder I already re-soldered to start then to change first diode then to change out with new solenoid and diode. I also checked spacing and continuity on EOS as well as re-solder for good measure.

Thank you both for ideas anything helps.

Bump for more info and ideas.

#15 4 years ago

I don't have the game but I would retest Q6 and Q12 on the cpu.and the trans. Q3 on the flipper board. g.l. Joe

#16 4 years ago

I did replace q6 and q12 but both were located on the flipper board. I will recheck both. I did not check q3 so I will do that. thanks again all who had suggestions.

#17 4 years ago

Does it have the original Data East flipper board? Just curious.

From what I remember, this can be a flipper coil diode issue I've experienced on a TFTC, and replacing the diode fixed the raised flipper problem.

I did some digging to try and see if I was remembering correctly about the diodes and came across this from another post:

Quoted from RussMyers:

On DE games with the Deger flipper board, if the diode on the flipper coil is broken, you can get the symtoms you describe. Try replacing the diode on the flipper coil.

From here: http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index2.htm#flip0

"Flipper Gets Stuck in the Up Position...
Before proceeding with repair, first determine if the stuck flipper is a mechanical or electrical problem. If the flipper is stuck in the "up" position, turn the game off. Does the flipper return to its normal "down" position? If so, the problem is electrical. Otherwise if the flipper stays up even when the game is turned off, then the problem is mechanical.

Electrical: On Deger (Playboy, Monday Night Football) and solidstate flipper games (Robocop and later), check the flipper coil diode. If the flipper coil diode is broken or shorted on, the flipper coil will stay energized after using it. Replace this diode with a new 1N4004 or 1N4007 diode. The counter EMF (Electro-Motive Force) produced by the magnetic field in the coil collapsing is a reverse polarity voltage. This reverse polarity voltage can cause damage to the flipper board. In most cases, it will gate the SCR (Silicon Controlled Rectifier) in the holding voltage circuit, causing the flipper to remain energized as if the player was holding the cabinet flipper button in. This was mentioned in service bulletin number 58. "

#18 4 years ago

Looks like q3 is testing bad. Go J.O.E knowing is half the battle

All mentioned transistors are located on the flipper driver board mounted inside the cabinet on the left side below the PF.

So my error it looks so far was replacing the
low power (signal) transistor Q6,12,18 (2n3096)
not the high power (driver) transistor. Q3,10,16 (TIP36C)

Q3 should do the trick I will make it to the store tomorrow and swap this part out.

I will report back here so hopefully no one else will make my same mistake.

Thanks again for all of your help

Hopefully tomorrow I will play some pinball

#19 4 years ago

I'm glad you got it!!!! BUT you need to test all transistors and coil diodes again to make sure they are all good.Test them all before you turn the game on. g.l. joe

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