New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 271489)

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Club(Stern 2020): Cowabunga! It’s Pizza Time!


By Tuxedomask23

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 4,229 posts
  • 382 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 13 minutes ago by mbrave77
  • Topic is favorited by 174 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Which model are you going to purchase”

  • Pro 146 votes
    46%
  • Premium 75 votes
    24%
  • LE 98 votes
    31%

(319 votes)

Topic Gallery

There have been 999 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

image (resized).jpg
A69B9598-1DDA-4153-8203-7234C65B6C72 (resized).jpeg
4BCA350C-D768-4F24-8CF7-F7AB0BB33FD4 (resized).jpeg
9164EE1F-3BEC-43BD-A5D3-290C11DE7B5F (resized).jpeg
AE408ECD-2B95-43F3-B924-16CE1FA2D685 (resized).jpeg
B9CA1146-CEB9-4799-8194-6FD7D3F0647A (resized).jpeg
CFBDF430-204C-40A0-94FE-C513353B417F (resized).jpeg
E37DC225-F1F9-490F-985E-511F68C2786A (resized).jpeg
9171DC8C-9E16-4122-A1BA-D1644BBA0F1F (resized).jpeg
F20DB803-8E22-4BF4-92B7-5AB89AB0C009 (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg
A9B7A194-5921-48E6-8597-A29437C82A52 (resized).jpeg
3BF8A1CD-FA23-48EF-9722-64D055081BEB (resized).jpeg
56089B06-2259-442A-9812-2D158E0490D7 (resized).jpeg
PFzoom (resized).png
20201014_125029 (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic (Show topic index)

There are 4229 posts in this topic. You are on page 77 of 85.
#3801 24 days ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Are those download links for the 1987 TMNT software 1.21 update?

no sorry for the misunderstanding they are the official stern downloads.
When you go on the stern site do the SD-Card download section. You can copy the link and just replace the version number. (maybe in in editor).
This link entered directly entered into a browswer should start the download for old Versions.
They still have the software on the server, but no visible link to it

I just wanted to let you know that downgraded to version 1.21 with the 1987 version and that worked.

#3802 24 days ago
Quoted from cabal:

no sorry for the misunderstanding they are the official stern downloads.
When you go on the stern site do the SD-Card download section. You can copy the link and just replace the version number. (maybe in in editor).
This link entered directly entered into a browswer should start the download for old Versions.
They still have the software on the server, but no visible link to it
I just wanted to let you know that downgraded to version 1.21 with the 1987 version and that worked.

Thanks! Also, can I download the 1987 version to a usb stick and flash it directly to a new blank SD card I install in Spike 2 SD card slot? Will that work, since I have new Apple computer, that does not have an SD card slot on it, in order to flash the software.

#3803 24 days ago

For what it's worth, I'm seeing 4+ balls lock in the van even still on 1.21. I'm not even sure how many balls it's supposed to be anymore, as I definitely had a turtle power 6-ball going today. But it didn't really bother me- it was a blast to play.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's just related to the balls getting magnetized over time.

How does the van actually sense how many balls are loaded up? Is there a single opto that is supposed to only see one at the third position? I don't recall enough wires coming out of there to sense each one individually.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I admire your faith in Stern. Maybe I have lost my lustre for the company over the years. I know plenty of people that have reported the issue to Stern.
Code V1.22 has firmware undates and the firmware updates could be causing issues with the code. I am not a software person but worked out a few things when I tried to go backwards with the code. I successfully loaded V1.21 back in the machine via usb. Machine would not start back up saying coin door was open. (Our coin door switch is de activated and wires are clamped together). Leaving the game sit for 10 minutes, the game would start back up. I tried this a few times by turning the game on and off. Machine did exactly the same thing every time. The old firmware may not be in V1.21 so going backwards is not a good idea I think. Burning a new SD card may work, but I am unwilling to try it, Stern have not responded to any of my requests since Chaz (RIP). Maybe some of the software gurus can help us out and let us know how to successfully go backwards with the code.

#3804 24 days ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Here is Dwight’s 1st reply:
“I really do not believe that the latest code update could have caused those issues. It really only changed a small handful of stuff that is laid out in the readme. I will look into how the game could load 4 balls into the van. I appreciate the feedback.”
So he’s looking into a fix and will let us know ASAP I’m sure.
Did any of you guys successfully downgrade to 1.21? Where do we download that code, if so?

I have 1.22 on my LE and I just tried about a dozen TPMB on my game and it always re-loaded 3 balls into the van after the ball save times out. I even shot the right ramp as balls loaded and it worked ok.

I'm not doubting your problem, but in the meantime you could check a few things:

- The top switch on the right ramp is working correctly (probably not related to locking)
- The van door is not getting stuck open (for whatever reason)
- The van enter opto is working correctly

Rob

#3805 24 days ago
Quoted from ctl723:

How does the van actually sense how many balls are loaded up? Is there a single opto that is supposed to only see one at the third position? I don't recall enough wires coming out of there to sense each one individually.

The van doesn't have anything to count balls inside of it. There is an opto on the van entrance that probably does the counting. I just looked at the manual and it's switch 57.

Rob

#3806 24 days ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Thanks! Also, can I download the 1987 version to a usb stick and flash it directly to a new blank SD card I install in Spike 2 SD card slot? Will that work, since I have new Apple computer, that does not have an SD card slot on it.

I don't think this will work. the SD-Card images are complete images of the complete game. You can only put them on SD-Card and not an usb stick. Like the game Code versions. The 1987 Code is a modifed SD-Card Version.

I am not sure if this would work, but also i would't do it is to downgrade with game-code version. This could mess the system.
Game code-versions only update changes in the system, but downgrading with it could result in mixture of new and old files.
I can not remember if they even prevent it

On my pc i have a usb stick where you can insert sd-cards. I am not sure if this will work for apple. Maybe someone other can help you there.
Then i would get a spare SD-Card and just put the SD-Card images on the new card. So you would have both versions on 2 cards.
In this process you will also need a usb-stick to save your configurations. Stick the USB-Stick into the board and in the Util menu you can save your configurations. This will save Highscores and settings. With the new card in place you just go there again and load the configuration again.
Otherwise switching sd-cards will erase settings and highscores.

I hope this helps you.

#3807 24 days ago
Quoted from cabal:

you can just modify the link on the site and change 1_22 to 1_21 they still have it in the background, but not visible
pro:
https://f002.backblazeb2.com/file/gamecode/turtles_pro-1_21_0.Release.8G.sdcard.raw.zip
premium:
https://f002.backblazeb2.com/file/gamecode/turtles_le-1_21_0.Release.8G.sdcard.raw.zip
LE:
https://f002.backblazeb2.com/file/gamecode/turtles_le-1_21_0.Release.8G.sdcard.raw.zip
i don't know how many versions you can go back, i had luck with this method most of the for version before the latest.
On my pro version i downgraded again to the 1987 1.21 code, it did flashed again the node modeboards in this process. Going back again to 1.22 they were flashed again. I had no issues while playing in the downgraded version.

That is very good.. I like it! As long as you know the version numbers you can download old code!

I think you are on the money and we need to flash a new SD card to get all the correct firmware and software for that version of the code.

Great info, appreciate it.

#3808 24 days ago
Quoted from ctl723:

For what it's worth, I'm seeing 4+ balls lock in the van even still on 1.21. I'm not even sure how many balls it's supposed to be anymore, as I definitely had a turtle power 6-ball going today. But it didn't really bother me- it was a blast to play.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's just related to the balls getting magnetized over time.
How does the van actually sense how many balls are loaded up? Is there a single opto that is supposed to only see one at the third position? I don't recall enough wires coming out of there to sense each one individually.

There is a diverter and one opto that counts the balls as they go in to the van. That is it. If the balls are magnetized, the could stick together and two could go in before the diverter closes.

#3809 24 days ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

I have 1.22 on my LE and I just tried about a dozen TPMB on my game and it always re-loaded 3 balls into the van after the ball save times out. I even shot the right ramp as balls loaded and it worked ok.
I'm not doubting your problem, but in the meantime you could check a few things:
- The top switch on the right ramp is working correctly (probably not related to locking)
- The van door is not getting stuck open (for whatever reason)
- The van enter opto is working correctly
Rob

Have you stacked the multiballs to see if this happens on your game?

#3810 24 days ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Thanks! Also, can I download the 1987 version to a usb stick and flash it directly to a new blank SD card I install in Spike 2 SD card slot? Will that work, since I have new Apple computer, that does not have an SD card slot on it, in order to flash the software.

HowtocreateSDcard.pdf
#3811 24 days ago

Thanks for the links cabal !!

I can confirm that it works.
Downloaded the link for the RAW SD card for the LE 1.21.
Unzipped it and flashed it to a new SD card wit hddrawcopy tool.

Put it in my machine and when powering on, it started flashing the node boards back to 1.21.
Started a dozen games and the issue is gone!!!

The van works like a charm again, and I can confirm the issue of loading 4 balls is gone.
So the problem was indeed software related.

I'm going back to playing again!

#3812 24 days ago
Quoted from Mr_G_Hosting:

Thanks for the links cabal !!
I can confirm that it works.
Downloaded the link for the RAW SD card for the LE 1.21.
Unzipped it and flashed it to a new SD card wit hddrawcopy tool.
Put it in my machine and when powering on, it started flashing the node boards back to 1.21.
Started a dozen games and the issue is gone!!!
The van works like a charm again, and I can confirm the issue of loading 4 balls is gone.
So the problem was indeed software related.
I'm going back to playing again!

That is awesome info thanks very much. We will flash a new SD card and go back to V1.21.

Waiting for Stern is like watching red wine mature. Takes years and sometimes the result is fantastic other times just shit.

#3813 24 days ago

LE#062 checking in - finally!

Unfortunately, my distributor did me a favor and updated to 1.22 already. I have played two TP multiballs so far and both ended with no balls in play and the game starting ball search. In my case the ball is stuck behind the post that keeps balls in the pizza parlor, so between left orbit and parlor entrance. That‘s different from other people, right? Or is it a difference between Pro and LE?

Had to reboot to be able to play again. Flipper has less than 50 games in total.

Other than that:
- Build date July 14th, PF art looks clear and amazing
- Pizza disc slightly grinding
- Glider works fine

#3814 24 days ago

So just an update with my LE..

I haven’t been able to replicate the problem with the van loading more than three balls since I completely emptied the van and rebooted the machine.

It’s like once the machine installed the balls again, problem has been resolved.

Has anyone else done this and had luck? When I went from 1.21 to 1.22 I literally could not do turtle power multi ball without It getting stuck, I’d then take the glass off and just move the balls that were stuck.

It wasn’t until emptying out the van manually that the problem has now gone away. Weird

#3815 24 days ago
Quoted from th3_jaja:

So just an update with my LE..
I haven’t been able to replicate the problem with the van loading more than three balls since I completely emptied the van and rebooted the machine.
It’s like once the machine installed the balls again, problem has been resolved.
Has anyone else done this and had luck? When I went from 1.21 to 1.22 I literally could not do turtle power multi ball without It getting stuck,

How can I manually empty the van without breaking anything? Thanks for a short hint!

#3816 24 days ago
Quoted from azur3:

How can I manually empty the van without breaking anything? Thanks for a short hint!

There is a post a bit earlier in the thread (I think a page or 2 back) from pinballaddicted that goes into detail. Basically I just manually pulled the door down. Very easy to do and didn’t feel like it was going to snap off or anything.

Also just for the newcomers like me that were a bit late to the party, double check your sound settings. Mine was loaded with code 1.21 and didn’t sound flash, changing the sound impedance setting back to the default of 8 made a world of difference. When you look for it, you’ll notice it straight away as it’s the only setting not on default. I think it might be just with the LEs but could be wrong

#3817 24 days ago
Quoted from th3_jaja:

Also just for the newcomers like me that were a bit late to the party, double check your sound settings. Mine was loaded with code 1.21 and didn’t sound flash, changing the sound impedance setting back to the default of 8 made a world of difference.

Thanks a lot, I had exactly the same issue (on 1.22 straight from the distributor) and changing to 8 Ohm sounds a lot better indeed! Go and check it if you have updated recently

#3818 24 days ago
Quoted from th3_jaja:

So just an update with my LE..
I haven’t been able to replicate the problem with the van loading more than three balls since I completely emptied the van and rebooted the machine.
It’s like once the machine installed the balls again, problem has been resolved.
Has anyone else done this and had luck? When I went from 1.21 to 1.22 I literally could not do turtle power multi ball without It getting stuck, I’d then take the glass off and just move the balls that were stuck.
It wasn’t until emptying out the van manually that the problem has now gone away. Weird

No luck for me with that.
I tried everything from opening the van manually and emptying all balls and cleaning and then reloading again. No luck, the van kept loading 4 balls during turtle power MB.

Downgraded back to 1.21 this morning and the issue has gone. This seems to be the only solution on my LE.
So I’ll wait for 1.23 and try that to see if the van issue is resolved then.

#3819 24 days ago
Quoted from Mr_G_Hosting:

No luck for me with that

Same here unfortunately: TP Multiball leads to balls stuck behind van on my LE with 1.22 even when emptying van manually before.

Let‘s hope for 1.23 soon!

#3820 24 days ago

Still Loving my Pro since the July 2nd delivery date. about 350-400 games. recently waxed and cleaned and began swapping out rubbers for titan pinball rings (GotD). Looks good and plays wicked fast.

#3821 24 days ago
Quoted from Thegeekyhusband:

Still Loving my Pro since the July 2nd delivery date. about 350-400 games. recently waxed and cleaned and began swapping out rubbers for titan pinball rings (GotD). Looks good and plays wicked fast.

What colors did you go with? Looks like you went with Glow in the Dark. I'm leaning towards clear for everything. Green for the flippers and slings.

#3822 24 days ago
Quoted from Thegeekyhusband:

Still Loving my Pro since the July 2nd delivery date. about 350-400 games. recently waxed and cleaned and began swapping out rubbers for titan pinball rings (GotD). Looks good and plays wicked fast.

I waxed mine and it plays wicked fast as well.... a little too fast. I'm getting rejects from the pizza parlor, and the occasional accidental kickout of balls locked in the parlor.

#3823 24 days ago

If you would like to try out some speedruns on TMNT, here are some good benchmarks from the Stern TMNT speedrun steam. If you've not tried speedruns, you should give it a shot. It's really fun.

https://speedrunpinball.com/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/

#3824 24 days ago
Quoted from Crater:

I waxed mine and it plays wicked fast as well.... a little too fast. I'm getting rejects from the pizza parlor, and the occasional accidental kickout of balls locked in the parlor.

That always happens after a good waxing. It will settle down after a few plays.

#3825 24 days ago

Has anyone had issues with the Pizza Parlor ball lock? I tried searching and couldn’t find anything. I have a premium machine and the Pizza Parlor always locks ball 1, but it’s a toss up if it will lock ball 2 and almost never locks ball 3. Very frustrating since it’s a fairly easy shot to hit and also affects starting episodes.

#3826 24 days ago

So glad I got a Pro this time. The Premiums seem to have nothing but trouble.

#3827 24 days ago

just replaced the custom balls in the game, they were quite heavily magnatized. When i lay them all together on the table and pulled one ball slowly away.
All others followed. I don't think this should be case.
Had some Problems with locked balls on my pro under left ramp. I hope will now be gone.

#3828 24 days ago
Quoted from BiggieJoe:

Has anyone had issues with the Pizza Parlor ball lock? I tried searching and couldn’t find anything. I have a premium machine and the Pizza Parlor always locks ball 1, but it’s a toss up if it will lock ball 2 and almost never locks ball 3. Very frustrating since it’s a fairly easy shot to hit and also affects starting episodes.

What’s the behavior? You shoot the lock, and nothing happens? The ball isn’t counted?

Does ball lock 1 ever activate ball 2 as well?

#3829 24 days ago
Quoted from TheHoss:

What’s the behavior? You shoot the lock, and nothing happens? The ball isn’t counted?
Does ball lock 1 ever activate ball 2 as well?

When it doesn’t lock it’s as if nothing happened. Not counted, no points for hitting the parlor, no episode start of lit. it makes it past the gate and just comes down the left orbit like nothing happened.

When it does count a lock it only counts one. I’ve never had it count one as 2

#3830 24 days ago
Quoted from BiggieJoe:

When it doesn’t lock it’s as if nothing happened. Not counted, no points for hitting the parlor, no episode start of lit. it makes it past the gate and just comes down the left orbit like nothing happened.
When it does count a lock it only counts one. I’ve never had it count one as 2

Look at the up post of the lock. If it’s too far forward, the balls aren’t breaking the beams as they sit in the lock.

#3831 23 days ago

Jumped in on a pro for my first pin. (Im)patiently waiting for it to arrive!

As my first, anything I should know?

#3832 23 days ago

Did same for my first one too. Just look up how to unbox that’s about it. Cliffy or something for the shooter lane if you care. Come back if you notice anything weird.

Quoted from BrotherSir:

Jumped in on a pro for my first pin. (Im)patiently waiting for it to arrive!
As my first, anything I should know?

#3833 23 days ago

Congrats to first timers - brothersir and thomas3184 ! Nice pick for you first pin. You will enjoy the game.

#3834 23 days ago
Quoted from BrotherSir:

Jumped in on a pro for my first pin. (Im)patiently waiting for it to arrive!
As my first, anything I should know?

Don't forget to clean the balls with alcohol before installing and don't forget to install the tilt bob. Kills me when I see games that are years old and the tilt bob is still in the bag. Go ahead and get an extra set or two of balls from Pinballlife or the like. Balls in TMNT tend to magnetize quickly. While you're there, pick up some flipper rubbers and slingshot rubbers since they are the first to wear out.

#3835 23 days ago
Quoted from BiggieJoe:

When it doesn’t lock it’s as if nothing happened. Not counted, no points for hitting the parlor, no episode start of lit. it makes it past the gate and just comes down the left orbit like nothing happened.
When it does count a lock it only counts one. I’ve never had it count one as 2

Once every 3-4 games when I lock ball 1 in pizza parlor, it shows lock animation, and then the game acts as if I drained a ball. It only happens on ball 1 and also seems more prominent if I stop to watch the animations. Anyone else? This is a Pro on v 1.22. Love this game so far!

#3836 23 days ago
Quoted from DaddyManD:

Once every 3-4 games when I lock ball 1 in pizza parlor, it shows lock animation, and then the game acts as if I drained a ball. It only happens on ball 1 and also seems more prominent if I stop to watch the animations. Anyone else? This is a Pro on v 1.22. Love this game so far!

Do you play multiplayer games? or just Single player.
With single player 1st lock should shoot a new ball.
Do you hear anything after the animations? That balls are tried to be loaded? Coils activated?

#3837 23 days ago
Quoted from DaddyManD:

Once every 3-4 games when I lock ball 1 in pizza parlor, it shows lock animation, and then the game acts as if I drained a ball. It only happens on ball 1 and also seems more prominent if I stop to watch the animations. Anyone else? This is a Pro on v 1.22. Love this game so far!

Do you know how to put your machine is switch test? If you cannot get someone to help you.

Sounds like you may have a switch issue in the pizza lock or ball trough. A good start would be to put your machine in test mode and test the switches in the ball trough and pizza parlour with a ball.

Good luck!

#3838 23 days ago

Just played a pro again on location and my kid and I loved it. Question is if the pro has the same Krang call outs taunting as much as a premium or if the premium has more coded in along with the Krang toy? Debating on premium vs pro as pro really feels like the best deal. I like the van opening, but not $2k more, and honestly don’t care about diverted or two way disc. Thoughts?

#3839 23 days ago
Quoted from konghusker:

Just played a pro again on location and my kid and I loved it. Question is if the pro has the same Krang call outs taunting as much as a premium or if the premium has more coded in along with the Krang toy? Debating on premium vs pro as pro really feels like the best deal. I like the van opening, but not $2k more, and honestly don’t care about diverted or two way disc. Thoughts?

Krang has call outs on the pro. When I was first flopping around pro/premium the Krang toy was the main thing I wanted so I just made one and now I’m totally happy with my choice.

262C74F8-84BB-4EAC-9712-4CEF894A5212.jpeg
#3840 23 days ago
Quoted from Wildbill327:

Krang has call outs on the pro. When I was first flopping around pro/premium the Krang toy was the main thing I wanted so I just made one and now I’m totally happy with my choice.[quoted image]

I bought this mod a while back but haven't installed yet. The wiring is straightforward from the instructions. Is Krang held on by a single zip tie? That's my only question. Looks great!

#3841 22 days ago
Quoted from konghusker:

Just played a pro again on location and my kid and I loved it. Question is if the pro has the same Krang call outs taunting as much as a premium or if the premium has more coded in along with the Krang toy? Debating on premium vs pro as pro really feels like the best deal. I like the van opening, but not $2k more, and honestly don’t care about diverted or two way disc. Thoughts?

I debated this too. The only thing I like about the diverter is the ability to move it so you can hit the left ramp and send it back to the right flipper to keep feeding it. Agree, two way disk does nothing for me. I do like the physical van lock and the 8 ball MB is nuts. This was a tough choice for me but a premium came up local that someone else backed out on so I went for it and don't regret it (that being said, I think I would have been fine with a pro)

#3842 22 days ago

So this one has me stumped... I'm trying to understand how to install my new cliffy shooter lane eject. I'm not sure how to get these two screws out near the eject. The tops are flat and the underside doesn't have any leverage either.

20200926_221900 (resized).jpg20200926_221912 (resized).jpg
#3843 22 days ago
Quoted from Crater:

So this one has me stumped... I'm trying to understand how to install my new cliffy shooter lane eject. I'm not sure how to get these two screws out near the eject. The tops are flat and the underside doesn't have any leverage either.
[quoted image][quoted image]

You can tap them out from the bottom. Put the nuts back on a couple of turns and gently tap the bolt up. Once the nuts have bottomed out, take them off and tap the bolts out. The bolts have wings on then and need to go back in the same direction they came out

#3844 22 days ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

You can tap them out from the bottom. Put the nuts back on and gently tap them up. Once the nuts have bottomed out, take them off and tap the bolts out. The bolts have wings on then and need to go back in the same direction they came out

Awesome! Thanks!

#3845 22 days ago
Quoted from durgee7:

I bought this mod a while back but haven't installed yet. The wiring is straightforward from the instructions. Is Krang held on by a single zip tie? That's my only question. Looks great!

I actually bought this from EBay and installed a light and hooked it up to the Krang arrow insert. I can now see when the combo is running as the light blinks when a Krang combo is running. I used 2 black zip ties to blend in with Krang....thanks man hope you get yours in soon because it looks good and actually helps.

#3846 22 days ago

A few more pics.

4E3805E4-02A1-4F8B-A64D-4AC2B5D57AF0.jpegAF96013D-3EEA-45A9-89B9-53891F82D593.jpegBBE50698-B549-4F44-B20E-F76ABD2B9000.jpeg
#3847 22 days ago

Can you take some pictures with glass off,to much reflection.
Thanks

#3848 22 days ago
Quoted from rockrand:

Can you take some pictures with glass off,to much reflection.
Thanks

There is a guide on how to make it earlier in the thread. Some where are page 40. Might be easier to search krang mod to find it.

#3849 22 days ago

I just used double sided 3M tape on Krang Pads (feet) stick to plastic great! No issues.

BC61C7EA-7824-471C-84D2-4CD9086BC481 (resized).jpegD8137B5C-37E7-4BF7-BB1D-C704CBD2D8E8 (resized).jpegDD6A4A69-6D50-4745-B2F7-6AD26F35E9F5 (resized).jpeg
#3850 22 days ago

I'm going to ask an incredibly stupid question here: did they make the pro version of this too good? I see very little incentive to go premium on this machine.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 17.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 349.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
There are 4229 posts in this topic. You are on page 77 of 85.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside