(Topic ID: 140784)

TerryB's Soldering Guide


By terryb

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by dr_nybble
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    There are 349 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 7.
    #301 3 years ago

    Newb here. Found this from the Pinwiki site.
    Very helpful along with the Elanco kit.
    I am replacing a couple of micro switches.
    Holy crap is that almost impossible to do alone, and then just as hard when I got my wife to help.
    Got lucky on the first one.
    Put a bit of solder on the wires and a bit extra on the switch where I already soldered in the diode.
    Then heated the blob on the diode end and both wires melded to it.
    It works perfectly.
    Then did it on switch #2 and no luck.
    It's hard as hell to keep those wires together and then stick it to the diode part.
    Is there an actual method for this?
    I can't find videos or anything and I am just guessing on how to get the wires on there based on what I saw a tech do at the arcade.
    Is this where the physical connection comes in? It seems like it would be so hard to get them in there with the diode moving around.
    Thanks for any input!

    #302 3 years ago

    When possible, clean out the joint and and feed the diode through the hole in the switch terminal and loop it tight. You always want a physical connection and not just solder holding it together

    In reality most of the time we cheat... But the physical connection makes it easier to solder too. Or use pliers and crimp or hold it together while reheating solder on the wires

    #303 3 years ago
    Quoted from Giraffejumper:

    Is this where the physical connection comes in? It seems like it would be so hard to get them in there with the diode moving around.

    If you can't get everything through the hole in the microswitch then wrap the diode around the lug. The problem with doing it by hand is you will wiggle the wire while it is cooling and get a cold joint. It may work initially, but will break much sooner than a good solder joint.

    Have a look at the flipper solenoid lugs and you can see how (typically) either the diode or the coil wire (the small ones) are wrapped around the lug and the larger colored wire goes through the hole in the lug.

    #304 3 years ago

    Thank you! That will make it a lot easier next time.
    It turns out that mine wasn't working because I forgot to plug in the wire to the middle lug.
    Now that I realize that I learned a shortcut, I will be doing it the correct way next time and just keep my fingers crossed that this holds for a bit.
    But I feel a lot more empowered now that I'm not at someone else's mercy to get my machine fixed for basic things ever again!
    Now if I can just get up the courage to do a reflow on the molex connector pins that are causing my lights to go in and out as I wiggle it.
    Thanks for making this great thread!
    -Phil

    #305 3 years ago

    Trying to help a friend get his gorgar up and going. Lots of battery damage to the board and possibly some other bad components, should he replace it with a rottondog or is it cost effective or worth fixing this?

    Thanks

    IMAG0309_(resized).jpg

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    #306 3 years ago

    That's pretty bad. It takes a high level of skill to evaluate (since the worst damage is typically hidden) and repair alkaline damage and is really best left to the pro's. I would not think it's worth repairing, although I'm no expert on the replacement cost of that era of board. Hopefully one of the board repair guys will jump in here.

    #307 3 years ago

    Thanks Terry,
    I'll make a separate thread to see if I can get some opinions, I'm a total noob to board work so it's not a job I would tackle myself. But it might just become my future practice board

    #308 3 years ago
    Quoted from PunkPin:

    But it might just become my future practice board

    That's not a bad idea. I've got a work in progress post on my website on repairing battery damage. I'll PM you the link.

    1 week later
    #309 3 years ago

    There was a discussion earlier on removing solder mask on traces. Thanks to a buddy of mine I've now got a new scraper that works great for this.

    It's normally used to clean dog's teeth and you can likely get it cheaper at other retailers.

    https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07498-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

    The outside curve is blunt (rather than sharpened as it looks in the photo), but all you have to do is angle it slightly as you scrape and use the edge to remove the solder mask. The curve allows you to cleanly remove the mask on traces without affecting the surrounding areas.

    Canine-Scraper_(resized).jpg

    4 months later
    #310 2 years ago

    Online auction with some high-end SMT equipment and several mid-range Hakko products:

    http://cardinalcircuitauctions.cusauctions.com/?auction=tmg&toa=bidhome

    #311 2 years ago

    I don't know how I didn't discover this thread sooner. This is a wealth of information!

    Terry, thank you for sharing your knowledge with the community in such detail, as always.

    -Max

    #312 2 years ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    I don't know how I didn't discover this thread sooner. This is a wealth of information!
    Terry, thank you for sharing your knowledge with the community in such detail, as always.
    -Max

    This is one of my favorite threads of all times on pinside. So much incredible information! Thank's again Terry for all the time and effort you put into writing and sharing your knowledge and experience.

    2 months later
    #313 2 years ago

    First soldering ever, woohoo! Thanks terryb for the guide--it definitely helped me learn this new skill!!

    Today a blinking kit, tomorrow the world!!

    IMG_4380 (resized).JPG

    1 month later
    #314 2 years ago

    I have some bad pads where I removed a Gott Sys 3 flasher mosfet. Could I use foil tape, a la Hobby Lobby, to repair the pads? I can't find anyone near me who does PCB work and it looks like only the source pad has traces on both sides. May just live without the back right flasher, but would like to give a quick fix a go before I do. Thanks for any help.

    pic2 (resized).jpg

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    #315 2 years ago

    It's best to replace/repair pads that are not used since the solder will flow better.

    Several options are available to fix the damage. You could just use a stitch (stranded wire placed through the hole and across to the remaining trace). Circuit frames are the cleanest route, but kind of expensive. Datak offers a nice kit for replacing pads for about $20. See link below for more info on the choices.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1/page/4#post-2768126

    As far as the copper foil I would not trust the stuff at Hobby Lobby. You want to get some 1 ounce copper foil (there's a link in the post above).

    #316 2 years ago

    id replace the ceramic cap nearby and use the leads on the new one to help rebuild the missing pads.

    #317 2 years ago

    Terry, is there a specific starter kit you'd recommend? Basically, something with a mix of common pads, traces, and accessories that will be a good starting point for common board repairs? I went through all the links above and quickly realized that I had no idea what would be a good way to start.

    #318 2 years ago

    Which option you chose depends on your value of time vs money and how original you want the rework to look. Functionally jumper wires are just fine, but if you're going for a more original look then you want to go with copper foil or circuit frames.

    You can do a lot with one ounce copper foil tape and some small hole punches for making pads and either an x-acto or a paper trimmer like the one from Fiskars for cutting traces. I owned a board rework facility where the finished board had to look like it had never been worked on and it wasn't worth the labor cost to cut our own pads and traces so we used circuit frames.

    If you go with circuit frames the size you buy depends on what type of boards you'll be working on since a cpu will have smaller pads and traces than a PDB. I would suggest the following for cpu boards. The first includes pads with short traces attached which you can cut off when not needed and use for short runs. The second includes a variety of longer traces.

    1. http://www.circuitmedic.com/products/CP050060AT.shtml
    2. http://www.circuitmedic.com/products/CT006025AT.shtml

    Pace and Best also make circuit frames, the main difference being the type of adhesive. They do make equipment to apply the heat activated frames, but I just use a soldering iron. Two good sources for circuit frames are Stanley Supply and Services and Soldertools.net.

    Datak sells a copper foil kit (https://vetco.net/products/printed-circuit-board-repair-kit) which is quite a bit thicker than copper foil tape. This can be a pro or con depending on what you're doing. You'll also need a burnishing tool for the Datak kit.

    I should mention that with copper foil it can be difficult to cut very narrow traces.

    #319 2 years ago

    Thanks Terry. That helps immensely. Basically, there are two options: tape and manual work, or the stuff that the pros use (or I have to do work in volume). Given that I am usually looking at doing a board here and there, I'll go with the tape and have an excuse to break out my micro-dissection tools (forceps, scissors -- I even have a dissection microscope if needed). One final thing to check. For the tape to which you linked before (http://www.tape-works.com/collections/foil-tapes/products/2mil-copper-foil-with-acrylic-adhesive), I just want to make sure that acrylic adhesive basically means that they are peel and stick.

    #320 2 years ago
    Quoted from lyonsden:

    I just want to make sure that acrylic adhesive basically means that they are peel and stick.

    Yes. YMMV as far as how well they adhere.

    #321 2 years ago

    Is it ok to do soldering in cold weather like in garage or shed where it's 30 degrees or colder?

    Wondering if that would make it harder to heat the two pieces being soldered?

    Bruce

    #322 2 years ago

    I've never tried it, but would guess it's going to be hard to get a good solder joint. Try soldering a couple of wires together and see if you can get the solder to flow properly.

    #323 2 years ago

    Good advice, thanks.

    Bruce

    #324 2 years ago

    Double post.

    Bruce

    1 week later
    15
    #325 2 years ago

    Thought this might be useful as a quick reference guide to the beginners.

    soldering (resized).png

    #326 2 years ago
    Quoted from djreddog:

    Thought this might be useful as a quick reference guide to the beginners.

    You just summed up the whole thread in one image.

    #327 2 years ago
    Quoted from terryb:

    You just summed up the whole thread in one image.

    Haha, I doubt that. Your contributions are second to none.

    1 month later
    #328 2 years ago

    What do you use to clean old flux around soldering joints? Can I use the flux brush with 91% rubbing alcohol to clean it then later use the same flux brush to apply flux?

    Bruce

    #329 2 years ago

    Use an old toothbrush (you probably have 20 brand new ones in the hall closet from the dentist).

    Diff flux need diff solutions, but alcohol or Naphtha works on many of them.

    #330 2 years ago

    Thanks Vid1900, will do that. Your advice is always spot-on.

    Btw, It's good to see you here and doing well.

    Bruce

    1 year later
    #331 10 months ago
    Quoted from terryb:

    The next choice is whether you want to use 60/40 Sn/Pb (Tin/Lead) or 63/37 Sn/Pb. The former melts between 361° and 374° while the latter is eutectic since it has a single melting point of 361°. There is some advantage to the latter although it is more expensive.

    Are you referring to Celsius or Fahrenheit for those temperatures ?

    -1
    #332 10 months ago

    Celsius, of course. Although there are lots of old residual parts based on inches, bulk of the electronics industry has switched to metric.

    #333 10 months ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Celsius, of course. Although there are lots of old residual parts based on inches, bulk of the electronics industry has switched to metric.

    The temps quoted from terryb are in Fahrenheit.

    #334 10 months ago
    Quoted from mattosborn:

    The temps quoted from terryb are in Fahrenheit.

    I think, this is correct.

    361 Fahrenheit is 182,7 Celsius and that is the MELTING point (183-190 Celsius) of Sn60Pb40.

    SOLDERING temperatur with Sn60Pb40 could be about 360 Celsius = 680 Fahrenheit.

    #335 10 months ago

    OK --
    Solder melts at ~188C or 370F.
    Soldering iron is typically set to the 360C-370C or 680F-700F.
    I just saw the "361°" and went straight to the conclusion of tip temperature instead of melting point. My mistake.
    But still surprised to see these in °F by Terry...but I guess the audience here more often uses °F.

    The important point Terry was making was the 63/37 versus 60/40 content. With the Eutectic solder, there is a far less chance of getting a cold solder joint due to movement while the solder transitions back from liquid to solid. There is virtually no cost difference between the two so always best to go to 63/37.

    #336 10 months ago

    Everyone has explained soldering and desoldering very well but I must say that there are different requirements for each soldering as per their assembly. IPC J-STD-001 is the IPC Standard that tells about the Requirements of Soldered Electrical and Electronic Assemblies. Every soldering technician must go through this IPC JSTD-001 Certification course to get familiar with all standards as per IPC document. However, you can also follow the given link below for more details:
    https://www.ipctraining.com/j-std-001-specialist/

    1 month later
    #337 9 months ago

    Great guide terryb, thank you very much! I am dealing with an alkali damaged board and the solder pads here are really difficult to melt/desolder..any advice in that?? I have also seen your acid repair dedicated post but no advice on how to desolder these pads And components! Thank you again

    2 months later
    #338 6 months ago

    So, I'm feeling pretty proud of myself. Forgive this post in advance, but I wanted to share.

    I've been following this thread for a while, wanting to get more into board repair. I can solder switch wires together, but touching anything on a board has always made me nervous. I've just never done it before, and I've read so many instances of people screwing up their boards.

    About a month ago, I bought a new Hakko 888 with some Christmas money, just so I would have the right equipment to start learning. I decided to try my first board repair today, a fairly simple job, but one that just a few months ago scared me out of attempting.

    The story is that I had a solenoid expander relay board on my Special Force (Bally 6803) pin that no longer functioned. It has been acting up for over a year, working intermittenly. I had suspected the solder joints, but again, I was worried about ruining my only board. I first tried to find a new one. Many months ago, I bought one but it came DOA and the vendor never answered my emails. Annoying, but no big deal, as it was only $25. All other places were out of stock so I waited. And waited. And waited. Finally, a couple of months ago, Marco had some in stock. I bought one, but when it arrived, I noticed that it was missing a jumper wire. I contacted Marco, and they took it back and gave me a replacement from another vendor they had. This took another few weeks, but I now finally had a working board, and my pin was back up and running.

    So, having a working board made me feel more comfortable experimenting with repairing my old board. If I messed up, who cared. I read many of the posts in this thread and watched several videos -- how to tin a new soldering iron, what temperature to use, how to reflow solder, etc. Today, I finally tried it out.

    I'm happy to report that I reflowed the solder on all of the pins on the board, and it completely solved the problem. It was much easier than I expected. I know this will sound simplistic to most of you, but as I said, I've never done this before, so I'm feeling pretty great that it all worked out. I now have a lot more confidence to keep trying board repairs, including more advanced stuff. Thanks, Terry, and Pinside!

    #339 6 months ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    So, I'm feeling pretty proud of myself. Forgive this post in advance, but I wanted to share.
    I've been following this thread for a while, wanting to get more into board repair. I can solder switch wires together, but touching anything on a board has always made me nervous. I've just never done it before, and I've read so many instances of people screwing up their boards.
    About a month ago, I bought a new Hakko 888 with some Christmas money, just so I would have the right equipment to start learning. I decided to try my first board repair today, a fairly simple job, but one that just a few months ago scared me out of attempting.
    The story is that I had a solenoid expander relay board on my Special Force (Bally 6803) pin that no longer functioned. It has been acting up for over a year, working intermittenly. I had suspected the solder joints, but again, I was worried about ruining my only board. I first tried to find a new one. Many months ago, I bought one but it came DOA and the vendor never answered my emails. Annoying, but no big deal, as it was only $25. All other places were out of stock so I waited. And waited. And waited. Finally, a couple of months ago, Marco had some in stock. I bought one, but when it arrived, I noticed that it was missing a jumper wire. I contacted Marco, and they took it back and gave me a replacement from another vendor they had. This took another few weeks, but I now finally had a working board, and my pin was back up and running.
    So, having a working board made me feel more comfortable experimenting with repairing my old board. If I messed up, who cared. I read many of the posts in this thread and watched several videos -- how to tin a new soldering iron, what temperature to use, how to reflow solder, etc. Today, I finally tried it out.
    I'm happy to report that I reflowed the solder on all of the pins on the board, and it completely solved the problem. It was much easier than I expected. I know this will sound simplistic to most of you, but as I said, I've never done this before, so I'm feeling pretty great that it all worked out. I now have a lot more confidence to keep trying board repairs, including more advanced stuff. Thanks, Terry, and Pinside!

    Wonderful post! And many, many thanks to Terry for his great work in this thread.

    #340 6 months ago
    Quoted from Nokoro:

    So, I'm feeling pretty proud of myself. Forgive this post in advance, but I wanted to share.
    I've been following this thread for a while, wanting to get more into board repair. I can solder switch wires together, but touching anything on a board has always made me nervous. I've just never done it before, and I've read so many instances of people screwing up their boards.
    About a month ago, I bought a new Hakko 888 with some Christmas money, just so I would have the right equipment to start learning. I decided to try my first board repair today, a fairly simple job, but one that just a few months ago scared me out of attempting.
    The story is that I had a solenoid expander relay board on my Special Force (Bally 6803) pin that no longer functioned. It has been acting up for over a year, working intermittenly. I had suspected the solder joints, but again, I was worried about ruining my only board. I first tried to find a new one. Many months ago, I bought one but it came DOA and the vendor never answered my emails. Annoying, but no big deal, as it was only $25. All other places were out of stock so I waited. And waited. And waited. Finally, a couple of months ago, Marco had some in stock. I bought one, but when it arrived, I noticed that it was missing a jumper wire. I contacted Marco, and they took it back and gave me a replacement from another vendor they had. This took another few weeks, but I now finally had a working board, and my pin was back up and running.
    So, having a working board made me feel more comfortable experimenting with repairing my old board. If I messed up, who cared. I read many of the posts in this thread and watched several videos -- how to tin a new soldering iron, what temperature to use, how to reflow solder, etc. Today, I finally tried it out.
    I'm happy to report that I reflowed the solder on all of the pins on the board, and it completely solved the problem. It was much easier than I expected. I know this will sound simplistic to most of you, but as I said, I've never done this before, so I'm feeling pretty great that it all worked out. I now have a lot more confidence to keep trying board repairs, including more advanced stuff. Thanks, Terry, and Pinside!

    I was super nervous doing my first board repair. Many people advised and encouraged.

    You're right, a big relief when it works and you discover there was not a whole lot to be intimidated by in the first place.

    Congrats!

    #341 6 months ago

    After completing my Electronics Workbench with a 6X Mantis elite stereo scope; I thought I'd post some recent rework pictures for a project I'm working on: (Both pictures are approx. 6x magnification)

    dead bug style
    In this picture; I mounted a smt white LED next to a 603 resistor and "dead bugged" it on top of my microcontroller in this design. Had to do this because I mistakenly attempted to rework a 0202 LED and it's current resistor and eventually burnt the pads off of the board because of all the "attempts" I made.

    I soldered the rework wire to the edge of the pad on the DFN package of the UC and secured it with 5minute 2part epoxy.
    I2C rework
    In this photo; I realized I had swapped the SDA and SCL lines and didn't leave enough space beside the chip to rework on the 6mil traces. So I cut both lines between the vias and the chip (a 4mm DFN) and soldered rework wire to the edge of the pads on the two pins. I soldered in two 10k 603 resistors for pullups as I forgot them as well. The yellow tape is polyimide tape to insulate the whole thing from some pads underneath.
    After testing to make sure this rework was good; I secured it with 2part epoxy so the wires wouldn't come off the DFN pads.

    I wouldn't recommend attempting these unless you have a SMT rework scope. Luckily; no one should have to do this in Pinball.

    6 months later
    #342 7 days ago

    I have always struggled with soldering wires to transformer lugs, especially lugs with multiple wires attached. It seems like between the thickness of the transformer lug and the multiple wires (in my current struggle, three thick wires on the same lug) that the mass of it all creates to much of a heat sink. I've been trying to solder this all together with my hakko fx-880d with a 1/4" chisel tip. I've got the hakko cranked up to 630F, but I just can't get the whole shebang heated up enough for anything better than a cold joint which (of course) fails immediately. How do folks usually tackle this type of challenge?

    #343 7 days ago

    For you i'd say try 750F

    For me i'd say get out the weller 200W/300 W solder gun

    #344 7 days ago

    Reading the instructions for equipment is always a plus. I thought my hakko wouldn't go any higher because I was trying to adjust it incorrectly. Step 1: read instructions. Step 2: crank that sucker up to 800F (why be a monkey when you can be a gorilla?) Step 3: perform previously frustrating task perfectly in less than a minute. Thank you.

    #345 6 days ago
    Quoted from pinheadpierre:

    rank that sucker up to 800F (why be a monkey when you can be a gorilla?)

    Because 800F will quickly melt the insulation off the wires?

    #346 6 days ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Because 800F will quickly melt the insulation off the wires?

    Right - I turned it down to 750 after finishing my lugs. Is that still too hot for general playfield work? Seems to work well so far.

    #347 5 days ago
    Quoted from pinheadpierre:

    Right - I turned it down to 750 after finishing my lugs. Is that still too hot for general playfield work? Seems to work well so far.

    Not sure I have a specific recommendation as I use a butane portable iron to solder inside the game (lugs, switches, whatever). Just warning you that if you start melting the insulation on the wire; it's probably too hot. (speak from experience)

    #348 5 days ago

    I have had good luck at 350C using my TS80 (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ts80-battery-powered-soldering-iron-i-m-in-love), using a wedge tip. Tackles the lugs like butter. I have had no issues with insulation, nor butane exhaust.

    #349 1 day ago

    Recommended approach to solder multiple wires to a lug? In the WPC power box there is a varistor and two 18 GA wires going to a terminal with a pretty tiny hole. What's the right approach?

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