Terminator 2, no boot

(Topic ID: 211371)

Terminator 2, no boot


By PatS

9 months ago



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  • 55 posts
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  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Schwaggs
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There are 55 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 months ago

Hello there,

Sorry for the long post.

I'm having problems with my T2. It's is my only pinball. I've owned it for about 15 years. I had one problem (repairs to cpu board due to battery corrosion) 5 or 6 years ago which was fixed by sending it out for repairs.

I recently moved across state, and when I fired up the pinball at the new house, my sound board fried. Since my finger was still on the switch I turned it back off. No fuses were blown anywhere. After seeing clear damage on the sound board, I removed it. I turned it back on, but it did not turn on all the way, and it resets the circuit breaker in the house about 50% of the time the switch is turned on. I'm not sure if that's caused by the new house I live in, or whatever is wrong with the machine. I measured 122v at the socket.

When it does partially turn on...
The DMD gets a bunch of garbled data on it.
The backbox/playfield do not light up.
Nothing moves or indicates it's on other than the hum of the transformer, DMD garbled data, and LEDs on the circuit boards.
CPU Board LEDS D19 and D21 stay lit. D20 does not light or blink. I'm not sure if it flashes right when it's turned on, I'd have to check again.
Driver Board LED 2 is OFF and the manual says it should be on.
All other LEDS appear correct, even the DMD Board light.

I read that the Varistor might be the problem with the circuit breaker issue, so I took a look inside, and it had no Varistor or Thermistor. I could see where a Varistor had been in place before, but had been cut off. I ordered and installed a Varistor. The machine still resets my house breaker 50% of the time. I did not see where a thermistor had been in place, so I did not install one.

I've tried just booting with just the power plugs to the CPU and Driver boards only (nothing else attached). I just get the same LEDs as above, but cannot see the DMD garbled lights since the DMD board is disconnected.

I thought the CPU board might be to blame since it had failed and been repaired a few years ago. I ordered a Rottendog modern replacement. Installed it, and the LEDs exibit the same behaviour as the original board. I switched back to the old board to verify.

I just pulled the driver board for the first time since I've owned it. Now I didn't see anything obviously damaged, but I did see quite a few spots where repair work was performed by someone named "Zero".

Would a driver board cause the CPU to not boot (D19 should turn off and D20 should flash)?

I don't know what to do next. Since I have the driver board out, I think I'll take pictures. Are there other things I missed, and should check? I've gone over the underside looking for something shorting, or broken during the move. Nothing seems out of place.

Thanks for reading and any help,

Pat S

#2 9 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

I turned it back on, but it did not turn on all the way

Quoted from PatS:

When it does partially turn on...
The DMD gets a bunch of garbled data on it.

Try reseating all the ribbon cables at all the boards connections.

#3 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Try reseating all the ribbon cables at all the boards connections.

I have. At this point I've taken off every electrical connection in the backbox at least once.

Thanks for helping me

#4 9 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

and when I fired up the pinball at the new house, my sound board fried.

Could be one or more tantalum capacitors that blew.

Quoted from PatS:

When it does partially turn on...
The DMD gets a bunch of garbled data on it.

Check the ribbon cables above the soundboard.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sound-board-up-in-smoke#post-3403334

Quoted from PatS:

CPU Board LEDS D19 and D21 stay lit. D20 does not light or blink.

Try to boot without ribbon cable on J201 and J202

#5 9 months ago
Quoted from zaza:

Could be one or more tantalum capacitors that blew.

Check the ribbon cables above the soundboard.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sound-board-up-in-smoke#post-3403334

Try to boot without ribbon cable on J201 and J202

Yes, my sound board looks similar to the pictures you linked, but a little worse.

I just carefully looked at the cables. The 26 pin has the slightest score marks on it, but it does not appear to have burnt through any of the wires. I'm happy to replace it, but I'd like to test it first.

I've tried booting without the cables. No difference. I will try again once I've put the driver board back just to be sure.

Thanks!

#6 9 months ago

Ok, put it back together today. The only new bit of info was that when the DMD ribbon cables are disconnected from the CPU, the CPU D20 LED flashes.

Ribbon on.
D19 Stays Lit
D20 Stays off
D21 Stays Lit

Ribbon off.
D19 Stays Lit
D20 Flashes
D21 Stays Lit

#7 9 months ago

I think your fried your soundboard
You have to check your power driver 5v section,probably is bad and for this reason your CPU won’t boot
I have a spare sound card
Good luck

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from robertg130:

I think your fried your soundboard
You have to check your power driver 5v section,probably is bad and for this reason your CPU won’t boot
I have a spare sound card
Good luck

Yes. The soundboard is removed because it fried. I will try to learn how to check the 5v section.

I actually purchased a Pinsound, but have not installed it because the machine still has problems.

Thank you!

#9 9 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

D19 Stays Lit
D20 Flashes

There are different patterns of flashes. See page 1-43 in the manual.
When D19 stays lit and D20 flashes, it could be a problem on the CPU-board with RAM or ROM.

#10 9 months ago

What type of circuit breaker is tripping? Is it a standard breaker? GFCI? Arcfault?

Does you T2 have the ground lug on the power cord?

#11 9 months ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

What type of circuit breaker is tripping? Is it a standard breaker? GFCI? Arcfault?
Does you T2 have the ground lug on the power cord?

I think it's GF type (late 1970's house). It does have the ground lug. Regarding that issue. I did install a Thermistor today, and that has reduced the amount of times it sets off the breaker, but it still happens.

Does anyone happen to know what causes LED 2 on the Driver board to stay off? High voltage problem?

#12 9 months ago
Quoted from zaza:

There are different patterns of flashes. See page 1-43 in the manual.
When D19 stays lit and D20 flashes, it could be a problem on the CPU-board with RAM or ROM.

When it did flash, it was random, like watching morse code.

I think I should probably have them all tested after a little more troubleshooting.

Thanks.

#13 9 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

Does anyone happen to know what causes LED 2 on the Driver board to stay off? High voltage problem?

That would only happen when testpoint TP8 on the powerdriver is very high or 5volt too low (or LED is broken).
Maybe there is a connection between the circuit braker tripping and a high TP8.

Measure all testpoints on the powerdriver.
Check setting of transformer (3x3 plug) and mains voltage in your house (be careful here)

#14 9 months ago
Quoted from zaza:

That would only happen when testpoint TP8 on the powerdriver is very high or 5volt too low (or LED is broken).
Maybe there is a connection between the circuit braker tripping and a high TP8.
Measure all testpoints on the powerdriver.
Check setting of transformer (3x3 plug) and mains voltage in your house (be careful here)

I've measured the test points. I'm trying to learn how to check the plug. If you mean how much voltage is at the wall outlet, it's 122v. If you mean at the circuit breaker, I'd have to learn to check first.

Test results

TP1 18.4V
TP2 4.8V
TP3 12.1V
TP6 88V
TP7 26.7V
TP8 22v

#15 9 months ago

Besides TP2 (too low) and TP3 (those are regulated),the voltages are much higher than normal. That explains why LED2 is OFF on the powerdriver.

Here you can find the jumper settings for your region:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Early_WPC_Transformers_.289_pin_connection.29

#16 9 months ago
Quoted from zaza:

Besides TP2 (too low) and TP3 (those are regulated),the voltages are much higher than normal. That explains why LED2 is OFF on the powerdriver.
Here you can find the jumper settings for your region:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Early_WPC_Transformers_.289_pin_connection.29

Are these wires ok? I'm in the US. They appear offset a row compared to the picture in the link above.

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#17 9 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

Are these wires ok? I'm in the US. They appear offset a row compared to the picture in the link above.

They are wrong and you are correct about 1 row being off. Move terminals 4-5-6 straight over to 7-8-9

9db19afcc4a8c5e99f28ed205ee7eae6226e677b (resized).jpg

#18 9 months ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

They are wrong and you are correct about 1 row being off. Move terminals 4-5-6 straight over to 7-8-9

Well first of all, thanks for helping find this!

If this is the problem, I'm really confused at how this came to be. I'm scared to repin it because, how did it work at the old house this way? I'm trying to think if anyone else might have touched this.

#19 9 months ago

Before you start moving the jumpers be sure that the connector on transformer-side is still in original configuration.
Seen by the heatshrink, it could be different.

If you can make a picture from the other side of the connector with clear view of the WHT-ORN / WHT-BRN / BLK etc wires, it might give some answers.

For now it looks to be wired for 103Vac

#20 9 months ago

I hope this got it. If not, just let me know, I have no problem trying again.

Thanks zaza!!!

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#21 9 months ago

I'm going to wait to hear back before trying anything, but just to let you know, I cannot figure out how to remove the pins...

#22 9 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

I'm going to wait to hear back before trying anything, but just to let you know, I cannot figure out how to remove the pins...

You will either need a pin extractor or a very narrow tool/pick to carefully bend the pins inward and then they will slide out. A very BRIGHT light helps too.

To me, your connector definitely looks to be wired improperly for USA. As to how it worked before? Shit happens.

#23 9 months ago

Ok, I see now that WHT-BRN is extended to BLK-WHT into the connector. That one got me confused.
So you can safe move them as shown in post #17 by snakesnsparklers.

#24 9 months ago

Your game is wired for 103V not 115V. If the power and/or outlet at your old house was closer to 110V, it might have worked fine. The problem could be that the outlet at your new house is closer to 120V.

#25 9 months ago

This tool makes removing the pins easy https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W-HT-2038

You might be able to find a piece of metal tubing at a hobby shop that fits right over the pins to be able to remove them.

Where are you located? Maybe a local Pinsider can come over and help you repin that connector?

#26 9 months ago

Thanks all.

Well, it took a while to get those pins out without damaging them. My back is telling me to lay down now

I turned it on, not knowing what to expect, and at first glance, the only thing different is that LED2 on the driverboard is now lit. Which is great. I'll test voltages again in a few minutes. The CPU is still stuck with D19 and D21 lit. The DMD is still showing non moving snowy image.

Thanks again. That's progress at least.

#27 9 months ago

TP1 was 18.4V now 15.8
TP2 was 4.8V now 4.8
TP3 was 12.1V now 12.1
TP6 was 88V now 75.8
TP7 was 26.7V now 22.4
TP8 was 22v now 18.6

#28 9 months ago

Leds on the board 124567 are lit.

Now, are my CPU chips in the right way?

IMG_20180306_073543672[1] (resized).jpg

#29 9 months ago

Those values are now normal. Only TP2 is still low and that is the voltage for all logic components and might give a constant reset on the CPU-board.

The chips are seated correct.

try to reseat power connectors J101, J114 (left and right on powerdriver) and J210 (cpu-board) and boot again.

#30 9 months ago

I reseated the 3 connectors, and tried again. Same scenario. D19 stays lit. D20 flashes for an instant then stays off. D21 stays lit.

I can try reseating the chips. I also have a rottendog CPU board I can try.

#31 9 months ago

Does this indicate something needs to be rebuilt in the driver board to get to 5v on TP2?

#32 9 months ago

Best is to start to get a proper 5 Volt from the powerdriver.

Pinwiki has a lot of info about this subject:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#WPC_5VDC_Power_Derivation_Path

#33 9 months ago
Quoted from zaza:

Best is to start to get a proper 5 Volt from the powerdriver.
Pinwiki has a lot of info about this subject:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#WPC_5VDC_Power_Derivation_Path

YES! YES! and YES! do these steps to solve 5VDC problems.

#34 9 months ago

I will look into these steps.

Thanks to each of you for the help.

1 week later
#35 9 months ago

Update on this T2 Pin. I sent my driver board in to get repaired. I also ordered a new rottenddog driver board which I istalled it tonight. TP2 now gets 5.1 volts (instead of the original board with 4.8), but the CPU still does not boot. D19 lit, D20 off, D21 lit.

I again swapped the CPU chips over to a new rottendog MPU board, and I have the same results.

I'm thinking now that I should I buy new CPU chips? I've tried booting with the data cables off, and the cabinet stuff disconnected, just power to the driver board and CPU, always the same result.

I'm happy to try any suggestions here. I can take pictures and videos if that will help.

I'm in Spokane Washington btw. Does anyone know anyone nearby that an help?

Thank you for any assistance.

#36 9 months ago

When you swapped the chips (processor-ROM-ASIC) from the original board to the new RD-MPU board and still don't boot, there isl likely something wrong with one of them.

LED 20 can give a number of flashes depending on what chip is faulty. But as D20 stays OFF, it might be the processor 68B09EP at U4.

#37 9 months ago
#38 9 months ago

Yes, that is the correct one.

btw, there is one on the soundboard in a socket too, you can borrow it for a moment to test the CPU-board.

#39 9 months ago

Oh that's great. I'll see if I can do that. Thanks again.

#40 9 months ago

I swapped over the 68B09EP from the sound board to the CPU board, and same result.

My next thoughts are to buy a new chip located at U6 (not sure of the name), and then ASIC. Open to any suggestions.

#41 9 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

U6 (not sure of the name)

That is the game-ROM.

With the other 6809 intalled, did you get any flash on led D20 ?

#42 9 months ago

D20 always lights for the briefest period when the game is switched on then goes off.

I'll make a video of it.

#43 9 months ago

#44 9 months ago

It doesn't flash one or two times so there's no obivous ROM/RAM errror.

You can take the guess of putting new chips in or send the board out for repair.

#45 9 months ago
Quoted from zaza:

It doesn't flash one or two times so there's no obivous ROM/RAM errror.
You can take the guess of putting new chips in or send the board out for repair.

I think the problem is happening on the brand new Rottendog CPU board. It sounds like it's pointing more towards either bad CPU and/or bad EPROM.

I've sent more voltage than expected on logic lines on a board in the past and fried a CPU and EPROMs. If this game was configured for low line voltage and subjected to normal line voltage is it possible that > 5V was sent down logic lines? Or would the LM323K regulate it down to 5V?

#46 9 months ago

I ordered a U6 chip. If this isn't it, I'm going to try and get someone to look at it or send the boards to be inspected. I'll update after the chip gets here.

Thanks all.

#47 9 months ago

If you bought a brand new Rottendog with U9 (ASIC) then a new U4 (CPU) and U6 (game EPROM) it should work. If it doesn't then I'd contact the merchant or Rottendog. If you bought it without U9 and have a new U4 and U6 then you have to suspect U9. These can be damaged when removed from the socket.

I know it sounds stupid to mention this but make sure you have oriented the IC in the correct direction. The notch should match up or the dot should match pin 1. I was once in such a hurry to test a repair I made I put U4 in incorrectly and thought I screwed up the repair. After double checking traces and continuity it was then I noticed the problem.

#48 8 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

possible that > 5V was sent down logic lines? Or would the LM323K regulate it down to 5V?

The regulator should always keep it at 5 Volt or shutdown when supply is to out of range (< or >

Difficult to say what caused this.
Burning tantalum capacitors ?, too high line voltage ?, static discharge ?

Hope the new rom will help

#49 8 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

If you bought a brand new Rottendog with U9 (ASIC) then a new U4 (CPU) and U6 (game EPROM) it should work. If it doesn't then I'd contact the merchant or Rottendog. If you bought it without U9 and have a new U4 and U6 then you have to suspect U9. These can be damaged when removed from the socket.
I know it sounds stupid to mention this but make sure you have oriented the IC in the correct direction. The notch should match up or the dot should match pin 1. I was once in such a hurry to test a repair I made I put U4 in incorrectly and thought I screwed up the repair. After double checking traces and continuity it was then I noticed the problem.

The rottendog cpu board did not have the ASIC, U4, or U6. I transferred those from my old original board. I have a new game rom on the way as well as a new ASIC now. Looks like they will arrive around the 20th. I will not install any of these without being sure of the orientation. If I'm not sure I'll post a picture here.

#50 8 months ago
Quoted from PatS:

The rottendog cpu board did not have the ASIC, U4, or U6. I transferred those from my old original board. I have a new game rom on the way as well as a new ASIC now. Looks like they will arrive around the 20th. I will not install any of these without being sure of the orientation. If I'm not sure I'll post a picture here.

Did your original MPU boot before removing the parts?

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