(Topic ID: 154093)

Testing Clay's Clearcoat Brush Method (A Black Rose Resto Saga)


By pinster68

3 years ago



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There are 193 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
#1 3 years ago

(Edit: looking back on my post I realize that I omitted the very important reference to Clay's guide that I was following. So with that in mind here's it is: http://www.pinrepair.com/clear/)

Today was Black Rose Clearcoat day. This is my first attempt at clear coating, and my low-cost fixer-upper Black Rose was the lucky candidate. While I would have loved to spray clear it, I just don't have the facility. And if as I progress I don't think I can get decent results I'll be sanding it down a bit and having it sprayed for final clearing. Anyhoo - here's how step 1 went. As I write the garage STINKS, and I'm going to stay clear of it for hours.

So first-off, the candidate playfield. I don't believe it was Diamond-plated, but it was fully mylar covered. With that in mind I didn't want to do any wood repairs and heavy sanding until I had some clear on it. So as of this point it was already stripped of parts, shooter lane restored, and the ball damaged areas near the cannon, Davey's Locker entrance, and center cannon shot have been prepped (rasp and file the rough damage and loose wood fibers out). I sanded the whole playfield with an RO sander on low with 600 grit paper, and cleaned all the bulb and switch holes.

So here's the candidate playfield prepped for coat:

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#2 3 years ago

The Tools and Materials...

-Omni Plus MC161 Urethane Clear Coat
-Omni MH167 Fast Topcoat Hardner
-Swimmy goggles (all they had were blue ... made it hard to see through in my garage, but they worked)
-3M Respirator, fresh filters
-2" Foam Brushes
-Paper Coffee Cup, marked with my measurements (see note below)
-Not pictured: Nitrile gloves

So Clay calls for 3 ounces of product for one playfield. I took this as 3 ounces of clear, then add the hardener. Adding an ounce for first-timer screw up (fear that I may run just a little short). So I ended up with 6 ounces of product total (2 ratio of clear to hardener). This was just way too much. I could have done three playfields. Lesson learned.

Pictured is the cup after I finished the playfield's first coat. As you can sort of see I only used about 2 ounces (my 4 oz clear mark can just about be seen around the fluid line). Again ... way too much.

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#3 3 years ago

So I suited up with protective gear, and ran in the house to freak out the wife. She wasn't amused and claimed that I'm scaring the dogs.

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#4 3 years ago

So a few minor notations or so on the experience.

Overall, Clay's guide was quite accurate. A spray method will provide much better results. But what I've seen so far (pictures in the next post) the results with a foam brush were very respectable ... and I'm only on the first pass, and haven't done any follow-up sanding or polishing yet naturally.

I believe Clay was a pioneer in clear coating playfields (DIY/post-production), and his guide, although dated ~1999 is still very valuable advice. The materials and safety gear (and steps) were all good.

The stuff seriously does STINK; despite working in my ventilated garage the vapors made it into the house a bit and I got a little "feedback" from the wife.

I'd suggest getting a small throw-away turkey baster or dropper to transfer your clear from the quart container into the cup. You don't want to try and pour it into the cup as it'll make a mess. The hardener comes in a smaller, easy to pour container. I had a tiny dropper used for airbrushing which sufficed for the clear transfer ... but it took 50+ transfers to get to my 4oz marker. Noting again that 3oz total (clear plus hardener) is all that was needed for the one playfield.

I followed Clay's advice on application; work from the bottom up, shooter lane to the left - about 4" of coverage for that row, then moved upward to the next 4" row - back-brushing into the previous row to blend. I constantly checked my light angles to make sure I wasn't missing an area or letting anything pool. The Omni clear flowed actually very nicely, and the 2" foam brush is very forgiving. That said it still takes a bit of finesse to lay it smooth.

Clay recommended buying metal measuring cups for the clear ... I found just making a "reference" coffee cup with the markings on it was better than having to clean up another tool. So I filled a coffee cup with plain water, measured the height, then transferred the marks to a clean paper cup. Easy peazy.

When I was done I left the remaining clear in the coffee cup on my workbench thinking it'll be solid by the time I return ... not. It was still liquid, but not likely usable. The Omni instructions indicate that is does have a container life of X (a day or so, I really don't remember), so now that I think of it I shouldn't have left it out to continue stinking up the garage. So into a baggy with copious paper towels and other trash, then outside to my garbage to stink and cure on out there...

So, check out the results below. I'll edit this post if I can think of any other noteworthy points.

#5 3 years ago

Here's the results after letting it cure for a couple of hours. I have a few pictures outside in the sunlight, and then more inside. Again, it's not sprayed, but not having even done any sanding/polishing I actually think it looks pretty darn good. Guys on a budget that want to clear-coat at home and aren't looking to create a CQ masterpiece do have an option for relatively few bucks a playfield.

This isn't the end of it naturally. I still have to sand again, do the wood repair, sand some more, do some airbrush work, then clear at least one more time, then sand and polish. And true to my notes above - if I think it really is less then acceptable I'll have a shop do the final spray clear and finish work ... but I suspect it just won't be necessary; not for the player (non museum piece) I'm looking to create with a budget in mind.

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#6 3 years ago

Good luck Brian, please update us with the results.

#7 3 years ago

Cool, looks nice and I'm sure will play great. I think the "2 part spray or throw it away" viewpoint is a bit extreme.

#8 3 years ago

all black roses are diamondplated. Doesn't look bad for being brushed, but if you truely want a glass like look. you are going to have to block sand with 600 grit, do another clear, sand, clear , sand clear , and then sand and clear on last time. Will give you a nice flat look, hide your insert edges and look fairly good. Then take 2000 or 3000 grit wet paper..sand out imperfections, than buff it out. good to go.

#9 3 years ago

Looks damn good to me for a first attempt. Congrats!
Sanding wil be sketchy for the first couple coats I think. Have to be on the ball and look for thin areas that may break through.
Good job, nonetheless!

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

all black roses are diamondplated.

Maybe so, but the pf wasn't marked with the DP logo as I've seen others. And when I removed the Mylar I had some lifting around some inserts, and the "POT" art was completely removed, so adding the clear was in the cards. This is part learning experience too, so I'm perfectly okay if it doesn't come out perfect, or was overkill in some respects.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

Looks damn good to me for a first attempt. Congrats!
Sanding wil be sketchy for the first couple coats I think. Have to be on the ball and look for thin areas that may break through.
Good job, nonetheless!

Thanks!

The 600 grit I used first pass with an RO sander at low speed was actually very forgiving. I was waiting for the "oh shit" moment where I removed art, but it never happened. I'm confident that the clear that's down there now will keep me safe from breaking through anywhere. We'll see with the next round of repairs...

#12 3 years ago

Before you get too far, touchup the top of the sink ship compass. Should be real easy and the defect will be camouflaged from notice.

Try it, you'll like it...

PS: Mighty fine job!

#13 3 years ago

they used the diamondplate logo early on when they first started DPing..after that they stopped putting the logo on because everything was Dp'd.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Thanks!
The 600 grit I used first pass with an RO sander at low speed was actually very forgiving. I was waiting for the "oh shit" moment where I removed art, but it never happened. I'm confident that the clear that's down there now will keep me safe from breaking through anywhere. We'll see with the next round of repairs...

I not surprised that you didn't break through with 600 grit. I used an orbital with 80 grit paper on a very worn EBD that I was prepping for an overlay. I was shocked by the amount of abuse the pf took before all of the art was finally sanded off.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Before you get too far, touchup the top of the sink ship compass. Should be real easy and the defect will be camouflaged from notice.
Try it, you'll like it...
PS: Mighty fine job!

I'll be taking care of wood filler/Bondo repairs next, followed by another sanding, then priming and touch ups. The Compass, Davey Jones's, and top scoop repairs are included in this.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I not surprised that you didn't break through with 600 grit. I used an orbital with 80 grit paper on a very worn EBD that I was prepping for an overlay. I was shocked by the amount of abuse the pf took before all of the art was finally sanded off.

It's worth noting that all but two inserts were perfectly flat, so I made sure to make only quick passes on those that were slightly raised. On a test Hurricane playfield I have I tried sanding a raised insert ... Didn't take long to burn through the art, so I kept that in mind when digging into the BR repairs.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

So I suited up with protective gear, and ran in the house to freak out the wife. She wasn't amused and claimed that I'm scaring the dogs

Didn't she wonder why Walter White had shown up to her house?

rd

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#18 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Didn't she wonder why Walter White had shown up to her house?
rd

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Lol ... Funny, my kid says I look like him. Yeah, with that getup I'm ready to cook up some meth, or make bodies disappear.

#19 3 years ago

Looks nice, good luck with the rest...

#20 3 years ago

Thanks for the detail and documentation...nice job

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Lol ... Funny, my kid says I look like him. Yeah, with that getup I'm ready to cook up some meth, or make bodies disappear.

You look like the water guy from Hellboy to me...

#22 3 years ago

Looking good Brian!

#23 3 years ago

looks great for a 1st coat. I'm amazed that you didn't end up with dust particles everywhere in the clear.

#24 3 years ago

So yesterday was a bad day. A bad Bondo day more accurately. This is where I admit my big mistakes and people either sympathize or laugh there asses off. I have thick skin, let me have it...

After a lot of cursing and head-in-my hands moments I think I recovered okay. But now I'll have more touch-up work to recover.

In short - too much Bondo, too much cure time before I trimmed it back and sanded it out, and a bit of overcompensation on the sanding to try and recover quickly. I kept reflecting on Vid1900's guidance that Bondo "feathers real nice" ... and couldn't figure out where I went wrong...

So here's my terrible job at laying down Bondo. I actually thought "I'll give it a little time, then trim it back then get to sanding"...

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#25 3 years ago

So after 20 minutes of cure I started to trim with a nice sharp Exacto blade ... wasn't happening. It was too hard to slice. Shit. Shit. Shit. Now what?

I was able to scrape a little back from the playfield prior, but it was just a damn mess....

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#26 3 years ago

So I tested with various sanding grit levels ... I ended up working with 400 after seeing paint loss in the hidden areas up top. I had burned through the clear. More cursing and extreme remorse...

Forget the center top scoop. I had to chisel it out. Embarrassing, but I recovered...

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#27 3 years ago

So the end result ... a bit of paint loss down by Sink Ship ... fortunately no art detail - just solid colors/lines, and colors I had to mix up anyway when I repaired the compass. So there'll be a lot of frisket masking and repaint here.

The Davey's Locker scoop is hidden anyway when assembled. The touch-ups will be forgiving accordingly.

I'll revisit the upper scoop hole with perhaps the sand-able quick wood lumber epoxy.

This all could have gone worse, but I had much higher hopes. Back to the planning board......

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#28 3 years ago

I'm glad it came out okay in the end. I like reading posts where things go wrong, I always learn.

#29 3 years ago

As Bart Simpson stated, ¬°Ay, caramba! That's SOME overkill on the Bondo, methinks. Everything in moderation, my friend.........

Looks like it will turn out OK in the end, though. And it does feather nicely when it's workable!

#30 3 years ago

We make mistakes, that's how we learn. Good recovery

#31 3 years ago

Wow I saw those bondo pictures and my jaw literally dropped. GAH ! Two things: 1) Judging by the streaking in the finish you either put too much hardener in or tried to work it too late into the cure process. 2) Not sure what the consensus is around here but I would NEVER EVER use bondo on a play field. Especially around artwork. The chemical reaction that occurs when that stuff cures can cause severe damage to the field if you are not careful or experienced. Fix your cracks, dents, and holes with a wood putty. Its workable longer, easier to form, and isn't a hazardous chemical. If you absolutely have to use something more durable than wood putty use icing ( http://www.tcpglobal.com/USC-26006_5.html?gclid=CP3n_6b5s8sCFRMlgQod7mEEkA#.VuBFzOa8w8I ). Its similar to bondo but is softer and WAY easier to sand smooth or ship away...Yikes.

#32 3 years ago

I think you hit the nail on the head with your first point. I think I added too much hardener.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I'm glad it came out okay in the end. I like reading posts where things go wrong, I always learn.

Yep ... if we're doing everything right we're not learning. This is what this was about. I was more or less prepared for things to go wrong, I would have preferred they didn't go this wrong, but it's not a complete loss yet. If I really screwed the pooch I think there's a few sources for NOS or restored BR playfields, and I suck it up and pull out my wallet.

Brian

#34 3 years ago

Too much hardener and too much bondo. Jist need a little bit and if it wasnt enough you can add more when dry

#35 3 years ago

with bondo. I usually take a razor blade and scrape it all off in a nice even pattern right away. or use a credit card. Form each section before starting another. But I don't use bondo for playfeilds. I don't know how it holds up over time. Not as durable as the PC woody stuff. I like working with that. Longer work times, and gets super hard.

#36 3 years ago

I agree I don't think bondo is good on playfields either. Well it might be OK if it's in a non ball wearing spot. But it's just not for any high wear spots because it cracks and chips easily. So I'm with Neo on this, what he uses is good. I don't know who suggested to use bondo on a playfield, but I would really look back at that advice and Pass on that source. Bondo is easy to work with, but I just don't think it's good for high wear areas. Remember bondo's intended usage is purely cosmetic.

#37 3 years ago

The confusion is probably that "Bondo" can be several different products.

Bondo Fiberglass Resin is hard, tough stuff.

Bondo Body Filler is lightweight, easy to feather stuff.

If you walk into Autozone or Homedepot and ask for "Bondo", who knows what the SOB will hand you.....

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#38 3 years ago

I think it came out great!

Bondo is like drywall mud... don't use too much or you'll create more work for yourself.

#39 3 years ago

No progress tonight ... Just sat in the garage trying blends of Createx acrylics to get a match on the cream yellow I need to fix. This part will be the most visible repair, so I've got to nail the color match. Couldn't get anywhere close, so I called it a night.

I was able to get a dead match on the blue up by Davey's Locker (even though you'll never see it). Createx blue right out of the bottle. At least some positive news there...

I'll resume the wood repairs when I have daylight on my side...

#40 3 years ago

Just a quick note to thank you for posting all of your work and experiences. It is very helpful and much appreciated. Following and looking forward to the rest - I know you will succeed because even if you might make a mistake you are methodical and persistent.

#41 3 years ago

Dolphin Glaze works great on playfields.

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#42 3 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

Dolphin Glaze works great on playfields.

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I actually have some - a gift from my now-retired bodyman father-in-law. I didn't think it was good for filling large wood repairs, just final leveling. Honestly with my Bondo nightmare I'm going to be particularly fidgety with adding anything else...

#43 3 years ago

You really aren't filling anything major working on playfields.

#44 3 years ago

matching off whites are very difficult. Your going to end up getting it close and repainting that entire area. Every Black rose i've ever had to restore I had to repaint that entire area.

#45 3 years ago

Whites are the hardest color i have ever tried to mix (next to an aged neon green). How the hell do you make a white more white lol.

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Whites are the hardest color i have ever tried to mix (next to an aged neon green). How the hell do you make a white more white lol.

Add a teeny, tiny, wisp fart amount of blue.

#47 3 years ago

is that the professional term?

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

is that the professional term?

Yes, it is a unit of measurement in Texas. They like everything big, so when they have to describe something small it has to be done as an insult.

Like "Pin Prick".

#49 3 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Add a teeny, tiny, wisp fart amount of blue.

Bwah ha ha. That's a good one. Funny that one of my color match attempts added a small amount of blue, but I ended up with a minty white and that was that.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

matching off whites are very difficult. Your going to end up getting it close and repainting that entire area. Every Black rose i've ever had to restore I had to repaint that entire area.

Thanks Neo. Yeah, I pretty much figure the whole area has to get painted. Fun with friskette.

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