Hopkins, MN
One on the left with black around LED is 5 V, one on the right with white around LED is 7.5 V.
LTG : )
(Topic ID: 64619)
Linked Games
Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013
Topic Gallery
Quoted from LTG:One on the left with black around LED is 5 V, one on the right with white around LED is 7.5 V.
Thanks, definitely different.
Lloyd rocks.... I had board #15 go bad on Thursday, paid Jen for overnight shipping, and had a fully lit WOZ at 9:35am Friday. Lloyd made home diagnostics very easy to understand and got a repair order in before I had time enough to melt down...... JJP customer service is crazy good...
I had #15 go bad recently as well. I was able to replace w/ my extra and have a new stand by on the way.
When did the boards get upgraded? I know of people that have had games arrive in the last week that have had issues.
Quoted from TaylorVA:When did the boards get upgraded?
GI replacements ( 1 thru 31 ) going out now as replacements are the redesigned ones.
Most games, most boards won't have a problem. If any get replaced, as the improved boards become available, they will be replaced with improved ones to end the problems.
LTG : )
Hello Lloyd,
Are games shipping this point forward coming with the redesigned boards? Just wondering if my game which should be shipping in the next 2-4 weeks will come with updated boards.
Thank you!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Just wondering if my game which should be shipping in the next 2-4 weeks will come with updated boards.
I'm sorry I don't know.
LTG : )
Quoted from TVP:Good question. You can loose half your playfield lights if a single slingshot GI LED board goes out.
It is even more of a hassle if you don't have a spare on hand.
The board on the left is the old LED board. The board on the right is the redesigned board.
I disagree with you pix/post. There are obvious differences in the boards in you pix but the one on the right is the same board that went bad on me and this is not the new redesigned board that Lloyd is talking about.
P/N for new board is #15-0019-00 P/N of board on right is 15-0006-00.(please correct me if I am wrong)
Also did your new board come with tape already on it? I have had to reuse the tape for 3 change outs now.
I will send pic of new board when received.
Keith
Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards, the pictures that were posted earlier are not my redesign. There were a couple revisions to the boards after production started, however, the last one is that which removes the issues which were still prevalent in the earlier redesigns. I came rather late to this project, but understand the issues and have since fixed them. The newer board design is much more robust and I have not seen one fail.
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
The majority of the boards in the game do not have problems, but there were some issues with long-power-cabled-single LED boards (LED15 was an issue in a lot of games, but the new RGBLED board fixes that.).
As snikrap just posted, the new PN is 15-0019-00.
If you have the older boards, don't worry. You are fully covered under warranty and your issues will be solved if something shows up. You will be sent the new board(s) to remove the issues from your game when you submit a ticket, or talk to Alex, Lloyd, or myself. We'll take care of you.
Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Quoted from Hogbog:Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards, the pictures that were posted earlier are not my redesign. There were a couple revisions to the boards after production started, however, the last one is that which removes the issues which were still prevalent in the earlier redesigns. I came rather late to this project, but understand the issues and have since fixed them. The newer board design is much more robust and I have not seen one fail.
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
The majority of the boards in the game do not have problems, but there were some issues with long-power-cabled-single LED boards (LED15 was an issue in a lot of games, but the new RGBLED board fixes that.).
As snikrap just posted, the new PN is 15-0019-00.
If you have the older boards, don't worry. You are fully covered under warranty and your issues will be solved if something shows up. You will be sent the new board(s) to remove the issues from your game when you submit a ticket, or talk to Alex, Lloyd, or myself. We'll take care of you.
Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Just curious as an electrical engineer myself, what kinds of circuit elements did you add to solve the problems? Thanks
Quoted from Hogbog:Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards, the pictures that were posted earlier are not my redesign. There were a couple revisions to the boards after production started, however, the last one is that which removes the issues which were still prevalent in the earlier redesigns. I came rather late to this project, but understand the issues and have since fixed them. The newer board design is much more robust and I have not seen one fail.
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
The majority of the boards in the game do not have problems, but there were some issues with long-power-cabled-single LED boards (LED15 was an issue in a lot of games, but the new RGBLED board fixes that.).
As snikrap just posted, the new PN is 15-0019-00.
If you have the older boards, don't worry. You are fully covered under warranty and your issues will be solved if something shows up. You will be sent the new board(s) to remove the issues from your game when you submit a ticket, or talk to Alex, Lloyd, or myself. We'll take care of you.
Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Great stuff!!
I bet Jack's sleeping a bit better at night these days. Oh, wait, Jack doesn't sleep...never mind. 
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com
Quoted from Hogbog:Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards, the pictures that were posted earlier are not my redesign. There were a couple revisions to the boards after production started, however, the last one is that which removes the issues which were still prevalent in the earlier redesigns. I came rather late to this project, but understand the issues and have since fixed them. The newer board design is much more robust and I have not seen one fail.
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
The majority of the boards in the game do not have problems, but there were some issues with long-power-cabled-single LED boards (LED15 was an issue in a lot of games, but the new RGBLED board fixes that.).
As snikrap just posted, the new PN is 15-0019-00.
If you have the older boards, don't worry. You are fully covered under warranty and your issues will be solved if something shows up. You will be sent the new board(s) to remove the issues from your game when you submit a ticket, or talk to Alex, Lloyd, or myself. We'll take care of you.
Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Eric is Brilliant and always willing to help! Any issues that have come up with the game have been or will be addressed as quickly as humanly possible and this is a testament to that.
As I said earlier no one should worry about support on their game
Quoted from Hogbog:Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards, the pictures that were posted earlier are not my redesign. There were a couple revisions to the boards after production started, however, the last one is that which removes the issues which were still prevalent in the earlier redesigns. I came rather late to this project, but understand the issues and have since fixed them. The newer board design is much more robust and I have not seen one fail.
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
The majority of the boards in the game do not have problems, but there were some issues with long-power-cabled-single LED boards (LED15 was an issue in a lot of games, but the new RGBLED board fixes that.).
As snikrap just posted, the new PN is 15-0019-00.
If you have the older boards, don't worry. You are fully covered under warranty and your issues will be solved if something shows up. You will be sent the new board(s) to remove the issues from your game when you submit a ticket, or talk to Alex, Lloyd, or myself. We'll take care of you.
Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Glad to see JJP's best and brightest are on the case
always a good idea to wait for bugs like this to get worked out,early adopters with the old boards could be in for a ride like myself,I do not get a chance to play much between being busy and with other games to play WOZ gets very little use, though it is a lot of fun.
I am wondering if I should leave my woz on all the time to see if boards fail because at the rate I play 1 year equals very little play or game on time and I could have big troubles down the road.So I am asking if the amount of time the game is on equals more chance of failure?
Quoted from rockrand:always a good idea to wait for bugs like this to get worked out,early adopters with the old boards could be in for a ride like myself,I do not get a chance to play much between being busy and with other games to play WOZ gets very little use, though it is a lot of fun.I am wondering if I should leave my woz on all the time to see if boards fail because at the rate I play 1 year equals very little play or game on time and I could have big troubles down the road.So I am asking if the amount of time the game is on equals more chance of failure?
As an early reciever its not a big deal and it is a big deal. Its not a big deal because JJP deals with it quickly and to your satisfaction. Big deal if you cant wait a few days for a replacement board.
The boards are replaced rather easily so it all works in the end. When they fail, its usually early on when you just get the game of after a few short weeks.
Quoted from Hogbog:Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards, the pictures that were posted earlier are not my redesign. There were a couple revisions to the boards after production started, however, the last one is that which removes the issues which were still prevalent in the earlier redesigns. I came rather late to this project, but understand the issues and have since fixed them. The newer board design is much more robust and I have not seen one fail.
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
The majority of the boards in the game do not have problems, but there were some issues with long-power-cabled-single LED boards (LED15 was an issue in a lot of games, but the new RGBLED board fixes that.).
As snikrap just posted, the new PN is 15-0019-00.
If you have the older boards, don't worry. You are fully covered under warranty and your issues will be solved if something shows up. You will be sent the new board(s) to remove the issues from your game when you submit a ticket, or talk to Alex, Lloyd, or myself. We'll take care of you.
Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Eric,
Does this post from Jim Heck, from the owner's group, accurately describe the problem and fixes and components on the redesigned board? This is per the pic (not shown in this thread, but on the WOZ group) with the extra capacitors and resistors to calm voltage spikes and drops that were messing with the controller chip.
Dan Garrett, ECLEWOZ #478
-from Jim
"For those trying to analyze the old vs new pictures of the LED boards. Here are a few differences I can point out.
One significant change that I see is the addition of two decoupling capacitors to pins 2 and 4 of the controller chip C100 and C101. The controller chip is essentially switching appreciable current on and off quickly to light the LED, there could be a large L * di/dt effect at the Vin/Vref pin caused by the inductance of the trace that supplies the part. As the current changes rapidly, the inductance of that lead (which could be significant) could be imparting a voltage spike that exceeds the rated supply voltage for Vin and Vref. This could blow up parts. The addition of a decoupling capacitors to ground right at the point where the trace connects to the chip would greatly reduce the trace impedance and reduce the voltage spike that might be seen by those pins. Essentially, the capacitor acts as storage that will supply the current needed when the chip switches rapidly, rolling off the voltage spike that would otherwise be caused by the change in current times the trace inductance (V = L * di/dt).
They also added series ballast resistors between the controller chip and the LED to dump some of the power outside the controller chip, R101, 102 and 103. The purpose of these would be to dump power and heat external to the controller chip itself. The LED will drop around 2V to light, but that leaves the chip with 3 volts times the drive current to dissipate as heat. The series resistor takes some of this voltage drop and leaves less for the chip to handle internally.
-Jim Heck"
Quoted from rockrand:So I am asking if the amount of time the game is on equals more chance of failure?
No, just enjoy your game. On time has nothing to do with it.
Something comes up, we'll fix it.
LTG : )
Seems like Mr. Heck got a lot right. Those are a few of the steps I took to prevent premature failure. Now, I can't give away all of the trade secrets, but if you guys want to talk about it more, I'll be happy to explain the boards at Expo in person. I'll be at the JJP booth most of the time, or laying waste to high scores in the open room. 
Quoted from Hogbog:Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards, the pictures that were posted earlier are not my redesign. There were a couple revisions to the boards after production started, however, the last one is that which removes the issues which were still prevalent in the earlier redesigns. I came rather late to this project, but understand the issues and have since fixed them. The newer board design is much more robust and I have not seen one fail.
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
The majority of the boards in the game do not have problems, but there were some issues with long-power-cabled-single LED boards (LED15 was an issue in a lot of games, but the new RGBLED board fixes that.).
As snikrap just posted, the new PN is 15-0019-00.
If you have the older boards, don't worry. You are fully covered under warranty and your issues will be solved if something shows up. You will be sent the new board(s) to remove the issues from your game when you submit a ticket, or talk to Alex, Lloyd, or myself. We'll take care of you.
Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Thanks for posting. I had my first failure(#15) this weekend so good to hear that an apparent fix has been made and is available.
Quoted from Hogbog:Let me clear the air here. As the guy who redesigned the boards....
Quick question regarding the RGB LED boards and the light tubes relating to GI lighting.
These LED RGB boards are taped to a mounting bracket and the bracket has a single screw into the bottom of the playfield.
There are a number of instances on my WOZ where the LED emitter does not sit directly on the center on the light tube. Some emitters are 50% off the light tube. Others are off more and some others are off less.
With the bracket mount screwed into the playfield, the LED board mounting screw can be loosened and the board can be moved. However in most instances, the radius that the LED board moves (from the screw center point) still will never align 100% on the light tube.
Q. How important is the alignment of the LED emitter to be centered on the light tube to get proper light into the tube and on to the top of the playfield?
I can see a lot of light being dissipated under the playfield on these misaligned RGB LED boards.
Thanks!
Quoted from TVP:Quick question regarding the RGB LED boards and the light tubes relating to GI lighting.
These LED RGB boards are taped to a mounting bracket and the bracket has a single screw into the bottom of the playfield.
There are a number of instances on my WOZ where the LED emitter does not sit directly on the center on the light tube. Some emitters are 50% off the light tube. Others are off more and some others are off less.
With the bracket mount screwed into the playfield, the LED board mounting screw can be loosened and the board can be moved. However in most instances, the radius that the LED board moves (from the screw center point) still will never align 100% on the light tube.
Q. How important is the alignment of the LED emitter to be centered on the light tube to get proper light into the tube and on to the top of the playfield?
I can see a lot of light being dissipated under the playfield on these misaligned RGB LED boards.
Thanks!
I've unscrewed some and moved them so that the LED is sitting directly under the tube and I think it helps.
Calgary, AB
I had the same thing happen to me last night as the OP.
I noticed while playing that the There's No place like home area was out.
turned the game off/on,then the whole side went out.
Glad to here it is an easy fix,I must admit I was worried.
My supplier,Jay Richardson Pinball hooked me up right away.
Parts are in the mail
I didn't even notice this thread until now.
Thanks Alex for all your help,you to LTG
You guys rock
I'm kinda glad #15 is popping up so much. Maybe once we all replace THAT board, we'll be gold for a while. I hope so! Can't wait to see my RAINBOW lights again.
Quoted from callmesteam:I'm kinda glad #15 is popping up so much. Maybe once we all replace THAT board, we'll be gold for a while. I hope so! Can't wait to see my RAINBOW lights again.
You realize that the #15 LED board is the exact same as the other single LED boards in the game right? Except of course for the satellite and drop target single LED boards. But that single LED board is used A LOT in the game. The difference is placement, #15 is the only LED board in the #15 spot.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com
Quoted from musketd:Why would they piggy back the boards off of each other? That makes no sense, because if you do it that way then one board would be out and then hence all the boards would go out. Why would it be designed like that?
For one thing, it saves a crap load of wire and dramatically cleans up the underside of the playfield over having a home run per board.
Quoted from markmon:For one thing, it saves a crap load of wire and dramatically cleans up the underside of the playfield over having a home run per board.
Losing a single GI LED board will take out everything downstream making the game unplayable until the board can be replaced. You can't play a game or expect your customers to pump dollars into a machine when half the playfield lights are out. These are not just GI lights that go out downstream. They are ALL playfield lights.
Quoted from Hogbog:Seems like Mr. Heck got a lot right. Those are a few of the steps I took to prevent premature failure. Now, I can't give away all of the trade secrets, but if you guys want to talk about it more, I'll be happy to explain the boards at Expo in person. I'll be at the JJP booth most of the time, or laying waste to high scores in the open room.
I'm and electronics hobbiest and will be at Expo - Jack knows I can ask questions with the best of them. I'm not quite Gabe or Daniel Tonks as far as # of Woz posts, but I have been to the factory and know a few things beyond the average Woz buyer.
Quoted from Borygard:You realize that the #15 LED board is the exact same as the other single LED boards in the game right? Except of course for the satellite and drop target single LED boards. But that single LED board is used A LOT in the game. The difference is placement, #15 is the only LED board in the #15 spot.
--
Rob Anthony
Rob is correct. When touring the factory a few weeks ago, Jack gave me a walk-through on the underside of a game that was on the line on the rotsserie, he traced the chain, and noted boards that were particularly vulnerable, what they were doing to fix the boards, etc. Not to worry.Board 15 is and the end of chain, and Rob's right, it takes a LOT of use/abuse in the game. Hence the voltage noise on that particular board is really difficult for the old boards to handle without failure. Eric's beefed up redesign with added components and defenses from voltage dips/spikes will fix the issue.
This is not a big deal, JJP service is excellent and noted in this thread and on the WOZ google owners group.
I think the full stress on the old boards were hard to test in isolation - in the game, in sequence, under a lot of use in the game - the boards failed, were redesigned and an easy replacement.
Quoted from Hogbog:....
Every game shipping out of the factory as of last week Friday has the complete, designed by me, LED boards(You're good PanzerFreak). It has been a work in progress, and LED retro-fits are being sent on a case by case basis if the customer has a problem. The new LEDs dropped into an old system will work and cease issues from re-occurring.
.....Eric
Electrical Engineer
Jersey Jack Pinball
Awesome. My WOZ will be delivered this Saturday! Good timing!!
Quoted from TVP:Losing a single GI LED board will take out everything downstream making the game unplayable until the board can be replaced. You can't play a game or expect your customers to pump dollars into a machine when half the playfield lights are out. These are not just GI lights that go out downstream. They are ALL playfield lights.
If it is one of the single LED boards that goes out and it takes out many of your lights, can't you take out one of the last ones in the stream to substitute for the bad LED and thus have most of the lights working until you get the new board?
Quoted from DCFAN:If it is one of the single LED boards that goes out and it takes out many of your lights, can't you take out one of the last ones in the stream to substitute for the bad LED and thus have most of the lights working until you get the new board?
Yes sir. Did that exact same thing.
Quoted from Hitch9:Yes sir. Did that exact same thing.
Thanks for the answer. It seems that many would rather just say "woe is me" than to be creative and keep their games working while waiting for the new board.
Hopefully the LED board redesign will put an end to this subject once and for all.
Quoted from DCFAN:If it is one of the single LED boards that goes out and it takes out many of your lights, can't you take out one of the last ones in the stream to substitute for the bad LED and thus have most of the lights working until you get the new board?
Yes, I went from more than half the lights out to about 15% out by moving boards.
Quoted from DCFAN:If it is one of the single LED boards that goes out and it takes out many of your lights, can't you take out one of the last ones in the stream to substitute for the bad LED and thus have most of the lights working until you get the new board?
That is correct. I had to do this for our WoZ on location after two days of play as the #15 LED board went out. I got the replacement yesterday and installed it and the inserts are working 100% now.
I hope that this type of open communication by pinball manufacturers becomes more of the norm because it is pretty sweet especially if your a pinball addict. Thanks for the info and hard work JJP team! Keep us suckers flippin
Quoted from Russell:I think my new WOZLE must be having the same problem. I've only had it 4 days, then I suddenly lost 1/2 of my LEDs. I've opened a ticket, but any additional assistance would be greatly appreciated. Is there else I should be checking, or is this obviously a bad board?
Yes, it's a bad board, and from the looks of your playfield, it's probably number 15. My number 15 just failed this morning, and it looked like yours does. Lift up the playfield and look for the lowest number LED board that isn't lit. 15 is in the area by the crystal ball.
Quoted from Russell:Is there else I should be checking, or is this obviously a bad board?
That sure looks like a bad RGB LED board #15. A simple swap with your spare board from the goodie bag (or new one sent by JJP) will get you back up and running in a few minutes.
Quoted from VegasAlleycat:That sure looks like a bad RGB LED board #15. A simple swap with you spare board from the goodie bag (or new one sent by JJP) will get you back up and running in a few minutes.
If he got his game 4 days ago (like I did) he won't have a spare. They stopped putting spares in the goodie bag a while back....
Quoted from MattElder:15 is in the area by the crystal ball.
#15 is the GI tube sticking up on the far side of the crystal ball, #16 in closer to front under there.
If the B A L L Leds in front of the stand up targets near there are good ( W2 Board ) then check #15 next, and work your way up #16, #17, etc.
Page C-50 in the manual can be a big help.
LTG : )
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