(Topic ID: 170157)

Terminator 2: flipper advice

By grimholtz

7 years ago


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IMG_9751 (resized).JPG
terminator-2-flipper-assembly-2-of-2.pdf (PDF preview)
terminator-2-flipper-assembly-1-of-2.pdf (PDF preview)
#1 7 years ago

Hi,

My Terminator 2 was recently shopped. Then my son beat one of the flippers so badly that now that flipper has no power. So, my questions:

  1. I'm assuming I need to rebuild the flipper with a rebuild kit, is that correct?
  2. I'm getting mixed messages as to whether this machine has Fliptronics or not. The definitive answer must be in the manual. Here are the two relevant pages. The part numbers are C-13174-R and C-13174-L. That is not Fliptronics, correct?
  3. It's not an EOS switch, correct?
  4. Is this the correct part? If so, I know I need coil stop A-12111 (according to that page itself), but which of the coils should I choose? There are 5 listed:
    • Fl-11629
    • FL-11630
    • FL-11753
    • FL-11722
    • SFL-19-400/30-750

    I did some reading about them and see they differ in power and other details, but really cannot make a decision. I'm at the very tip of my ability doing this and am scared I'm getting in over my head (even though I can build computers and Raspberry PIs and such, this is intimidating).

terminator-2-flipper-assembly-1-of-2.pdfterminator-2-flipper-assembly-1-of-2.pdf

terminator-2-flipper-assembly-2-of-2.pdfterminator-2-flipper-assembly-2-of-2.pdf

#2 7 years ago

There is no fliptronics board.
There is an EOS switch you should check if it is clean and tight closed.

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from grimholtz:

Then my son beat one of the flippers so badly that now that flipper has no power.

Quoted from grimholtz:

I'm assuming I need to rebuild the flipper with a rebuild kit, is that correct?

First, are you sure it's a mechanical issue and not an electronic one? Have you checked voltages? Is the EOS switch adjusted properly? It should only be opened when the plunger is pulled in almost all the way, and should only have a 1/8" gap.

Quoted from grimholtz:

I'm getting mixed messages as to whether this machine has Fliptronics or not.

No, T2 is not a fliptronics game. It started with TAF.

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#WPC-89_.26_WPC-S

Quoted from grimholtz:

Is this the correct part? If so, I know I need coil stop A-12111 (according to that page itself), but which of the coils should I choose? There are 5 listed:

You do not normally need an entire flipper assembly. A rebuild kit is normally fine.

The last time I rebuilt T2 flippers, I used the slightly later WPC rebuild kit with the return springs, rather than the compression springs. The compression springs don't seem to last very long before being destroyed. I also used coil stop A-12111.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=244

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-WFLIP06

Note that these later WPC kits appear to contain coil stop A-12390, instead of A-12111. Here's a breakdown of the parts found in the PBResource rebuild kit. You don't have to get the full kit--you can order only the parts you actually need.

http://www.pbresource.com/KT-WFLIP06.html

Both PBR and PinballLife have them listed individually, so all you have to do is search for the part numbers.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

First, are you sure it's a mechanical issue and not an electronic one? Have you checked voltages?

I have not. Across which points should I check voltage?

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Is the EOS switch adjusted properly? It should only be opened when the plunger is pulled in almost all the way, and should only have a 1/8" gap.

I will check again, but I am fairly sure this was OK.

Thanks for the links. I really have no idea what I need to fix this so it's hard to choose which parts to buy. I figured that if I replaced everything (using the rebuild kit, not the flipper assembly--thanks for putting me on the right path!), it would work, even if it's not the most economical choice. Is that stupid?

#5 7 years ago

Don't be hard with your son. A properly maintained flipping mechanism is supposed to take abuse, so it is likely that it was a matter of time before your flipper would fail with any use.

Is it not flipping at all or is it flipping weakly?

Also, have you exhausted the built-in diagnostics? (Switch tests and coil tests could at least confirm which parts are OK.)

#6 7 years ago

I just redid the flipper mechs in the T2 I just got off route. Bought the kit from pinballlife.com and also bought 2 new coils (11629). Took me about an hour to clean and rebuild both and it wasn't too bad. The kit did not include the flipper bushings so get those too.

The flipper parts in my game were beyond worn out and broken. It was impossible to get the ball up either ramp. Even replaced the bats which were cracked.

IMG_9751 (resized).JPGIMG_9751 (resized).JPG

2 weeks later
#7 7 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

Don't be hard with your son. A properly maintained flipping mechanism is supposed to take abuse, so it is likely that it was a matter of time before your flipper would fail with any use.

Well, like i said, the machine was recently shopped. Less than a year before the flipper failure. And it's home-use only.

Is it not flipping at all or is it flipping weakly?

Weakly

Also, have you exhausted the built-in diagnostics? (Switch tests and coil tests could at least confirm which parts are OK.)

No, I didn't do that. Thanks for the advice. I will try it.

I wish ForceFlow would answer my other questions.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from grimholtz:

I wish ForceFlow would answer my other questions.

I didn't realize you were waiting on an answer to something. What additional questions did you have or what went unanswered?

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from grimholtz:

Well, like i said, the machine was recently shopped. Less than a year before the flipper failure. And it's home-use only.

There's something else wrong with the machine. No machine should require a rebuild after one year of home use. You can try a rebuild if you already bought the parts, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't restore the flipper strength.

Have you checked the EOS switches on the flippers? You should be able to move the flipper bats by hand and see the EOS switches open/close in the switch diagnostic.

3 weeks later
#10 7 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I didn't realize you were waiting on an answer to something. What additional questions did you have or what went unanswered?

Sorry for the delayed reply. Something wrong with my email notifications. The questions I was waiting answers to:

1. Across which points should I check voltage?

2. I really have no idea what I need to fix this so it's hard to choose which parts to buy. I figured that if I replaced everything (using the rebuild kit, not the flipper assembly), it would work, even if it's not the most economical choice. Is that stupid?

Thank you for your time!

#11 7 years ago

Posting some pictures might be able to help us help you. Post up pictures of both flipper switches (with the contact points visible), the end of stroke switches (with the contact points visible) on the flipper mechanisms as well as the flipper mechanisms. From this, we should be able to see if they have been replaced lately.

Weak flippers on this era machine can be caused by worn flipper switches (on the side of the cabinet), worn EOS, mis-adjusted EOS, mechanical issues, power issues (caused by bad solder joints, connectors, etc)

#12 7 years ago

My estimate at this point is the PDB needs solder reflowed and potentially rebuilt.

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