(Topic ID: 154093)

Testing Clay's Clearcoat Brush Method (A Black Rose Resto Saga)

By pinster68

8 years ago


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  • 193 posts
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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by desertT1
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There are 193 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 8 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Progress, and nearing the part where I actually go back to clear coating ... All water slides in place and 99% of the touch ups done.

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very cool!. thats a great job.
thanks
blake

#102 8 years ago

Thanks so much for the pictures and information, I am finishing up a cabinet restoration and my next project will include playfield touch up. I have never tried it before so I am really interested to see how you finish this up...it looks great so far...

#103 8 years ago

So here it is after second clear. In short, it looks great from 3 feet away, but I had issues with bubbles - as you can see in the second shot. In hindsight a foam brush can act like an air pump if not loaded just right; you press down to apply and squeeze air out into the clear ... and poof, bubbles. Darn. I'll be sanding them out when cured. I may postpone for a week or two until it's solid, then proceed with the utmost caution.

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#104 8 years ago

thin it out more with lacquer thinner or reducer. Thin it out at least 10%. it will cut down no bubbles.

#105 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

thin it out more with lacquer thinner or reducer. Thin it out at least 10%. it will cut down no bubbles.

Got it. Thanks Neo.

#106 8 years ago

I admire you man, you got balls.

I would love to work up the courage to do what you're doing. But I always end up saying - "these things are worth a few grand, too big a risk". I don't trust myself. But you seem willing to make mistakes then learn. Im enjoying the thread and your progress.

#107 8 years ago

So I sanded out my bubbles and laid another layer of clear. This time I was far more careful and repeatedly brushed until I got a smooth finish. I think it's really coming together.

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#108 8 years ago

Looks great Brian. I have a variable speed polisher if you need it when the time comes.

#109 8 years ago

Looks great - you are giving me the confidence to try clearing my spare solar ride playfield after I repair the wear. What grit sandpaper did you use to prep the dried clear for the next coat?

#110 8 years ago

What grit did you use to sand the bubbles? And did you block sand?

I agree with 2 comments here. Looking good and you have balls. Deciding to do it and risk doing damage is one thing. To document the good and the bad as you go along is a big one also.

Thanks for sharing.

#111 8 years ago

Did you go with a normal coat right over those waterslide decals? I've always read that the first coat, when spraying, should be very light. I think it'd be interesting if you brushed right over them with no issues.

#112 8 years ago

Regarding the grit, I started with block sanding, but I felt confident enough to switch to my RO sander at low speed, and pretty darn light and quick. 600 grit in both cases. Risky, but it went well. The clear is still soft so you really got to be careful. I have one insert slightly raised that I knocked a tiny bit of keylining off, since fixed. I'm going to let this coat cure for several days if not a week or two.

Regarding the watersides - yes, just brushed over them, they didn't move. I fully expected otherwise, but sure enough they stayed put and are now safely encased.

#113 8 years ago
Quoted from JohnDelNJ:

Looks great Brian. I have a variable speed polisher if you need it when the time comes.

Thank John! It may be a month or so, but I may call on you for that.

#114 8 years ago

still soft? I thought you went with auto clear? Should be rock hard in about 3-6 hours

#115 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

still soft? I thought you went with auto clear? Should be rock hard in about 3-6 hours

Any longer than that you should call a doctor.

#116 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

still soft? I thought you went with auto clear? Should be rock hard in about 3-6 hours

It's misleading for me to say it's still soft. To the touch it's rock hard, but when sanding it seemed to come off quicker than if I perhaps had left this to cure for a while. Also, there's two points that lead me to think it hasn't fully cured:

1. The application guide mentioned re-coating within 24 hours after sanding - otherwise sand again.
2. When I hear restorers like RK wait two weeks between coats

My first time, so what do I know. Nonetheless, a bit of caution there is a good thing.

#117 8 years ago

only reason you would have to wait more than 3-6 hours if you are using an air dry type clear. I always clear and sand the next day , redo touchups if needed and spray again the next night if need be.

#118 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

only reason you would have to wait more than 3-6 hours if you are using an air dry type clear. I always clear and sand the next day , redo touchups if needed and spray again the next night if need be.

I had a feeling your were going to say that. I'll hit it again tomorrow with another sand and clear. That'll make four.

#119 8 years ago

Quick update ... So I decided on a quick test. It had been 8 hours. So in a couple of obscure areas I pressed and slid a fingernail. It made its mark, albeit very light. It's not soft, but it didn't seem like it was done.

I'll try the test again before hitting it with the sander.

#121 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

you using fast or slow hardener?

Fast...

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#122 8 years ago

Does it still smell?

#123 8 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Does it still smell?

Yes it does, good point to make; this would also tell us it's still curing.

#124 8 years ago

even though 2 part urethane dry from a chemical reaction, when you sand them you take off the top most area which is air exposed. the stuff underneath is always softer until about 48+ hours. At that point it's like sanding a rock though.

Also everyone should note that this game is a diamondplate playfield. meaning brushing on this type of playfield is far less risky than say a lacquer based playfield. Brushing is just going to work better on this type of playfield compared to a lacquer based playfield. That is, on a lacquer based playfield it will be more difficult to get the result shown in this thread on the black rose diamondplate playfield.

#125 8 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Yes it does, good point to make; this would also tell us it's still curing.

Exactly.
Also my experience I have the same situation every time I clear (I use another brand of auto 2PAC). I can press a nail into it more easily and it is easier to sand.

One time I sanded the day after I cleared and that was a very bad idea as it did shrink around the inserts after some time. So now I let it cure/settle at least 1 month (Before final block-sanding). It might be overkill, but better safe than sorry

#126 8 years ago

Thanks gents. I'm going to sit tight until the weekend, then decide if I sand and re-coat, or wait another week or three. It certainly won't have a spray quality in the end, but the way it's going it'll still be respectable I think.

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#127 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Should be rock hard in about 3-6 hours

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

you using fast or slow hardener?

Quoted from tezting:

Does it still smell?

Quoted from pinster68:

I'll hit it again tomorrow

Quoted from tezting:

better safe than sorry

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I apologize for that.

In all seriousness, I've really enjoyed this thread so far, most excellent job!

#128 8 years ago

This thread makes me think I could try brush clearing a playfield sometime. Certainly less tools required than a spray situation.

#129 8 years ago

curious with 2pac, if you lay down multiple coats in a matter of days, is there the possibility that the first coat skins over but does not completely harden off and then later coats seal this in so the first coat is not ever totally hard?

or is that not how it works?

#130 8 years ago

I'm impatient. I wonder is a fine roller would work. A 4" roller is what you use to spread the epoxy to refinish old bathtubs and they come out smooth.

#131 8 years ago

just a note. For those attempting to do this. Just because you are brushing it on. You still need eye and lung protection. This stuff is very very dangerous and loves to stick to anything wet. Including the vapors. So it will stick to your eyeballs and lung walls. So be very carefull. 10 years ago, when I first started restoring fields. I ended up passing out in the shower because the masks I was using were not the right type. Even tho, I couldn't smell it, the dangerous stuff was still getting through. Exhaust port was not strong enough either.

#132 8 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

This stuff is very very dangerous and loves to stick to anything wet. Including the vapors. So it will stick to your eyeballs and lung walls. So be very carefull.

A+ advice. This stuff really is dangerous.

See my first page notes, and Clay's warnings on his original guide.

You MUST have Swimmy Goggles, Respirator (not a dust mask), and gloves.

I prepare a double plastic bag before every coating to quickly dispose of the cup, brush, and my gloves immediately after I'm done. It all goes in, gets tied up and brought out the trash.

And definitely seal off your main house. The vapors travel. Then don't go in the area you clear coated for at least 2 hours. Keep it ventilated with fresh air.

#133 8 years ago

Fantastic job Brian, that turned out nice!

I will second that - eye protection and respirator are a must!

#134 8 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

even though 2 part urethane dry from a chemical reaction, when you sand them you take off the top most area which is air exposed. the stuff underneath is always softer until about 48+ hours. At that point it's like sanding a rock though.
Also everyone should note that this game is a diamondplate playfield. meaning brushing on this type of playfield is far less risky than say a lacquer based playfield. Brushing is just going to work better on this type of playfield compared to a lacquer based playfield. That is, on a lacquer based playfield it will be more difficult to get the result shown in this thread on the black rose diamondplate o.

What sort of problems occur when you apply 2PAC to lacquer playfield with the brush method? I was planning on using this method for my Abra Ca Dabra but now have some doubts...

#135 8 years ago
Quoted from woz:

What sort of problems occur when you apply 2PAC to lacquer playfield with the brush method? I was planning on using this method for my Abra Ca Dabra but now have some doubts...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739707

#136 8 years ago

lacquer fields are just older and the film thickness of the clear is thinner. so it's just not as smooth of an initial finish, has more wear patterns and holes and marks. This means a brushed on finish won't be as nice as what you saw here with the diamondplate black rose. Doing a DP field is the best of all situations.

I do two part urethane lacquer (pre-DP) playfields all the time. it's works great. but it's just tougher to get the results gotten here with the DP black rose playfield.

#137 8 years ago
Quoted from cfh:

even though 2 part urethane dry from a chemical reaction, when you sand them you take off the top most area which is air exposed. the stuff underneath is always softer until about 48+ hours. At that point it's like sanding a rock though.

Checked in on it again this morning. Yep, 48 hours sounds right. The odor has died down and nail tests are showing little effect. I'll look to sand and coat one more time by tomorrow. I'll go for final sand and polish later Saturday into Sunday.

#138 8 years ago

Keeping the running log up to date here...

So I was anxious and ran 600 grit over it today at lunch. All good, and yes indeed quite rock hard at this point. At least enough to sand with little or no worry. I did cut through one key line on a raised insert, but it's a clear insert with no art affected other than the key line.

There's still some waves in the clear, but if I polished it as is today I'd be perfectly happy. It'll get one more coat ... likely at 5 o'clock today when I call it quits for the long weekend.

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#139 8 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

There's still some waves in the clear, but if I polished it as is today I'd be perfectly happy.

You have come this far, why not lay down 2 more light coats and make it totally flat?

#140 8 years ago

Ok I lied about the "perfectly happy" claim. It would still look great, but I agree ... finish the job.

#141 8 years ago

Question ... I do not have the reducer for PPG's Omni Clear. I do have lacquer thinner. Is this safe to mix?

#142 8 years ago

i use lacquer thinner to clean my gun. i've never used it to thin urethane though...

#143 8 years ago

I only thin with reducer..but others have said lacquer thinner works.

#144 8 years ago

Thanks gents. All roads here are leading me to "don't do it". I picture a cloud of purple gas forming and a wrecked playfield. I kid ... but I'm avoiding it nonetheless. I'll see if I can find an auto body supply shop tomorrow ... or just roll without the reducer again.

#145 8 years ago

reducer is cheap. it's like $18 for a quart. You probably can get smaller amounts. Go no more than 25%.

so you go 2 : 1 : .5

#146 8 years ago

Brian, check Boonton Auto Parts. They're just off 287. The stock all kinds of auto paint supplies.
I can pick it up for you if needed, I drive past it every day.

#147 8 years ago
Quoted from JohnDelNJ:

Brian, check Boonton Auto Parts. They're just off 287. The stock all kinds of auto paint supplies.
I can pick it up for you if needed, I drive past it every day.

Thanks John, much appreciated. I'm off tomorrow so I can buzz down if there isn't something closer.

#148 8 years ago

Up early on my day off to fix some key lines. Then it's off to find reducer...

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#149 8 years ago

Playfield OCD tape job and my new vid-inspired "paint booth".

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#150 8 years ago

Great day ...

So after my AM touch-ups, I found a supply shop with all that I needed. I picked up a fresh new respirator, the reducer, nice measured mixing cups, and a few other items. They even had SprayMax 2k and I grabbed a can. Though to stay true to this test I'm going to stick with the clear I'm using and brush application. I'll mess around with SprayMax another time.

So here it is, 4th coat. Much better application with reducer, but not bubble-free ... very close though.

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