They promised an "exciting gameplay experience" which Munsters is not. It's about as dull, repetitive and shallow as they come. When CASUALS at locations hate it in droves, that's a problem. Sitting right next to an Attack from Mars, which probably has LESS code, the AfM DESTROYED it in earnings, even the first week at the location I helped with.

Pretty sure the GI is just zoned single-color LEDs, not RGB LEDs. They've done that on a lot of games from X-MEN forward.

Yeah the original press release calling it stupefyingly dull and dumb didn’t get approved by marketing.

Pretty sure “exciting” is subjective though, I don’t think this would hold up in court.

I think people might be in the wrong hobby, or might have to do some reflecting, if they have a "hate" for a pinball machine.

Sure, there are pins that I really don't like, but Munsters is definitely not the worst.

Nobody promised anything.

People who are creating expectations beyond what is advertised, to justify the money they spent on a pinball machine... probably shouldn't be buying pinball machines.

I don't think anyone's going to real court on this, but in the court of location customers Munsters already lost pretty much exactly for that failure to deliver an exciting game promised.

...the spinning disc, chest ball lock, pf layout, top left flipper, spammy button....

True, it's not a widebody, it's missing a ship, and involves turtles, and costs $500 less.

JJP must be flattered...

I'm just waiting for an operator to post a demand that Stern create an earnings guarantee.

So when Stern ships you your next pin, it will come with a promise ring in the goodie bag.

The designer will wear the other promise ring. So when the code isn't to your liking, you can cry to them "YOU PROMISED!"

So in the future, situations such as this travesty... this terrible, awful pinball machine called Munsters... never, ever, happen again.

Stern needs to tell you what you are buying? You make it sound like they just ship you a mystery box and you have to open it up to see what is inside. Stern shows you exactly what you are getting. They do extensive videos on features, gameplay, and commentary from the team on both the LE/premium and pro. There is a feature matrix, hi-res photos, and the pinside community critics the game down to the dust on the playfied. Games are in production for months so you have plenty of opportunity to play one yourself. What more do you need?

To be honest there isn't much in it for me. But when I'm playing the game I'm not too focused on the screen... The voices/callouts I'll give you but at the end of the day its still not getting in the way of the gameplay.

Neil.

I know this is a Munsters thread but I just pulled the trigger on a TMNT pro. I hope to own a Munsters in the future as well.

Fully agreed, no game will sell if you tell everyone upfront it’s going to be simple and you’ll only get a few meaningful code updates. The OP that said we have no one to blame but ourselves is sucking up to Dwight and Stern. If that’s the case, we should all stop buying all unfinished games, till a year later, when they’re actually completed code wise and Stern can kiss LE sales goodbye. Because we all know when the hype simmers down, so do the sales.

Stern creates expectations by past patterns, code update wise. Hence the reason we’re willing to buy unfinished games. It is reasonable to assume based on past production, that code will improve on any Stern game, since we have past patterns to observe. Do you think for one second if Keith Elwin would have been on Munsters that he would let the code be so simple and shallow as Munsters? Not a chance!

Lol, using a Beatles Boutique game as an example that cost more: come on OP, get real. Completely irrelevant, since it is not a cornerstone game like Munsters. The examples I used of deep well coded games, were all apples to apples comparisons, of other equally priced cornerstone games. We all know what they were trying to achieve with Beatles upfront. Take a good look at sales numbers on that one. They were dismal to say the least. It cost Stern more in reputation than the tiny profit made. Would think they’d not have done that one, if they knew how bad the outcome would be sales and reputation wise.

I was an early Munsters adopter...bought it because I grew up with the show and liked the art package. Ended up not liking it...didn't put more than 30-50 plays on it IIRC. Game was much too simplistic for my taste. Lost money. Who is to blame? ME. Solution: Play before you pay.

Everyone's perception of "exciting gameplay experience" will be different. Some folks LOVE BM66...not me. Sure, it's "deep" by some definition, but none of the shots feel great. For me, it's all about shot feel. Not true for other folks.

I respect Stern for building games that suit different audiences (Beatles being another interesting example).

Ha ha! Plenty of Munsters love still
around.

Congrats, looks like an awesome game

Well, that's a convenient thing to say, but it doesn't work for the majority of the areas of the US. Pinball saturation is anything but in 2020. There are SOME areas that have a wealth of location play, and others that have literally none for hundreds of miles. It's not always possible to play before you pay.

Now you're getting it.

All I can say is THANK GOD Stern's casepack rarity scam failed on Beatles and sales bombed with the glut of golds left over after they shot their wad on the initial shipment, using up all the platinum and diamond bait. All three tiers have dumped in price as a result, and they'll likely never get to the 1964 total pins they said because the rest of the run won't happen.

Beatles is an iron man situation waiting to happen.

A few years from now it’ll be sought after and prices will be way up.

Meh. Iron Man is a FUN, abusive short ride you want to do again and again, and the market finally caught up with it. Beatles is just sort of there. If prices go up on Beatles eventually, it will be from fans of the band (who are also dying off at an alarming rate, so...) who don't mind having a pin with a 1960's girl's lunchbox color scheme and not because it's an awesome hidden gem of a game.

History has shown Lonnie takes a long time on code and Dwight's last 3 games weren't received very well. So i'm struggling to see why they are upset about people bashing them. Stranger Things was barren at launch again proving everyone's point. Dwight with TMNT has an opportunity to prove everyone wrong and it looks like its going well so far.

Well, in this modern age, "Play before you play" can also mean "Watch someone else play before you pay." Every new game released nowadays gets streamed to no end by at least a dozen or more streamers, and many of those streams get posted to Youtube as well if Twitch ain't your bag. And while nothing beats putting your hands on a game, you can learn a lot from watching someone else play. And you can certainly get a feel for the depth of code.

I like playing Munsters on location quite a bit, but I'm not sure I'd ever own one. Munsters taught everyone to be careful about assuming that games will get major code updates. And while sight-unseen buyers do bear some responsibility, Stern does as well. After all they had previously set the precedent for making deeper games that get lots of updates.
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Not sure what any of this has to do with the TMNT pin though! I seriously would love to own one; code and gameplay look great. But I'd have to sell my other pins to afford a TMNT, and I'm not sure that I'm ready to only have one pin in the house.

The reason people are talking about it is Dwight did Munsters and TMNT and they blame Dwight for Munsters being a huge code fail stinkbomb, when I'm pretty sure most of that was a result of orders he got limiting him and not his inherent ability to code pins.

Star Wars had multiple runs.

Ghostbusters sold very, VERY well.

Both ended up with solid code.

Munsters is Dwight's only real stinkbomb in the last 10 years or so. You'd have to go back to Sopranos to have another not-great Dwight pin, and even that is WAY better than Munsters.

Right, but in this case TMNT clearly all ready has strong code. So unless Stern went insane and removed features from upcoming code updates, I don't see what's to worry about from a rules/code department at this point.

I bought an LE

I do hope this is the keychain plastic

IMG_20200529_233019 (resized).jpg

What you're shown on the stream is what they want you to see. The fact that they specifically don't want Jack to say what version code he's playing on the streams on is telling. He said they didn't want him to tell multiple times on the stream when people asked.

That said, it LOOKS more complete, but there are still a lot of janky things on screen happening with timings, etc that need to be cleaned up. But the only way to know for sure what state the code is in is to actually PLAY it hands on or watch a stream from someone not controlled by Stern.

Meh.

All my friends LOVE to play beatles.. So do I. Cause it’s fun. It’s also the Beatles. It’s an abusive short ride you just want to do again

You’ll see!!! When the remaining stock gets sucked up and stern doesn’t make any more, this one will start to get hot. You’ll Just have to grimace and accept the rising prices and popularity in the aftermarket.

Pin heads have literally zero idea what they actually want, and put way too much stock in what the mob says instead of thinking for themselves. That’s why you saw on sale flops and pinside punching bags like POTC and Iron Man going for a huge premium years after they flopped. Even “turds” like Rolling Stones and WOF go for more now than they did NIB because they are good games. It’ll happen again.

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Beatles is a pretty fun game with more in it than you'd think. It's very satisfying to play.

Honesty. You can’t be that naive

“Play before you play”

If it’s a great theme I like and Lyman is on the code or now Elwin is doing the game then yeah, I don’t need to play it first. They get my benefit of the doubt And I’ll buy up front

Or if Eddy and/or Mike V are involved I’m prob leaning all in

IF this game turns out great, I’d buy it later down the road

Not a theme I like to begin with

Buy what you like and good luck!

Yes it is. And it’s the Beatles.

Next question?

On Last Action Hero.....I don't think you need to hit the 5 CRANE drops in order. You just need to knock all 5 of them down without hitting the bar behind the ones that have already been dropped. If you hit the mono target bar behind them....all 5 reset. I thought that was a great feature, but I think having to drop all 5 in order, plus not hitting the mono target behind that area would be near impossible.

I'm doing the same thing
Girlfriend wanted this one anyway.

Dwight > Lyman

*Flame suit on*

Dwight > Lyman

Joke. Lol

You need more than a flame suit sorry

Bought a Turtles...didn’t buy Elvira. Maybe I’m putting my money where my mouth is

I might pop on an EHOH instead of TMNT myself.

And I might venture to say Keith is better than both of them...gotta get a few more games under his belt but I like what I’m seein’

Put down the alcohol, and step away from the bar. You're about to black out at this rate...

Boy...this thread got derailed.

Did not click with me at all. The display work screamed cheap. I was shocked to find it was using panning stills for the historical concerts when there's PLENTY of footage out there that could have been used. Gameplay was just *okay*. Certainly not worth what they were, emphasis on were, asking.

And, uh...how 'bout them TMNTs?

Both are good choices. I'm hoping once the line starts moving again, the prices on EHOH will go down a little. They're up right now because people have figured out that it's a good game, and distros don't really have any in stock I don't think. So hopefully more NIB EHOH will start shipping soon.

Well you are in the EXTREME minority of people that believe Dwight > Lyman

But whatever floats your boat

That narrative to sell this pin? It’s like saying some stiff is better than Michael Jordan

You drunk again?

I’m ok with that

How is it naive to make intelligent buying decisions? That makes no sense. Naive is buying that $9000 LE the minute it's announced because it's a cool theme with no memory of Stern's past and the expectation it will be magically transformed into a great pin by some software update.

I enjoy a level of randomness that a spinning disc provides. Moreso than under the playfield magnets, because you can see the behavior better and react to it. I think they have a really interesting PRo model. I would have been upset if the van was useless on the Pro, but since it still lock and releases a ball, I am
In on the pro.

I think the ball gets stopped by a post before releasing to the upper flipper and then the other balls launch from the trough. so the truck is "useless," no?

Umm it does transform into a great pin when Llyman codes.
I'm sure he does a lot in his own time also.