Whirlwind
Williams, 1990You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider RyanClaytor.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Hi Guys,
My WW just started having issues with the upper flipper. It started not being strong enough to hit the ball up the ramp and then stopped flipping altogether. If I take the glass off and help it along a little bit, it will flip and then stay up. Once it's up it is pretty strong, but it is either not flipping or flipping in a very weak manner. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
www.ElephantEater.com
Hi Guys,
Finally got to do a flipper rebuild on my WW upper-right flipper. I replaced the sleeve, stopper, and linkage. Still weak! 
Quoted from hootowls:see if the BLU-YEL 50V lead is still attached
Checked all the leads. From what I can tell everything is still fully attached.
Quoted from Capper96:First check the spring and make sure it has not eaten the link up
You're right, the spring was eating into the linkage SLIGHTLY, but even after it was completely replaced, it was still weak.
Quoted from Capper96:Next grab an Allen and tighten that flipper screw up even more
Tighted after the rebuild. Pretty darn tight. 
Quoted from dmacy:Possibly EOS needs re-adjusted too.
Looks like the EOS opens to about 1/8 of an inch or so. Is that about right?
Any other suggestions would be great.
P.S. Runnin' out the door right now, but if you think pictures would help I could post later.
Thanks, all!
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
www.ElephantEater.com
Hi guys,
Got some time to snap some pix tonight. Let me show you what I'm workin' with here and hopefully that will give you some more ideas.
First we have the flipper mech in question:
DSC08076.jpg
Next shot here is the coil leads and solder joints:
DSC08077.jpg
Then the EOS leads (highlighted):
DSC08078.jpg
This is the EOS fully open:
DSC08080.jpg
From what I understand, the EOS is supposed to open near the end of the flipper's range of motion (which it does) and open to a max gap of 1/8" (which I attempted to show...with difficulty):
DSC08084.jpg
So, here's a hack Photoshop job where I grabbed 1/8" from the ruler and kinda digitally jimmy'ed it a little closer to the EOS gap. I think the gap APPEARS to be a little less than an 1/8" because the ruler was a LITTLE closer to the camera than the EOS switch, but you're welcome to draw your own conclusions:
DSC08084a.jpg
Finally, the flipper button, here in the open position:
DSC08085.jpg
...and also in the closed (flipped) position:
DSC08086.jpg
From what I can tell, I'm ruling out most of the suggestions, but I'll try to go through them methodically in an effort to rule them out:
Quoted from practicalsteve:Make sure its as exact to 1/8th of an inch as possible.
I'm pretty sure it's right where it needs to be, but I could be wrong. Assuming I'm wrong, I do not have a leaf adjustment tool...and I'll hope for an alternate tool suggestion (needle nose pliers?).
Quoted from viperrwk:Make sure the EOS switch is opening...near the EOS.
Check.
Quoted from viperrwk:You also need some vertical play as well in the shaft.
Double-check. ...and thanks for the link!
Quoted from dmacy:Can you take a picture
Booyah. 
Quoted from dmacy:and or a video Ryan?
If necessary.
Quoted from mof:Make sure that they are held together tight when the flipper is resting. One way to know they are tight, is when you watch the leaves as you move the flipper by hand slowly, the leaves should move a little until the pads no longer touch, that way you know there was a little pressure holding them together, rather than "just barely touching" -- does that make sense?
Sense is made. Now this is an interesting one, because the top leaf doesn't move, only the bottom leaf that gets hit with the flipper bar (or whatever it's called) moves. So, does this mean I need to adjust the top leaf so that it has a little more pressure on the bottom one?
Quoted from hootowls:Don't forget to look at the cabinet leaf switch too. It's a two contact switch with the second contact being for the upper flipper.
Good call again. It's pictured above. Do you see anything fishy?
Quoted from cal50:Make sure its the right coil to begin with.
The manual says FL-11630 and so does the Flipper Coil paper, so I think we're good.
Quoted from cal50:Does the flipper bat move easily in the bushing ?
Does that mean making it's range of motion easily without any drag? If so, then yes it does.
Quoted from cal50:Make sure the up / down clearance is not set too tight.
Seems to have plenty of vertical clearance all the way through its range of motion. Not scrapin' on the playfield or anything.
Quoted from cal50:Same voltage at all coil lugs?
I have a DMM, but not sure how to check this. (I'm a newbie, so talk slowly to me.) 
Quoted from cal50:Adjust EOS switch.
See above.
Quoted from cal50:Clean cabinet flipper switch contacts and check solder connection to wires.
Hm. I wonder if this has anything to do with it. Do I just slide one of those emery boards between the contacts? Lemme try that.
*BRB*
OH S#!T. Now it's not working at all. 
Not even kidding.
HELP! *L*
Alright, crisis averted. I sort of nudged the flipper leaf switches around a bit and now it's back to the same old weak flippin' it was doing before. So, let me get back to the suggestions:
Quoted from cal50:and check solder connection to wires.
Solids as far as I can tell:
DSC08090.jpg
Quoted from cal50:Ohm value the same for similar coils ?
I have a DMM, but not sure how to check this. (Again.)
Quoted from cal50:Good connection at the coil lugs ?
What are those? ...are those where the thin red/copper-y wires from the flipper coil are soldered? I think I was calling them leads before, and there's a picture above. They looked fine to me...but please tell me if you see something different.
Quoted from cal50:Are the flipper parts in good condition (coil, sleeve , stop, plunger , link & pin) ?
Just replaced sleeve , stop, plunger , link & pin. Haven't tried replacing the coil yet.
Quoted from cal50:Re-seat the flipper power connector.
Huh. Where's that? I'd happily reseat it if I knew what or where it was. Ha-ha!
Quoted from cal50:Do a simple test and momentarily ground the non-power lug of the coil to a ground point ( cab braid or side rail) and see if it acts the same.
You lost me on this one. This is another part where you'll have to talk real slowly to me. 
Quoted from ChadH:replaced the coil and now it is working great. Huge difference.
I've stopped just short of this, only because I don't have a coil handy. Might have to place an order if none of this other stuff works. Good to know that might fix my problems, though.
Thanks for all the help, guys! Lookin' forward to figuring this out with you.
Sincerely,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com
Quoted from dsuperbee:2nd pic, look at the top lug of the coil. It appears you have a broken wire there.
Pretty sure that little guy is still connected. Here's a closer pic:
Good eye, though! Tough to tell on that picture you referenced. Thanks, dsuperbee.
Quoted from mof:Yes. That sounds like no pressure to me.
Sometimes this is the cause of weak/no flipper action. More pressure!
Compare this to the other two flippers and see if they seem to have enough.
-mof
Oh, man! This was IT! 
I compared it to my other two flippers and you were right, not nearly as much pressure. I'm back to makin' the ramp shot, now! 
Thanks so much, mof!
Now, I have a question about tweaking this. So, my flipper seems to be back to full strength (plenty of ramp shots have been made now), but after I bent the leaf, it doesn't quite open to 1/8" (a lot less of a gap now). Do you have any tips on how to tweak those leaf switches to be the correct amount of pressure and gap? ...or do you just kinda do what feels right? Haven't messed with leaf switches like this before (I just used my needle nose pliers...guess I should buy a leaf switch adjuster) so if you have any tips, I'm all ears.
Best,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:I have not forgotten about your last e-mail from waaaaay back when and will get to it! Did I send you that repair manual in PDF? If not, lmk as it will answer some of your 'how to test' questions.
Heya, Cash! Great to hear from ya, and thanks for the fix-it suggestions. No worries about the email. ...and I just sent you a PM about the above statement...and some life updates.
Take care,
Ryan
Quoted from cal50:NEVER use anything abrasive to clean gold plated contacts , just a business card or similar.
So, you're saying if I run a business card through the contacts, that should clean them? How many times? How much pressure?
Thanks, again, for chiming in, cal50!
Sincerely,
Ryan
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider RyanClaytor.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-whirlwind-upper-flipper-weak?tu=RyanClaytor and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Holt, MI