(Topic ID: 285581)

Terminator 2 Shocking!

By JohnSteed

3 years ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by JohnSteed
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 3 years ago

    I was working on my Bride of Pinbot pin today. Sitting next to it is my T2 pin. I was wearing a t-shirt and my arm was resting on the side rail while I was testing the MPU with my meter. I felt a tingling shock on my bare arm as it pressed against the side rail of the BOP pin, my other arm pressed against the T2 rail of the pin next to it. The T2 was plugged into the 120V electric outlet, but not turned on. The BOP was turned on with full power. I tested the AC voltage across the rails of the two pins and it measured 27VAC. What could be causing this? I am sure it is the T2 pin because I tried measuring voltage across the rails of other pins and they were all 0VAC. Only T2 registered voltage. Bad ground?

    #2 3 years ago

    You will be missing the ground pin in the AC power cord on at least one game.

    #3 3 years ago

    Or a 3 prong to 2 prong cheater is being used. Or your 3 prong outlet doesn't really have a ground, can be tested with an inexpensive tester.

    #4 3 years ago

    Check continuity between the cabinet rails and the earth prong on the wall socket.

    rd

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Check continuity between the cabinet rails and the earth prong on the wall socket.
    rd

    Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I did check the earth/ground prong on the end of the plug and it is firmly attached. I did a continuity test from the ground plug to the ground wire in the back box and it measures zero ohms of resistance, so the ground prong is presumably good. Next, I stuck one end of the AC voltage meter into the hot plug of the outlet and the other into the ground portion of the outlet and measured 120 volts. So the wall outlet and the power cord check out. Where else could the voltage leak be coming from???

    #6 3 years ago

    You checked for the ground prong on both machine's power cords?

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from JohnSteed:

    Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I did check the earth/ground prong on the end of the plug and it is firmly attached. I did a continuity test from the ground plug to the ground wire in the back box and it measures zero ohms of resistance, so the ground prong is presumably good. Next, I stuck one end of the AC voltage meter into the hot plug of the outlet and the other into the ground portion of the outlet and measured 120 volts. So the wall outlet and the power cord check out. Where else could the voltage leak be coming from???

    Anywhere in the machine. Frayed wire, ground wire loose. Have to start inspecting.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    You will be missing the ground pin in the AC power cord on at least one game.

    Quoted from KenLayton:

    You checked for the ground prong on both machine's power cords?

    #10 3 years ago

    Sounds like you might have a ground fault , your acting as the new conductor when you touch T2. Since it has a path back to earth.
    I'd check the varistor or line filter on BOP.

    ray does a descent job with this video. Also why it's probably not the best idea to replace the end with one of those home depot replacement plugs. I usually just replace the whole thing with a molded plug if I see any damage.

    #11 3 years ago

    Thanks for the suggestions. I checked the ground plug on the Bride of Pinbot pin and it is solid also. I checked continuity on the plug and and ground voltage at the outlet as well. I'm sure it is not the Bride giving me the shock, but the T2. I put a AC voltmeter lead on the T2 pin's rail and the lead on the Bride and measured 27V. I did the same across Fist Tales and the Bride and got zero volts. Then I did Fish Tales and T2 and go 27V again. I also checked to make sure all of the boards were screwed on tight and they are. I will watch the video and read the info on the link. Thanks again!

    #12 3 years ago

    I came here to reference this as it's how I worked through this issue with my Bride of Pinbot. Sounds like you might not have the exact same issue, but one takeaway I had is that if it's AC that is leaking, there are a limited number of places where AC comes into play, so that might help narrow the scope of your troubleshooting.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from JohnSteed:

    Thanks for the suggestions. I checked the ground plug on the Bride of Pinbot pin and it is solid also. I checked continuity on the plug and and ground voltage at the outlet as well. I'm sure it is not the Bride giving me the shock, but the T2. I put a AC voltmeter lead on the T2 pin's rail and the lead on the Bride and measured 27V. I did the same across Fist Tales and the Bride and got zero volts. Then I did Fish Tales and T2 and go 27V again. I also checked to make sure all of the boards were screwed on tight and they are. I will watch the video and read the info on the link. Thanks again!

    Get an outlet checker. Plug it into the service outlet in your game(s). It will let you know if game is wired right and hot, common, and ground, are working.

    Wouldn't hurt to check the wall outlets either.

    LTG : )

    #14 3 years ago

    I had a game I worked on once where it appeared the ground was solid in the end of the plug, but an ohm test to anywhere in the bottom of the cabinet ground braid wire, it was showing open. The ground pin was corroded and it eventually pulled out of the end of the plug.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Get an outlet checker. Plug it into the service outlet in your game(s). It will let you know if game is wired right and hot, common, and ground, are working.
    Wouldn't hurt to check the wall outlets either.
    LTG : )

    yeah the outlet might be reversed on T2, if the switch is off and current is still flowing.

    #16 3 years ago

    Check the continuity from the rails to ground. They may not be grounded. Try swapping the receptacles used on the T2 and the pinbot. See if the issue stays with the receptacle. Check voltage from ground wire to neutral wire on outlet, should read 0VAC.

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from denoument:

    Check the continuity from the rails to ground. They may not be grounded. Try swapping the receptacles used on the T2 and the pinbot. See if the issue stays with the receptacle. Check voltage from ground wire to neutral wire on outlet, should read 0VAC.

    In this case, wouldn't one of the three things have be the case?
    -The side rails are not connected to the machine ground
    -The machine ground is not connected to the outlet ground
    -The outlet ground is not connected to earth

    Where/what voltage is getting to the rails is then the second part of troubleshooting.

    #18 3 years ago

    Are both your pins plugged into the same outlet? Or different outlets, possibly wired separate from each other (i.e. different breakers)?

    If they are plugged into the same outlet, then the ground potential between the pins should be the same if the pin's grounds are wired correctly. That would help point to a wiring problem or a pin problem.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from jjga:

    In this case, wouldn't one of the three things have be the case?
    -The side rails are not connected to the machine ground
    -The machine ground is not connected to the outlet ground
    -The outlet ground is not connected to earth
    Where/what voltage is getting to the rails is then the second part of troubleshooting.

    I don't get the question...Validate receptacle first. Then check the machine. I agree with your list.

    Checking voltage is just a quick way to validate if ground may NOT actually earth ground. He said 120VAC from hot to ground but reading AC doesn't tell you which lead is the hot lead. Receptacle could be wired with hot on the ground and return wires and it would work just like normal just would shock you if you touched something grounded.

    I had a garage door wired like the above basically had an electrified garage door shocked me twice and I started investigating.

    #20 3 years ago

    Thanks again for all of your posts! I've noticed the shocking capability of these pinball machines until the other day. The MBOP and the T2 are plugged into different outlets but on the same circuit. I have a raceway wiring system running behind my wall of pins with two pins per outlet. The outlets were verified to be wired correctly. The ground plug on the cord was checked for continuity using the grounding wire in the back box. Zero Ohms of resistance.

    I think Ray pointed something interesting out in the video at around 9:15. He said that it is possible to mix up the neutral wire with the hot wire when wiring it to the cabinet, and it will work if it was done this way, however if you touch the rails of two pins that are next to each other you will get a shock. I have not gotten around to lifting the playfield yet, but I will do that once I get my MBOP and my dead fish (Fish Tales) working again. He also said you can get shocked even with both pins powered off and only plugged in, but that is not the case with my T2. With both machines powered off, there is no voltage leak and I verified it with the VAC meter.

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from JohnSteed:

    He said that it is possible to mix up the neutral wire with the hot wire when wiring it to the cabinet, and it will work if it was done this way,

    Easy to check. Go to hardware store. Get an outlet checker, about $10. Plug into service outlet of each game. That lets you know if game and outlet are wired right. If it comes up hot or common reversed, or ground not working. Dig further. Then check the wall outlet first. Then the power cords.

    LTG : )

    #22 3 years ago

    What LTG said. An outlet tester is a cheap and easy to use tool that is invaluable for problems like this. Even if you don't have a pin, you should have an outlet tester in your toolbox.

    If the service outlet tests good, I would still recommend having a look inside the power box. With the game unplugged, obviously. Below is what it should look like. Often the thermistors are in sketchy shape. If you can't read a schematic, get someone to help you who can before you crack it open.

    image (resized).pngimage (resized).pngimage (resized).pngimage (resized).png
    1 week later
    #23 3 years ago

    OP did you ever solve the problem?

    1 week later
    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from kevmad:

    OP did you ever solve the problem?

    No, not yet. I was working to finish up problems with my Fish Tales and Machine Bride of Pinbot. I will get back to this one shortly. Thanks!

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