Joined the club this week. F'in lovin' this game. So fun.

IMG_20211224_100043 (resized).jpg

I think once the code gets completed (1.5 is feeling pretty good, but hopefully we get a surprise like gotg or kiss), and it gets used in some big tournaments it'll get some serious love.
My only gripe right now is that I'm playing it so much I can't scrap the theme song out of my brain. Even with turning off the 'licenced theme's, thank jebas it has that at least.

Edit/add-on: Does anyone know how many pro units Stern turned out? My s/n is in the early 9000's and I'm the third owner so I'm assuming this wasn't at the end of production.

Not that I know of, I might've phrased that wrong, I just meant they already sold over 9000 units at least a year ago.
More of just curious how many there are out there already. I couldn't find anything online with even an estimate.
Stern seems pretty secretive when production actually stops. Or it seems like it. I'm guessing when it slows down they probably have tons left in the warehouse and are worried the demand for the title will drop even more if people know the demand has lessened. Pure armchair guess though.

Interesting. Yeah, it makes sense what you're saying. There's over 12,000 difference between our serial number if that helps. From what I've read and observed about my pf art, it's likely an early(ish) production.

Many thanks Dwight, awesome game, keep it up!

Re: NPP and game balance
I should reserve my opinion until I try the new code for a bit (just updated with the April Animation mod (so awesome))-- but I'm going to chime in anyways in hopes that i come across as helping and not just ranting.
I think there should be a bonus like NPP after every level achieved. At least each level after 2 anyways. As it is, leveling up is riskier than the reward is worth (and esp if the lair save is off). And it's not like NPP just starts, you have to work for it too. Also it's more lucrative just to go for stacking of epps., mb's, multipliers, and hope for some hurry-ups along the way. I'd say right now it's safer to go for 2 of the same hurry-up shots than it is to get the training multiplier and hit it once. Another bonus is that the npp uses the ramp targets that are underutilized in the game (changing epps is not that important in tmnt, imo. Not enough to be worth the risky shots anyways).
So adding possible mb's to light after the levels would make leveling up another tenable path to climb, points strategy wise, imo. As it is, even with npp after lv2, I don't think I'd ever go for leveling up in a tournament strategy (well, not at my skill level anyways). I do sometimes go for training because it's just so damn fun at home though. I love that each level has its own music. And the animation if your successful is one of my favorites in all of pinball.
...
Speaking of tournamentstrategies, I can't wait to see this game in some big tournaments. Getting rid of the bugs is definitely going to make this a real option for important games. Keep it up Dwight! You're awesome!

Just played a game with the 1.51. It feels like there's some nice little tweaks like some new audio and some nice use of the gi. I was just expecting some bug fixes but it feels like more than that. Impressed so far.

As a side note I haven't had a TP reset in ages. The last time I had it, I remember it being very had to figure out the exact state it was in so I didn't bother reporting it. Hoping this gets resolved before the code gets 'completed'. Seems like a thing like BSD where it's such a major bug TD's will shy away from using the game in important matches (like when 10k prizes are involved).
I've also done a clean install with a new SD from an image (the April Ani mod)--so I don't think I could or should report if it happens again. But I'm curious if this problem has been officially resolved. And also if people who have had this issue has tried doing a clean install instead of just updates.
-j

I keep forgetting to post my future contribution to TMNT. I found I kept wanting a reference to the pizza toppings so I decided to make custom score cards. I'm pretty happy with them and have use the 'pizza menu' quite a few times. They still need a few tweaks but I'll post the images when they're done.
Making the 'Pizza menu ' made me jealous of you prem/le owners for the mushroom toppings. I wish Dwight could've added it to the pros somehow. I know the limitations of the pro lair but maybe a timed lock up at the pizza parlor? Meh, a guy can dream can't he?

20220401_161641 (resized).jpg

Sure is! It made me respect how much rules there are. I know Dwight is a big board game fan and it show when you break down the rules visually.
Believe it or not, I edited a lot out. But I knew I wanted the pizza toppings and the level bonuses for reference. After that everything else just seemed necessary to me. Especially things like how to re-light mb's.
Most of the font isn't any smaller than the original card too, so it's all quite readable. But yeah, this would be quite daunting to anyone coming up to the machine to play it for the first time.

Nah, that sounds like another issue. I would've done what you did. ...maybe a bad SD card? I've also know people who've had a bad power supply nib that was causing reseting randomly too. Worth looking into.

Jealous of the topper. Gotta take off that duplicate logo though.

...

Have you guys noticed with the 1.51 they also tweaked and added some call outs? April now calls out the extra ball. I don't remember a call out before for when an EB is available and I noticed one call out from spliter and another from April.
I also think I heard a new variation from Leo and maybe Raph when the training starts.
Besides that, audio wise, I've noticed ...or I think I have... that there is less cutting off of phrases. Especially when the episodes start.
All positive changes imo.

I got the TP MB reset for the first time for months. I feel like I had a good idea what the state was, so I sent it to the bug department.

This is what I sent:
"Game: tmnt pro
Ver: 1.51
Bug: game reset on turtle power mb

Game state:
Playing Leo
No level up advancements
2 or 3 episodes completed

Started episode Beabop and Rocksteady
Started TP MB.
Lost a few balls that came back from ball save.
Hit a couple jackpots, hit a couple right orbit shots (episode shots).
-Lost 1 ball (but I'm not sure what shots I may have hit if any at the same time or just after)
-1 ball in pizza parlor (this may have happened before or after the next step.)
-feature lights turn off (but flippers still working).
-shortly after lose flipper power.
-gi lights and Backbox lights go out
- lcd displays "Turtle Power 400,000" (the only thing on at this point)
-full reset after a few seconds."
__________________________

Anyone who gets this bug keep reporting it to [email protected] , even if you don't remember the state perfectly. They got to fix this damn thing. As an owner it doesn't bother me but I'd hate to see this happen in a big tournament. It'll give the game a bad reputation.

Good info. No, I haven't tried yet with the glass off. I bought a few mods a while back, I'll try that when I get time to install them.
It would also be a good opportunity to figure out what the damn marshmallows do too.

Hmm, interesting. You'd need some pretty professional tools to rule that out. You would hope that stern would've done that but who knows.

I wish I had this much experience with team up. There's some great progression in the MB's. I just got to Final battle for the first time; Ive only got to the second level but I was really impressed with it.
There's so many wierd little rules in the game. I wish the booklet they released had a bit more information so we could make sense of things like this. Maybe they want some surprises, but when things like what you're experiencing happen, it's just confusing.

Hope you guys are reporting it. Only takes a few minutes and I think only constant nagging will get rid of this problem.

Agreed! The tough ones don't seem to get much love when they are first released ...like bsd and shadow. This might just take time.

Good points. I think there's a couple of other factors why players are getting poor first impressions. One, this game is pretty finicky about setup. If an operator just sets it steep wanting to make it harder this game suffers more than others.
Secondly I think the game looks like it should be straight forward but is sneakily cleaver. Especially the right ramp to orbit is so quick that it takes get some getting use to. I think that it looks like other games but plays very different can frustrate some.
I wasn't a big fan the first few games I played myself before I owned one; even though I really wanted to like it too due to the theme. Luckily one fell in my lap and after a few dozen games I've learned to love it. Definitely an acquired taste for the veteran pinhead.

Interesting view on the story telling vs tournament focus of code.
People don't seem to take everything into account when posting ratings. Although it may be the format of the review too. For instance if theme integration had it's own category, titles like Maiden would take quite a hit imo. Overall I'm fine with tmnt being in the top 50. I haven't checked reviews recently but haters seemed to be just 'tried to like it, couldn't get into it'--which is fair enough. There's so many titles and so many great games that developers can cater games for different tastes.
Also, I think I'd rather own a game I thought was underrated than owning a game everyone thought was overrated.

I'll second that. The pizza saves the ball more often than it throws it down the middle. But it still keeps me on my toes which I like.
I recently watched a release party video where Sullivan or one of the engineers was saying a lot of thought and time went into the programming of it. It really shows imo. It actually works so well that I think many people look past it as a huge plus on this game. And I don't think it's a stretch to say it's the best implementation of a spinning disk in any pinball game. It takes the best of effects of games like twister and lost in space and takes all the drawbacks aways from games like whirlwind (which really isn't much, but i had to name a game) and fireball.
The software and engineers really should get a big pat of the back for this one. I mean, how many toys in a game or so well implemented into the gameplay like this one.
My only want is to see the magnet used somewhere else in the code. Not sure how though, maybe just at the beginning of tumb or something: just have one ball come around to the magnetized pizza hold it for a second and release it (without spinning). ...I'm obviously hoping for a big update from Dwight at sometime in the future. The code is great but has the potential for so much more.

I'll see your '3rd that!' and add a 'here here!'.

Agreed on the backglass. I'm even having a hard time thinking of a runner up. ...maybe godzilla, gotg?.

So I'm late to the party but it looks like a new tmnt movie is slated for Aug 2023. I'm really hoping this could mean stern wants the code clean (and maybe a bit more sexy) by then for another run. Considering that releases have slowed down because of so many existing stern games in demand hopefully it gives time to some programmers to clean up this code.

My wish list:
1. Make the scoring more exciting: I love that this game isn't all 'point salad' like so many others, but when I do have a good ball I want to look up at the score and go 'Holy $#×!', which doesn't happen now . I'm convinced Dwight could find a way but I know it can be tricky to stay ballenced. Ideas: A: training is tough but even though only lit shots progress, they themselves are worth next to nothing on their own. Increase points at least a little bit. Or make the perks a bit higher. As of now you'd be a bit nuts to go for this for a tournament strategy. Too far on the risky side over reward for even an above average player on a tough shooting game. B: increase episode shot points: make extra shots (before you cash out) extra valuable. Maybe even a partial multiplier, or just extra time, then make the extra time a bonus on the episode. C: just double all the points? I know it's not quite this simple due to math (easy for it go out of ballance) but right now 40-60mil is a great game. It just seems like even if it was around 100mil, it's a more satisfying benchmark.
2. Make the pro's action button used more than once a game: even when playing mikey I only get to the pizza eating contest once on even a great game. I'm resigned to having the button almost useless on the pro but at least have the option more than once a game. And on default you can seemingly only get an eb like every 30 times IF i even get to PEC. Ideas for fixing/sexy-ing up: A: add pizza slices to pop bumper mysteries. B: each time you hit a pizza target you have a (very) short time hit the button to eat a secret second one. C: ballance the target pizza slices to new rules. Maybe eb on second target amount reached(?) Reduce points off of PEC: 4mil is a lot already. Maybe just by like 25% if there is possibility of getting 2 a game.
3. Add a settings option to reduce the Nuetrito MB back down to 2 trainings completed. For the love of pinball Dwight, I'm begging you please have mercy on us who aren't sold on buying the qr code readers. (I know, I know, your getting presure from head office, ...maybe you could hide it then in the setting and just 'leak' the Konami code) .
4. Make the animation a bit more exciting. I'm not a hater here. Overall I like it, but only if there was someone who did all the work already to say, one major character that would make the animation that much better. (I know, I know, licensing issues, ... egos of existing staff...) Fact is, someone made a homebrew better version.
5. Fix the bugs. ...please, please, please. Especially the tpmb, that thing is embarrassing.
...just a thought.

Oh, Irma, haha, no, I was scandell's April mod.

The disc, the right ramp and orbit for sure. The disc might be higher on tmnt and ramp lower. Definite similarities though. I'm not a fan of twister but the mb start is fun. Having the balls drop from the trail/guide (sky?) is a bit cooler than tmnts flipper ski too disc.

...

No thoughts on my rule tweaks anyone? Is everyone else happy with the code so far?

After a day of tmnt borg-ing me I've been trying to figure out another way to make the game a bit more friendly. ...out of the box that is, so no homebrew mods or tweeks because most operators won't do that. ... anyways, the only thing I can think, software wise to cut down on the frustrating left outlane drains is to have the April ball saves accumulative. So each extra ball save you get from April targets or mystery pops would be kept in memory. This could accumulate so that both lanes could be lit at the same time (especially if the slings change lanes) or if Dwight makes the flipper lane change default and just keep one side lit but kept lit if one is on que.
...just (another) thought.

Man, I thought at least they would give you neutrino at the beginning of every game if you're leveled up past 3. Brutal. Yet another reason for the neutrino mb to go back down to 2. ...and another reason for me not to buy an ic for this pin.

It sounds like a bomb defusing movie scene. ..."what ever you do, don't cut the red wire!!"...

Or have it lock in the parlor. The mushroom is really the thing in the prem that I'm most jealous of. Would love to see in impemented some how on the pro.. ...but I've given up hope.

I don't find an imbalance. It can be a bit of a slog ...similar to LOTR in my opinion. Similar score amounts too. I wrote a few pages back about how I think Dwight could make the scoring a bit more sexy. But I know it's quite a balancing act. And considering the co-op mode works so well with the same ruleset I'm sure it's more so than most games. One of the gripes players have (especially new players) is that the multiballs aren't worth much on their own. The more I play this game I'm learning that there can be a lot of points actually, but you have to really work for them. Those super jackpots can be quite lucrative. I'd still like more of a wow factor though when you have a great ball and look at your score.
Curious, what imbalances did you find the first time around with tmnt? I've only had this title since 1.41 code so I didn't get to experience some of the growing pains. There were some specific scoring fixes in one of the last 2 updates. Something about missing scoring when completing certain objectives. I didn't really notice it though.

Sex sells, brother.

Really? I think there's tons of risk reward. The training itself is a huge risk where even if you don't drain making specific shots there's no points unless you also have a good game on top of it. Even just lighting the ball save is a bit riskier then many games. And the outlane ball save is SO important on borg layouts.
I guess on the other side of things there's often often only one shot to make in this game. It would be cool if there was an option for a harder shot to be worth more. ....for instance in cashing out you episode the center ramp was worth double, and the lair shot was worth 1.5x or something. Or like I said earlier that the extra shots (shots that don't finish the episode) add bigger points such as adding time then the episode timer is worth more when you do cash out.
But yeah, I guess there's often only one shot in this game to make at a time. But I think that's what makes it also such a tough game. Even BSD has more shots that work towards something simultaneously than tmnt does. Tmnt is unforgiving in layout AND rules.
As we all know here though is that the payoff when you have your shots dialed in there no more fun of a game.
Definitely some tweaks that could happen on this game to make it more fun though.

It can be worth a lot. It takes time to build though. I'm realizing why Dwight Sullivan is called the creator of moments: I think foot123 is thematically really well done. It (the foot soldiers attacking) usually gets in the way; you have to either survive them to continue many things or defeat them to get them out of the way. It's pretty clever.
Points wise, if you kill the spinner and get a couple multipliers going it can be worth millions. I often don't even think of finishing then until ball 3.
I think the tricky thing is, if he increased the value then you may have to on other things. ...which I'd be fine with; I think the scoring could be tweaked. But I think if you compare it to lotr scoring it already might be more balanced.

Well yeah, totally, if you only aimed to get a max foot123 your not going to have a great score. A good game would probably be between 5-10mil I'd guess. But I think it's more designed to work in combination with other modes and hurry ups. For instance your likely get a krang or 2 and some value from when the right orbit goes to the pops trying to get food123. Although that's not a lot of points either.
But also, like I said, I think foot123 is meant to be a (thematic) annoyance as much as an opportunity for points.
I'm curious too about a max points. I vaguely remember a good completion worth around 2 mil., which is around what you get for a good completed epp.
For any strategy that goes for any of the hurryups as main points though you'd have to pick the right turtle and level up. I think it's Don for foot123. So, Don L3 and a 2x pf could get you the best chance of a huge foot payout. I'd guess 3 to 6 mil. just for the foot123.

No, I just mean you I dont purposely go to complete it on ball 1 or 2 because the value will be higher on ball 3. The value increases with the spinner. I find IF I complete it early (often by accident) I only score a few hundred thousand. Plus, like many hurry ups in pinball it's there as a diversion. If you can stay focused on your strategy instead, especially if it's safe shots, you'll get further into the game and have a better score.
J

That would be cool. I could see that.

I've been getting back into pinball podcasts again and I just listened to a couple on Dwight Sullivan:
This one is more of a history of his career and games. It really emphasizes his love of 'moments' in pinball (I think there's a ton in tmnt; my favorites are completing weapon and training, anyways...). But also talks about his games known for having bugs which they seem to connect to his complicated codes (hmh, :/ )

https://thepinballnetwork555350716.wordpress.com/2021/01/30/silverball-chronicles-ep-11-dwight-sullivan-the-creation-of-complexity/
...oh, they also talk about how a lot of his games have hidden things and flipper codes. Sounds like he was one of the first to start doing this. I haven't come across any in tmnt, has anyone else? Seems like a perfect game for some clever Easter eggs.

This one is an interview with him right after TMNT came out (I'm sure it's been posted here before on one of the 180 pages). But it's a good one and has lots of into on how the code came together and potential for future fixes:

Listen to Ep 37: Talkin' Turtles with Dwight Sullivan by LoserKid Pinball Podcast on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/1rcQJ
...some really good stuff on what tough choices he had to make including relegating Casey Jones to a team up member. Earlier it sounds like they wanted to have him as a secondary character like splinter and April. Including having his own target.

Anyways, just wanted to share because appreciating Dwight's coding has increased my love for this game. The code is really underrated and I think a lot of players get hung up on criticizing the gameplay and completely miss that the code is so well thematically integrated into the game.

That's great. Thanks man.

I've fought myself from 'de-borging' mine. Like the rest of the game I'm (still) trying to take it as a challenge. Once the ball is close though there's no saving it; I've never been able to shimmy it out. The only thing is to be proactive on the dangerous bounces. Mine seems to be the top of the right sling and the top left corner of the left inlane rubber. When I recognize it I'll give it a good nudge forward, bump or good shake. Often getting a warning and Ive got it set pretty loose. But I've been really close some days in putting a rubber bumper in. Can be so frustrating when you get a ball save then the ball screams down the left outlane again.
I hear you on nuetrino. I'd like to see it come back and have another incentive added after L3. Or make the training a bit easier like have a ball saver for L2 and 3 (it is supposed to be 'training' after all). I think training is under powered as it it. But I love it so much I'm a sucker for it. ...and when you do have a good game it does pay off. I've been playing mikey lately, get l2, then work the April hurry ups through mb's. I've gotten about 5mil on some April cash outs.
I don't have an IC and I don't see the benefit at the moment, imo. My main barcade I frequent has a godzilla, rush and LZ with it and I hardly ever log in. I do like the idea of keeping track of your progress over time (in general, not the leveling up in tmnt) but I still have never logged in to check it. Anyways, just me. I get the frustration around the leveling up holds. The whole idea seems a bit half baked. But it sound like it might've been an afterthought as Dwight said in an interview just after release that there was no plans for IC on turtles. Hopefully him or one of the team is working on tweaking it.

Please report it like every time. The only way this is going to get fixed is by constant nagging.
...but, I found that it happens less the more you play it and more likely to happen after you update. It's worth trying a new SD card though. It's not logical why it would help when it keeps happening at a specific time in the code, but it does seem to help a lot of people for some reason.
New SD card + time is what I'd suggest. (And reporting, ABR ...always be reporting.

Oh man, thanks. So many! Can't wait to try them, I'm currently moding and cleaning mine, but when I'm done I'll try them out.

....

Speaking of having my game pulled apart, as I started to install the mezel mods technodrone I think I may have stumbled on what might be one of the problems of the pizza parlor rattle out/bricks:
20220607_121512 (resized).jpg
I think one of these two rail guides (if that's the correct term) is the culprit. The rail going up leads to a lip of the 2nd curved rail; if it was the reverse it'd be fine (i think). I was able to move the plastic off to the side with only having to take the center ramp off. Took some time, but this always bugs me so I decided to just go at it. Not sure what I'll do. I'm going to either move the rails a few mil or try increasing the curve with some vice grips. I'll report back to let you guys know if it was worth it.
J

That's a good theory. If that's the case maybe they can reduce some of the load (somewhere) when you hit the lit ramp (...?) It's got to be tricky though since it's so inconsistent. It's funny how stern replaced a cpu board for someone here earlier on. I don't think it is the board itself though since the same board is used for so many other games.

Interesting. You would think stern would have some diagnostic ability to catch this. ...but let's not get back into sterns QC. ...actually let's, because I've got a got a few more picks from the parlor rails:
20220607_140243 (resized).jpg
20220607_140512 (resized).jpg
This screams of crappy QC. I bet this drives guys like Borg nuts. You spend tons of time play testing and crap like this shows up on ...well it sounds like the majority of machines. It's so obvious too once the plastics are off. Can't wait to try a game after I fix this. It's going to make more of a difference on the enjoyment of this game than any mod.

Yeah, I bet. I guess I should've mentioned I have a pro.
Fixed:
20220607_144532 (resized).jpg
20220607_144459 (resized).jpg
I'd say about 50 steps to get to this. And this is without actually taking most of the plastics off, just shifting the 2 around it.
Still have some other things to do, I'll get back with a review of how if the parlor shoots better. I'm also cleaning and waxing so I'll give a review after I can actually see the ball fly around instead of just a blur.

Oh yeah, I totally get that in manufacturing the rail itself might not have been the problem. Although IF the bolt holes (technical term ) were set up to be drilled in the right place, the minimum bend tolerance should've been aligned strait with the lower guide. If it was bent in, it would be less of an issue for the shot ...I'd have to guess.
But then, separately, someone should've been looking at this on the line. It could've been fixed on the line in less than a minute if the tools and knowhow is there. No hyperbole, now that I've done it once it would take me less than a minute to fix. ...not counting the half hour removing everything to get to it of course.
I get though that it's not as simple as it sounds. Who knows how many other issues they may have had and fixed on the production floor as they went. I believe they were having staffing issues as early as when tmnt was on the line too. But it just really sucks as it's such a good game and making an important shot unreliable.

....

I've since played a couple games. There's still a bit of rattling but I feel like there were less harsh rejects. But I also installed a bunch of mods and a shaker motor so I was a bit distracted. Man, that shaker motor at NPMB!! And Holy crap this game is FAST after a clean and wax. I had a ball fly off the right habit trail right over the inlane to the area the outlane leads to (whatever that's called). I was watching it even and I have no idea where it jumped off, it was a total blur.

Nice job, looks great!

...

Just put up a mean score on mine (sans IC). Raph, L3, attempted L4 but couldn't hit center ramp :/ , had another chance but went for final battle instead. Got past first challenge on it. What a rush! Love this game. I play it like as if it was a strategy game I use to be addicted to and keep playing 'one more turn' until the light comes up. I guess it's fortunate that pinball machines are loud enough that I couldn't get away with that.

20220616_114843 (resized).jpg
20220616_115221 (resized).jpg

Edit:
I forgot to mention I found another option for "de-borg-ing" the left outlane (yes, I caved):
20220616_205225 (resized).jpg
I added a 1/2" white rubber under the standard black one on the star post. I didn't know the effect it would have on the lair release, but it actually helps it too. It comes out slower and more controlled but still has a bit of randomness. The left outline is still a B but much more fair. I've even had a couple successful shimmy outs.

Thanks. If it makes you feel any better I just put up a couple of sub-2mils.

It's a programmable memory card that holds the games program. It's at the top right of the cpu board. It clicks in and out. I'm sure there's a step by step out there. It's worth a try. I haven't had it happen in ages, though I have had the video go blank a few times. I did get the tpmb bug a couple times right after I updated to 1.51. Report it if you want them to fix it. Or at want them to try, it seems to be a tricky and inconsistent one. I've noticed that they don't have any shaker effects for it yet either which makes me wonder if they know it's a power drain issue.

Sullivan updated Ghostbusters years after it was even out of production, so I wouldn't give up hope. I think he realizes how good of a game this is too and would push to polish it a bit.
Guardians is rumored to get one last run this year and with a new tmnt movie coming out next year I could see stern trying to capitalize. I'm hoping a clean up of the code before then too, though really, I think having animators work on what looks like unfinished product might have a bigger impact on sales.* Also I bet we see tmnt in some big tournaments this next year too. This game in a tournament setting would get people interested in it again. It's so amazing watching people get big shots in this game like completing training. On my big game I got a 15mil foot123 shot. Felt amazing.

* is it just me or does some of the animation look as good as anything stern has done (and just really beautiful animation and art) but then plenty of it looks half-baked. I have a feeling the animators didn't manage their time well. I bet they got all excited do some episodes and graphics then were told to hurry up and get it out the door. Just that some episodes have the characters lips moving and some don't is telling to me.

I feel ya, my pinball brother. All I can say is listen to splinter. ...except when he says you're not fast enough, then he's just being a troll.

I wish I took notice. I'm pretty sure I had the 3x pf multiplier going so I'd have to guess around 5mil. Which is crazy. I did have some epic mb's, I'm guessing that's were a lot of the orbit shots came from.
...
Separately, I finally got a pizza party going in Team Up today. I've been so close so many times but that lair shot kills me when it's the only shot to make. I feel the "rescue any" perk (from I think it's called 'I need a body' episode) is a must. It feels the perks are a bit lopsided. For instance the Slash episode is so tough (or maybe it's just got into my head) but the perks is something that is useless 90% of the time. The 2 krang epps seem to be the most useful. So are the epps that spots a bad guy from other shots.
...but Dwight does seem to have some 'wammies' in the game. Things that you try to avoid, so maybe Slash is one of them. Other wammies I've noticed is the anchovies ((very low value) humour maybe?) and the marshmallows ('unlimited jackpots'?) in NPMB.
Anyways, I've never been good at watching and strategizing modes, but I'm starting to get there on tmnt.
...
Question for you guys, is there anyway to selectively delete a high score? I've been trying to get my wife into the game and I think she's warming up to Don. Unfortunately a friend put up a 50mil score on it (I think via co-op mode). I'd like to clear it so she could possibly get on the board but I don't want to erase my big one. :/ I had a look through the settings and didn't see any obvious option to do this.

I know what you mean. If it crashes during a big game it would not be good for it's rep.
I haven't had the crash in ages now. I feel like if you had a game that's been played a lot (and hasn't been freshly updated) it *might* be OK.
But you would hope this would put presure on stern to invest some time into fixing the bug. Fix the crash bug, put in tournaments, watch money come in. ...but they have so many other games in demand maybe it's low priority. :/

I don't get the Armstrong reference but I do get why you might want to get rid of a sketchy association.

The van is attached with 2 screws from under the large plastic. You have to remove one other smaller plastic on the right to remove it though. Fortunately you don't have to take off any ramps. Mine's a pro but I'm not the first owner and the van was turned to face the player. The back plastic over the ramp was removed already so I'm not sure but you might have to remove it first.
GL

Ahh, lol, well there's 2 screws instead so I'd say there's a different dad joke in there.

I have the ball save on too but I don't get any outlane drains after I did this:
20220616_205223 (resized).jpg
I added a 1/2" white rubber on the star post under the black rubber. I did it to de-borg the outlane, which I find it does help just enough (it's still the dangerous side but also I can save it once in a while now), but it also ended up slowing the lair exit down a bit too which I ended up liking. It still is a bit random where it goes, but it's never gone down the outlane or middle for me since I did it.
I did it out of curiosity but I'm leaving it on.
Really, I could turn off the ball save now but I like being able to get one fail shot off too.

No fix yet. Report it if you want to help get it fixed though:
[email protected]

I personally haven't had it crash for ages now. Most suggest trying a new (brand name) sd card and image. It still might happen a few times after a fresh update but many of us find it happens very infrequently the more it's played.

Edit: I guess I jinxed myself. Had it happen today. :/ often it's when you hit a specific shot like the right ramp, but this time not. <shrug>

I had this happen once, though it wouldn't boot back up at all. It ended up that the sd card had half 'un-clicked' (technical term ) itself out.

Haven't had a boot up problem since.

Hmm, interesting. Have you had similar lockups on other spike2's? I wonder if anyone has used a separate (off board) led replacement and if they've had any resets.
Though as much as I want to blame a power surge or over heating, that the full reset only happens during tpmb makes me keep going back to the code. If it was a power issue you think a 6 ball npmb would crash once in a while. But, to counter point my own opinion, I find it interesting that there's no shaker motor use at the beginning of the tpmb either, which makes me think that they are avoiding add any more power to it. ...but then, also, they still have rumbles for jackpots, so who knows. <shrug> . Whatever it is, I really hate its an issue still. It's such a great game yet it's such a sticking point and focus for so many people still.

I've come around on the scoring, not that it can always use some tweaks, but I think tmnt will be a great tournament game. If anything it's less 'point salad-y' than most game. You make your shots, you get the points. The only exception is octopus on npmb but even then you can have a bad mb and even with a stacked pizza I'd say I can have more lucrative tpmb. I definitely wouldn't call it 'broken'. I've also had big npmb with lots of pepperoni. The anchovies and marshmallows seem to be 'wammies', but the risk/reward to moving them is hardly ever worth it. Even to an octopus.
I do have gripes though, like the leveling up is a little too risk/reward, at least for most skill levels. But the only time I've really blown up this game (200mil) I've had L3 raph. In tournament I'd probably only go for leveling up with mikey for the April hurry up multiplier. ...if I picked mikey. Even Leo I probably wouldn't bother leveling up and use his l1 perk just to get closer to the 2x. I'd also like to see some more points in teamup. I think that could easily be fixed with some bigger perks from completed episodes though. And also, just playing though team up gets you to more mb's, so maybe it's ok already.
The hurry ups can be huge, but I avoid them all for a while. Even weapon I'll only set up for a mb and never go for it on its own. But I find most hurryups in pinball in general are a sucker shot. ...it's the game trying to trick you out of you dollar.
But overall I'd say this game is well balenced where all shots and modes *can* be lucrative and many of the things that arent immediately can lead to something that is. Even if you want to just go mb and multipliers all day you have to play through the eppisodes to get the chance for more. Just my opinion though, I'd really like to see this in big tournaments to see what the great players go for. If it's all the same strategy, yeah, this game might be one dimentional for scoring strategy. But I bet you would see some different strategies. The good players would definitely try to get to raph L3 I bet.
And ever since I've realized the scoring amount is similar to lotr the low scoring doesn't bother me either.

Well you peaked my interest in these npmb sjps. I've been playing some games where I've been focusing on it and hardly ever get the sjp myself. It's a tough progression in my opinion. Especially on one of the fastest games out there. So you first need 6 blue shots, then the krang loop, than the infamously tough lair shot. (I love the krang loop in mb. Controlled staging and a left handed shot. Reminds me of whirlwind and high speed jackpots but left handed.) The way I see it is that's 6 shots then 2 really tough shots. I'd say you better have something lucrative there. A sjp should be big. Oh, and the 2x is another 5 to 9 shots too on top of that and maybe a few more to keep it going. That's a lot of shots and a lot of skill to get. I'm fine with it being big. If you can get multiples of those a game you deserve to win. Plus 8 mil is only a 3rd or quarter way to a replay. I don't think this is an all or nothing, imo.
That said though, I agree with you on the krang combo and weapon being low. I only go for them if I'm getting close to cowabunga, which I've been close to (yet so far away). I would worry about raising the krang one though since it's always on. I wouldn't want it to turn into a strategy like loops on Maiden or shadow (though not too bad of company to be in). Weapon though could use some re-thinking. I'm still hoping Dwight puts in a super skill shot. It would be interesting if the super skill shot was to hit you turtle skill shot before the top lanes or pops (on pro). Then have some kind of super weapon score if you can complete it. Though this might change the balance of the turtle shots, especially since mikey and raph are already a bit stronger than leo and don, and there shots are easer. But yeah, right now I avoid both unless those shots are lit for something else as well, then it's just gravy.
Foot 123 can be lit again after completing it as a mystery pops award. ...which brings me to something I think is unbalanced in the game: the pop bumpers. It's not as unbalanced as the last Ghostbusters code, imo, but sometimes you can get crazy awards in the pops. I once had a lite extra ball, lite battle again, and lite tpmb from my ball staying in the pops. That's worth like 10 shots and an extra ball! Crazy! I think this along with the top lane multiplier makes it pretty powerful--although, I personally don't drain on purpose to get more, I find the ball save to be more important to find my shots or get some shots on April or lair mono-targets.
Anyways, I have to thank you for voicing you opinion on the npmb. I'm starting to enjoy it again. I also think I may have found another bug. :/ The fudge might not be working. Since the sjp is so lucrative you'd think the fudge would be really powerful. So I played a mb with 2 fudge. If it is indeed +1 foot kill that means I should've got to mondo in 2 shots, no? Well, I swear I hit like 4 or 5 blue shots without seeing mondo lit. ...then I drained to one ball of course. I'm going to try this as a strategy some more. If the sjp is really that lucrative, the fudge and pineapple might be worth more than gummies, octopus, or pepperoni.

Ahhh, damn, I get it now. Yeah, the npmb is totally over powered, like twice the amount it should be. Especially since some toppings get you closer to it. It needs to be turfed or like everything else needs to go up. Some more than others.
Again, I have to thank you for the discussion and thoughts on this. It's helping me see the depth of this game in other ways.
Another thing that Dwight & team could do is add another 6 foot shots between mondo and grande. Or make the grande a hurry up once lit. But even then it still might be imbalanced. You'd still have to turf the pepper too (jeez, I had no idea). Lowering the score to what the tpmb is makes sence.
Tpmb sjp are a bit easier to get too so I don't mind them being lower.

It's a good idea about the pops being turned off during mb's. They are during some things like when tumb is lit I think. But I'd really miss the add a ball mystery if it did. Maybe just in competition mode they should be turned off. Or maybe reduce some of the more powerful awards like lite eb.

Totally (in mikey voice) agree with you on the training. Sometimes it feels so easy but other times the one shot feels like an impossible mountain. I'd like it to be worth a bit more points but also to have something big lit after each one. I think l3 and 4 should both lite nuetrino mb and the l2 training be have a super long ball save, or maybe just until you get the right ramp maybe.

Agreed about the tumb. That hurry up shot is a bitch. It makes the 'rescue any' overpowered. Even if the timer was x1.5 longer I bet I could miss it. But although the shot immediately isn't worth much it does unlock victory laps and gives you a cowabunga prereq. That's pretty powerful. Definitely worth going for since you're safe(r) in the mb.

Yeah, me too :/ . But the eppisodes unlock things too, so that's worth something as well. Especially when they unlock more mb's. I'm glad you can't just wait out the eppisodes but some modes don't feel worth going for. Like when I'm in Slash I keep telling myself to just stay to safe shots (which there are few) but always seem to get suckered into trying to complete it.

Me too brother. Even with knowing about the overpowered sjp I can end up with an under 1 mil mb.
But like a lot of the rest of this game, it's inspiring me to play better and learn new skills. Learning how to control mb can be really fun and satisfying.

"I've played this machine as much or more than any other machine"
Sorry dude, was just creeping on you profile (don't worry, just the one here )--I noticed you don't even have tmnt in your top 10. How is it that you play this game more than anything else but rate it harshly? I don't mean to be too critical, I was just surprised to see this.

The IC level memory is just half baked and kind of dumb. Essentially buying a higher score and I won't get one becauseof that. There's lots of potential with it though. It's a clever idea to save progress like in a video game. But just not this way.

As for L4, I've had some huge games (a couple over 100mil) and average around 25 mil per game overall but I still haven't got to nuetrino since the last code. ... I'm fine with it being there, I just think a neutrino lite mb should come after L3.

Re: epp selection
I'm fine with the eppisode selection as it is. It's a challenge, but if you take that away, what are those 2 targets for then? I doubt they'll completely revamp the rules for that.

Re:topping selection
This too. I like this way. It's a great risk reward. It's definitely swear worthy when you have the perfect topping and you hit the pizza target on the way to the parlor. Love it!
Lately I've been finding the small target easy to change. On my game it's a quick(ish) flip from the left flipper when rolling. It's a bit risky but not too bad. I've been going for it since I've realized how over powered some toppings are.

I just thought of another change to neutrino mb that could work: make it L3 unlocked for just Donatello. Poor Don might get some love if change happened.

Agreed! The wizard mode is so good. The animations are really well done too. So satisfying. Can't wait to try out cowabunga one day. I've been 2 qualifiers away. So close yet so far.

I agree. So good. If I have to pick between this an ic I'll pick the April mod every day. (Making this comparison because of the possibility of the IC blocking mods. I'd put about 3 or 6 other mods for pro over the ic imo).

Is this for sure? Like they announced that they are going back on the line? If so let's hope a big update is coming. It's already a top 10 game for me with the bugs.

I doubt it's fixed in this build. If the node boards were the problem I'm sure the reset would be more random. Plus if it actually fixed it, they would have it in flame font . They must be so sick of us emailing about it. Keep it up guys, don't let them forget until it's fixed. No way should a $6-10k piece of electronics just randomly reset.

Yikes, that's early. I hope this doesn't mean the death of code updates for this guy.
...
I'm really surprised their not waiting for the movie to come out. Just seems like a ton of free advertising. This is really bumming me out though. Who knows about an update on score balancing, but this doesn't bode well for the bugs being fixed. I feel like they would've been fixed already at this point and why would stern pay coders to fix it if they're already done getting money from it. :/ hope I'm wrong.

Knapp is reporting conficting info on if stern is retiring tmnt:
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/last-call-for-stern-pinball-s-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles

Common Stern, roll up those sleeves, just re-code tpmb and fix the smaller bugs. Wait for the movie ads to do the heavy, make a last call and make some more money of what could be one of your best games ever.

Yeah, I misread, they were talking about that star wars *might* be retired too. Looks like tmnt is getting retired for sure this fall.

My number 1,2, and 3 problem with this game is the reset bug. It hardly ever happens, and for me playing at home it doesn't bother me much but just that it is unlikely to be used in an important
tournaments unless it's fixed, really bugs me; it really bums me out because people won't get a real chance to appreciate how deceptively clever the code is. Especially since the layout and speed is perfect for a tough tournament game.
I don't think the scoring is too unbalanced either. I have 50mil games with good MB's and separately, 50mil games through eppisode grinding and poor np and tp mb's. I find I'm just as likely to have a poor game by spending extra time getting better toppings combinations. (Speaking of, I've started picking my turtle based on what toppings I start with now, which has increased the playability of this game for me). The things that score low like hurry ups can often be on top of existing shots, so to me it's not JUST the score it gives you. Things like the grande jackpots are a dead end (and not too easy to get) so I'm fine with having a score peak with them.
That said, it could use a few of the smaller bugs ironed out still and some score balancing (and add npp to l3 and l4) would be nice, but the reset bug, ...yikes! At a 1.5+ code and still have a bug that resets the whole game? That's just irresponsible as a business imo. If the whole tpmb code has to be rewritten, so be it, such up the cost stern, you owe it to the people you sold your expensive toys to. This game has more serious bugs than BSD, and that game, for how much it's loved and seems like the perfect tournament game in many ways, is often avoided for big tournament games. And it doesn't have anything as bad as a full reset bug.

....
Separately, talking about the depth of the game, I think a lot of people don't take the extra work of having 4 players and the increadibe co-op mode into the equation. Dwight has really outdone himself in that respect. It's a really great game. Definitely a party favorite too. Love this game.

Yeah, I love the modes. Some are great/easy for mb, some are just fun. Slash is great presentation,
and krang is super fun. My only gripe is I think the bonuses on tumb is low. ...except the I want a body bug which is crazy powerful (although still not that valuable overall).

You can potentially get unlimited points in mb but it doesn't mean the average player will. I'm above average and can't get grandes every game. Plus eppisodes lead to more mb's. I'm not saying it's perfectly balanced, and it definitely could use some tweeking, but it's not as unbalanced as many seem to think it is. It's no spinners, ramps or loops all day. Even if you get Chilli peppers it's only good for one and you have to go though the sequence again, preferably with the 2x lit and continue to hit it.

I believe instead of 'rescue any' it always just rescues all (when you hit a turtle shot after (I want to say 2) weapons) and goes strait into pizza party. I believe it's meant to just rescue the turtle you hit then go through the foot soldiers again to rescue one of the next 3 turtles.

Nah, no scoring bonus other than pizza party which doesn't seem that lucrative. ...but safe-ish due to mb. I mean body could be just fixed by saying 'save ALL turtles'. ...I mostly go for it for the cowabumga award ...which I still haven't gotten to and want to get it on playing only 1 player.
Wrath of krang seems fine to me. One blue shot hits all, then you have to hit the weapon. Wrath + body = cowabunga achievement. A bit lopsided. I think other perks should be worth more. Like if Slash was worth double it would be worth hit perk (without Wrath of krang) and hit each of the foot soldiers. Same with the shredder 2x for whatever epp that is from. ...but as I know you know, this game could use a ton of little tweaks to polish it. Non of it kills the game, it just would be interesting to see what Dwight could do with it if he is allowed more time.
Training is killing me right now. I just avoid it. To be 4 shots closer to 2x is more lucrative than what the training gives you imo. Could be an easy fix like add 15% of score and add npp to level 3 and 4.
I think he may be doing training mode like in a story way like foot 123 (foot soldiers get in your way, either kill them or wait it out); so when you hit training by accident you are like 'ah, damn, training, ok, I guess I'll do it'.

I can see it being a real balancing act between theme integration within the code and scoring. I mean, a lot of new stern seem to just avoid theme integration in code or just use it superficially. Dwight has really outdone himself in this respect in tmnt imo. With tweaks and bug cleanup (especially the RESET bug!), this game really could be a modern gem. In a complete different way than godzilla already is, but a gem none the less.

I use to be able to backhand my shots to the lair (almost) that easy until I switched them to perfect play, now I'm even having trouble backhanding with 2 balls traped on the left which used to be easy.
What flipper rubbers are you using?

I'm having some intermittent problems with a coil firing too on my Pro. One of the 2 back posts. It's always held on too long periodically (from the right ramp) but I thought that was a software issue. But now I've had some random firing. It even fired off once with the game in attract. I did a switch test and didn't find anything. Need to wait for it to happen again to see if I can diagnose. Feels like it's a switch issue. Maybe just something adjusted too tight ...but I'm a newbie with new sterns.

Post. Not 100% if it's the bottom vertical one or the horizontal ramp post.

Strange huh, especially it happening in attract mode. I have no idea what would cause that.

I'm on the last code still, not the latest, not sure I'd that matters but there was a node boards update. I just love the April mod so much I can't bare to think of going back to stiff barbie April.

Thanks for replying. I love how the green bands look on tmnt but I'll have to change them back to see how they feel.

There isn't a tournament standard from what I know. There might be a rule about keeping the same type on if one breaks during the tournament. I can't remember if Pinburgh was consistent with their flipper band type.

Holy cow! There's different types of titan bands now?

Are 'stern stock rubbers' different than just any standard black flipper rubbers from say marcos or pinball life?

It's a fantastic game with a mediocre reputation. I'd say a deal for anyone out there wanting a new stern. Sort of like bksor was a couple years ago. (And probably LZ right now too).
Tmnt and GB will definitely make you a better player (..if you work on your ball control and shot making). I've got a tmnt and bsd , they are definitely making me a better player. The guy I got tmnt from couldn't Crack 25mil. My HS plateau 'd for a while around 50mil but now is 190mil plus a few 100+'s (with lair ball save, outlane save switching, and a little de-borging, to be transparent) . I'm not getting much better hs's in bsd but can stack mb's much more often than I could before.

I was just at a multi-tournament weekend and I feel I have to defend tmnt everytime I talk about it. So annoying. . There's not to many of them on location in the whole province of Ontario (here in 'canukastan'). So it's hard to show anyone the merits of it. I think the simplicity of the ruleset in the multiplier department is a drawback for a lot of the hard-core tournament players. They love talking about obscure multipliers on the heavy ruleset games. It's hard to sell someone of the 'feel' of the game (both flow and ruleset theme integration and subtle originality) (...I also fell like I have to sell people of LZ similarly. Especially the code theme integration).
...
Oh, so at the tournament I found out that some other stern pins are having reset problems too. I know Beatles was reseting at the tournament (not sure if it's always at the same time; it was left in the tournament but the TD said one more reset and it would've been taken out for the rest of it; for me it reset at the end of ball 3 right after it counted bonus), and I've heard Mando does too (and Mando's rep seems to be falling a bit now too, not sure if it's related). ...anyways, seems like it might be a larger stern problem which gives me a glimmer of hope that it's being looked into still.

I know good players who have a low opinion of tmnt. One who even was defending Rush when he bought one by saying "play better" as a response to having harse drains (like sdtm from the scoop and off the auto-plunge). I replied to him ' I was going to say that to you about turtles"

As for the resets, on your other games, was it ever repeated on the same mode/mb like tmnt? Or more random? ...I mean on tmnt it's random within the tpmb, but I've never had it happen outside of it.
J

Well, yeah, that's the simplified strategy but this ain't no system 11 game. What would they do in-between attempting the super jackpots? How would they spend there ball save (if not turned off) time? What turtle would they go for? Would they risk focusing on battle again? Would they bother playing eppisodes or try to time them out? Would they try for some eppisodes and not others and why; because they are easier than others or for tumb perks? If they saw ice cream, chillies or octopus would they change it? And which and how many ahead? One, three spots? If they didn't have a gummy bear locked it would they try to lock one it at the last or just take anchovies? At what point, if ever would they go for cowabunga? In tpmb would they focus on add a ball shots for emergencies or just jackpots, and which JP's? Just crazy loops for mondos? Maybe play the hell out of tpmb to try to crash it if others had crazy scores? Or avoid it if you're way ahead? ...hmm
My God, I could keep going. The fact is I'm not close to the Elwins, Davidson's or Stone's of the world. Or even Becker, Gagnon or Birnbaum's. Imagine if Esher had a tmnt at home and played it in a big tournament. I bet it would change everyone's strategy on it, whatever he would find to exploit the game. Of course they are going to go for the super jackpots, that's a no brainer, but how?
...
Makes me wonder too about the settings. I was just at a tournament where everything was on hard setting and no ball saves. I wonder if there's a hard setting for npmb and how much it would change someone's strategy. I had Rush in a semi-finals and the setting were so had barely anyone got a MB. So players focused on modes. ...of course you can't quite do that on tmnt. ...but anyways, my point is that strategies evolve in big tournaments and change how people see the games.

Yeah, I hear ya on the love/hate. I've gone through that phase and once in a while I'll just give the game the finger and shut it off.
As for the gogogo, I'd say try to trap up and take a breath. Especially on the right flipper, the right ramp is safer to backhand than forehand. The left ramp it backhandable too, harder but maybe the most satisfying backhand in pinball, imo.
Forget about the hurry ups. They are a trick. Listen to your inner master splinter : 'Patience and focus my student'. I'd only go for a hurry up if it's also lit for another shot. Like eppisode light and April HU. It is fun to get the hurry ups, but hardly worth it on their own.

I hear you about Cowabunga too but I don't really think it's intended for a single player game (unless your top 500 maybe). I think it's more there for co-op mode. I've played with 3 friend, 2 who are quite good and we haven't gotten to the wizard mode yet. It can be a challenge to have more than one person have a really good game even. Once they get the feel for the game I'm sure we can do WM easy(ish) but cowabunga would be the big challenge. I absolutely LOVE that about the co-op. You can coach and strategizing with each other. ...even strategize based on your strength and weaknesses. Every time I contemplate trading tmnt (there's so many great games out there right now), I think about the co-op mode and how great it is when I have friends who know pinball over. ...even if it's rare.

I change toppings from the left flipper to the middle sometimes. But your right, in tournament I might not even try. ...but maybe for a chilli.
I'm going to take your challenge on the 16m. I'm going to try a mb jp strategy and try to how many shots it is--then try a eppisode/hurry ups strategy (use the mbs only for eppisode completion (then just flail or go for multipliers and hurry up if I didn't drain after the epp is over). I bet it'll be closer than you think for a similar amount of shots (non-mb shots (I don't think I could keep track of that)). You opened my eyes to how lucrative the np grande jps are, and I could definitely be wrong, but I bet there's some pretty big points in the bonuses from eppisodes and bonus multipliers. I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm genuinely interested in the ballance of this game. I'll get back to you after I get a chance to play a bit more and try separate strategies.

Yeah, lucky you! Do you by any chance keep your tmnt in a very cool room? Just curious because I haven't had mine reset in quite a while and I have a window AC unit right beside it. I'm wondering if overheating plays a part. I'm probably just making random stabs in the dark here through.

I don't have an IC for my turtles. I like raw dogin' it. (Plus in a tournament there's no way you could use your IC account.)

Both the best news I've heard all day and the most illusive. I hope this mean you'll be given some time to work on it. I know you probably either can't say or don't know when or if they'll give you time. If you can eventually get rid of the bugs and do some polishing on it I could see it eventually be considered one of your best. I'll say too, with the risk of sounding like a fanboy, it's quite the balancing act you did with this game. Especially considering the 4 characters, co-op mode and single player are all the same game. Well done (so far ).
Since Stern has allowed programmers to work on games years after the game was retired, I'll hold out hope.

Yeah, it would be an easy fix. Like on EM's when they started adding a fake real with a "0" sticker on it.
....but ever since I realized LOTR is actually similar scoring value it doesn't bother me anymore. I was out of the loop when lotr came out but I bet there was a similar frustration then. But look at it now, a top 15game, fanatic (although long) tournament game and a favorite of people who like to play for progress.

Have you checked the switch diagnostics? Maybe something is physically holding the switch shut. I'm new to new sterns, but I know there's a diagnostics for the node boards too. Maybe worth a try.

I finally got a chance to try out my mb vs episodes experiment. I tried it first just playing and counting my shots but was pretty messy. For instance I played Don (for the MB strategy (using TPMB mostly to start 2x)) and had a horrible game where in 42 shots I got only a bit over 1mil. Then trying again in 100ish shots I got around 7mil. Not great, but also way too sloppy to think of it as anything close to scientific.
So, I took the glass off and tried again. Using Don again in 35 shots I was able to get a whopping 47.5mil! (Holy crap the mondo jackpots after getting a grande and getting I lit again are HUGE! (Like 3, 6for double, and 9 for triple! (With 2x)) ...and the Grande increased to 10mil the second time around. I did not complete one episode so after this I considered myself in MB jail.
Then using Raph I used 35 shots to cleanly go through the episodes. I only got 12.8mil but this lit TUMB. I also got the 2 multiballs but only used them to complete the episodes and then drain back to one ball. I think i also used 9 shots to lite 2x in tpmb.
So:
35 shots MB : 47.5mil (then stuck in MB jail)
35 shots Ep's: 12.8mil (then open to Tumb and re-lite MB's)
Even though these numbers are so different you also have to take the difficulty of the shots into account. The 47mil in 35 would mean you can hit the krang orbit and lair shot at will.
Also, I have recently had a crappy MB Game but a great episodes game. In this game I got a 35mil bonus for getting to Final Battle!! I had a horrible FB so my FB total wasn't much more than the 35mil. I believe my end score was around 80-90mil. So 70mil of those points were from the episodes.

All of these scores are with no leveling up (and I don't have an IC). I do have EBs liberal with a special counting as one.

So, I still don't know. The NPMB does seem a bit overpowered WHEN you hit the shots, but I'm not convinced it's the only Tournament strategy. If for instance you have crappy MB's, you could definitely still catch someone by playing the episodes. And of course you would get to more MB's this way where you'd get more chances at them. Someone getting 20-30mil in the first 2 MB's but not getting through episodes (and draining before tumb) is definitely catchable even if you crap out on the mbs and grind through. Obviously you can do both, and ideally you would, but I dont think it's MB or nothing in this game). But a good npmb is pretty ideal. If you can cradle and hit the orbits you're golden in this game. I'd agree it's overpowered but I don't think it's as unbalanced as it seems. Unfortunately for everyone who wants the scores to go higher it might be way easier just to lower the npmb jp's all by 20-40%.
...
Since I had the glass off I decided to mess around with the pizza toppings seeing how things work a bit better. So, I've had this idea that pepperoni and marshmallows could work together somehow and be an alternative strategy to mondo/grandes. First off, it seems that pepperoni doesn't add the advertised +250k to each jackpot. It's more like +25k. Very different! And I don't know if this was a Nerfing that the didn't update the info for. The marshmallows I have no idea what they do. I was hoping it had something to do with the pizza slice JPs. For instance, it doesn't always say 'jackpot' when you hit a slice. So I want sure every pizza slice counted as one. But it looks like it does give you a 'jackpot' (only 70k(+pepperoni)(I dont think i had the 2x going) each hit. So I still am stumped by the marshmallows. If there is a limit to any of the jackpots, I have no idea where it is.
I was also curious about the peanut butter since it could potentially be stacked with the pepperoni (if it had actually been lucrative). So it just gives you extra slices but you only get immediate score for 1 hit (but you then get extra bonus since pizza slices are part of your bonus). But this is a good way to get closer to an EB for sure. Especially with multiple PB's.
Anyways, this all could've been an interesting alternative way to stack ingredients, but alas it's just a disappointment. If the pepperoni was actually +250k, stack 3 of those and your making 750k+ (or 1.5mil per hit pizza slice hit with 2X!) Imagine this plus some kind of bonus the marshmallows could give you stacked. Then throw a PB in there to round off your order. Pizza targets all day (still pretty risky too). ...Anyways, I'm glad I tried it out. I know now that the Pepperoni isn't worth much more than the anchovies.

Edit: looking into pinwiki rules I realized that the Pepperoni is meant to add to the mondo jackpot value. "Pepperoni: Jackpots + 250K
(Mondo Jackpot is worth an additional 250K points)"
I have no idea why or how the pizza slice jackpots have different scores.

Thanks! It was a slog, but I learned a lot with the glass off.
Oh yeah, you're right about me oversimplifing the shots (and I did that personally because the post was getting out of control, like this one probably will too ). But at the same time if you followed the only youtube tournament strategy you definitely would end up in MB jail. So if you don't blow it up on npmb you're screwed. Raph is a strategy for sure, but no one if more efficient at getting some practice on mb and hopefully getting 2x going before npmb. Leo is more efficient than raph too because you get 4 shots on lair and only 4 shots away from 2x(vs Raphs 2 ramp shots to start). But then all those shots to light tpmb if you want the practice. But it might also depend on what shots you feel most comfortable with.
...so many options, that's why I love this game. It's so close to being a gem.
And I definitely hear you about stacking. I'm starting to appreciate the ability not to just stack modes and mb (and decide on what you should be focusing on (and try not to get easily distracted by shiney keys jingling)(squirrel!)), but stacking of shots. For instance if you get April HU in a mb, avoid it unless it's stacked with a shot you want, instead, it'll wait until the mb is over, it's often still lit and you can get the April AND an episode qualifying shot that you needed anyways.
I think it's nuts to only go for NPMB, it doesn't mean you wouldn't beat someone doing it (and you'd probably beat someone who doesn't know the rules), but this game has TONS of points if you know how to stack shots and be efficient.
Separately with mode selection you're totally right about some being easier. There's also some that I focus on too (the Krang eps) because I value the perks in TUMB. But if I go into mb I find some are an easy lock. The mousers and the pizza dimentional one are both perfect for going jnto a mb. You can get them without thinking about it. On the other hand I find if you start Slash, body, or Ray ep., you're unlikely to complete them unless you do focus at least a bit. When I first realized this I tried to switch eppisodes but found it a fools game. I'm sometimes suckered into it though.
...
All that said, I'm with a lot of you guys, I'm more interested in progress at home. If I don't get anything about 40mil I hardly even look at the score. ...well, unless it's under a mil, then I take notice as well.

I have a pro so I'm not much help directly but if you go to page one of this forum there should be a shortcut to pages where people were talking about it. There's many posts too but you'd have to do a lot of digging to find them all.

I had a crash when I had the glass off too. First in ages. I'm still last code (1.51?). Did you have any balls in the parlor shot? I often find one ball kicks out of there on mine after it resets. Could just be a coincidence.

Oh man, your right. I've just realized the benefit of hitting more mondos before grandes. ...so it doesn't automatically go up after the first grande?

Totally agree. I don't even go for training anymore on purpose. Having the 4 shots carry over for 2x is more powerful and WAY safer. Dwight should think about having npp after l3 and 4. Training on its own right now (without IC) is something to avoid. It's too bad because the animation and light show creates one of my favorite moments in the game.

Those are all great ideas but I doubt Mr. Sullivan will have the time or resources to do so many changes. Really, time would be better spent on debugging imo. Not as fun but more detrimental to the enjoyment of the game overall.
I'm worried about his wording on the "fix what I can". His response and acknowledgment of the bugs are promising but saying "what he can" makes me less enthused. Makes me he's had people looking into the tpmb and they're stumped. But hey, maybe he gets a ringer in there to have a look. Let's hope.
I just changed my flipper bands back to black and am feeling like the lair shot is back easier again from the cradle. (Thanks again @Thunderbird: loving going back to rubber, the perfect plays suck on tmnt, look great, but they suck). I'll probably start going back to having games where I focus on training. Just to see for the challenge. I still think it's a poor choice if you're going for score alone.

Is there a difference between what stern uses and any black rubber flipper bands you get from distributors? I got my tmnt used with clear bands installed (guessing silicone), they felt a lot different from the perfect play and I could backhand the lair nice, especially with 2 balls cradled. But I'm liking going back to the black rubber so far. I think these were from pinball life.
I'd like to try the Titan low bounce. I'll get them one day but since I live in Canada some companies are hard and expensive to ship from. They're one of them. I've got bands from them before when I was at Allentown. I have them on my bsd and I'm liking them. No idea if they are considered low bounce.

Yeah, I'm with you. I like pondering how I'd make the rules better too. And I hope you didn't think I was putting your ideas down, they're great ideas. I especially like the mini-wizard-mode-like cowabunga. But, the other thing is Dwight took ideas learned in Munsters and added it to TMNT. He said that he had the time outs on the mono targets because of criticism of Munsters. So who knows, maybe your ideas make it into a future game, which would be pretty cool. Maybe you'll get your own Easter egg. :O
I'm curious about tmnt vs gz too. Gz seems to get more resources but who know, maybe tmnt burned up their resources early and after the initial big sales it dropped off fast. GZ is a crowd pleaser (and imo, pretty awesome), but if you compare the dmd resources, tmnt has way more work involved. gz is a lot of pre-existing clips. But they've done a great job of integrating their own 3d art too (WAY better than stern JP). Its just that tmnt has SO much original animation. They get criticized for the weaknesses (of which there's many), but don't get enough credit for how ambitious it was.
I'm pretty sure tmnt too a reputation hit because of being the first pandemic game. It might've had the same trajectory of RUSH if people kept playing it.
The reputation will come around. Look at BKSOR, people love that now when a year ago you could get them below value. I predict LZ will be similar.
I wonder what Dwight is working on. If it's 007 an update could come sooner than later. If it's the next game, who knows.

I complain about the code but I can never see getting rid of mine. Not for a long time and only for something else I would know I would love. I'm about to sell a game, a BK, I tweaked it and it's playing amazing--I usually play the hell out of a game I know is going but tmnt always calls to me more. I still get a few games of bk in every couple of days, but tmnt becons me every day. You get use to the low scoring just like lotr or any JJ. The reset bug happen so rarely that it's not an issue at home. And the smaller bugs just seem like part of the game right now: for instance marshmallows are a wammy card, and "I need a body" tumb perk is 'rescue all' instead of "rescue any".

I see your problem, so much furniture.
Very professional looking topper, I'm sure any tmnt fan would love it; not just someone with the pin.

Nah man, Dwight is a legend. Elwin can learn still from him and I bet if you ask him he'll admit that himself. Your critisism does come across harsh, mostly because we know he reads this forum, but it's also worth the conversation. Sometimes ya gotta be cruel to be kind.
The way I see it is that Elwin is the new hotness and everyone is gaga over him BUT people seem to give him the benefit of the doubt of any flaws (like harsh drains) and also give him more credit than he's due. For instance, Elwin isn't a programmer. It's like blaming Borg for the bugs in the tmnt code.
Also we have no idea about the politics at stern. Are they gaga over elwin too and give him whatever he wants? (Probably yes, because they know his reputation means people will buy sight unseen). Is Dwight asked to simplify his code to appeal to gamers who like the 90's games more? Maybe, there's definitely a good argument for that and Munsters seems to be proof.
But also, I don't know about you but I like a lot of variety. For instance I was stoked about GZ when the PF had some throwback lower pf elements. I like that about elwin more than the code. I like gz's code too, but I dont think it's that much better than the code concept for tmnt: it's just more polished. It still is a start the mode then stack the mb at the base of the game. I think LZ is a bigger leap in code creativity, especially with theme integration (although this partly goes against my argument because of the possible influence of Rayday .) I'd argue RUSH is a bit more creative with the code too. Not to put down GZ though, it's awesome. I'm using it as an example because it's elwins best game and a great achievement.
But also without big achievements from Richie, Dwight, Lyman, Eddy, etc., Elwin isn't doing what he's doing. And me personally think it would be a huge mistake not to let these legends continue to make games as long as they want to.
But I hope you don't take this as being harsh against your opinion. Like I said, it's a worthy conversation. I personally like the variety and think Dwight it doing some fascinating things like the npmb--i don't think there's another mb in pinball like it. April HU is another one. I can't think of another HU in pinball that is based on the events that's happening; which is incredible use of theme integration since April is reporting.

Yeah, it's pretty fast too, that's why I made this:
20220911_112111 (resized).jpg
Really helps with strategizing the toppings when you're getting use to it as well. 11 toppings is a lot to memorize.

I've never had this problem but I think I've read about it way back in this forum somewhere. I'd re-seat all of the connectors including the ethernet cables, then also unlock and re-lock the sd card (I've had mine pop out part way before myself but it wouldn't boot properly). If not that, try a new (quality) SD card and burn the rom fresh.
Good luck, I bet it's just a connection.

Tp is lit when the ramp will quality for advancement toward tpmb. It's blinking when it's ready. Don will blink to start, everyone else will be solid for (4-6?) shots to lite. It's only off after tpmb, and before it's re-lit by 4, 8 eps. and when something gets in the way like the foot 123 attack or other mbs.

PM me your email addresses, the file is pretty big. If you like and keep them on your machine, you can always buy me a (PayPal) beer if you feel so obliged.

20220912_101054 (resized).jpg
There's actually 2. I'm pretty proud of them, they took me ages. It looks like they have really small font but except for the training perks, the font is around the same size as the original cards.
I'll send them out to you guys later. I just would prefer to do it all at once.
-----
When I was making them a friend said I should ask Dwight what he thought. Especially about the section with how to change the pizza toppings. I was struggling to explain it in few words. My friend actually met him at a board game building workshop in Chicago when he wasn't employed in Pinball (like 15 years ago?). Apparently a really down to earth guy and approachable. My friend after asking if he'd get back into pinball said he got the impression that he thought it's days were over. Thankfully he was wrong. I really think Dwight has brought some euro-style board game knowledge to tmnt. When I was trying to describe how the toppings system works it gave me a real appreciation for it. I guess we're just lucky there isn't a major bug in it too.

Emails sent. LMK, if you didn't get one.

I just used my laser printer with laser printer photo paper. Turned out ok but I know they could be better. If anyone has recommendations for professional printers, in person or online, lmk.

Thanks! Oh wow, what are those larger card holders? They look perfect for these cards.

Holy crap! I thought that said 61 million. ... I was going to post this to gloat, now I'm a bit embarrassed:
20220918_200342 (resized).jpg

Re: My custom TMNT score cards

Emailing everyone separately is more work than I expected. I'm also a bit disappointed at how many people said they'd endorse my alcohol habit and haven't. Or even send a 'thanks' reply for that matter. So change of plans, I'm going to insert a medium res version here. Feel free to print and use it for personal use. If you like it and want a high res. version, you can donate a beer to me via paypal and I'll send it to you (PM me). I'll also keep track of who sent me thanks via paypal (or other trades), and send you any updates to the cards (with say, rule changes) that I do in the future. I may also make a custom premium set if anyone shows interest.

Here's the medium res cards:

TMNT_custom-score-card1-low-res750_System-J (resized).jpg

TMNT_custom-score-card2-low-res750_System-J (resized).jpg

I've obviously appropriated Stern's and TMNT artwork for this and am not taking credit for the logos and images that I've used. But I did spend a ton of time thinking, organizing, and re-designing these cards. I'm pretty pleased the way I was able to organize a lot of information into something manageable to read; breaking it up so you can quickly scan to see what information you want at the time. Anyways, I hope you guys enjoy it.

There's a PDF printable version of these cards now up on my website:
https://systemjpinball.ca/index.php/2023/04/30/legacy-tmnt-score-cards-free/
They are a bit higher resolution than the ones above and are much easier to print.