(Topic ID: 222275)

Television vs. DMD


By Sixmillion

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by KozMckPinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

Ok so we decided that we were going to buy a pinball machine this year. With so many options and good pins out there I started watching YouTube and searching for videos on pinball machines. Then I noticed that pinball manufacturer were starting to put these new "television sets" in them instead of the dmd. After watching countless videos of Star Wars pinball I thought why did they have to put that screen instead of the dmd. Those video clips from the movies playing over and over, I figured if I were to buy a Star Wars pin I would get tired of looking at those clips. The Star Wars films are among my favourite movies and would not want to watch pieces of these movies disected into a pinball machine video screen. Now on the other hand if this had a dmd with artfully dots I would like it much better. In my opinion I feel that the dmd is more conducive for pinball machines, I guess that is the artist in me. The focus of pinball should be on the play field not on the video screen. Sometimes "less is more " give me the dots in Metallica, spiderman, game of thrones, ghostbusters etc. Any day over recycled video clips.

#2 1 year ago

Well, I both agree and disagree.

I agree that pinball should focus on the playfield. I think the 80's screwed pinball. The dmd became a half way house for/from video games.

I disagree with dmd over lcd/led. All dot matrix can be produced, but finer graphics - if desired - are possible. I'd rather a screen that has more information and more clearly displayed.

Seriously, System 11 had it right.

#3 1 year ago

I like both. However I'm not a fan of the movie clips either, seems cheap and lazy. I'm spoiled when it comes to dmd , it needs to be in color or I'd rather the new style but with animation not clips.

#4 1 year ago

I love love the tv !infact might only buy tv in the future. It creates immersion ! It is the new way. You don’t just to hit shots you go on a Journey.
I think of mb how cool would it be seeing old clips.
Personally I think it’s gonna make pinball the best it’s ever been. Look at Batman the dark knight now play Batman 66 same toys but its got a crazy deep storythat sucks you in.
I thought dark knight sucked.
If I have a complaint it’s that you can’t always see the screen. Hieghway was on to something!

#5 1 year ago

Thanks for watching YouTube videas and telling me how it should be.

#6 1 year ago

It bugs me that pinside uses "TV screen" as the description for the new LCD displays.

They are displays, just like DMDs. Saying 'TV screen' comes with negative connotations for the old school guys.

It should say LCD.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Sixmillion:

Sometimes "less is more " give me the dots in Metallica, spiderman, game of thrones, ghostbusters etc. Any day over recycled video clips.

The movie clip dots on Spider-Man and Game of Thrones (recycled video clips) are terrible compared to what would be possible with a LCD. Agree that the focus should be gameplay, but think you're nuts otherwise.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Toasterdog:

The movie clip dots on Spider-Man and Game of Thrones (recycled video clips) are terrible compared to what would be possible with a LCD. Agree that the focus should be gameplay, but think you're nuts otherwise.

Agreed.

Also the menu and diagnostic capabilities JJP put in Dialed In are crazy. Doesn't the Stern LCD switch back to looking like a DMD when you're in menus?

#9 1 year ago

I think the film and tv clips are kind of lame. But I also think a pinball game playing music from rock bands or from tv or movies is kind of lame. But alas, it seems the pinball buying public has spoken and it wants movie clips, film music and rock music from cds.

Regarding DMDs or LCDs I’m fine with both, but I suspect creating worthy content for the LCD screens will consume more development budget than with DMD (unless film clips are used maybe). I really like the way DI solved this.

#10 1 year ago

High resolution, color LCD's are goodness and can be used artistically (check out Aerosmith). No one is forcing pinball manufacturers to use redundant video clips. I own SWLE and the theme integration is outstanding.

I get that some folks prefer DMD's/DOT's, but as you've said, the focus is on the PF. Think of all the wiz-bang high resolution LCD's as an upgraded "attract mode".

snaroff

#11 1 year ago

When i am playing I never look at the display, be it dots or lcd (video modes excepted). Only the score means anything to me, the rest is just ornamentation.

What grinds my gears is that they have this big lcd screen with teeny tiny score numbers. When playing competitively I don't want to have my chin on the other player's shoulder, just to see how the scores are going. Full disclosure: my eyes are just as old as the rest of me. Really old.

Don C.

#12 1 year ago

We have been dealing this since 2013 and still not sure any manufacturer has done it right per say.

JJP the screen is too big and being the middle of the backbox it takes your eyes a split second longer to swap between it and the playfield versus a screen between the speakers. Which I do not like, it does give your audience more to look at due to the size. Stern's location is better, but smaller screen and trying to convey as much information it takes longer to read than a dmd.

DMD's are outdated, period. The resolution is too low and monochrome is just, old. They do have advantages. Their location is great when you want to quickly look up and get information. The low resolution forced designers to use more simplistic layouts which convey only the most pertinent information in a fast easily digestible manner. While monochrome is old fashioned it is much easier to pick up versus a full digital image with various colors displayed on the screen.

Color dmd is an improvement, but the resolution is so low that it looks dated. You are also extremely limited in your color pallet.

The best imo, has been mmr when upgraded to its color display. The 16 bit style is currently in vogue. It allows it to look both modern and retro at the same time. It is limited enough as to what it can display that you have fast pick up times for reading it. The location is idea for darting your eyes up and back to the playfield. The downside to this is most likely cost. It is cheaper to take stock footage provided by a license and edit it into snippets than it is to create new art and get it approved. Much as I would like to see this route or even a 24 bit art style it is most likely cost prohibitive.

#13 1 year ago

I

Quoted from Sixmillion:

Then I noticed that pinball manufacturer were starting to put these new "television sets" in them instead of the dmd.

None of that means squat until we no longer have to get up off our stools to change channels.

Zenith_Space_Commander_600edit (resized).jpg

#14 1 year ago

I like the idea of LCDs way more than the implementation so far. It can provide so much information, interactivity, and immersion...if done correctly. Further they could easily add accessibility options that would make everyone happy. Don't like movie clips playing? Turn it off. Want the scores larger and moved from the bottom to the top? No problem. Hell, include a no-thrills faux-DMD mode for the curmudgeons

I think Stern really underestimated how much work LCD screens would be. It requires a whole new attitude with lots of dedicated engineers. They need a pipeline, well thought out systems and settings, and a bunch of programmers, designers, and artists dedicated to the task.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from dung:

We have been dealing this since 2013 and still not sure any manufacturer has done it right per say.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

I like the idea of LCDs way more than the implementation so far.

Quoted from TreyBo69:

I think Stern really underestimated how much work LCD screens would be.

I agree, the potential of using an LCD screen in pinball has yet to be realized. I don’t think any of the pinball manufacturers knew how to take advantage of LCDs, didn’t have the resources to do so, and didn’t really want to spend the money on it. But I think all that’s changing, I’m pretty impressed by what I’ve seen so far from the upcoming ACNC pin.

#16 1 year ago

Ok......I get it, a lot of people like the LCD screen as opposed to the dots. But let me just say that when I said I like the artistic look of the dmd all those dots coming together to form an image sort of like how an artist/painter takes paint from his/her pallet and then places it on the canvas. The LCD can do full motion video or photo realistic photos. So it depends on the art you like.
The LCD or television set if you will can do a lot more, I realize that. But if it is used so much so that it takes you away from the actual playing pinball then we are turning it into a video game. A video game is an imaginary world, whereas pinball is real world. I think we need to keep it simple, hence less is more sometimes.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from Sixmillion:

Ok......I get it, a lot of people like the LCD screen as opposed to the dots. But let me just say that when I said I like the artistic look of the dmd all those dots coming together to form an image sort of like how an artist/painter takes paint from his/her pallet and then places it on the canvas. The LCD can do full motion video or photo realistic photos. So it depends on the art you like.
The LCD or television set if you will can do a lot more, I realize that. But if it is used so much so that it takes you away from the actual playing pinball then we are turning it into a video game. A video game is an imaginary world, whereas pinball is real world. I think we need to keep it simple, hence less is more sometimes.

Funny you are supporting DMD with this argument. I actually prefer System 11 games as their display is purely informational until the ball drains. No video mode trying to be a video game. No animation to watch during game play.

Again, it's HOW lcd screens are or are not being utilized that seems to be the issue with most posters here.

For the record, I love my push button start car. Don't miss the keys at all.

#18 1 year ago

the mistake was moving away from reels
all you needed to know in a glance

#19 1 year ago

I think JJP did it best, purely for the fact that once I got used to it, I could glance at the screen and know where I was in the game. All the information was always on the screen. I compared that to Tron (my favorite game ever), and of hit the disc... and two shots later it would tell me how many shots were left. And the stupid vertical line of the DMD, split into 3 sections and used as a mode countdown by how many dots were still lit? Lame. So done right, a higher resolution display can convey more information quickly to the player.

The tech is there, but it’s all about the programming.

(Disclaimer: I love Tron. I just wish it conveyed info to me in a better way).

#20 1 year ago

I think that there's much more opportunity with an LCD than a DMD. Up to now though it hasn't necessarily been utilised to the best.

JJP games show that much information that it's very difficult to glean that information while having the ball still in play.

IMHO AS uses the LCD screen the best. All the data you need is easily visible (once you understand what the symbols mean) - how many Jacky shots left for extra ball, how many petals left to complete mode. Simple. As well as having original (if somewhat cheesy) cartoon graphics.

GotG also uses the screen fairly well, with the addition of video clips - usually relevant to what's going on on the playfield.

If you've got a movie themed pin, can you imagine the uproar if there were no movie clips? Plus putting a movie clip in is likely to work out significantly cheaper than having to create something from fresh.

The trick is finding the balance between, original content / movie clips / mode progressions / too much information in small font - I don't think any machine has it quite right yet, but it's still in it's infancy; it should only get better.

#21 1 year ago

I would say, a lot depends on what type of game play you like. Also how good your eye are.

Lots of modes and deep rule set = LCD
Moderate modes and rule set =DMD
Simple modes and rule set = Alphanumeric.
Spell name of game and basic rules = Numeric.

I still prefer the DMD. Just too much info for my eyes to handle with the new LCD screens.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Sixmillion:

Ok......I get it, a lot of people like the LCD screen as opposed to the dots.

Actually I have both and like both. I think both can be done very well (see plenty of DMDs), and horribly (see Aerosmith). Showing not a ton of info (See SW), or a massive amount (See The Hobbit).

But like you say it's all art so it's all just opinions. Some people like the goofy look of Stern ST and some people not.

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

I

None of that means squat until we no longer have to get up off our stools to change channels.
[quoted image]

Doodly Squat

https://imgur.com/r/HighQualityGifs/Gk7wdgD

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