(Topic ID: 148683)

Texas Pinball Fest 2016 Tourney: New and Improved!


By Snailman

3 years ago



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  • 234 posts
  • 53 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by mike21878
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    There are 234 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    also take up time when others that were only able to make it late on Friday and Saturday were trying to just get a game on each machine

    dirty pool, old man. but, fear not. the real tpf party is friday 11am - 4:59pm

    #152 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinBackpacker:

    I'm happy they've made this change now rather than have 160 angry people that couldn't fit in their 30 plays.

    I am convinced I would have gotten through my 30 plays no problem so I would not have been one of the angry people. I knew the contraints/parameters and planned accordingly to take advantage

    Quoted from PinBackpacker:

    Still looking forward to a great time,

    agreed!

    #153 3 years ago

    Josh - I'd like for you to change the rules at PAPA (just an example as I don't recall you running that one) a couple of days before the tournament and see how many that are giving whysnow crap change their tune. Obviously I'm only being sarcastic (figured I'd throw that in since nobody can tell my tone on the internet).

    While I don't feel the same way as whysnow I'm disappointed to see all the crap he is getting for saying he is frustrated about what occurred. I have a feeling it's because us Austin people (most vocal against him) know Colin and know he is one of the most stand up guys around and we know that this hickup probably kept him sick in his stomach and up at night for weeks trying to figure out a solution. Taking on this task was huge and I applaud him for what he is doing. He deserves the feedback though (good and bad) so that we as a community can make things even better next year.

    Going from Josh's groupings I fall in category 2. I'm just happy to play in a tournament and am hoping to do good and to be able to help Colin make things run as smooth as possible. But I'm not going to look down on someone that is in category 1 or 2 and is upset about what changed. I've been hesitant to speak up more about this as I don't want to add fuel to anything or to offend Colin or Josh. I think they both know I respect them greatly but I thought it needed to be said.

    I just hope we can finally all move on from this.

    #154 3 years ago

    Well said and good points. I am definitely defensive because I know the tourney directors take it very seriously and want it to go smoothly, just for the love of the game. Same as Marcus last year and he caught tons of shit for the problems that happened.
    Keep trashing the tourney directors and then people can wonder why there's no tournament....

    #155 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    As of now I have off on Thursday and Friday, flying out on Thursday morning with the plan to be well rested and ready to play 20 of my 30 plays on Friday. My plan was then to use my last 10 plays on Saturday to finish off my advantage and also take up time when others that were only able to make it late on Friday and Saturday were trying to just get a game on each machine.

    I love that you're complaining about the reduction of available plays, and yet your "strategy" is based completely around other people not getting to play all their plays...

    Just go, compete and have fun. Stop nickel and diming everything.

    #156 3 years ago

    Simple solution here would be to add six more pinballs to the tournament keep the entries at 30 and then everybody is happy including myself!

    #157 3 years ago

    Funny enough in my phone call with Colin, I played the role of 'pissed off tournament player'.

    I gave him various options of what kind of pissed off player he wanted to deal with, because there was NO SOLUTION where he wasn't going to piss off a large group of people.

    I think he chose the best path possible, although for Pinside karma points it would have probably been best to choose the option that pissed Hilton off the least

    I'm really digging all the people that are saying they are dead money, because I know from experience with this format that it should be the "A" players that are sweating. There will be some surprises in that top 16, you heard it here first!!!

    #158 3 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    there was NO SOLUTION where he wasn't going to piss off a large group of people.

    but there still IS an amended solution where he can make more people much happier

    #159 3 years ago

    thanking my lucky stars i waited on buying a tournament entry. count me out.

    #160 3 years ago

    I'm also a little confused by only taking 16 players. LAX had 132 players, of which probably about 90 were actual competitors and they took 24 plus another 16 in B division. I did read about finals being on Saturday instead of Sunday. So why the self-imposed time constraints?

    #161 3 years ago

    God..I wish I was going to be here for TPF just to roll this tournament as people drop out and play poorly because they're too focused on the negatives to play effectively under pressure (Go ahead...ask me how I know that's a thing! ).

    #162 3 years ago

    bummed you wont be around Frax! I was really looking forward to meeting you (esp since I think my inlaws live about 2 min from where you live > whispering hills/buckingham area in liberty jr high neighborhood)

    #163 3 years ago

    I want to thank the organizers for dropping it to 20 plays. I was concerned about being able to "get in" 30 plays and still have time to roam the floor. Essentially 2x tries per machine and prove your prowess is a much better indicator of raw pinball skill. Had you announced 20 plays in the beginning I would have signed up sooner than last week - it's simply a better way to do the tourney considering the mind-blowing general admission area. AWESOME decision!

    #164 3 years ago

    also wanted to say, please dont take anything personal snailman or other organizers! I love your passion and I am one of you. I am an opinionated Pr!ck at times but it is all for the passion of the silverball and making the whole event better. As you all know I tend to not be good in text on the web, but my heart is in the right place with my opinions.

    I am very thankful for all you do to host and put on an event like this. As an event organizer myself I am especially thankful because I rarely (never) get to come and let someone else deal with the BS. Sincerely > thanks!

    I share because I care (insert rainbow care bear high fiving emoticon)

    #165 3 years ago

    I have no stake in this particular event since I am not going (will be in Vegas supporting and cheering on my son Atticus at Nationals and having other family fun out west). However, I have participated in tourneys, and I, like many others, have my share of opinions about this proposed event and tourneys in general.

    First off: I know Colin and I trust Colin and the others are doing whatever they can to make this work and there was nothing intentionally done to slight players. It really just sounds like they are trying to best solve a logistical mess. Next weekend will show all of the good things about this tourney as well as the flaws.

    That being said, I would say that any format setup that restricts play is going to encounter resistance. Players dislike waiting in long lines and moreover being told no more plays allowed.

    The number one thing that tourney players want to be able to do is *play to one's heart's content*. That's it.

    The benefit of an unlimited Herb qualifying format or PAPA qualifying format is anyone should be able to play as much as desired, and can stop at any time. Qualify in one entry, or keep at it and squeak in at that last possible game at midnight.

    That usually generates knee-jerk reactions of the beaten to death discussions about doing away with pump and dump formats to promote fairness in comparison to other sports, no time to enjoy the show etc. However, the arguments still have one common theme: limiting tourney pinball play, which is not desirable, especially for those who *are* traveling for the sole intention of competing.

    I've never, ever, heard a tourney player say the event would be so much more fun if we could play less pinball.

    In closing, best of success to the organizers and good skill to all those playing next weekend.

    #166 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballcorpse:

    I've never, ever, heard a tourney player say the event would be so much more fun if we could play less pinball.

    I'll say it now. I've heard it said before as well. Paying hundreds of dollars and standing in line doing nothing until 3 am and then coming back to do it again at 8 am SUCKS. Go read the threads from one day after the show last year to see how that went.

    Someone's willingness to spend more money is definitely not correlated to skill. There are other games to be played. TPF is a hobbyist and collector conference and the tournament should be a nice aside.

    Randomness is fun. It may not be the best way to prove who the best player is but is it better for the hobby for Keith Elwin to mop the floor at a local show or for someone new to have a shot? The best players will win in aggregate but they shouldn't take every contest.

    My opinions on this particular day, everyone has their own and mine will change over time. Hope we get to play one another either way!

    #167 3 years ago

    I'm going to miss the separate Classics tournament; that's my "thing" at most shows.

    #168 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    bummed you wont be around Frax! I was really looking forward to meeting you (esp since I think my inlaws live about 2 min from where you live > whispering hills/buckingham area in liberty jr high neighborhood)

    Yeah....That school is like 4 miles from me. =\

    #169 3 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    I'll say it now. I've heard it said before as well. Paying hundreds of dollars and standing in line doing nothing until 3 am and then coming back to do it again at 8 am SUCKS. Go read the threads from one day after the show last year to see how that went.
    Someone's willingness to spend more money is definitely not correlated to skill. There are other games to be played. TPF is a hobbyist and collector conference and the tournament should be a nice aside.
    Randomness is fun. It may not be the best way to prove who the best player is but is it better for the hobby for Keith Elwin to mop the floor at a local show or for someone new to have a shot? The best players will win in aggregate but they shouldn't take every contest.
    My opinions on this particular day, everyone has their own and mine will change over time. Hope we get to play one another either way!

    I agree that waiting forever and spending 100s of dollars sucks And yes, randomness is fun and exciting. I can appreciate that.

    I personally set a budget for me and my son when we compete. I have given guidance to newcomers asking how to approach unlimited qualifying and always recommend people set a budget, but that is a personal choice. Some people love chasing the dream

    I truly wish nothing but success for the TPF, and I would enjoy meeting you and playing some pin

    #170 3 years ago

    Why not just add more pins to the tourney???

    #171 3 years ago

    Whysnow:
    Thanks for the feedback, suggestions, and your opinion. Don't worry, I don't take it personally.
    I do take it personally that I didn't catch the flaw in the #'s earlier. While I didn't develop the format, I should have caught it earlier. I won't make that mistake again.

    I'm sorry that you made travel and vacation plans around trying to find an advantage in playing a lot early, knowing that many players likely wouldn't be able to get them all it. I don't fault you for being shrewd and wanting to do this. But based on your thread comments, it sounds like you do appreciate why we had to make the change when we did. To do so after everyone had registered sucks, and I don't expect everyone to be happy, but to not do anything would have been far worse.

    My initial reaction to reducing plays was "No way!" Both with the TPF organizers and with Josh.
    I tried moving heaven and earth to explore other means by which to alleviate the issue, but they either had fatal flaws, or weren't as good as the option that we went with. I'll tell you the whole story over a beer if I get some time away from the tourney, and after I've gotten the chance to play a couple games with my kids.

    Regarding the # of plays, many others have already stated what I feel and know to be true. And ironically, you're arguing a point that's contrary to the fact that you're among the higher-ranked players that's signed up for TPF.

    Regarding the $/play, the team decided that we stick with the original one-time entry price of the tourney and offer full refunds to those that want to opt out. There is a waiting list of people that want in. I realize that a refund isn't much consolation to someone traveling from distance. But $60 for what should hopefully be a smooth, well-run tourney is good value. And as others have mentioned, getting ample time on the TPF festival floor, in seminars, and with the people that make up the show is a Super Jackpot of a consolation.

    See you next weekend.

    #172 3 years ago
    Quoted from HoneyBadger:

    Why not just add more pins to the tourney???

    The biggest hurdle is finding collectors, at the last minute, willing to provide a tournament game.

    Ken and Colin have worked very hard for the past several weeks to secure a great collection of tournament machines. Each of these machines are undergoing significant prep to make them ready for the event. So it's not as simple as simply adding machines.

    Even outside of this challenge, what exactly will adding more pinball machines accomplish? Is it simply to help reduce wait times?

    Marcus

    #173 3 years ago
    Quoted from HoneyBadger:

    Why not just add more pins to the tourney???

    We tried going this route, but it had fatal flaws. One was due to the multi-era format and the software, which is designed for tourneys that don't care what era a pin is from within one tourney.

    And by the way, Karl's software is amazing and he has been an incredible help.

    #174 3 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    Even outside of this challenge, what exactly will adding more pinball machines accomplish?

    Plus then you're back to the old gripe: "All the cool games are in the tournament, not out on Free Play."

    #175 3 years ago

    that was a huge complaint last year. partially because there were a ton of games in the tournament, and partially because they were so incredibly awesome!

    #176 3 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    that was a huge complaint last year. partially because there were a ton of games in the tournament, and partially because they were so incredibly awesome!

    I know, right? I lost interest in qualifying and I just kept hitting Rolling Stones, DragonFist and Paragon like I was at a coin-op peep show.

    #177 3 years ago

    wondering how many females are registered for the tourney. (wife was asking so she knows her odds)

    #178 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    wondering how many females are registered for the tourney. (wife was asking so she knows her odds)

    I was in, but I'm out now.

    #179 3 years ago

    i think last year's ladies' tournament had 8-10

    #180 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    wondering how many females are registered for the tourney. (wife was asking so she knows her odds)

    Around 20, I believe.

    #181 3 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    that was a huge complaint last year. partially because there were a ton of games in the tournament, and partially because they were so incredibly awesome!

    Tourney games will be top notch again this year. And all can enjoy them all day Sunday.

    #182 3 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    i think last year's ladies' tournament had 8-10

    Quoted from Snailman:

    Around 20, I believe.

    100% increase is crazy! great stuff for the hobby of competitive pinball!

    Would be great to do more than top 4 females based on this increase! I think the more we can do to promote/encourage female participation the better! I would donate some more cash to get more trophies towards this sector of pinballers.

    -1
    #183 3 years ago

    To the organizers of the TPF tournament

    Eight year old Jimmy comes home from school and says, hey Mom, "I promised Freddy I'd bring him 30 pieces of candy for the 60 cents he gave me." ... "Problem is I only have 20 pieces of candy left, so I'm just going to give him those instead." Mom replies - "Now Jimmy, that's not what you promised", Jimmy says - "But Mom it's still a great deal, and besides he'd get sick long before he ever ate all 30 pieces, it's really better for him this way.

    What do you think his Mom should say, what would your 'Mom/Dad/Grandparents' or anyone who taught you basic right from wrong say.

    It's just wrong, and you know it. Stop rationalizing, and give people back their $20 dollars, learn from the mistake and do it better next year.

    #184 3 years ago

    As i said before for me it's not about the tourney money but the fact that they changed this after people had paid and booked trips. YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT IT IS WRONG!

    -1
    #185 3 years ago

    Everyone knows it's "wrong". It's a better option than the anticipated long delays.

    There is no reason to return $20 to people who don't care.

    Thank you organizers for fixing the problem before it became an issue.

    #186 3 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Less games played leads to a more volatile result, period. It's actually the whole backbone of how tournaments get graded for WPPR's under our TGP formula.
    Every game you add on to a tournament gives an advantage to the higher skilled players.
    Giving a B-level player 10 more games to 'get lucky', also gives an A-level player 10 more games to show why they are the best at playing pinball.

    Yep. Watch out, because I'm gonna put the D division on the map!

    #187 3 years ago
    Quoted from Nevus:

    Yep. Watch out, because I'm gonna put the D division on the map!

    see you there!

    #188 3 years ago

    If anyone is coming to TPF, already paid for your tournament, but has decided not to play and has not yet gotten a refund, please do so.

    There is a waiting list for people who would like to play.

    Thanks.

    Marcus

    #189 3 years ago

    I fail to understand the complaints about reducing the number of qualifying attempts but keeping the entry fee the same, they are completely separate topics. This was always a flat fee tournament, so the size of the fee only relates to the size of the prize pool, nothing else.

    I do understand that only 2 attempts on each game introduces randomness in the outcome, it's a reasonable concern, but with limited time and limited qualifying bank there is no other choice. Next year the organizers will need to be creative about handling the number of players, and whatever the solution (fixed qualifying attempts, match play, separate tournaments), it will require a larger number of games. For now the format looks to be the best they can offer.

    #190 3 years ago

    Saw a link to the tracker in another thread and thought I should post it here as well.

    http://www.neverdrains.com/tpf2016

    Colin - How did you know I was going to be signed up as "Test Player 5"? Nice of you to record my scores already

    #191 3 years ago

    No more test players. Go ahead and view your competition!

    #192 3 years ago
    Quoted from Troz:

    No more test players. Go ahead and view your competition!

    Pretty cool.

    Hmm... Am I bored enough to take that list and add IFPA rankings to it? Maybe.. would be pretty neat to see.

    #193 3 years ago
    Quoted from Troz:

    No more test players. Go ahead and view your competition!

    Sa-weet! Looks like the top-ranked players in the tournaments are those Austinites I already know I can beat on a good day. Thank you Pin-Masters!

    -1
    #194 3 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    Sa-weet! Looks like the top-ranked players in the tournaments are those Austinites I already know I can beat on a good day. Thank you Pin-Masters!

    *scratch head*

    I wouldn't even claim this and I've been in the top 100, and representing TX in a few days for the SCS. I wouldn't be quite so cocky off one or two fluke victories. There's at least 6 or 7 TX people on that list that I dread playing....including our state champion? Seems a bit.....overly optimistic, but best of luck! These guys are consistent, top notch players across a variety of eras, this isn't going to be a walk in the park tournament!

    #195 3 years ago

    I dont stand a chance of even making the playoff, but there are a bunch of names on the list I am excited to hang out with and play pinball with!

    Friday cant get here quick enough!!!

    #196 3 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    *scratch head*
    I wouldn't even claim this and I've been in the top 100, and representing TX in a few days for the SCS. I wouldn't be quite so cocky off one or two fluke victories. There's at least 6 or 7 TX people on that list that I dread playing....including our state champion? Seems a bit.....overly optimistic, but best of luck! These guys are consistent, top notch players across a variety of eras, this isn't going to be a walk in the park tournament!

    Agreed, not a walk in the park at all. What I'm saying is that if the top competition is Sven, Colin, Garret, Jon, Phil, the Moncla clan, Mark, etc., then I know how a lot of these players play and I know I can beat them on a good day. Sure I'm probably still screwed, but placing in that group I can do.

    What I was thinking might happen would be that we had 20 players in the top 100 show up. Looks like closer to four or five, with another dozen in the top 200 range.

    What you call cockiness, I call optimism, OK.

    #197 3 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    What you call cockiness, I call optimism, OK.

    I'm the first person to believe that the actual ranking numbers don't mean a whole lot. I'm just saying you seem awful cavalier against a field of extremely good players. I'm all for more competition in TX...I wish some of you guys would move to Dallas or something, though. Hope you do well, I love watching underdogs take out highly ranked players.

    #198 3 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Hope you do well, I love watching underdogs take out highly ranked players.

    I've been hearing good things about "Test Player 5". Could be a Cinderella story...

    #199 3 years ago
    Quoted from gtown:

    I've been hearing good things about "Test Player 5". Could be a Cinderella story...

    SHould be glad Trent 23 isn't attending..

    #200 3 years ago

    Aside from the players you already mentioned, watch out for Kevin Stone, Grant Mortenson, Steve Marsh, Shawn Lee, Ron Hallett Jr., Jason Mawson, Robert Byers.

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